CSNbbs

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commen...or-2020-06

"With the world's attention focused on the pandemic, Chinese troops have been establishing fixed positions in areas that even it considers to be on the Indian side of the disputed Line of Actual Control. The message is clear: China is now the region's preponderant power, and everyone else should fall in line...."

(06-09-2020 01:12 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.project-syndicate.org/commen...or-2020-06

"With the world's attention focused on the pandemic, Chinese troops have been establishing fixed positions in areas that even it considers to be on the Indian side of the disputed Line of Actual Control. The message is clear: China is now the region's preponderant power, and everyone else should fall in line...."

that has always been the goal. The question is can they keep it.

I'm guessing the Chinese subservient US MSM isn't commenting on this.

China may regret f'ing with India

This is an invasion. Why not give them an ultimatum to leave your country by _X_ date, and if they don't, bomb the troops? India should have the right to defend their border.

India will have a lot of allies.

India and PRC have been going back and forth on this stuff for over 60 years, at least. I can’t assess the military significance of PRC’s latest moves, but I am 100% convinced that *if* India feels threatened, they will deal with it in a very aggressive/overt way. They will not be intimidated or bullied.

(06-09-2020 01:25 PM)Native Georgian Wrote: [ -> ]India and PRC have been going back and forth on this stuff for over 60 years, at least. I can’t assess the military significance of PRC’s latest moves, but I am 100% convinced that *if* India feels threatened, they will deal with it in a very aggressive/overt way. They will not be intimidated or bullied.

You are absolutely correct.

China has a couple of problems when it comes to other nations being able to challenge them militarily: the U.S. and India.

List of countries by military expenditures

Rank / Country / Spending (US Bn) / GDP %
1 United States United States of America 732.0 3.4
2 China People's Republic of China[a] 261.0 1.9
3 India India 71.1 2.4
4 Russia Russian Federation 65.1 3.9
5 Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia[a][b] 61.9 8.0
6 France France 50.1 1.9
7 Germany Germany 49.3 1.3
8 United Kingdom United Kingdom 48.7 1.7
9 Japan Japan 47.6 0.9
10 South Korea South Korea 43.9 2.7


The more friendly the relationship between India and the U.S., the worse it is for China.

China has to...

(06-09-2020 01:25 PM)Native Georgian Wrote: [ -> ]India and PRC have been going back and forth on this stuff for over 60 years, at least. I can’t assess the military significance of PRC’s latest moves, but I am 100% convinced that *if* India feels threatened, they will deal with it in a very aggressive/overt way. They will not be intimidated or bullied.

The significance is that they are building permanent structures on what even the Chinese acknowledge as Indian territory. Its an invasion.

Where do the Chinese and the Indians fall on the People of Color Social Justice Victimization Scale? On one hand, Indians have darker skin. On the other hand, the Chinese are Communist so they must be better at social justice.

(06-09-2020 01:12 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.project-syndicate.org/commen...or-2020-06

"With the world's attention focused on the pandemic, Chinese troops have been establishing fixed positions in areas that even it considers to be on the Indian side of the disputed Line of Actual Control. The message is clear: China is now the region's preponderant power, and everyone else should fall in line...."

This happened well over a week ago. And if I hadn't heard of it on the Japanese news network NHK I would never have even known. Xi is definitely testing the resolve of India and is trying to feel out the level of U.S. support for the Indians. China was producing about 1/3rd or more of our pharmaceuticals. The Indians are the second largest supplier behind China. There are U.S. strategic interests here however besides Health Care, and while this incursion is not yet threatening any sensitive area it is a direct challenge to the sovereignty of the Indian government.

This will surely garner the watchful eye of South Korea and Viet Nam as well.

China doesn't do anything without what seems to them to be a well thought out reason. Now we have to try to guess what that might be. Their mistakes happen with such a small feedback loop.

India is a nuclear power and has almost as much spare man power to throw in the meat grinder as China. Im surprised China is pushing this one---but I kinda hope they overplay their hand. China getting sucked into a long Vietnam style limited-intensity that conflict drains resources would be great for the US and its Pacific Rim allies. A shooting war wouldnt do much for Chinese trade route security either I imagine.

(06-09-2020 01:38 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]Where do the Chinese and the Indians fall on the People of Color Social Justice Victimization Scale? On one hand, Indians have darker skin. On the other hand, the Chinese are Communist so they must be better at social justice.

LOL.

Among the American Progressives I have known, pro-India sentiment has seemingly rated a little more highly than pro-PRC. Without wading in too deep, I suspect this has something to do with their memories of Ghandi (I’m referring, of course, to the movie not the actual person) plus the image of India as the victim of British imperialism.

Maybe we could just ask one of the Toms who they are cheering for... or are they waiting for their Soros weekly talking points?

Quote:"It is looking bad, very bad," says security analyst Vipin Narang, of the deadly clash between Indian and Chinese soldiers in Ladakh on Monday night.

The most serious face-off on the world's longest unsettled land border in nearly half a century left 20 Indian soldiers dead. India says both sides suffered casualties.

"Once fatalities are sustained, keeping everything quiet becomes hard on both sides. Now public pressure becomes a variable," Dr Narang, a security studies professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology told me.

"The scale, scope and swathe of the pressure across the border is seemingly unprecedented."

The two nuclear armed neighbours have a chequered history of face-offs and overlapping territorial claims along the more than 3,440km (2,100 mile), poorly drawn Line of Actual Control (LAC) separating the two sides. Border patrols have often bumped into each other, resulting in occasional scuffles. But no bullets have been fired in four decades.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53071913[/quote]

(06-16-2020 03:23 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:"It is looking bad, very bad," says security analyst Vipin Narang, of the deadly clash between Indian and Chinese soldiers in Ladakh on Monday night.

