CSNbbs

I've read that JC could be a candidate for the Illinois job that is now open following the firing of Love Smith. Please let it be true!!

Too close to our recruiting. I don't think this is something to wish for.

The problem remains. His salary. I said it then and reiterate it now. It set a bar, a magic number. He came in with no head coaching experience. Na da. He got a million. The next person will demand the same. If AD this time makes any effort to fulfill a diversity mandate, I don't care you if hire a high school coach, optics forces the salary to one million, regardless that coach's experience or success at whatever level.

They need to reach high into a successful P5 program or the NFL. Or get Lovey Smith. The MAC is a great settling place for former P5 coaches who have the money in the bank and just want to settle someplace where they can compete until they retire.

Based on the speculation of others on the list of potential candidates I suspect that he would not be the favorite unless Illinois is going to try to get by on the cheap. I also agree that it's too close to signing date.

(12-13-2020 01:58 PM)eastisbest Wrote: [ -> ]Too close to our recruiting. I don't think this is something to wish for.

The problem remains. His salary. I said it then and reiterate it now. It set a bar, a magic number. He came in with no head coaching experience. Na da. He got a million. The next person will demand the same. If AD this time makes any effort to fulfill a diversity mandate, I don't care you if hire a high school coach, optics forces the salary to one million, regardless that coach's experience or success at whatever level.

They need to reach high into a successful P5 program or the NFL. Or get Lovey Smith. The MAC is a great settling place for former P5 coaches who have the money in the bank and just want to settle someplace where they can compete until they retire.

Ala Frank Solich - Nebraska/Ohio University...

I'd guess this is nothing more than rumors from an uninformed fan base. After the debacle that was the Beckman years at UI, I would guess the AD would be chased out of Champaign if they hired another coach from Toledo.

Anyway, right now I would expect Leipold and Lewis are the MAC coaches with highest chances to be poached, followed by Lester McElwain.

Any school looking for a head coach almost certainly falls into 1 of 2 situations:

They either fired their coach (or he resigned in lieu of) for a level of success that didn’t meet expectations, or they succeeded so well that their coach was poached away from them.

In the one case, they now want a coach to turn things around, & in the other they want a coach who can at least maintain the high level of success.

I don’t see how Candle—at this point in his career—can be realistically seen as fitting either need. He’s here for the next few seasons, which will dictate the following 3-5 years of his life after that, one way or another.

(12-13-2020 01:47 PM)nworocket Wrote: [ -> ]I've read that JC could be a candidate for the Illinois job that is now open following the firing of Love Smith. Please let it be true!!

After Beckman I don't think a Toledo HC would be at the top of their list. I would think CMU's HC being a former SEC HC might be more of a reality.

Candle's salary doesn't set the bar. It was a mistake. Pay half of that and post it in the job opening. The guy at Ball State has a base of $453K. There are tons of coaches who would want the Toledo job. O'Brien was just too lazy to look.

(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ]Candle's salary doesn't set the bar. It was a mistake. Pay half of that and post it in the job opening. The guy at Ball State has a base of $453K. There are tons of coaches who would want the Toledo job. O'Brien was just too lazy to look.

In any pragmatic world, I'm afraid it did set the bar. Yes it was a mistake as I said those years ago and for this very reason.

How many programs can you think paid a coach to come in and win, less than the one they let go because he lost? Let alone nearly half as you suggest?

And as I said, there's the issue of optics if you do find a minority candidate. Paying them half as you suggest, than the white guy you let go? Can't and won't and should not be done. Hence my suggestion, you reach high into a successful P5 or NFL program for a coach looking to take their first HC. Or an experienced looking to settle. The candidates have to make the salary market rate because UT cannot practically back far off that million unless they go with a nearly untested college level HC. We'd be dipping down to lower division or HS, someone like Coach Wilcher for that. Too much a risk for a program looking to fix the win column.

(12-13-2020 06:07 PM)eastisbest Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ]Candle's salary doesn't set the bar. It was a mistake. Pay half of that and post it in the job opening. The guy at Ball State has a base of $453K. There are tons of coaches who would want the Toledo job. O'Brien was just too lazy to look.

