This board, and csnbbs in general, is very G5-friendly. Almost everyone is familiar with the G5 leagues and the schools in them. I don't ever have to spell out to anyone the achievements of G5 teams, much less who is in the Sun Belt, C-USA, MW, MAC, or the AAC.
But outside of this board and fellow App State alumni, I'm still kind of amazed the lack of knowledge the average joe P5 school fan has of any schools outside of the big name schools.
A certain relative of mine is an avid NC State supporter. Season tickets to football, partial season tickets to basketball, ACC rah rah fan, etc. Pretty knowledgeable about everything State and ACC, and knows a fair amount about other P5 schools, too. But I mentioned something last week about the Mountain West. She said, "I've never heard of that conference." Same thing a few months prior about the AAC, even though ECU, a frequent opponent of NCSU, is in that league just two hours from campus. She only knows about App State and the Sun Belt because I talk about them so much, and was clueless about Coastal's season without my talking about it.
Does anyone else experience this lack of awareness about the G5? I have a feeling this relative us representative of a lot of fans of P5 schools.
I come from a dyed-in-the-wool Big Ten family, deep in the heart of the midwest, but some of them have been fans of my alma mater's G5 teams for years!
i wouldn’t worry too much if at all, the G5 popularity is increasing every year and gaining momentum because G5 teams are beating A5 teams much more consistently and fans are taking notice
(01-01-2021 10:20 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: [ -> ]This board, and csnbbs in general, is very G5-friendly. Almost everyone is familiar with the G5 leagues and the schools in them. I don't ever have to spell out to anyone the achievements of G5 teams, much less who is in the Sun Belt, C-USA, MW, MAC, or the AAC.
But outside of this board and fellow App State alumni, I'm still kind of amazed the lack of knowledge the average joe P5 school fan has of any schools outside of the big name schools.
A certain relative of mine is an avid NC State supporter. Season tickets to football, partial season tickets to basketball, ACC rah rah fan, etc. Pretty knowledgeable about everything State and ACC, and knows a fair amount about other P5 schools, too. But I mentioned something last week about the Mountain West. She said, "I've never heard of that conference." Same thing a few months prior about the AAC, even though ECU, a frequent opponent of NCSU, is in that league just two hours from campus. She only knows about App State and the Sun Belt because I talk about them so much, and was clueless about Coastal's season without my talking about it.
Does anyone else experience this lack of awareness about the G5? I have a feeling this relative us representative of a lot of fans of P5 schools.
Excellent question, MinR.
As to the "average" fan of a P5 program (or programs) I talk to here in Nashville ...
... the awareness of, and respect for, the G5 is improving but not great. Most P5 fans I associate at work and in various social circles (or with whom I casually meet/chat with) can name at least five programs in both the American and the Mountain West. And they respect, overall, those two leagues. Most of these P5 fans consider both leagues "major" or "sufficiently major" (but not "power") in football, men's hoops and baseball.
The Sun Belt has gained respect quickly in football from my observations, but these same P5 fans probably would not know many of the programs. They do know the Belt plays strong football, with many teams capable of beating just about any team not named, for example, Alabama or Clemson. Many know Conference USA spans a good bit of the country and they know the MAC is a tight-knit group with lots of history. But that's about the extent of it for those three.
Similarly, many of these P5 fans I know/come across have a solid feel for the Big East and could name at least BE four or five programs. Most feel the BE is a "power" league. Some don't for very specific reasons related to how they define "power" for college football and large, comprehensive universities.
Lastly, many of these P5 fans I know/come across know Gonzaga has a fantastic men's hoops program but could not name the league affiliation (WCC). They've heard of Liberty but don't know it is an indy in football. Here in Nashville and due to geography, these folks know Dayton has a strong basketball program but likely would not know much (if anything) about the A10.
Temple is pretty prominent in Philly but so is Penn State. When it comes to football, most people are aware Temple is "minor league". In 2019 (I'm not counting 2020 for obvious reasons), the most attended Temple game had an attendance of 34,253 which for a city the size of Philadelphia is pretty pathetic. Penn State last played Temple in Philly in 2015 and predictably 69,176 showed up. They also had Notre Dame (and College Gameday) that same season and got 69,280 for that game.
I've discussed other AAC city schools before and other posters have responded. I'm sure Cincinnati, Houston, and Memphis have big fan bases in their respective cities but all three of them are in states where they definitely have an extremely popular state university as well (Ohio State, Texas, and Tennessee), just like in Philly Temple has Penn State. Appalachian State is clearly overshadowed in North Carolina by North Carolina and NC State and unfortunately for them they aren't in a big city. I'm sure they are the show in Boone but how big is Boone?
