CSNbbs

I wanted to do this so we could look at whether or not an offense is being run. While some feel we do not, my main view is that we are and that what is being run does not fit the some or all of the players. In other words Penny's "issue" to me isn't running offense, but either finding who can run what he wants or run sets that best fit who he has. Possibly some of both.

This discussion is based on the WKU game since I found a full video for that one. So a few things.

1. I'm not a coach. Years ago I became a "X&O enthusiast". I liked to learn about these things. After a very long break I had to try to learn and relearn some things to get my knowledge sorta back up for this purpose.

2. I have provided timestamps and labels for the half court sets to make it easier for viewing. I can't say every label is accurate, but I tried my best to get as close as possible. I skipped fast breaks and some where there was an early shot.

3. With the labels first is the offense and in parentheses is the outcome.

4. Most of what is run is in a 4-out, 1-in setup with occasional 3-out, 2-in on some sets. Most of the plays from what I can tell are motion sets. The ones I labelled as Pick 'n Roll (PnR) might be considered motion from their perspective. In another thread I posted a video about the Celtics offense. In this game the Tigers only ran one thing I could recognize from the video. I have added an * to denote that one.

Quote:1st Half
1:22 Motion (DJ misses driving pullup)
4:04 3-man weave (Nolley drive and fouled)
5:30 Down screen from Cisse for LQ, Cisse cut to rim (bad lob from LQ, Cisse scores on offensive rebound)
7:35 Ball movement (Nolley makes corner 3)
8:58 Baseline Inbound into Motion(?) (no passing or movement, attempted screen, Ellis missed 3)
10:17 Baseline Inbound, staggered screen with two curls (Ellis misses 3)
11:20 Motion (Baugh misses drive in lane)
12:22 Motion (DJ misses short jumper, Dandridge offensive rebound and score)
15:58 Motion (Dandridge misses one-hand jumper, Baugh rebound, Boogie misses layup)
*17:50 Horns into screen away (Nolley scores and fouled) *edited*
19:25 High post iso (Nolley kickout to Lance, Lance misses 3)
20:22 3-man weave (broken up, Lester misses layup)
22:22 3-man weave to Pick 'n Roll (ALo kickout to Nolley, DJ misses 3)
23:29 Motion (24 second violation)
25:55 Motion (Nolley misses 3)
27:44 Motion (Nolley made 3)
28:23 Motion (Dandridge misses dunk)
28:53 PnR (Ellis pass to Baugh, Baugh made 3)
31:51 Clear out(?) (Baugh makes on drive)
33:51 Motion (Nolley makes jumper)
34:44 Motion (bad lob)
35:08 PnR (Baugh pass to Nolley, Nolley made 3)
37:00 Baseline inbound (Nolley cut, misses jumper)
37:35 Spread out running clock (DJ dunk)

2nd half
39:56 Cut (bad lob, offensive rebound, TO)
41:55 Motion (Cisse blocked)
43:35 Motion (Foul)
44:44 Baseline Inbound into Motion (Alo misses jumper)
45:45 Motion (Foul)
46:59 Motion (Baugh misses short jumper)
48:43 Motion (Baugh misses jumper)
50:27 Motion (Nolley makes jumper)
52:08 Motion (Ellis makes layup and fouled, almost didn't include this one)
53:16 Clear out (Ellis misses jumper)
55:08 Talking about Penny cut off part of this play (Alo scores on drive)
59:19 Clear out (DJ blocked)
1:04:00 Down screen from Cisse for Nolley, Cisse cut to rim (Nolley pass, Cisse scores on dunk)
1:05:04 Motion (DJ offensive foul)
1:07:47 Horns (DJ makes layup)
1:08:37 Horns (Boogie makes 3)
1:10:53 At first Cisse goes to down screen but seems to have it called off by asst. coach, goes to set screen for Alo (Alo drives, misses turnaround pullup jumper)
1:12:00 Motion (Nolley missed layup)
1:14:54 Motion (TO)
1:16:40 Off-ball screen (Ellis makes 3)
1:18:30 Down screen Dandridge for DJ, Dandridge cuts to basket (Dandridge misses layup)
1:19:36 High screen (Ellis fouled)
1:21:24 Motion (DJ misses jumper)
1:23:53 Looks like they didn't know what they supposed to run (Ellis blocked)
1:24:20 Baseline Inbound into Motion (Nolley makes 3)
1:28:02 Off-Ball screen (Nolley misses 3, LQ offensive rebound, fouled)

My Takes

1. When we are going to run motion, our guys have got to be better at moving without the ball. I am sure they have some freedom with decision making and they do not exercise it properly.

