(02-25-2021 12:21 AM)JMUDunk Wrote: [ -> ]We are wrecking peoples livesand kids, over something that has infected fewer than 10% of our people, and 99% of the infected survive. Prove me wrong.
What a bizarrely cavalier description of over half a million people dying in the US and over 2.5 million people worldwide.
More Americans have died of COVID than from military war casualties from the Korean war, 1950, to present day combined. American deaths are fast approaching the entire population of Wyoming.
Your "prove me wrong" attitude is completely misplaced. The math is right. And 518 thousand Americans (and counting) have died as a result. Show a little respect your fallen countrymen and women.
More than twice as many Americans die every year than in all American war deaths throughout the entire nations’s history. American deaths are fast approaching 16 one hundreths of 1% of the population..
More than twice as many Americans live every year than die. More Americans quote unrelated stats in an attempt to obfuscate the point at hand than armadillo girdled lizards.
Says the guy who started quoting the unrelated stats...
BJK: I respect your point of view. You and I can play the stat came until we die. The eye test and common sense has to prevail with decision making. Lockdowns and immunizations haven’t decreased the severity of this disease. They have just spread them out over a longer period of time. Lockdowns don’t protect Senior citizens because the workers in their communities bring the disease to them.
You through out 500k deaths which is a lot but you didn’t drill down on that number like I did. The information is on the CDC website. It is clear and plain. Nothing to argue about. We are locking down our country to protect the over 65 population who are still dying with Covid-19 not necessarily because of it. Why not allow the retirement communities to continue to protect their population while letting the rest of the world to go back to life usual? Lockdowns are not saving lives in the long term. They are delaying the ability to get to herd immunity.
If the deaths were occurring in the 20-40 age group like the Spanish Flu then lockdowns would make sense.
For clarity, VA at least, has never been “locked down”. There have been some business restrictions & completely unenforced limits on size of gatherings. But I’ve never been stopped when out and told to return to my home. I can go anywhere I want to at any time of day or night.
(02-25-2021 10:54 AM)JMUNation Wrote: [ -> ]You through out 500k deaths which is a lot but you didn’t drill down on that number like I did. The information is on the CDC website. It is clear and plain. Nothing to argue about.
Okay, boomer. Tell me more about how much more you know about publicly available information than I do.
(02-24-2021 11:36 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote: [ -> ]30% but capped? Why would you cap it? What is the science behind capping it?
Why wait until march 1st? Is anything going to change appreciably in 3 days?
Yes.
30% cap is science, and the Rona knows that getting to 31-2% is reckless.
Sheer insanity. We are wrecking peoples livesand kids, over something that has infected fewer than 10% of our people, and 99% of the infected survive. Prove me wrong.
How long do we live in fear? I'm not wearing a face diaper for the next 30 years, and neither should anyone else here.
Closer to 98% just based on that data but both the number infected and the number of deaths are likely significantly undercounted. Wait until the excess deaths for 2020 are released, it was the deadliest year in a century. Plus about 10% or so that do survive are "longhaulers". There's good reason to be cautious. "Living in fear" is propaganda.
Isnt every year usually the deadliest year in history? I also think its worth noting we have had pretty mild flu years for the last two, which may have contributed to excess deaths this year.
COVID is very real, it caused significant excess deaths, particularly in the frail and over 65 community. This is not controversial. What is controversial is what we are alleging is helping the problem. Over testing asymptomatic people, locking down and closing schools have all been catastrophic public health failures because they do nothing to appreciably stop the spread of covid.
(02-25-2021 11:00 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]For clarity, VA at least, has never been “locked down”. There have been some business restrictions & completely unenforced limits on size of gatherings. But I’ve never been stopped when out and told to return to my home. I can go anywhere I want to at any time of day or night.
BUT HYPER WE GOTTA STOP THESE LOCKDOWNS. Just like Nation said, China went on lockdown and didn't let anyone out of their house to prevent the spread of COVID. And then we did the same thing, right? Remember when anyone in America was actively prevented from leaving their home? Do you remember?
(02-25-2021 10:07 AM)JMUNation Wrote: [ -> ]Any medical doctor will tell you that viruses don’t go away.
Smallpox and rinderpest were fully eradicated. Polio, measles, mumps and rubella all could be fully eradicated with ongoing efforts.