The most serious face-off on the world's longest unsettled land border in nearly half a century left 20 Indian soldiers dead. India says both sides suffered casualties.

"Once fatalities are sustained, keeping everything quiet becomes hard on both sides. Now public pressure becomes a variable," Dr Narang, a security studies professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology told me.

"The scale, scope and swathe of the pressure across the border is seemingly unprecedented."

The two nuclear armed neighbours have a chequered history of face-offs and overlapping territorial claims along the more than 3,440km (2,100 mile), poorly drawn Line of Actual Control (LAC) separating the two sides. Border patrols have often bumped into each other, resulting in occasional scuffles. But no bullets have been fired in four decades.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53071913

[/quote]

China is probing all perimeters. The South China Sea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, in the past few years the Kuril Islands, and now India. They supposedly have cut down trade across the border with North Korea citing COVID as the reason.

Since this is somewhat an unprecedented level of hostility for China in terms of its breadth it makes me wonder how much internal pressure they are experiencing.

(06-16-2020 03:59 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-16-2020 03:23 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:"It is looking bad, very bad," says security analyst Vipin Narang, of the deadly clash between Indian and Chinese soldiers in Ladakh on Monday night.

The most serious face-off on the world's longest unsettled land border in nearly half a century left 20 Indian soldiers dead. India says both sides suffered casualties.

"Once fatalities are sustained, keeping everything quiet becomes hard on both sides. Now public pressure becomes a variable," Dr Narang, a security studies professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology told me.

"The scale, scope and swathe of the pressure across the border is seemingly unprecedented."

The two nuclear armed neighbours have a chequered history of face-offs and overlapping territorial claims along the more than 3,440km (2,100 mile), poorly drawn Line of Actual Control (LAC) separating the two sides. Border patrols have often bumped into each other, resulting in occasional scuffles. But no bullets have been fired in four decades.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53071913

China is probing all perimeters. The South China Sea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, in the past few years the Kuril Islands, and now India. They supposedly have cut down trade across the border with North Korea citing COVID as the reason.

Since this is somewhat an unprecedented level of hostility for China in terms of its breadth it makes me wonder how much internal pressure they are experiencing.
[/quote]

If you believe Zeihan (which I do), the internal pressure is quite high based on a slew of issues like unsecured debt (private and public), demographics, falling short of growth economically to pay off their people, etc. I think this iteration of the communists are close to losing their power.

(06-16-2020 08:05 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-16-2020 03:59 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-16-2020 03:23 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:"It is looking bad, very bad," says security analyst Vipin Narang, of the deadly clash between Indian and Chinese soldiers in Ladakh on Monday night.

The most serious face-off on the world's longest unsettled land border in nearly half a century left 20 Indian soldiers dead. India says both sides suffered casualties.

"Once fatalities are sustained, keeping everything quiet becomes hard on both sides. Now public pressure becomes a variable," Dr Narang, a security studies professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology told me.

"The scale, scope and swathe of the pressure across the border is seemingly unprecedented."

The two nuclear armed neighbours have a chequered history of face-offs and overlapping territorial claims along the more than 3,440km (2,100 mile), poorly drawn Line of Actual Control (LAC) separating the two sides. Border patrols have often bumped into each other, resulting in occasional scuffles. But no bullets have been fired in four decades.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53071913

China is probing all perimeters. The South China Sea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, in the past few years the Kuril Islands, and now India. They supposedly have cut down trade across the border with North Korea citing COVID as the reason.

Since this is somewhat an unprecedented level of hostility for China in terms of its breadth it makes me wonder how much internal pressure they are experiencing.

If you believe Zeihan (which I do), the internal pressure is quite high based on a slew of issues like unsecured debt (private and public), demographics, falling short of growth economically to pay off their people, etc. I think this iteration of the communists are close to losing their power.
[/quote]

Well they also have a dictator for life now. Before the party always tempered the leader.

(06-16-2020 08:11 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-16-2020 08:05 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-16-2020 03:59 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-16-2020 03:23 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:"It is looking bad, very bad," says security analyst Vipin Narang, of the deadly clash between Indian and Chinese soldiers in Ladakh on Monday night.

The most serious face-off on the world's longest unsettled land border in nearly half a century left 20 Indian soldiers dead. India says both sides suffered casualties.

"Once fatalities are sustained, keeping everything quiet becomes hard on both sides. Now public pressure becomes a variable," Dr Narang, a security studies professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology told me.

"The scale, scope and swathe of the pressure across the border is seemingly unprecedented."

The two nuclear armed neighbours have a chequered history of face-offs and overlapping territorial claims along the more than 3,440km (2,100 mile), poorly drawn Line of Actual Control (LAC) separating the two sides. Border patrols have often bumped into each other, resulting in occasional scuffles. But no bullets have been fired in four decades.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53071913

China is probing all perimeters. The South China Sea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, in the past few years the Kuril Islands, and now India. They supposedly have cut down trade across the border with North Korea citing COVID as the reason.

Since this is somewhat an unprecedented level of hostility for China in terms of its breadth it makes me wonder how much internal pressure they are experiencing.

If you believe Zeihan (which I do), the internal pressure is quite high based on a slew of issues like unsecured debt (private and public), demographics, falling short of growth economically to pay off their people, etc. I think this iteration of the communists are close to losing their power.

Well they also have a dictator for life now. Before the party always tempered the leader.
[/quote]

That is highly problematic. The thought had crossed my mind that Xi was looking for the easiest expansionistic ploy to exploit for PR. The problematic part is that once you have a dictator for life they only way they give up power is when you pry it out of their cold dead fingers.