(07-28-2021 05:47 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 05:16 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Just read the letter, signed solely by Bowlsby. He alleges in addition to the Tx/OU to the SEC matter, the network is now engaging in discussions with another school in the conference in an effort to get them to bail.
I'd bet a huge sum of money on it being WVU and ESPN trying to force them into the ACC, even if some of the member schools balk.
None of the other schools make sense for the ACC and the SEC certainly ain't throwing a life jacket to anybody else in the Big XII.
Yeah.
I'm listening to the WVU nightly radio show (online) and they are fairly snickering at this.
The kicker is that they are really teeing off on the Dodds story about the AAC being involved. I'd bet the AAC angle is nothing more and nothing less than some sort of assurance that, if "3-5 teams" get "left out," the AAC will be there to take them in and that, if that happens, the AAC will get a significant bump.
The AAC is going to be the scapegoat for this thing...and I'm betting that it all happens anyway. But we'll be the villains and get screwed...again...in the process.
(07-28-2021 05:53 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 05:47 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 05:16 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Just read the letter, signed solely by Bowlsby. He alleges in addition to the Tx/OU to the SEC matter, the network is now engaging in discussions with another school in the conference in an effort to get them to bail.
I'd bet a huge sum of money on it being WVU and ESPN trying to force them into the ACC, even if some of the member schools balk.
None of the other schools make sense for the ACC and the SEC certainly ain't throwing a life jacket to anybody else in the Big XII.
Yeah.
I'm listening to the WVU nightly radio show (online) and they are fairly snickering at this.
The kicker is that they are really teeing off on the Dodds story about the AAC being involved. I'd bet the AAC angle is nothing more and nothing less than some sort of assurance that, if "3-5 teams" get "left out," the AAC will be there to take them in and that, if that happens, the AAC will get a significant bump.
The AAC is going to be the scapegoat for this thing...and I'm betting that it all happens anyway. But we'll be the villains and get screwed...again...in the process.
Oh, stop Eeyore. We already got screwed when the Beast broke up and will continue to wander til this whole thing shakes out. I, for one am looking forward to being in the College Playoff this year.
This smacks of desperation. Conspiring? Good luck proving that. Know what? Texas and Oklahoma will be playing in the SEC in 2022. The B12 is imploding before our eyes.
If 3 teams got left out, the B12 would still exist. It takes 8 of the 10 to vote to dissolve.
Why in the world would any 3 of those teams leave half a billion (or well over three amount) in exit fees and NCAA credits on the table and just walk away?
(07-28-2021 05:53 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah.
I'm listening to the WVU nightly radio show (online) and they are fairly snickering at this.
The kicker is that they are really teeing off on the Dodds story about the AAC being involved. I'd bet the AAC angle is nothing more and nothing less than some sort of assurance that, if "3-5 teams" get "left out," the AAC will be there to take them in and that, if that happens, the AAC will get a significant bump.
The AAC is going to be the scapegoat for this thing...and I'm betting that it all happens anyway. But we'll be the villains and get screwed...again...in the process.
WVU is one of the few Big XII schools that isn't permanently screwed going forward like Kansas State and Oklahoma State. They could realistically end up in a 16-18+ team ACC. Who the hell knows what the magic number will be for the leagues and if conferences create alliances amongst themselves.
If I were the ACC, I split the conference into North and South divisions. Add UC/WVU. Hey, what do you know! It works out nicely and everybody is happy. No bias here!
Put this in your pipe gents and smoke it....
Quote:Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby alleges conference media rights partner ESPN conspired to damage the league by luring Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC as detailed in a cease and desist letter sent to the network on Wednesday. Bowlsby also tells CBS Sports that ESPN has active engaged the American Athletic Conference (AAC) to pursue "3-5" Big 12 members join the league, suggesting it would be rewarded with "future television proceeds".
The letter alleges ESPN "has taken certain actions that are intended to not only harm the Big 12 Conference but to result in financial benefits for ESPN". The network currently shares Big 12 rights with Fox.