So yes, they can and do go away if we use the power we have as a society to make it so.
You obviously just like to argue if you want to compare smallpox to Covid.
Very, very different viruses. There is no history of a coronavirus being eradicated and every piece of information out there has stated that covid 19 will become an endemic disease that we will have to deal with. As the years go by its threat will become smaller and smaller as people build all different types of immunity (b cell, t cell) to it.
SARS and MERS were both eradicated. Both were coronaviruses. Just saying.
(02-24-2021 11:36 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote: [ -> ]30% but capped? Why would you cap it? What is the science behind capping it?
Why wait until march 1st? Is anything going to change appreciably in 3 days?
Yes.
30% cap is science, and the Rona knows that getting to 31-2% is reckless.
Sheer insanity. We are wrecking peoples livesand kids, over something that has infected fewer than 10% of our people, and 99% of the infected survive. Prove me wrong.
How long do we live in fear? I'm not wearing a face diaper for the next 30 years, and neither should anyone else here.
Closer to 98% just based on that data but both the number infected and the number of deaths are likely significantly undercounted. Wait until the excess deaths for 2020 are released, it was the deadliest year in a century. Plus about 10% or so that do survive are "longhaulers". There's good reason to be cautious. "Living in fear" is propaganda.
Isnt every year usually the deadliest year in history? I also think its worth noting we have had pretty mild flu years for the last two, which may have contributed to excess deaths this year.
COVID is very real, it caused significant excess deaths, particularly in the frail and over 65 community. This is not controversial. What is controversial is what we are alleging is helping the problem. Over testing asymptomatic people, locking down and closing schools have all been catastrophic public health failures because they do nothing to appreciably stop the spread of covid.
K-12 school scenarios for this academic year (20-21) are all locally-based decisions in VA. Some schools are 100% virtual. The vast majority employ some level of hybrid with a few days per week in-person. And a good number are just 100% open and in-person 5 days per week. Claiming schools are “closed” ignores the facts.
(02-24-2021 11:36 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote: [ -> ]30% but capped? Why would you cap it? What is the science behind capping it?
Why wait until march 1st? Is anything going to change appreciably in 3 days?
Yes.
30% cap is science, and the Rona knows that getting to 31-2% is reckless.
Sheer insanity. We are wrecking peoples livesand kids, over something that has infected fewer than 10% of our people, and 99% of the infected survive. Prove me wrong.
How long do we live in fear? I'm not wearing a face diaper for the next 30 years, and neither should anyone else here.
Closer to 98% just based on that data but both the number infected and the number of deaths are likely significantly undercounted. Wait until the excess deaths for 2020 are released, it was the deadliest year in a century. Plus about 10% or so that do survive are "longhaulers". There's good reason to be cautious. "Living in fear" is propaganda.
Isnt every year usually the deadliest year in history? I also think its worth noting we have had pretty mild flu years for the last two, which may have contributed to excess deaths this year.
COVID is very real, it caused significant excess deaths, particularly in the frail and over 65 community. This is not controversial. What is controversial is what we are alleging is helping the problem. Over testing asymptomatic people, locking down and closing schools have all been catastrophic public health failures because they do nothing to appreciably stop the spread of covid.
No. What's the flu have to do with excess deaths? What makes you think that those measures aren't slowing the spread if the virus? The spread in schools may be relatively low (though would you have been willing to bet on that last fall if you were an administrator) but the spread in bars is very high, thus "lockdown" measures such as cutting off alcohol sales at 10pm. You only have to look at Sweden and it's neighbors to tell if lockdowns have any appreciable effect. 12,800 deaths in Sweden, that's 1,262/M compared to it's closest neighbor Norway which has 600 deaths at 114/M.
(02-25-2021 10:07 AM)JMUNation Wrote: [ -> ]I have known Dunk for over 20 years and I can promise you he cares about the people who have passed by this virus. The number of deaths that have occurred have done so under lockdowns so you can’t attribute them to what Dunk is suggesting. The question all of us should be asking is do lockdowns lessen the number of deaths permanently or just delay them? Maybe they were the best course in the beginning but not now?