2. There were times where the person driving with the ball in the motion sets likely would have been better off as a cutter looking for the ball. DJ is a prime example. Still he needs to get better at finishing shots through contact.

3. The bigs need to touch the ball way more and be allowed to facilitate instead of just screens. We already know Dandridge is a good passer. And in the second half Cisse made a great pass to DJ who was in the low post (1:07:47 - Horns). This is possible by running fewer motion sets since they showed they do not always run motion sets.

4. Get consistent with lobs. They threw too many bad lobs. Not because the opportunity wasn't there, they were just always too high.

5. Get consistent at finishing shots.

6. Be aggressive, but don't rush.


I'm sure there are some others I'm not thinking of right now. Things look rigid and inefficient to me right now, but I think Penny can fix them. My other issue was that he was determined to keep doing things a certain way. I wonder after listening to the VCU press conference is he is ready to adjust and if so what will these adjustments be.

So what is your take on these things?

(11-30-2020 06:33 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I wanted to do this so we could look at whether or not an offense is being run. While some feel we do not, my main view is that we are and that what is being run does not fit the some or all of the players. In other words Penny's "issue" to me isn't running offense, but either finding who can run what he wants or run sets that best fit who he has. Possibly some of both.

This discussion is based on the WKU game since I found a full video for that one. So a few things.

1. I'm not a coach. Years ago I became a "X/O enthusiast". I liked to learn about these things. After a very long break I had to try to learn and relearn some things to get my knowledge sorta back up for this purpose.

2. I have provided timestamps and labels for the half court sets to make it easier for viewing. I can't say every label is accurate, but I tried my best to get as close as possible. I skipped fast breaks and some where there was an early shot.

3. With the labels first is the offense and in parentheses is the outcome.

4. Most of what is run is in a 4-out, 1-in setup with occasional 3-out, 2-in on some sets. Most of the plays from what I can tell are motion sets. The ones I labelled as Pick 'n Roll (PnR) might be considered motion from their perspective. In another thread I posted a video about the Celtics offense. In this game the Tigers only ran one thing I could recognize from the video. I have added an * to denote that one.

Quote:1st Half
1:22 Motion (DJ misses driving pullup)
4:04 3-man weave (Nolley drive and fouled)
5:30 Down screen from Cisse for LQ, Cisse cut to rim (bad lob from LQ, Cisse scores on offensive rebound)
7:35 Ball movement (Nolley makes corner 3)
8:58 Baseline Inbound into Motion(?) (no passing or movement, attempted screen, Ellis missed 3)
10:17 Baseline Inbound, staggered screen with two curls (Ellis misses 3)
11:20 Motion (Baugh misses drive in lane)
12:22 Motion (DJ misses short jumper, Dandridge offensive rebound and score)
15:58 Motion (Dandridge misses one-hand jumper, Baugh rebound, Boogie misses layup)
*17:50 Screen away (Nolley scores and fouled)
19:25 High post iso (Nolley kickout to Lance, Lance misses 3)
20:22 3-man weave (broken up, Lester misses layup)
22:22 3-man weave to Pick 'n Roll (ALo kickout to Nolley, DJ misses 3)
23:29 Motion (24 second violation)
25:55 Motion (Nolley misses 3)
27:44 Motion (Nolley made 3)
28:23 Motion (Dandridge misses dunk)
28:53 PnR (Ellis pass to Baugh, Baugh made 3)
31:51 Clear out(?) (Baugh makes on drive)
33:51 Motion (Nolley makes jumper)
34:44 Motion (bad lob)
35:08 PnR (Baugh pass to Nolley, Nolley made 3)
37:00 Baseline inbound (Nolley cut, misses jumper)
37:35 Spread out running clock (DJ dunk)

