Evidently burning down buildings, attacking police and looting stores does not compare to the real crimes of wanting to open churches, restaurants and small businesses. Yep, the Dems know the real criminals in this country.
Quote:The coronavirus lockdown is seemingly down and out, as many Democrats in charge of big cities -- including several who once insisted on strict quarantine measures -- line up to champion the nationwide mass demonstrations over the in-custody death of George Floyd, sans social distancing.
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo lashed out at protesters calling to reopen the state earlier this month, saying at a news conference, "you have no right to jeopardize my health ... and my children's health and your children's health." Cuomo's directives have been enforced throughout the state: A New York City tanning salon owner told Fox News he was fined $1,000 for reopening briefly last week, calling the situation "insane" and saying he already was "broke."
On Friday, though, Cuomo said he "stands" with those defying stay-at-home orders: "Nobody is sanctioning the arson, and the thuggery and the burglaries, but the protesters and the anger and the fear and the frustration? Yes. Yes, and the demand is for justice."
In April, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio told the Jewish community that "the time for warnings has passed" after he said a funeral gathering had violated social distancing guidelines. On Sunday, the mayor asserted, "We have always honored non-violent protests."
Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, meanwhile, had warned that in-person worship services would be a "public-health disaster," disregarding constituents' concerns that he was violating their First Amendment rights. Now, his administration has been distributing masks to rioters, even though public gatherings of 10 or more are still ostensibly banned. Frey also allowed a police station to burn, saying it was necessary to protect police and rioters.
"The city encourages everyone to exercise caution to stay safe while participating in demonstrations, including wearing masks and physical distancing as much as possible to prevent the spread of COVID-19," a news release read. "The city has made hundreds of masks available to protesters this week."
The mayor of Washington D.C., Muriel Bowser, vowed $5,000 fines or 90 days in jail for anyone violating stay-at-home orders. This weekend, though, Bowser defended the protests: "We are grieving hundreds of years of institutional racism. ... People are tired, sad, angry and desperate for change." An angry mob of rioters in the city turned its rage on a Fox News crew early Saturday, chasing and pummeling the journalists outside the White House in a harrowing scene captured on video.
Link
They’ve lost the “gotta stay locked down for safety” excuse when MUH SECOND WAVE hits. There’s no way in hell that business owners will stay closed losing their livelihood while these goofs like deblasio, Cuomo and whitmer let animals run wild in the streets.
(06-01-2020 09:44 AM)usmbacker Wrote: [ -> ]Evidently burning down buildings, attacking police and looting stores does not compare to the real crimes of wanting to open churches, restaurants and small businesses. Yep, the Dems know the real criminals in this country.
Quote:The coronavirus lockdown is seemingly down and out, as many Democrats in charge of big cities -- including several who once insisted on strict quarantine measures -- line up to champion the nationwide mass demonstrations over the in-custody death of George Floyd, sans social distancing.
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo lashed out at protesters calling to reopen the state earlier this month, saying at a news conference, "you have no right to jeopardize my health ... and my children's health and your children's health." Cuomo's directives have been enforced throughout the state: A New York City tanning salon owner told Fox News he was fined $1,000 for reopening briefly last week, calling the situation "insane" and saying he already was "broke."
On Friday, though, Cuomo said he "stands" with those defying stay-at-home orders: "Nobody is sanctioning the arson, and the thuggery and the burglaries, but the protesters and the anger and the fear and the frustration? Yes. Yes, and the demand is for justice."
In April, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio told the Jewish community that "the time for warnings has passed" after he said a funeral gathering had violated social distancing guidelines. On Sunday, the mayor asserted, "We have always honored non-violent protests."
Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, meanwhile, had warned that in-person worship services would be a "public-health disaster," disregarding constituents' concerns that he was violating their First Amendment rights. Now, his administration has been distributing masks to rioters, even though public gatherings of 10 or more are still ostensibly banned. Frey also allowed a police station to burn, saying it was necessary to protect police and rioters.