Bowlsby told CBS Sports that ESPN's actions are equal to "tortuous interference".
"[There are] two documents that govern our members," Bowlsby told CBS Sports. "One is the bylaws, and the other is the grant of rights. The bylaws go for 99 years; the grant of rights go until 2024-25. ESPN has been behind these moves every step of the way."
He added: "I have every expectation that Oklahoma and Texas will do whatever they can to not meet their [contractual] obligations. That's what they've done so far. ... One of the ways the two schools and ESPN will seek to absolve themselves of the obligation is to destabilize the league and cause an implosion of the other eight members.
"I am absolutely certain ESPN employees have discussed and provided incentives for at least one conference to raid 3-5 members from the Big 12. In doing so, they are prepared to reward them with future television proceeds. If the conference goes away as an entity, Oklahoma and Texas could be relieved from their exit obligations. Those obligations at this time would include the payment of $70M to $80M -- two years full revenue -- per school and leaving their media rights with the Big 12.
"We're just not going to sit still and let somebody who is supposed to be our partner collaborate and disrupt our business. I know with certainty they are doing it relative to one conference. I suspect they have done the same thing in moving Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC."
With its flagship brands in Texas and Oklahoma departing the conference, the Big 12 is at a crossroads. The letter to ESPN is just the first sign that the conference is gearing up for a legal fight.
"The Big 12 Conference demands that ESPN immediately cease and desist all actions that may harm the conference and its members and that it not communicate with the Big 12 Conference's existing members or any NCAA conference regarding the Big 12 conference's members, possible conference realignment or potential financial incentive or outcomes related to possible conference realignment," the letter reads.
ESPN publicly responded: "The claims in the letter have no merit."
Both OU and Texas have indicated, though legally required, that they are willing to wait until their grant of rights with the Big 12 expires in 2025 to avoid paying hefty exit fees. However, the schools noted in a joint statement Monday that both "will continue to monitor the rapidly evolving collegiate athletics landscape as they consider how best to position their athletics programs for the future."
CBS
(07-28-2021 02:06 PM)colohank Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 11:38 AM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ]Bill Shakespeare said "What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
But I think it stupidly may matter. What if years ago UC had changed it's name?
Let us see:
Ohio Polytechnic University OPU
Ohio Institute of Technology OIT
Ohio Technology University OTU
I keep hearing some conferences object to associating with a "City School".
Would OPU or OIT be easier to sell as the #2 Ohio School (which by almost any measure we are)?
Sell to whom?
Let's exclude the PAC, not because it has a directional (USC), a city-named (UCLA) school, and a school (Stanford) named after a dead white guy, but because it's on the other end of the country. No chance UC would ever consider or be considered by the PAC for that reason alone.
The B1G doesn't have an city-named school, but it does have a directional one (Northwestern). And it has Purdue and Rutgers, each of which was named after a dead white guy. Lots of appeal in those names.
The B12 doesn't have any directional or city-named schools, but it does have Baylor, which I believe may have been named after a rapist whose offenses were swept under the rug.
The SEC has Auburn. Auburn began life in 1856 as a directional school -- the East Alabama Male College. Then it morphed into the Agricultural and Mechanical School of Alabama. Pretty catchy, eh? And then, for reasons nobody can explain, it was renamed Auburn in 1960. Was Auburn named after Auburn, AL, or vice versa? Does it even matter? And then there's Vanderbilt, a private school named after another dead white guy, albeit a rich one.
And finally, there's the ACC, whose membership includes (in alphabetical order) Boston College, Louisville, Miami, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse. Let me hazard a guess that the ACC wouldn't discriminate against a school with a city name. Then there's Duke, named after a family who made its fortune poisoning generations of Americans with tobacco products. Wake Forest is another ACC school named after its original location in Wake Forest, a municipality north of Raleigh. The school later relocated to Winston-Salem. And finally, Clemson was named after a former slave-owner who inherited his wealth from his wife.