2nd half
39:56 Cut (bad lob, offensive rebound, TO)
41:55 Motion (Cisse blocked)
43:35 Motion (Foul)
44:44 Baseline Inbound into Motion (Alo misses jumper)
45:45 Motion (Foul)
46:59 Motion (Baugh misses short jumper)
48:43 Motion (Baugh misses jumper)
50:27 Motion (Nolley makes jumper)
52:08 Motion (Ellis makes layup and fouled, almost didn't include this one)
53:16 Clear out (Ellis misses jumper)
55:08 Talking about Penny cut off part of this play (Alo scores on drive)
59:19 Clear out (DJ blocked)
1:04:00 Down screen from Cisse for Nolley, Cisse cut to rim (Nolley pass, Cisse scores on dunk)
1:05:04 Motion (DJ offensive foul)
1:07:47 Horns (DJ makes layup)
1:08:37 Horns (Boogie makes 3)
1:10:53 At first Cisse goes to down screen but seems to have it called off by asst. coach, goes to set screen for Alo (Alo drives, misses turnaround pullup jumper)
1:12:00 Motion (Nolley missed layup)
1:14:54 Motion (TO)
1:16:40 Off-ball screen (Ellis makes 3)
1:18:30 Down screen Dandridge for DJ, Dandridge cuts to basket (Dandridge misses layup)
1:19:36 High screen (Ellis fouled)
1:21:24 Motion (DJ misses jumper)
1:23:53 Looks like they didn't know what they supposed to run (Ellis blocked)
1:24:20 Baseline Inbound into Motion (Nolley makes 3)
1:28:02 Off-Ball screen (Nolley misses 3, LQ offensive rebound, fouled)

My Takes

1. When we are going to run motion, our guys have got to be better at moving without the ball. I am sure they have some freedom with decision making and they do not exercise it properly.

2. There were times where the person driving with the ball in the motion sets likely would have been better off as a cutter looking for the ball. DJ is a prime example. Still he needs to get better at finishing shots through contact.

3. The bigs need to touch the ball way more and be allowed to facilitate instead of just screens. We already know Dandridge is a good passer. And in the second half Cisse made a great pass to DJ who was in the low post (1:07:47 - Horns). This is possible by running fewer motion sets since they showed they do not always run motion sets.

4. Get consistent with lobs. They threw too many bad lobs. Not because the opportunity wasn't there, they were just always too high.

5. Get consistent at finishing shots.

6. Be aggressive, but don't rush.


I'm sure there are some others I'm not thinking of right now. Things look rigid and inefficient to me right now, but I think Penny can fix them. My other issue was that he was determined to keep doing things a certain way. I wonder after listening to the VCU press conference is he is ready to adjust and if so what will these adjustments be.

So what is your take on these things?

I don't agree with all of it...But man great job.

Excellent analysis.

(11-30-2020 06:33 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I wanted to do this so we could look at whether or not an offense is being run. While some feel we do not, my main view is that we are and that what is being run does not fit the some or all of the players. In other words Penny's "issue" to me isn't running offense, but either finding who can run what he wants or run sets that best fit who he has. Possibly some of both.

This discussion is based on the WKU game since I found a full video for that one. So a few things.

1. I'm not a coach. Years ago I became a "X/O enthusiast". I liked to learn about these things. After a very long break I had to try to learn and relearn some things to get my knowledge sorta back up for this purpose.

2. I have provided timestamps and labels for the half court sets to make it easier for viewing. I can't say every label is accurate, but I tried my best to get as close as possible. I skipped fast breaks and some where there was an early shot.

3. With the labels first is the offense and in parentheses is the outcome.

4. Most of what is run is in a 4-out, 1-in setup with occasional 3-out, 2-in on some sets. Most of the plays from what I can tell are motion sets. The ones I labelled as Pick 'n Roll (PnR) might be considered motion from their perspective. In another thread I posted a video about the Celtics offense. In this game the Tigers only ran one thing I could recognize from the video. I have added an * to denote that one.

