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Throwing this out there for some summer fun. Who are the best and worse?

Rank em.

Tom Arth (Akron Zips)
Mike Neu (Ball State Cardinals)
Scot Loeffler (Bowling Green Falcons)
Lance Leipold (Buffalo Bulls)
Jim McElwain (Central Michigan Chippewas)
Chris Creighton (Eastern Michigan Eagles)
Sean Lewis (Kent State Golden Flashes)
Chuck Martin (Miami RedHawks)
Thomas Hammock (Northern Illinois Huskies)
Frank Solich (Ohio Bobcats)
Jason Candle (Toledo Rockets)
Tim Lester (Western Michigan Broncos)
Solich, McElwain, Martin, Leipold, Candle, Creighton top half
(06-14-2020 01:14 PM)San Giuseppe Jato Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]Throwing this out there for some summer fun. Who are the best and worse?

Rank em.

Tom Arth (Akron Zips)
Mike Neu (Ball State Cardinals)
Scot Loeffler (Bowling Green Falcons)
Lance Leipold (Buffalo Bulls)
Jim McElwain (Central Michigan Chippewas)
Chris Creighton (Eastern Michigan Eagles)
Sean Lewis (Kent State Golden Flashes)
Chuck Martin (Miami RedHawks)
Thomas Hammock (Northern Illinois Huskies)
Frank Solich (Ohio Bobcats)
Jason Candle (Toledo Rockets)
Tim Lester (Western Michigan Broncos)
Lance Leopoldo is a hell of a coach. Frank Solich wins year in and year out.
I would probably go with Jim McElwain as the best.
I don't reckon he's in the top third yet, but Sean Lewis taking a Kent State playing three body bag games to a 5-3 MAC record, a bowl game and Kent's first bowl win will put him in the middle third if he can keep up the performance.
It depends on what you are looking for in a coach. McElwain is obviously the most effective in the near term. Lewis and Creighton, took a couple of perceived dead end jobs and made those programs relevant. Martin took a pay cut to go to Miami, and gradually improved the program to the MAC championship last year. Leopold has made Buffalo a solid program. All deserve kudos.

If I were a MAC AD, however, my dream hire would have been Frank Solich. Yeah I know he has not rung the MAC Champion's bell, but he has won the East four times. More importantly to me, he has been there for FIFTEEN years! His teams are nearly always in the top half of the league and he represents the MAC well in bowl games. Ohio has no worries about the guy leaving as Babers, Fleck, Campbell and others have, often leaving their programs reeling.

I'm an EMU fan, perhaps my expectations as a result are lower, but I really envy the job Frank has done in Athens.
(06-14-2020 04:54 PM)BruceMcF Wrote: [ -> ]I don't reckon he's in the top third yet, but Sean Lewis taking a Kent State playing three body bag games to a 5-3 MAC record, a bowl game and Kent's first bowl win will put him in the middle third if he can keep up the performance.
Great point, I see him in the Top 1/3 and moving on at his first chance as hell definitely be cashing in and nobody can blame him or be bitter when it happens.
1 McElwain
2 Solich
3 Creighton
4 Leipold
5 Lewis
6 Candle
7 Martin
8 Lester
9 Hammock
10 Loeffler
11 Neu
12 Arth
(06-14-2020 02:02 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ]Solich, McElwain, Martin, Leipold, Candle, Creighton top half

Hmm..14, did you know our own Tim Lester has a winning record (7-5) against that group?

Where does that put him?
(06-14-2020 06:08 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]1 McElwain
2 Solich
3 Creighton
4 Leipold
5 Lewis
6 Candle
7 Martin
8 Lester
9 Hammock
10 Loeffler
11 Neu
12 Arth

I forgot to mention Creighton. He has done a great job at EMU. I agree on your top 4

I like Hammock but he looked like he was in over his head last season. It seemed like NIU was banged up all year though.. so maybe he can turn it around this season. But right now he would be number 12 on my list.
I would put Crieghton at number one. Very, very few coaches could win at EMU and he's done it in the MAC and non-conference play.

Martin is such a mixed bag. The guy hasn't won a single FBS non-conference game in six years, can be a numbskull when it comes to game management beyond anything I've ever seen, and up until last year we also felt underachieving. Yet he's taken us from futility to respectability to a championship, and that speaks for itself.
(06-14-2020 05:51 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2020 04:54 PM)BruceMcF Wrote: [ -> ]I don't reckon he's in the top third yet, but Sean Lewis taking a Kent State playing three body bag games to a 5-3 MAC record, a bowl game and Kent's first bowl win will put him in the middle third if he can keep up the performance.