Sure, there are folks who might discriminate against UC because it's named after (drum-roll) a city that was named in honor of the Society of the Cincinnati, whose original membership comprised citizen-soldiers who fought in the Revolutionary War. The society remains extant today.
What is your obsession with race? Why not just say "some rich guy"?
(07-28-2021 04:26 PM)OKIcat Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 03:44 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 02:57 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe the ACC is the only conference that prefers city-named schools. They skipped right over Kentucky State, North Carolina A&T, South Carolina State, and Virginia State to add city-named schools like Miami, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Louisville.
Go over to some ACC boards or to their individual team boards and you'll see the old guard ACC schools like lament the the additions of BC, Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville. If they had their way there would be no schools north of Charlottesville. Of course, their objections to those schools are more to do with crummy football and being outside the south.
Without question, the realignment actions of the past decade or so suggest that conferences have collectively lost their way. Geographic proximity and institutional commonalities were sacrificed for near term financial gains.
One has to wonder if the latest is actually the beginning to the end of conferences. Some have suggested the best x number of programs--pick it, 60 or 90, become an alliance only and scheduling occurs on a regional basis to restore some sense of rivalries and traditions.
For UC, I remain convinced there is a fair chance that the TX/OK move does not result in further movement at the present time. Maybe I've just become accustomed to negative outcomes, post Big-East.
I think there will be additional moves, but I don't know if they'll accrue to the benefit of UC. Our history tells us that, if they are beneficial, they're also likely to be only temporary.
Hopes for a safe haven in a merger between the AAC and B12 remnants or even a step up the ladder via an invitation to the ACC are illusory. Some of the more valuable remnants of the B12 will find lifeboats, and later, the more valuable members of the ACC will be poached by the SEC and B1G. Either way, only the dregs will be left behind.
The question is, regardless of whether we stay or move, and even if we keep winning, will we be perceived as being more valuable or as a dreg?
Any chance if the Big12 implodes the American takes their place as a P5 conference (even in the short term before ESPN blows it up further, heh)?
I'd go for that.
(07-28-2021 06:28 PM)horsefeathers Wrote: [ -> ]Any chance if the Big12 implodes the American takes their place as a P5 conference (even in the short term before ESPN blows it up further, heh)?
I'd go for that.
I mean...thats literally what that letter/story implies. It makes sense for ESPN, they pay us $15MM-20MM/year as a 16 team conference and kill the Big 12 instead of paying us $7M and the Big 12 $35MM.
The more this goes on and the more clear it becomes that most of these teams are no more valuable than the AAC teams...I wonder if Kansas would ever pull a UConn...
(07-28-2021 06:42 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 06:28 PM)horsefeathers Wrote: [ -> ]Any chance if the Big12 implodes the American takes their place as a P5 conference (even in the short term before ESPN blows it up further, heh)?
I'd go for that.
I mean...thats literally what that letter/story implies. It makes sense for ESPN, they pay us $15MM-20MM/year as a 16 team conference and kill the Big 12 instead of paying us $7M and the Big 12 $35MM.
But who actually decided if the AAC becomes a power conference / gets the auto bid? The NCAA?
(07-28-2021 07:01 PM)horsefeathers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 06:42 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 06:28 PM)horsefeathers Wrote: [ -> ]Any chance if the Big12 implodes the American takes their place as a P5 conference (even in the short term before ESPN blows it up further, heh)?
I'd go for that.
I mean...thats literally what that letter/story implies. It makes sense for ESPN, they pay us $15MM-20MM/year as a 16 team conference and kill the Big 12 instead of paying us $7M and the Big 12 $35MM.
But who actually decided if the AAC becomes a power conference / gets the auto bid? The NCAA?
"Power" is perception more than anything. As of right now, the NCAA has stated that the Big 12 would retain it's autonomous status even with Texas and Oklahoma leaving, so I would assume that means a combination of the best of both the AAC and Big 12 would be an autonomous conference as well.