In any pragmatic world, I'm afraid it did set the bar. Yes it was a mistake as I said those years ago and for this very reason.

How many programs can you think paid a coach to come in and win, less than the one they let go because he lost? Let alone nearly half as you suggest?

And as I said, there's the issue of optics if you do find a minority candidate. Paying them half as you suggest, than the white guy you let go? Can't and won't and should not be done. Hence my suggestion, you reach high into a successful P5 or NFL program for a coach looking to take their first HC. Or an experienced looking to settle. The candidates have to make the salary market rate because UT cannot practically back far off that million unless they go with a nearly untested college level HC. We'd be dipping down to lower division or HS, someone like Coach Wilcher for that. Too much a risk for a program looking to fix the win column.

Buffalo hired a DIII coach. Didn't hurt them. You post the salary, then there is no question about someone being low-balled.

(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ]Candle's salary doesn't set the bar. It was a mistake. Pay half of that and post it in the job opening. The guy at Ball State has a base of $453K. There are tons of coaches who would want the Toledo job. O'Brien was just too lazy to look.

An outsider analysis of the Toledo job:

Best fan base in the MAC.
Media market all to themselves.
Great facilities, probably among if not the best.
Fabulous donor support, clearly the best.
Always leading in recruiting rankings.
Proven spring board for future career opportunities. (Saban, Pinkell, Campbell,etc)

Why you would pay a premium to an unproven guy like Candle baffles me. He did well with Campbell's guys, then the trend went south. He clearly is not very good and I doubt Illinois is seriously considering him although I think you guys are understandably rooting for him to get the job.

All dollars are not equal in the MAC, Toledo is a plum job yet Kent St got themselves a great coach at far less pay. You guys could do the same and suspect at a greater discount than most MAC programs.

(12-13-2020 06:49 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ]Candle's salary doesn't set the bar. It was a mistake. Pay half of that and post it in the job opening. The guy at Ball State has a base of $453K. There are tons of coaches who would want the Toledo job. O'Brien was just too lazy to look.

An outsider analysis of the Toledo job:

Best fan base in the MAC.
Media market all to themselves.
Great facilities, probably among if not the best.
Fabulous donor support, clearly the best.
Always leading in recruiting rankings.
Proven spring board for future career opportunities. (Saban, Pinkell, Campbell,etc)

Why you would pay a premium to an unproven guy like Candle baffles me. He did well with Campbell's guys, then the trend went south. He clearly is not very good and I doubt Illinois is seriously considering him although I think you guys are understandably rooting for him to get the job.

All dollars are not equal in the MAC, Toledo is a plum job yet Kent St got themselves a great coach at far less pay. You guys could do the same and suspect at a greater discount than most MAC programs.

Lewis has beaten one team with a winning record in two seasons. The wins have been against mediocre
to bad programs.The book is still out on him. His salary is close to a half mil.

(12-13-2020 06:20 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-13-2020 06:07 PM)eastisbest Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ]Candle's salary doesn't set the bar. It was a mistake. Pay half of that and post it in the job opening. The guy at Ball State has a base of $453K. There are tons of coaches who would want the Toledo job. O'Brien was just too lazy to look.

In any pragmatic world, I'm afraid it did set the bar. Yes it was a mistake as I said those years ago and for this very reason.

How many programs can you think paid a coach to come in and win, less than the one they let go because he lost? Let alone nearly half as you suggest?

And as I said, there's the issue of optics if you do find a minority candidate. Paying them half as you suggest, than the white guy you let go? Can't and won't and should not be done. Hence my suggestion, you reach high into a successful P5 or NFL program for a coach looking to take their first HC. Or an experienced looking to settle. The candidates have to make the salary market rate because UT cannot practically back far off that million unless they go with a nearly untested college level HC. We'd be dipping down to lower division or HS, someone like Coach Wilcher for that. Too much a risk for a program looking to fix the win column.