Great point, I see him in the Top 1/3 and moving on at his first chance as hell definitely be cashing in and nobody can blame him or be bitter when it happens.

A lot will depend on whether he will take any higher paying position or is only interested in a head coaching spot. With Kent State changing it's strategic funding priorities toward Basketball ... hence the three body bag games ... a handful of winning seasons against that headwind could well see one or more offers of Coordinator or Asst. Coordinator job at higher pay in a P5 ...
... but if we see a miracle season like 2012 complete with national ranking, then some struggling P5 schools is going to come knocking with a head coaching offer, and he'll be gone.

But one swallow does not make a summer. Being able to keep the team fighting when they needed to win out to go bowling speaks well of him, but how much of that was team chemistry and the character of the graduating seniors as team leaders is an open question. A winning season and another bowl win would start to solidify the view that it's his quality as a coach.

I'm still waiting for some struggling MAC school to hire a run-pitch option or Wing-T coach from FCS or Div2 and go for recruiting a different set of players than all of the MAC schools are aiming for. Those are systems where the MAC would be the dream job for a coach to settle in, and where there wouldn't be a lot of P5 schools sniffing around even if they experience some success. (But hopefully not Akron, those unfamiliar schemes are risky things to face when the Wagon Wheel is on the line and there's extra emotion in the game.)
(06-14-2020 06:44 PM)MajorHoople Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2020 02:02 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ]Solich, McElwain, Martin, Leipold, Candle, Creighton top half

Hmm..14, did you know our own Tim Lester has a winning record (7-5) against that group?

Where does that put him?

Below Candle at 1-3 against Toledo.
(06-14-2020 07:43 PM)No Bull Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2020 06:08 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]1 McElwain
2 Solich
3 Creighton
4 Leipold
5 Lewis
6 Candle
7 Martin
8 Lester
9 Hammock
10 Loeffler
11 Neu
12 Arth

I forgot to mention Creighton. He has done a great job at EMU. I agree on your top 4

I like Hammock but he looked like he was in over his head last season. It seemed like NIU was banged up all year though.. so maybe he can turn it around this season. But right now he would be number 12 on my list.

Like this list.

To me, C.C. is definitely top 3. Took a program which was in dire straights and turned it around.

He got the first P5 win (actually wins, three) in school history.

Runs a very clean program with good values and very good academics.

Would I like to have say a top SEC coach (even having to increase the campus and community police force by 50%), sure, but seriously 3 P5 wins and 3 exciting bowl games is good by me... (even if I had forgotten about EMU's FB past).

And a shout out to the CMU coach. Nothing beats success like success itself and he produced.
(06-15-2020 08:28 AM)BruceMcF Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2020 05:51 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2020 04:54 PM)BruceMcF Wrote: [ -> ]I don't reckon he's in the top third yet, but Sean Lewis taking a Kent State playing three body bag games to a 5-3 MAC record, a bowl game and Kent's first bowl win will put him in the middle third if he can keep up the performance.

Great point, I see him in the Top 1/3 and moving on at his first chance as hell definitely be cashing in and nobody can blame him or be bitter when it happens.

A lot will depend on whether he will take any higher paying position or is only interested in a head coaching spot. With Kent State changing it's strategic funding priorities toward Basketball ... hence the three body bag games ... a handful of winning seasons against that headwind could well see one or more offers of Coordinator or Asst. Coordinator job at higher pay in a P5 ...
... but if we see a miracle season like 2012 complete with national ranking, then some struggling P5 schools is going to come knocking with a head coaching offer, and he'll be gone.

But one swallow does not make a summer. Being able to keep the team fighting when they needed to win out to go bowling speaks well of him, but how much of that was team chemistry and the character of the graduating seniors as team leaders is an open question. A winning season and another bowl win would start to solidify the view that it's his quality as a coach.

I'm still waiting for some struggling MAC school to hire a run-pitch option or Wing-T coach from FCS or Div2 and go for recruiting a different set of players than all of the MAC schools are aiming for. Those are systems where the MAC would be the dream job for a coach to settle in, and where there wouldn't be a lot of P5 schools sniffing around even if they experience some success. (But hopefully not Akron, those unfamiliar schemes are risky things to face when the Wagon Wheel is on the line and there's extra emotion in the game.)

Now that is a spot on post! To be honest, why would Rutgers not employ the offense that the service academies' do? It will not win a National Championship but Rutgers will never do so otherwise and it would make them semi competitive in the Big Ten. Why not a MAC team as well?