"The city encourages everyone to exercise caution to stay safe while participating in demonstrations, including wearing masks and physical distancing as much as possible to prevent the spread of COVID-19," a news release read. "The city has made hundreds of masks available to protesters this week."
The mayor of Washington D.C., Muriel Bowser, vowed $5,000 fines or 90 days in jail for anyone violating stay-at-home orders. This weekend, though, Bowser defended the protests: "We are grieving hundreds of years of institutional racism. ... People are tired, sad, angry and desperate for change." An angry mob of rioters in the city turned its rage on a Fox News crew early Saturday, chasing and pummeling the journalists outside the White House in a harrowing scene captured on video.
Link
I hate it when people make statements like the bolded. As if their is some type of racial memory within humanity that grants one access to the memories of their ancestors.
Also, change is easy to do. Just disband the police department if you feel they are incapable of performing their duties.
Being a police officer is a difficult job - it also Demands a certain type of personality. Unfortunately, that type of personality is one of a "tough-guy" which usually comes in the form of those A-holes who used to bully people in High School.
Not all are like that, but if I look at my local Police Department and the one in my Neighboring town, roughly have of them are people I grew up with or around and they were f-ing a-holes when they were teenagers. Not shockingly, most of them are still A-holes to a similar degree now.
I do know a lot of really good people who serve and protect, but I also know many who would still knock you out over a parking ticket....
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/202...word-riot/
In between their idiocy saying calling a "riot" a "riot" is racist, Mother Jones does have a point. For many it was a "rebellion." I heard one protestor talking about the violent capitalist society and how capitalism threatens all the people.
"“...Riot” is a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd, and “rebellion” [is] resistance to authority or control, with some conditions: If no peace was in place to begin with, the disturbance-of-peace requirement for riot isn’t met and the action may be a rebellion instead—if it’s aimed at demanding rights. “Riot” tells you next to nothing about cause, context, or goals. “Rebellion” hints at each: A rebellion is against something, for something, with emphasis on both subject and object...."
To be fair it seems like most of the rioters are wearing masks.
(06-01-2020 11:39 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]To be fair it seems like most of the rioters are wearing masks.
They definitely weren't social distancing.
(06-01-2020 11:54 AM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2020 11:39 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]To be fair it seems like most of the rioters are wearing masks.
They definitely weren't social distancing.
Let's be honest. COVID was the last thing on their collective minds when there was a free TV to be had, etc.
(06-01-2020 11:36 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.motherjones.com/politics/202...word-riot/
In between their idiocy saying calling a "riot" a "riot" is racist, Mother Jones does have a point. For many it was a "rebellion." I heard one protestor talking about the violent capitalist society and how capitalism threatens all the people.
"“...Riot” is a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd, and “rebellion” [is] resistance to authority or control, with some conditions: If no peace was in place to begin with, the disturbance-of-peace requirement for riot isn’t met and the action may be a rebellion instead—if it’s aimed at demanding rights. “Riot” tells you next to nothing about cause, context, or goals. “Rebellion” hints at each: A rebellion is against something, for something, with emphasis on both subject and object...."
I would ask them if they knew what the results were from many of the rebellions throughout history and what happened when the revolutionaries got their way.
(06-01-2020 10:09 AM)Eldonabe Wrote: [ -> ]Being a police officer is a difficult job - it also Demands a certain type of personality. Unfortunately, that type of personality is one of a "tough-guy" which usually comes in the form of those A-holes who used to bully people in High School.
Not all are like that, but if I look at my local Police Department and the one in my Neighboring town, roughly have of them are people I grew up with or around and they were f-ing a-holes when they were teenagers. Not shockingly, most of them are still A-holes to a similar degree now.
I do know a lot of really good people who serve and protect, but I also know many who would still knock you out over a parking ticket....
I've heard the sheep-wolves-sheep dog analogy before.
The people are the sheep -- rather docile.
The criminals are the wolves -- aggressive and mean, prey on the sheep.
The police are the sheep dogs -- aggressive and benevolent, protect the sheep.