Quote:1st Half
1:22 Motion (DJ misses driving pullup)
4:04 3-man weave (Nolley drive and fouled)
5:30 Down screen from Cisse for LQ, Cisse cut to rim (bad lob from LQ, Cisse scores on offensive rebound)
7:35 Ball movement (Nolley makes corner 3)
8:58 Baseline Inbound into Motion(?) (no passing or movement, attempted screen, Ellis missed 3)
10:17 Baseline Inbound, staggered screen with two curls (Ellis misses 3)
11:20 Motion (Baugh misses drive in lane)
12:22 Motion (DJ misses short jumper, Dandridge offensive rebound and score)
15:58 Motion (Dandridge misses one-hand jumper, Baugh rebound, Boogie misses layup)
*17:50 Screen away (Nolley scores and fouled)
19:25 High post iso (Nolley kickout to Lance, Lance misses 3)
20:22 3-man weave (broken up, Lester misses layup)
22:22 3-man weave to Pick 'n Roll (ALo kickout to Nolley, DJ misses 3)
23:29 Motion (24 second violation)
25:55 Motion (Nolley misses 3)
27:44 Motion (Nolley made 3)
28:23 Motion (Dandridge misses dunk)
28:53 PnR (Ellis pass to Baugh, Baugh made 3)
31:51 Clear out(?) (Baugh makes on drive)
33:51 Motion (Nolley makes jumper)
34:44 Motion (bad lob)
35:08 PnR (Baugh pass to Nolley, Nolley made 3)
37:00 Baseline inbound (Nolley cut, misses jumper)
37:35 Spread out running clock (DJ dunk)

2nd half
39:56 Cut (bad lob, offensive rebound, TO)
41:55 Motion (Cisse blocked)
43:35 Motion (Foul)
44:44 Baseline Inbound into Motion (Alo misses jumper)
45:45 Motion (Foul)
46:59 Motion (Baugh misses short jumper)
48:43 Motion (Baugh misses jumper)
50:27 Motion (Nolley makes jumper)
52:08 Motion (Ellis makes layup and fouled, almost didn't include this one)
53:16 Clear out (Ellis misses jumper)
55:08 Talking about Penny cut off part of this play (Alo scores on drive)
59:19 Clear out (DJ blocked)
1:04:00 Down screen from Cisse for Nolley, Cisse cut to rim (Nolley pass, Cisse scores on dunk)
1:05:04 Motion (DJ offensive foul)
1:07:47 Horns (DJ makes layup)
1:08:37 Horns (Boogie makes 3)
1:10:53 At first Cisse goes to down screen but seems to have it called off by asst. coach, goes to set screen for Alo (Alo drives, misses turnaround pullup jumper)
1:12:00 Motion (Nolley missed layup)
1:14:54 Motion (TO)
1:16:40 Off-ball screen (Ellis makes 3)
1:18:30 Down screen Dandridge for DJ, Dandridge cuts to basket (Dandridge misses layup)
1:19:36 High screen (Ellis fouled)
1:21:24 Motion (DJ misses jumper)
1:23:53 Looks like they didn't know what they supposed to run (Ellis blocked)
1:24:20 Baseline Inbound into Motion (Nolley makes 3)
1:28:02 Off-Ball screen (Nolley misses 3, LQ offensive rebound, fouled)

My Takes

1. When we are going to run motion, our guys have got to be better at moving without the ball. I am sure they have some freedom with decision making and they do not exercise it properly.

2. There were times where the person driving with the ball in the motion sets likely would have been better off as a cutter looking for the ball. DJ is a prime example. Still he needs to get better at finishing shots through contact.

3. The bigs need to touch the ball way more and be allowed to facilitate instead of just screens. We already know Dandridge is a good passer. And in the second half Cisse made a great pass to DJ who was in the low post (1:07:47 - Horns). This is possible by running fewer motion sets since they showed they do not always run motion sets.

4. Get consistent with lobs. They threw too many bad lobs. Not because the opportunity wasn't there, they were just always too high.