Mike Aresco has some cajones man
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(07-28-2021 07:08 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 07:01 PM)horsefeathers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 06:42 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 06:28 PM)horsefeathers Wrote: [ -> ]Any chance if the Big12 implodes the American takes their place as a P5 conference (even in the short term before ESPN blows it up further, heh)?
I'd go for that.
I mean...thats literally what that letter/story implies. It makes sense for ESPN, they pay us $15MM-20MM/year as a 16 team conference and kill the Big 12 instead of paying us $7M and the Big 12 $35MM.
But who actually decided if the AAC becomes a power conference / gets the auto bid? The NCAA?
"Power" is perception more than anything. As of right now, the NCAA has stated that the Big 12 would retain it's autonomous status even with Texas and Oklahoma leaving, so I would assume that means a combination of the best of both the AAC and Big 12 would be an autonomous conference as well.
Perception sells tickets to the casual fan...who do you think would sell more tickets...Kansas or Tulsa?
(07-28-2021 07:34 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 07:08 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 07:01 PM)horsefeathers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 06:42 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2021 06:28 PM)horsefeathers Wrote: [ -> ]Any chance if the Big12 implodes the American takes their place as a P5 conference (even in the short term before ESPN blows it up further, heh)?
I'd go for that.
I mean...thats literally what that letter/story implies. It makes sense for ESPN, they pay us $15MM-20MM/year as a 16 team conference and kill the Big 12 instead of paying us $7M and the Big 12 $35MM.
But who actually decided if the AAC becomes a power conference / gets the auto bid? The NCAA?
"Power" is perception more than anything. As of right now, the NCAA has stated that the Big 12 would retain it's autonomous status even with Texas and Oklahoma leaving, so I would assume that means a combination of the best of both the AAC and Big 12 would be an autonomous conference as well.
Perception sells tickets to the casual fan...who do you think would sell more tickets...Kansas or Tulsa?
Thats why I didn't say we would be "Power" just that we would likely gain autonomy.
Can we please appreciate how awesome of a move it is that the AAC commissioner conspired with ESPN to destroy a P5???
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This is a very old cbssports article with the AD of isu. Proved extremely precient:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-oklahoma/
Quote:Big 12 AD says league would be akin to Mountain West without Texas, Oklahoma
Iowa State athletic director Jamie Pollard pulled no punches in an interview on iHeart Radio
Chip Patterson
By Chip Patterson
Oct 18, 2016 at 7:17 pm ET
The Big 12 isn't expanding. It might become wealthier for it, but Monday's news that expansion is off the table put an end to the strangest public courtship in college athletics.
Up to 18 schools were named as reported candidates for expansion consideration. State officials weighed in and schools spent good time and money preparing presentation materials to explain why their institution was the right choice for the Big 12. Now the league's left with some potentially reworked television deals and a lot of broken hearts in Cincinnati, Houston and Provo, Utah.
Iowa State athletic director Jamie Pollard laid out his view of the Big 12's decision in an interview on iHeartRadio. In his opinion, if the strongest teams -- Texas and Oklahoma -- left the conference, the Big 12 would be left getting payouts that are more comparable to the Mountain West.
"At 10 [members] we give ourselves a lot more flexibility down the road versus adding maybe members that would only clutter up the process," Pollard said. "People say, 'In eight years, Texas and Oklahoma are going to bolt.' Well, if we added teams and forced it on them, I guarantee they'd bolt. So that's a part of this process that people aren't thinking about.
"The Big 12 exists because we have Texas and Oklahoma in the room. If we take Texas and Oklahoma out of the room, we're the Mountain West Conference, and we're getting $3 million [per year in TV revenue]."
Pollard also suggested that Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby was "kind of forced into having to go through this process." He also pointed to Rutgers and Boston College as cautionary tales -- "in Boston College's case, haven't won a game in two to three years in their conference" -- for taking on new members that would "dilute" the league's value.