There is data available today that wasn’t available one year ago. The health science often changes over time as we learn what we once believed isn’t accurate even though it was supported with science at the time. For example, in the ‘60s we were told saturated fats were the culprit for heart diseases. In the ‘80s lowering cholesterol was all the rage. Don’t eat eggs for goodness sakes. Today we have evolved to learn that neither of these are necessarily true. The culprit of insulin resistance is ultra processed carbohydrates. Keto and Paleo diets are helping people lose weight and get healthy. Natural foods some high in saturated fat and cholesterol are actually better for you than the low fat, low calorie replacement foods sold to us to help not gain weight.
You can’t believe everything you read on the internet or hear in the news. Digging your heels in on a subject and not staying open to new data as it emerges is just as ignorant as not educating ourselves at all.
The data clearly shows that Coronavirus has overwhelmingly been tough on the over 80 population. People with underlying health issues whose health status was already fragile. Of the population below 80, the majority of those deaths were people who were insulin resistant. The amount of obesity in the US is a far worse pandemic than Corona virus. The outrage we feel as Americans should be directed toward our big corporate food manufacturers who sweeten every processed food to the point where we all have become addicted to its taste rather focus on its nutritional value. This is why losing weight is so hard.
Compare the death and hospitalization data of Florida and California. Cali has the toughest social distancing rules and Florida the most relaxed. Compare Sweden and Scotland. In both of these cases, the data suggests that lockdowns might flatten the curve in the short term but over the long term they actually have little impact on deaths. Go look at the work of Ivor Cummings of Dublin Ireland on this subject. He is a biochemist not a politician.
The world locked down because China did it first with success. There wasn’t a years worth of data at that time. Just a single observation point. The world followed China and locked down.
Any medical doctor will tell you that viruses don’t go away. They mutate. The immunizations occurring now are basically a flu shot. My own 85 year old mother was inoculated with her first shot and three days later became symptomatic. The shot didn’t give her Covid-19. It may have saved her life by lessening the severity of the virus. It also didn’t prevent Covid-19. Sounds a lot like a flu shot type of thing to me. My Stepmother, brother and niece all were symptomatic with Covid-19. None of them hospitalized but all experienced a bad virus.
As Virginia opens back up, cases will rise again but hopefully not too badly. With immunizations, antibodies present in those who have had it and warmer weather, things look favorable. My educated guess is next holiday season we will see another spike but let’s hope a much smaller one.
What I do see in the CDC data is very little impact from this disease in those under 50. The number is 20,000 deaths involving COVID-19. Key word is “involving” meaning it wasn’t the only factor. It is almost nonexistent under 30. Common sense tells me this is the population that should be allowed to freely move about and pass the virus amongst each other. This isn’t a reckless abandonment of consideration for our Seniors. It is done to protect them by building up the herd immunity in addition to immunizations. Lockdowns haven’t saved lives because the disease has found its way into nursing homes and retirement communities any way thus killing the population susceptible to it. Lockdowns haven’t protected them they simply have flattened the curve and spread out the cases over a longer period of time allowing our health professionals time to figure out what this virus does and who is most vulnerable. With this knowledge, leaders are better prepared to make educated decisions if they don’t dig their heels in or try to save face because maybe what the science originally said wasn’t 100% correct just like the science on cholesterol in eggs and saturated animal fats.
You do know that 3 days is not enough time to give protection for either the Covid vaccine or a flu shot right? It takes a couple of weeks. I'm glad you family came through ok though.
Also, increasing community spread amongst younger people puts the vulnerable in a more dangerous position. Health policy doesn't always follow "common sense" because it's too complex of an issue.
(02-24-2021 11:36 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote: [ -> ]30% but capped? Why would you cap it? What is the science behind capping it?
Why wait until march 1st? Is anything going to change appreciably in 3 days?
Yes.
30% cap is science, and the Rona knows that getting to 31-2% is reckless.
Sheer insanity. We are wrecking peoples livesand kids, over something that has infected fewer than 10% of our people, and 99% of the infected survive. Prove me wrong.
How long do we live in fear? I'm not wearing a face diaper for the next 30 years, and neither should anyone else here.
Closer to 98% just based on that data but both the number infected and the number of deaths are likely significantly undercounted. Wait until the excess deaths for 2020 are released, it was the deadliest year in a century. Plus about 10% or so that do survive are "longhaulers". There's good reason to be cautious. "Living in fear" is propaganda.