You do not need athletic offensive linemen who contain speedy defensive ends, you can recruit on strength alone. Strong armed QB's are not needed, instead recruit hi-po athletes from high schools who may have been forced to change positions in college. Then, you force your opponent to prepare for an offense that they will not see again that season. EMU thankfully finishes its contract with Army this season and I could not be happier, the punishment from that game has been horrific.

Paul Johnson brought the wishbone to Georgia Tech from Army and while he never was nationally relevant, GA Tech was always competitive.
(06-15-2020 06:16 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote: [ -> ]Now that is a spot on post! To be honest, why would Rutgers not employ the offense that the service academies' do? It will not win a National Championship but Rutgers will never do so otherwise and it would make them semi competitive in the Big Ten. Why not a MAC team as well?

You do not need athletic offensive linemen who contain speedy defensive ends, you can recruit on strength alone. Strong armed QB's are not needed, instead recruit hi-po athletes from high schools who may have been forced to change positions in college. Then, you force your opponent to prepare for an offense that they will not see again that season. EMU thankfully finishes its contract with Army this season and I could not be happier, the punishment from that game has been horrific.

Yup, "take what is offered".

If there are an abundance of high school offensive linemen who are effective against the run but tagged as "too light" and "bad pass blocker" to play at the MAC level, there are systems that keep defensive linemen off balance and where the go-to passes are play action counters. And if they are abundant enough you can have a similar quality through your second string and into your third, you can platoon without conceding near as much as most MAC schools.

If everyone is recruiting for a run-pass option QB who can stretch the field, and there are accurate short pass ball handling QB's on offer, there are systems that can make full use of that.

Find the system that uses the skills and athletic abilities the competition is leaving to be recruited for FCS and Division 2, find the FCS or Division 2 coach that excels at using those skills and abilities, give them a three year contract with a two year option to give evidence they can make it work, and put together a program the students want to get out to watch to see what crazy stuff they are going to get up to.

Of course, there is no such thing as a free lunch. One thing the University would have to sign on for would be one P5 body bag guarantee, one FCS buy game and two Go5 OOC H/H contracts ... because for one thing there's only going to be so many P5 schools that are going to want to buy that game, and there's not enough opportunity to build a culture of going to see what crazy stuff the football team is going to get up to if there's only five home games a season, two of them on cold November weeknights.

So even if Lewis has a miracle season next year and is snapped up by some P5 cellar dweller looking for an improvement, Kent State with it's three body bag games a year to reduce the football subsidy isn't in line for that kind of approach.
Scot Loeffler is doing a great job in Bowling Green. I get why people aren't ranking him more highly -- he only has one season under his belt -- but he's doing a great job recruiting and he beat Toledo last year with talent that would struggle to win in FCS. I see a very high ceiling with this guy.
(06-14-2020 06:44 PM)MajorHoople Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2020 02:02 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ]Solich, McElwain, Martin, Leipold, Candle, Creighton top half

Hmm..14, did you know our own Tim Lester has a winning record (7-5) against that group?

Where does that put him?
I'm honestly not impressed w/ any of the current MAC coaches, and wouldn't put any of them head-and-shoulders above Lester as of today.

Creighton & Solich have done wonders for their programs but don't have a title.

Martin & Candle have, but have been inconsistent, and it took for great coaches to leave the Conference for them to win it.

Leipold & McElwain have high ceilings, but McElwain hasn't been in the conference long enough, while Buffalo fans should start getting restless for a title under Leipold.

Lester's been inconsistent, good, not great. You'll have games where you dominate Central & Miami & team looks like it'll run thru a brick wall to win the conference, then you'll have games like Eastern where it looks like they're sleepwalking.
(06-15-2020 08:57 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2020 06:44 PM)MajorHoople Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-14-2020 02:02 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ]Solich, McElwain, Martin, Leipold, Candle, Creighton top half

Hmm..14, did you know our own Tim Lester has a winning record (7-5) against that group?

Where does that put him?

Below Candle at 1-3 against Toledo.
Good point, but there is a correction: 1-2 against Toledo.
2-2 if you count 202003-nerner
Jason Candle being the highest compensated coach in the MAC by far is probably middle of the pack as far as I’m concerned...
He is a great recruiter, but as a game day and X’s and O’s guy, well 6-6, and 3-5 in the league last year, is very telling ... 03-banghead
I don't think Hammock had much talent last year, plus some injuries. Still I'd leave him towards the bottom until he shows he can get us back to "the way......we were...."

I like Creighton. Not just anybody could have come in and made them competitive (and not just for one year). They used to be an easy out.
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