There isn't one state where the AAC dominates the fandom. That's a problem. The Mountain West dominates Nevada, New Mexico, Idaho, and Wyoming but none of them are very populous. In terms of cities, you can debate whether the University of Cincinnati really dominates the city of Cincinnati, the University of Houston really dominates the city of Houston, etc. I believe that Temple does have the largest number of college graduates in the Philadelphia area (Penn State is 2nd) but I'm pretty sure that Penn State is the bigger fanbase in football in the area. Someone posted some website about ticket sales or something like that and Penn State has more ticket sales in almost all of the surrounding Philadelphia counties.
Hmmm ....
Good question.
The 15-16 people that have participated in my College Fantasy League the past 21 years are very aware of the G5. The ultimate champion usually has found that G5 team that surprises and excels. Although it didn't work out this way this year. The guy who snagged Coastal had some other dogs in his stable of teams.
But ... in thinking about other friends, I would say that the awareness suffers. UNTIL ... the coaching carousel starts up. Then you'll see those P5 fans get real interested in the G5 teams, as they hunt for a coach to save them.
(01-01-2021 10:48 AM)schmolik Wrote: [ -> ]Temple is pretty prominent in Philly but so is Penn State. When it comes to football, most people are aware Temple is "minor league". In 2019 (I'm not counting 2020 for obvious reasons), the most attended Temple game had an attendance of 34,253 which for a city the size of Philadelphia is pretty pathetic. Penn State last played Temple in Philly in 2015 and predictably 69,176 showed up. They also had Notre Dame (and College Gameday) that same season and got 69,280 for that game.
I've discussed other AAC city schools before and other posters have responded. I'm sure Cincinnati, Houston, and Memphis have big fan bases in their respective cities but all three of them are in states where they definitely have an extremely popular state university as well (Ohio State, Texas, and Tennessee), just like in Philly Temple has Penn State. Appalachian State is clearly overshadowed in North Carolina by North Carolina and NC State and unfortunately for them they aren't in a big city. I'm sure they are the show in Boone but how big is Boone?
There isn't one state where the AAC dominates the fandom. That's a problem. The Mountain West dominates Nevada, New Mexico, Idaho, and Wyoming but none of them are very populous. In terms of cities, you can debate whether the University of Cincinnati really dominates the city of Cincinnati, the University of Houston really dominates the city of Houston, etc. I believe that Temple does have the largest number of college graduates in the Philadelphia area (Penn State is 2nd) but I'm pretty sure that Penn State is the bigger fanbase in football in the area. Someone posted some website about ticket sales or something like that and Penn State has more ticket sales in almost all of the surrounding Philadelphia counties.
On this theme ...
Memphis Tiger football and basketball is a rather big deal in Memphis — and in some respects more significant than University of Tennessee football and hoops — due to, in part, racial considerations. Shelby County has about 940,000 people, with a roughly 52 percent African-American population. Many Black Memphians have deep roots to the city and to, a lesser extent, the University of Memphis. In contrast, UT is located in Knoxville, which might as well be Mars compared to Memphis in terms of location and socio-political/cultural factors.
There is no question that Memphis Tiger sports hugely benefit from a large and dedicated African-American fan base.
Ohio is probably an exception rather than the rule but we have 7 G5 programs and 6 of them play in a conference together. Collectively, Cincinnati and the 6 MAC schools educate more Ohioans than Ohio St does and a lot of their alumni stay in state. There’s an awareness there but I think the fandom of those programs consists mostly of alumni and their families. Among a lot of the MAC grads their is a dual support for their alma mater and the Buckeyes.
The state also has a ton of D2 and D3 schools—most grads, except those who stay really close to campus, stop following their alma maters and revert back to bandwagon Buckeye fans upon graduation.
(01-01-2021 10:48 AM)schmolik Wrote: [ -> ]Temple is pretty prominent in Philly but so is Penn State....
....a.k.a.."State Penn"
From my perspective here in Central Texas most people are familiar with the regional G5s(TX, OK, AR, LA, NM) but probably couldnt tell you what schools are in which conferences and dont keep up with those schools sports on even a casual basis. I will say that in the last few years I have been hearing a lot of "oh hey I saw TXST on TV the other week!" from friends and family. Especially this year. Heard a lot about Jeremiah Haydels catch vs SMU this year. My favorite this year was "hey i happened to catch the TXST game vs (SMU, UTSA, BC, USA, Louisiana, or Georgia Southern) yall really shouldve won!".