(06-01-2020 11:36 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.motherjones.com/politics/202...word-riot/
In between their idiocy saying calling a "riot" a "riot" is racist, Mother Jones does have a point. For many it was a "rebellion." I heard one protestor talking about the violent capitalist society and how capitalism threatens all the people.
"“...Riot” is a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd, and “rebellion” [is] resistance to authority or control, with some conditions: If no peace was in place to begin with, the disturbance-of-peace requirement for riot isn’t met and the action may be a rebellion instead—if it’s aimed at demanding rights. “Riot” tells you next to nothing about cause, context, or goals. “Rebellion” hints at each: A rebellion is against something, for something, with emphasis on both subject and object...."
I wonder how capitalism threatens all the people.
(06-01-2020 12:49 PM)umbluegray Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2020 11:36 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.motherjones.com/politics/202...word-riot/
In between their idiocy saying calling a "riot" a "riot" is racist, Mother Jones does have a point. For many it was a "rebellion." I heard one protestor talking about the violent capitalist society and how capitalism threatens all the people.
"“...Riot” is a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd, and “rebellion” [is] resistance to authority or control, with some conditions: If no peace was in place to begin with, the disturbance-of-peace requirement for riot isn’t met and the action may be a rebellion instead—if it’s aimed at demanding rights. “Riot” tells you next to nothing about cause, context, or goals. “Rebellion” hints at each: A rebellion is against something, for something, with emphasis on both subject and object...."
I wonder how capitalism threatens all the people.
Via nonsensical buzz terms like wage slavery, food deserts, digital divide and glass ceilings. Not that the alternative would be better.
(06-01-2020 11:39 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]To be fair it seems like most of the rioters are wearing masks.
Only to help hide their identities to make it easier to commit crime, not for any health safety reasons, to be sure.
(06-01-2020 12:52 PM)vandiver49 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2020 12:49 PM)umbluegray Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2020 11:36 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.motherjones.com/politics/202...word-riot/
In between their idiocy saying calling a "riot" a "riot" is racist, Mother Jones does have a point. For many it was a "rebellion." I heard one protestor talking about the violent capitalist society and how capitalism threatens all the people.
"“...Riot” is a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd, and “rebellion” [is] resistance to authority or control, with some conditions: If no peace was in place to begin with, the disturbance-of-peace requirement for riot isn’t met and the action may be a rebellion instead—if it’s aimed at demanding rights. “Riot” tells you next to nothing about cause, context, or goals. “Rebellion” hints at each: A rebellion is against something, for something, with emphasis on both subject and object...."
I wonder how capitalism threatens all the people.
Via nonsensical buzz terms like wage slavery, food deserts, digital divide and glass ceilings. Not that the alternative would be better.
Well Vandiver there is both a rebellion and riot going on in one action, but by two wholly different forces with separate agendas and that is what is concerning to me. The rebellion is asking for stronger consideration for the human rights of African Americans arrested for minor non violent crimes, and with that a greater awareness of the difference in treatment that African Americans receive when arrested for felonies as opposed to the treatment of others of different ethnicity arrested for similar crimes.
That's one agenda with a largely peaceful exercise of their rights of protest. But mixed in with them is an alien agenda that seeks to foment racial tensions with behavior designed to provoke a violent response by authorities. So they encourage lawlessness to this end. Now within this movement there are professional agitators and then there are the opportunistic thugs they encourage who are nothing more than criminals given the cover of the innocent.
The former are citizens exercising their rights in seeking a remedy for a grievance. The latter are foreign or domestic terrorists exploiting emotion to force political change. The meet the criterial of terrorists and or seditionists and those they encourage are simply criminals. So contained within this element you have those attacking our government and those encouraged to use the situation to steal.
The effectiveness of this strategy is that it destroys the rights of those who assembly peaceably for redress and confuses their cause with the anarchy, and the organizers melt away once the crime gets rolling because they don't want to be arrested and questioned. So once the melee unfolds the innocent are left in the street with the criminals in hopes that the government or law enforcement confuses he two and hurts an innocent so that a new martyr is born. Classic Alinsky tactics.