5. Get consistent at finishing shots.

6. Be aggressive, but don't rush.


I'm sure there are some others I'm not thinking of right now. Things look rigid and inefficient to me right now, but I think Penny can fix them. My other issue was that he was determined to keep doing things a certain way. I wonder after listening to the VCU press conference is he is ready to adjust and if so what will these adjustments be.

So what is your take on these things?

Good stuff thanks

What a great job and we appreciate the time put in. I have no doubt we have some offensive sets, but either the guys don’t know them well enough (too complicated?) or they don’t believe in them. Too much hesitation and 1 on one play.

Well done

(11-30-2020 08:00 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote: [ -> ]What a great job and we appreciate the time put in. I have no doubt we have some offensive sets, but either the guys don’t know them well enough (too complicated?) or they don’t believe in them. Too much hesitation and 1 on one play.

Which is exactly why it's on Penny. He is not the coach we need him to be if they don't know what they're running or don't want to. This coming from a Penny supporter. They've had almost 2 years to learn them.

Good job looking at the details. Maybe you can join the staff for analytic purposes.

Holy mackerel! Interesting analysis, thank you. I hope the coaching staff puts in half the time it must have taken to do that.

(11-30-2020 09:37 PM)Rufus T. Firefly Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-30-2020 08:00 PM)tigerjamesc Wrote: [ -> ]What a great job and we appreciate the time put in. I have no doubt we have some offensive sets, but either the guys don’t know them well enough (too complicated?) or they don’t believe in them. Too much hesitation and 1 on one play.

Which is exactly why it's on Penny. He is not the coach we need him to be if they don't know what they're running or don't want to. This coming from a Penny supporter. They've had almost 2 years to learn them.

It's on Penny (ofcourse), however, it's mainly the choice to allow Alo to try and run a high-powered fast-paced offense with a "limited" general.....Alo can't finish at the basket; he can't hit open jumpers; he doesn't pass well enough; He doesn't run fast-breaks well; He doesn't throw lobs well (at this level anyway) and this is showing up VERY bad for Penny's system....Alo, is NOT a threat in any way shape or form....Good coaches can see this and this allows teams to load up and put pressure on the players other than Alo

(11-30-2020 06:33 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I wanted to do this so we could look at whether or not an offense is being run. While some feel we do not, my main view is that we are and that what is being run does not fit the some or all of the players. In other words Penny's "issue" to me isn't running offense, but either finding who can run what he wants or run sets that best fit who he has. Possibly some of both.

This discussion is based on the WKU game since I found a full video for that one. So a few things.

1. I'm not a coach. Years ago I became a "X/O enthusiast". I liked to learn about these things. After a very long break I had to try to learn and relearn some things to get my knowledge sorta back up for this purpose.

2. I have provided timestamps and labels for the half court sets to make it easier for viewing. I can't say every label is accurate, but I tried my best to get as close as possible. I skipped fast breaks and some where there was an early shot.

3. With the labels first is the offense and in parentheses is the outcome.

4. Most of what is run is in a 4-out, 1-in setup with occasional 3-out, 2-in on some sets. Most of the plays from what I can tell are motion sets. The ones I labelled as Pick 'n Roll (PnR) might be considered motion from their perspective. In another thread I posted a video about the Celtics offense. In this game the Tigers only ran one thing I could recognize from the video. I have added an * to denote that one.

Quote:1st Half
1:22 Motion (DJ misses driving pullup)
4:04 3-man weave (Nolley drive and fouled)
5:30 Down screen from Cisse for LQ, Cisse cut to rim (bad lob from LQ, Cisse scores on offensive rebound)
7:35 Ball movement (Nolley makes corner 3)
8:58 Baseline Inbound into Motion(?) (no passing or movement, attempted screen, Ellis missed 3)
10:17 Baseline Inbound, staggered screen with two curls (Ellis misses 3)
11:20 Motion (Baugh misses drive in lane)
12:22 Motion (DJ misses short jumper, Dandridge offensive rebound and score)
15:58 Motion (Dandridge misses one-hand jumper, Baugh rebound, Boogie misses layup)
*17:50 Screen away (Nolley scores and fouled)
19:25 High post iso (Nolley kickout to Lance, Lance misses 3)
20:22 3-man weave (broken up, Lester misses layup)
22:22 3-man weave to Pick 'n Roll (ALo kickout to Nolley, DJ misses 3)
23:29 Motion (24 second violation)
25:55 Motion (Nolley misses 3)
27:44 Motion (Nolley made 3)
28:23 Motion (Dandridge misses dunk)
28:53 PnR (Ellis pass to Baugh, Baugh made 3)
31:51 Clear out(?) (Baugh makes on drive)
33:51 Motion (Nolley makes jumper)
34:44 Motion (bad lob)
35:08 PnR (Baugh pass to Nolley, Nolley made 3)
37:00 Baseline inbound (Nolley cut, misses jumper)
37:35 Spread out running clock (DJ dunk)