Also lots of people asking about Coastal this year which means they made the Sun Belt connection
(01-01-2021 11:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]Ohio is probably an exception rather than the rule but we have 7 G5 programs and 6 of them play in a conference together. Collectively, Cincinnati and the 6 MAC schools educate more Ohioans than Ohio St does and a lot of their alumni stay in state. There’s an awareness there but I think the fandom of those programs consists mostly of alumni and their families. Among a lot of the MAC grads their is a dual support for their alma mater and the Buckeyes.
The state also has a ton of D2 and D3 schools—most grads, except those who stay really close to campus, stop following their alma maters and revert back to bandwagon Buckeye fans upon graduation.
The Browns, Bengals, Reds and Indians have been so bad over the years, Ohio State is the best professional team we have in this state. I say this in jest.. best there lies a lot of truth in it that it is extremely easy to root for a consistent winner in a sport in this state.
(01-01-2021 10:20 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone else experience this lack of awareness about the G5? I have a feeling this relative us representative of a lot of fans of P5 schools.
My wife is a worldly woman, she has lived most of her life in Washington DC, Chicago, and Tokyo.
I did a test along these lines with her a year or two ago when I was trying to get her in to college football, which she has no interest in. I asked her if she knew about or was aware of UCF in any way and she said "no"**. After explaining what "UCF" stands for, where it is, etc. she still drew a blank.
To test her knowledge of P5, I asked her if she had ever heard of Purdue. She instantly responded with "everyone has heard of Purdue" and gave me a look like I had asked her if she'd ever heard of McDonald's or Mercedes Benz. And that's Purdue, not Ohio State.
There is a big awareness gap out there among the masses.
** In fairness, she was completely unaware of USF, my school, when we met either.
I'd say quo's experience is more typical. My wife is a big UGA fan. And hasn't heard of some G5 schools and thinks many of the rest are the equivalent of Division II. She's familiar with a few playing football in FBS. But its mostly the AAC schools. Maybe in the west they are familiar with the MWC schools since they have a number of flagships that have been University division/I-A/FBS forever. But in the Southeast, they have barely heard of the Big 12 and Pac 12!
In the old days, before the internet, the Sunday morning papers wouldn't have the scores of schools west of the Mississippi. It would be Texas-SMU, late or USC-California, late.
(01-01-2021 12:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2021 10:20 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone else experience this lack of awareness about the G5? I have a feeling this relative us representative of a lot of fans of P5 schools.
My wife is a worldly woman, she has lived most of her life in Washington DC, Chicago, and Tokyo.
I did a test along these lines with her a year or two ago when I was trying to get her in to college football, which she has no interest in. I asked her if she knew about or was aware of UCF in any way and she said "no"**. After explaining what "UCF" stands for, where it is, etc. she still drew a blank.
To test her knowledge of P5, I asked her if she had ever heard of Purdue. She instantly responded with "everyone has heard of Purdue" and gave me a look like I had asked her if she'd ever heard of McDonald's or Mercedes Benz. And that's Purdue, not Ohio State.
There is a big awareness gap out there among the masses.
** In fairness, she was completely unaware of USF, my school, when we met either.
The Florida schools are new in terms of being major universities and have directional names which are unfortunate in terms of recognition. Purdue has been around since 1869 and has unique name. Perhaps if you asked about Cincinnati which has been around since 1819 and has unique name she would have said everyone knows about Cincinnati.
My personal interactions are with people in Mobile (Baldwin Co.) and Memphis areas. As Bill mentioned, due to the size of the Tiger fanbase, its affiliation with the AAC gets more coverage in Memphis than the SBC does in Mobile (season previews of each team and weekly recaps/previews). I listen to sports talk radio/podcasts from both and the difference is stark. It’s interesting to hear the same national media members address the different metros. Also, high school football gets a lot of coverage in Mobile, much more than in Memphis.
My personal interactions with G5 alums are mostly from USA with the next most from Troy. When discussing football, they will talk all day about Alabama and Auburn, not so much about anything else. It should be noted that 85%+ of my interactions are with moms and grandparents picking up/dropping off their children. I decorate a Fall into Football themed September preschool classroom including crafts, dressing up and a program (not surprisingly, most dads show up for this party-lol). Kids and parents/grandparents pick which teams they want to represent and it’s overwhelmingly UA/AU. When I first started, it surprised me. The new stadium at USA got some pub and as they get better, coverage should increase. Hopefully, the chatter and awareness/pride will follow. The Sunbelt did great in this year and has a chance to brand build off of that.