(06-01-2020 01:28 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Well Vandiver there is both a rebellion and riot going on in one action, but by two wholly different forces with separate agendas and that is what is concerning to me. The rebellion is asking for stronger consideration for the human rights of African Americans arrested for minor non violent crimes, and with that a greater awareness of the difference in treatment that African Americans receive when arrested for felonies as opposed to the treatment of others of different ethnicity arrested for similar crimes.
The cops manage to kill more whites than blacks on a yearly basis yet no one seems to think it is protest worthy. IMO, the argument of police brutality is diminished when bifurcated along racial lines. There isn't any different between Rodney King and Waco.
Quote: That's one agenda with a largely peaceful exercise of their rights of protest. But mixed in with them is an alien agenda that seeks to foment racial tensions with behavior designed to provoke a violent response by authorities. So they encourage lawlessness to this end. Now within this movement there are professional agitators and then there are the opportunistic thugs they encourage who are nothing more than criminals given the cover of the innocent.
But if judged by the actions when the spotlight is dimmed, I have not seem a single action by any organization that would actually de-escalate this situation. Police become more militarized and are charged with upholding more laws not fewer. In fact many civil right leaders endorsed the 3 strike law passed by Clinton that only served to ramp up this situation.
Quote:The former are citizens exercising their rights in seeking a remedy for a grievance. The latter are foreign or domestic terrorists exploiting emotion to force political change. The meet the criterial of terrorists and or seditionists and those they encourage are simply criminals. So contained within this element you have those attacking our government and those encouraged to use the situation to steal.
I get criminals and seditionists will use every excuse possible to ply their trade, which is why it is important that solutions are found outside the context of emotional triggers. Terrorists have no interest in that level of minutiae.
Quote:The effectiveness of this strategy is that it destroys the rights of those who assembly peaceably for redress and confuses their cause with the anarchy, and the organizers melt away once the crime gets rolling because they don't want to be arrested and questioned. So once the melee unfolds the innocent are left in the street with the criminals in hopes that the government or law enforcement confuses he two and hurts an innocent so that a new martyr is born. Classic Alinsky tactics.
Said tactics have been known about for over 50 years now. Falling prey to them is no longer an excuse.
(06-01-2020 02:54 PM)vandiver49 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2020 01:28 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]Well Vandiver there is both a rebellion and riot going on in one action, but by two wholly different forces with separate agendas and that is what is concerning to me. The rebellion is asking for stronger consideration for the human rights of African Americans arrested for minor non violent crimes, and with that a greater awareness of the difference in treatment that African Americans receive when arrested for felonies as opposed to the treatment of others of different ethnicity arrested for similar crimes.
The cops manage to kill more whites than blacks on a yearly basis yet no one seems to think it is protest worthy. IMO, the argument of police brutality is diminished when bifurcated along racial lines. There isn't any different between Rodney King and Waco.
Quote: That's one agenda with a largely peaceful exercise of their rights of protest. But mixed in with them is an alien agenda that seeks to foment racial tensions with behavior designed to provoke a violent response by authorities. So they encourage lawlessness to this end. Now within this movement there are professional agitators and then there are the opportunistic thugs they encourage who are nothing more than criminals given the cover of the innocent.
But if judged by the actions when the spotlight is dimmed, I have not seem a single action by any organization that would actually de-escalate this situation. Police become more militarized and are charged with upholding more laws not fewer. In fact many civil right leaders endorsed the 3 strike law passed by Clinton that only served to ramp up this situation.
Quote:The former are citizens exercising their rights in seeking a remedy for a grievance. The latter are foreign or domestic terrorists exploiting emotion to force political change. The meet the criterial of terrorists and or seditionists and those they encourage are simply criminals. So contained within this element you have those attacking our government and those encouraged to use the situation to steal.
I get criminals and seditionists will use every excuse possible to ply their trade, which is why it is important that solutions are found outside the context of emotional triggers. Terrorists have no interest in that level of minutiae.