Buffalo hired a DIII coach. Didn't hurt them. You post the salary, then there is no question about someone being low-balled.

If it would actually work I would favor posting the salary although I don't know the realities of today's market. The risk is not determining the base salary accurately enough. Yes, there are plenty of coaches interested in stepping stone jobs and Toledo has more than proven to be a choice job in that regard.

I've coached for forty years with twenty-seven at the D-III college level and never seriously thought about moving on. One of the head coaches I assisted was paid peanuts while not only turning the program around but recruiting numbers that were mind-blowing. He applied for a job at UT thinking that he didn't have much of a chance but wound up being hired. He then went with Campbell to Iowa State. His financial and professional fortunes took a quantum leap in the space of three years and I'm ecstatic for him, he's one of the greatest people and coaches I can imagine.

I mention that because in the case of UT football I struggle to understand what the exact balance can/should be in the hiring process, especially where salary is concerned. I'd like to think that eastisbest is right and that a Lovie Smith type might show interest, if for no other reason than to spice up the pool of candidates but I just don't know.

I've thought through scenarios where my friend would look at a job like Toledo and just can't see it whether it would be HC or a coordinator although I've never come out and asked him. They likely couldn't pay him enough for the chronic headaches and a lot of guys aspire to the highest competitive level they can attain, the Big 12 is a pretty plum job.

In 2my opinion which of course doesn't mean anything I think Mcilwain is the most likely to move up since he has been an SEC head coach. Then Buffalo Coach. I think Jason Candle will be out Head Coach next year he will not end up at Illinois but could end up at Iowa State if Campbell moves on to Michigan. I thought PJ would be the next coach there but this season at Minnesota probably hurt him getting the UM job. If Candle goes I suspect Kehres or Kujo will be our next hear coach.

I’m more into basketball than football but, admittedly without the close-up view most of you have, my bet is that Candle bounces back and winds up at or very near the top next year.

Even if Campbell is the best guy for the job, I can imagine the Illinois faithful screaming because of the last debacle hire from Toledo. Guilty by association.

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(12-13-2020 09:44 PM)rocketpaul Wrote: [ -> ]In 2my opinion which of course doesn't mean anything I think Mcilwain is the most likely to move up since he has been an SEC head coach. Then Buffalo Coach. I think Jason Candle will be out Head Coach next year he will not end up at Illinois but could end up at Iowa State if Campbell moves on to Michigan. I thought PJ would be the next coach there but this season at Minnesota probably hurt him getting the UM job. If Candle goes I suspect Kehres or Kujo will be our next hear coach.

I think there are two MAC coaches ahead of Candle in line for those jobs if they'd even look this way. Liepold and Lewis both have better momentum at this point IMO and it isn't close.

(12-14-2020 10:01 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-13-2020 09:44 PM)rocketpaul Wrote: [ -> ]In 2my opinion which of course doesn't mean anything I think Mcilwain is the most likely to move up since he has been an SEC head coach. Then Buffalo Coach. I think Jason Candle will be out Head Coach next year he will not end up at Illinois but could end up at Iowa State if Campbell moves on to Michigan. I thought PJ would be the next coach there but this season at Minnesota probably hurt him getting the UM job. If Candle goes I suspect Kehres or Kujo will be our next hear coach.

I think there are two MAC coaches ahead of Candle in line for those jobs if they'd even look this way. Liepold and Lewis both have better momentum at this point IMO and it isn't close.

Those home wins over EMU, Akron, and the road win
over BGSU go a long way to offset the 29 point loss to Buffalo.

Candle only got $1 million after he won MAC, when hired in 2015 he was paid $675,000-its likely that number (or even lower) would be pay for new coach

(12-14-2020 11:02 AM)PaulJ Wrote: [ -> ]Candle only got $1 million after he won MAC, when hired in 2015 he was paid $675,000-its likely that number (or even lower) would be pay for new coach

McElwain and Lester make $800,000+
Loeffler $530,000. Lewis is the lowest paid MAC FB HC at $460,000. Candle's salary is #79 among FBS HC's.