As far as Memphis interactions, sports fans would most likely be able to name some teams as they are mentioned in the media. But, you’re not going to walk into a Memphis area Kohl’s or Academy and find Tulsa gear.
In my opinion, it’s a tribute to the G5 fans that anyone shows up or watches the games at all. In an era where all anyone talks about is the CFP—-all 65 G5 schools are eliminated before the first snap. How long would Big crowds of P5 fans show up for their games if year after year they were on probation and eliminated from the CFP before the first snap of the year. I suspect it might subtract a pretty good chunk of their fandom after 30 years or so.....which is about how long the G5 has been officially eliminated from the national championship race since the start of various efforts to create a national championship game began in the 1990’s. Heck, the G5 were even officially eliminated from all major bowls until a decade or so ago when the BCS was expanded for occasional non-AQ “BCS buster” inclusion. So, it’s not really surprising that most fans are only vaguely aware of the G5. To them, it’s like wondering what league the Washington Generals (the foil for the Harlem Globtrotter games) plays in.
(01-01-2021 12:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2021 10:20 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone else experience this lack of awareness about the G5? I have a feeling this relative us representative of a lot of fans of P5 schools.
My wife is a worldly woman, she has lived most of her life in Washington DC, Chicago, and Tokyo.
I did a test along these lines with her a year or two ago when I was trying to get her in to college football, which she has no interest in. I asked her if she knew about or was aware of UCF in any way and she said "no"**. After explaining what "UCF" stands for, where it is, etc. she still drew a blank.
To test her knowledge of P5, I asked her if she had ever heard of Purdue. She instantly responded with "everyone has heard of Purdue" and gave me a look like I had asked her if she'd ever heard of McDonald's or Mercedes Benz. And that's Purdue, not Ohio State.
There is a big awareness gap out there among the masses.
** In fairness, she was completely unaware of USF, my school, when we met either.
What does your wife do during the season when you watch every college football game on your multiple tv’s? Has this improved her knowledge of teams?
(01-01-2021 12:29 PM)Attackcoog Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion, it’s a tribute to the G5 fans that anyone shows up or watches the games at all. In an era where all anyone talks about is the CFP—-all 65 G5 schools are eliminated before the first snap. How long would Big crowds of P5 fans show up for their games if year after year they were on probation and eliminated from the CFP before the first snap of the year. I suspect it might subtract a pretty good chunk of their fandom after 30 years or so.....which is about how long the G5 has been officially eliminated from the national championship race since the start of various efforts to create a national championship game began in the 1990’s.
It's longer than that. What we now regard as the G5 has never been relevant to the national championship in college football. You, personally, have a hard time with this because you think Houston's SWC membership was in the natural order of things. BYU's national championship in 1984 was regarded as a joke.
Quote:Heck, the G5 were even officially eliminated from all major bowls until a decade or so ago when the BCS was expanded for occasional non-AQ “BCS buster” inclusion.
They were eliminated before that, it just wasn't a written policy. If you weren't a member of a conference with a major bowl tie-in, or one of maybe a dozen major independents, you pretty much weren't in contention from the Mythical National Championship or a major bowl game.
From 1960, when the ACC put in an SAT requirement for athletes, until 1992 (formation of the Bowl Coalition, major independent powers start joining/forming conferences), the ACC champion goes to a major bowl twice, Clemson in 1967 and 1982. That's the same number of major bowl appearances that the service academies had--Navy in the 1964 Cotton Bowl and Air Force in the 1971 Sugar Bowl.
Quote:So, it’s not really surprising that most fans are only vaguely aware of the G5. To them, it’s like wondering what league the Washington Generals (the foil for the Harlem Globtrotter games) plays in.
By the same token, it's not seen as some big injustice that the Globetrotters and the Generals and the Phoenix Mercury don't have a shot at the NBA playoffs.
It depends. If you live in a place where G5 team is local, you have at least heard of some of them. Still, it's not like it's easy to find their stuff on the shelves of national chains in town.
(01-01-2021 02:06 PM)whittx Wrote: [ -> ]It depends. If you live in a place where G5 team is local, you have at least heard of some of them. Still, it's not like it's easy to find their stuff on the shelves of national chains in town.
Well in Houston, you have about an equal amount of Texas and Texas A&M stuff, but a good bit of Houston stuff as well. Some Rice, LSU and Baylor.
In Atlanta, you see Georgia, Georgia Tech and a bunch of the SEC schools, especially Alabama and Auburn. Not much Georgia State or Georgia Southern.