2nd half
39:56 Cut (bad lob, offensive rebound, TO)
41:55 Motion (Cisse blocked)
43:35 Motion (Foul)
44:44 Baseline Inbound into Motion (Alo misses jumper)
45:45 Motion (Foul)
46:59 Motion (Baugh misses short jumper)
48:43 Motion (Baugh misses jumper)
50:27 Motion (Nolley makes jumper)
52:08 Motion (Ellis makes layup and fouled, almost didn't include this one)
53:16 Clear out (Ellis misses jumper)
55:08 Talking about Penny cut off part of this play (Alo scores on drive)
59:19 Clear out (DJ blocked)
1:04:00 Down screen from Cisse for Nolley, Cisse cut to rim (Nolley pass, Cisse scores on dunk)
1:05:04 Motion (DJ offensive foul)
1:07:47 Horns (DJ makes layup)
1:08:37 Horns (Boogie makes 3)
1:10:53 At first Cisse goes to down screen but seems to have it called off by asst. coach, goes to set screen for Alo (Alo drives, misses turnaround pullup jumper)
1:12:00 Motion (Nolley missed layup)
1:14:54 Motion (TO)
1:16:40 Off-ball screen (Ellis makes 3)
1:18:30 Down screen Dandridge for DJ, Dandridge cuts to basket (Dandridge misses layup)
1:19:36 High screen (Ellis fouled)
1:21:24 Motion (DJ misses jumper)
1:23:53 Looks like they didn't know what they supposed to run (Ellis blocked)
1:24:20 Baseline Inbound into Motion (Nolley makes 3)
1:28:02 Off-Ball screen (Nolley misses 3, LQ offensive rebound, fouled)

My Takes

1. When we are going to run motion, our guys have got to be better at moving without the ball. I am sure they have some freedom with decision making and they do not exercise it properly.

2. There were times where the person driving with the ball in the motion sets likely would have been better off as a cutter looking for the ball. DJ is a prime example. Still he needs to get better at finishing shots through contact.

3. The bigs need to touch the ball way more and be allowed to facilitate instead of just screens. We already know Dandridge is a good passer. And in the second half Cisse made a great pass to DJ who was in the low post (1:07:47 - Horns). This is possible by running fewer motion sets since they showed they do not always run motion sets.

4. Get consistent with lobs. They threw too many bad lobs. Not because the opportunity wasn't there, they were just always too high.

5. Get consistent at finishing shots.

6. Be aggressive, but don't rush.


I'm sure there are some others I'm not thinking of right now. Things look rigid and inefficient to me right now, but I think Penny can fix them. My other issue was that he was determined to keep doing things a certain way. I wonder after listening to the VCU press conference is he is ready to adjust and if so what will these adjustments be.

So what is your take on these things?

Great analysis. IMO, fix #1 and #3 and it goes a long way toward fixing most things.

Highly valuable analysis.

An excellent assessment. Very well done, Alanda.

I know very little about this, but here is what I see too much of so far and they involve basic fundamentals:

* minimal movement without the ball

* dribblers dribbling into defense

* excessive dribbling

* 3-point shooters either not following their shot or not getting back on D

The normal downside of having great players as coach is that they can't communicate things that they did well (that came easily to them) to others.

Penny was a great offensive player. It came naturally to him. At his too early peak in 1995-96, prior to injury, are there 10 players EVER who could do what he did on offense?