Isnt every year usually the deadliest year in history? I also think its worth noting we have had pretty mild flu years for the last two, which may have contributed to excess deaths this year.
COVID is very real, it caused significant excess deaths, particularly in the frail and over 65 community. This is not controversial. What is controversial is what we are alleging is helping the problem. Over testing asymptomatic people, locking down and closing schools have all been catastrophic public health failures because they do nothing to appreciably stop the spread of covid.
No. What's the flu have to do with excess deaths? What makes you think that those measures aren't slowing the spread if the virus? The spread in schools may be relatively low (though would you have been willing to bet on that last fall if you were an administrator) but the spread in bars is very high, thus "lockdown" measures such as cutting off alcohol sales at 10pm. You only have to look at Sweden and it's neighbors to tell if lockdowns have any appreciable effect. 12,800 deaths in Sweden, that's 1,262/M compared to it's closest neighbor Norway which has 600 deaths at 114/M.
When there are less deaths from contagious disease over a period of years, there is a group of people that would have likely passed if they had caught the disease in that period. They are considered to be the most vulnerable in a population. This is the dry tinder theory. It is just one of a multifactor explanation for high excess mortality in 2020. It is not the only explanation, but certainly is a factor.
(02-25-2021 11:45 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]Countdown to thread being locked due to “discussion fatigue”
It's close.
This thread is not about deliberating whether you believe in COVID 19 or not. Let's keep it to JMU sports and the impacts COVID19 is having, and less about Dunk's choice to ignore guidelines to reduce the spread of a highly infectious virus or other stats we can come up with to support or deny it.
(02-25-2021 11:45 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]Countdown to thread being locked due to “discussion fatigue”
It's close.
This thread is not about deliberating whether you believe in COVID 19 or not. Let's keep it to JMU sports and the impacts COVID19 is having, and less about Dunk's choice to ignore guidelines to reduce the spread of a highly infectious virus or other stats we can come up with to support or deny it.
Since it appears all JMU sports have returned, perhaps we should move this to off topic.
30% cap is science, and the Rona knows that getting to 31-2% is reckless.
Sheer insanity. We are wrecking peoples livesand kids, over something that has infected fewer than 10% of our people, and 99% of the infected survive. Prove me wrong.
How long do we live in fear? I'm not wearing a face diaper for the next 30 years, and neither should anyone else here.
Closer to 98% just based on that data but both the number infected and the number of deaths are likely significantly undercounted. Wait until the excess deaths for 2020 are released, it was the deadliest year in a century. Plus about 10% or so that do survive are "longhaulers". There's good reason to be cautious. "Living in fear" is propaganda.
Isnt every year usually the deadliest year in history? I also think its worth noting we have had pretty mild flu years for the last two, which may have contributed to excess deaths this year.
COVID is very real, it caused significant excess deaths, particularly in the frail and over 65 community. This is not controversial. What is controversial is what we are alleging is helping the problem. Over testing asymptomatic people, locking down and closing schools have all been catastrophic public health failures because they do nothing to appreciably stop the spread of covid.
No. What's the flu have to do with excess deaths? What makes you think that those measures aren't slowing the spread if the virus? The spread in schools may be relatively low (though would you have been willing to bet on that last fall if you were an administrator) but the spread in bars is very high, thus "lockdown" measures such as cutting off alcohol sales at 10pm. You only have to look at Sweden and it's neighbors to tell if lockdowns have any appreciable effect. 12,800 deaths in Sweden, that's 1,262/M compared to it's closest neighbor Norway which has 600 deaths at 114/M.
When there are less deaths from contagious disease over a period of years, there is a group of people that would have likely passed if they had caught the disease in that period. They are considered to be the most vulnerable in a population. This is the dry tinder theory. It is just one of a multifactor explanation for high excess mortality in 2020. It is not the only explanation, but certainly is a factor.
JMU sucks in all sports and in life!
There's some of those and we might see some corrections in the next 5-10 years since most are older. But it's clearly not the case that all these people were on their deathbed. Most were robbed of years not months. I'm out, congrats on your basketball season, nice turn around with Coach B!