He had to work at defense. We know that that is what he was doing against the first Dream Team in 1992 where Larry Bird called him "Mr. Defense".

It is very possible that he is such a good defensive coach because he had to work at it and he is struggling to coach offense because, either he is so brilliant at it that his concepts are beyond people who can't play like he did, or it came so easily to him that he struggles to teach it.

Not enough off-ball movement; a lot of guards drifting 8 feet off the 3pt line just to get "open," which also creates a bad passing angle on a drive so they aren't REALLY open. There were several instances where the help D came late, but still no passing angles due to no movement. Some of the best movement was when they ran a Calipari-esque motion heavy offense.

(12-01-2020 01:02 PM)bill dazzle Wrote: [ -> ]An excellent assessment. Very well done, Alanda.

I know very little about this, but here is what I see too much of so far and they involve basic fundamentals:

* minimal movement without the ball

* dribblers dribbling into defense

* excessive dribbling

* 3-point shooters either not following their shot or not getting back on D

And even when they are moving, its not movement with "purpose". No full speed cuts at all, might as well be walk through speed

(12-01-2020 01:31 PM)tkgrrett Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2020 01:02 PM)bill dazzle Wrote: [ -> ]An excellent assessment. Very well done, Alanda.

I know very little about this, but here is what I see too much of so far and they involve basic fundamentals:

* minimal movement without the ball

* dribblers dribbling into defense

* excessive dribbling

* 3-point shooters either not following their shot or not getting back on D

And even when they are moving, its not movement with "purpose". No full speed cuts at all, might as well be walk through speed

True...But would you cut hard is you knew the guy wasn't going to pass it...

Enjoyed very much! Well done, sir!

I find myself saying a lot of the same things. People seem to be criticizing what we run, but I see issues with how we run every play. I'm hoping coaching helps as the season goes on.

Your breakdown shows a majority of our plays to be Motion offense. Good Motion involves cuts after the pass and screens to free non ball handlers (as well as a good flex offense that I think is incorporated some). Our guys were all studs in HS. None of them understand how to work without the ball. We need some glue guys. We need some people that will do the AA things that create space for scorers. This can be coached, but I think it's more of a recruiting issue. We need to bring in a few gritty, aggressive, fundamental guys.

Our team doesn't seem to have fire. Penny can spark their fire and I think he will. We almost certainly will improve how we run our O. Our defense is ahead of schedule. Hopefully it all comes together.

I think it's really generous calling some of this offense "motion." Yes, guys are not just standing in one place but if you go to a YMCA and put 5 random guys on a court who've played basketball they will all instinctively start moving around some and changing position. Nobody will just stand still until they get the ball. They will also occasionally set picks and try to cut without having a structured offense in place. Before I'd call something an offense I'd say there need to be at least 3 somewhat defined actions that are designed to generate a specific opening.

We do run a horns set occasionally. The weave is clearly a thing but without other off-ball stuff that's not an offense.

A pick and roll isn't an offense unless accompanied by some off ball action, like pick and roll or pick and pop the shooter + pick on weak side or some sort of confounding motion.

I didn't stress enough in my first post....

THIS IS A QUALITY POST. Great great great converstaion starter. Completed with great work to put together data.

(12-01-2020 01:42 PM)gusrob Wrote: [ -> ]Enjoyed very much! Well done, sir!

I find myself saying a lot of the same things. People seem to be criticizing what we run, but I see issues with how we run every play. I'm hoping coaching helps as the season goes on.

Your breakdown shows a majority of our plays to be Motion offense. Good Motion involves cuts after the pass and screens to free non ball handlers (as well as a good flex offense that I think is incorporated some). Our guys were all studs in HS. None of them understand how to work without the ball. We need some glue guys. We need some people that will do the AA things that create space for scorers. This can be coached, but I think it's more of a recruiting issue. We need to bring in a few gritty, aggressive, fundamental guys.

Our team doesn't seem to have fire. Penny can spark their fire and I think he will. We almost certainly will improve how we run our O. Our defense is ahead of schedule. Hopefully it all comes together.

Penny doesn't have fire----standing on the sideline with your hands in your pocket is his M O