Quote:The effectiveness of this strategy is that it destroys the rights of those who assembly peaceably for redress and confuses their cause with the anarchy, and the organizers melt away once the crime gets rolling because they don't want to be arrested and questioned. So once the melee unfolds the innocent are left in the street with the criminals in hopes that the government or law enforcement confuses he two and hurts an innocent so that a new martyr is born. Classic Alinsky tactics.
Said tactics have been known about for over 50 years now. Falling prey to them is no longer an excuse.
1. Rodney King was LAPD. WACO, Ruby Ridge, and Elian Gonzalez were Feds, and all of them FEDS under Clinton. If more whites are killed it doesn't lessen a tension reduction among the 14% of the population convinced they are targeted. A sensible look into all of it might enlighten all with the truth and doesn't diminish their right to protest even if they are wrong.
2. The Law Enforcement personnel who left their guns and helmets at the station and joined the protestors seem to have de-escalated those events quite nicely. Also the protests staged in largely conservative run cities have not had issues. Just cities where liberals with an agenda are in power.
3. Terrorists due have an interest in that level of minutia. Their interest is to use that as a screen for their agenda. That is motive enough. They need to be tagged electronically, and spirited away from the crowd. The organizers are on their blue tooth and we can certainly surveil that and if they are texting in code then simply pick up the sender and the receivers. Time to use high tech appropriately. And quite frankly if they are violent we have drones now the size of a wasp quite capable of taking them out and not the innocents standing by them.
4. Said tactics would be worthless if not for the cover of a complicit media which is quite capable of delineating the alien agenda from the function. So I'd say the issue here is not one of law enforcement or even government, but one of a corporately owned media which uses the presentation of what they call news to manipulate the public nightly. Make all media by law independent of corporate conglomerate ownership and make them all stand alone and things would change.
Nobody is taking up the anti-trust laws needed to escape this box.
(06-01-2020 03:08 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]1. Rodney King was LAPD. WACO, Ruby Ridge, and Elian Gonzalez were Feds, and all of them FEDS under Clinton. If more whites are killed it doesn't lessen a tension reduction among the 14% of the population convinced they are targeted. A sensible look into all of it might enlighten all with the truth and doesn't diminish their right to protest even if they are wrong.
IMO, blacks are going to have a hard convincing the nation to change direction if the cause isn't broadened. In many minds these are isolated incidents that are exacerbated my the media. An opinion which is statistically correct since there are millions of interactions between law enforcement and the population that don't end with brutality or death. Also, because of law enforcement's hierarchical organization, I purposely didn't differentiate between local and federal police. The formal tends to emulate the latter.
Quote:2. The Law Enforcement personnel who left their guns and helmets at the station and joined the protestors seem to have de-escalated those events quite nicely. Also the protests staged in largely conservative run cities have not had issues. Just cities where liberals with an agenda are in power.
While I hope the de-escalation continues, I don't think mayors letting their cities burn out of some sense of justified retribution does anything to promote healthy cities or lesson racial tensions. And said officers after the hand holding should drag reps from the Fraternal Order of Police into the disenfranchised communities in order to open a dialogue.
Quote:3. Terrorists due have an interest in that level of minutia. Their interest is to use that as a screen for their agenda. That is motive enough. They need to be tagged electronically, and spirited away from the crowd. The organizers are on their blue tooth and we can certainly surveil that and if they are texting in code then simply pick up the sender and the receivers. Time to use high tech appropriately. And quite frankly if they are violent we have drones now the size of a wasp quite capable of taking them out and not the innocents standing by them.
Rabble Rousers aren't interested in drafting policy or removing laws. There are professional lobbyist for that.
Quote:4. Said tactics would be worthless if not for the cover of a complicit media which is quite capable of delineating the alien agenda from the function. So I'd say the issue here is not one of law enforcement or even government, but one of a corporately owned media which uses the presentation of what they call news to manipulate the public nightly. Make all media by law independent of corporate conglomerate ownership and make them all stand alone and things would change.
Nobody is taking up the anti-trust laws needed to escape this box.
I think I've mentioned this to you before, but we shouldn't be shocked by the actions of the MSM. The 1960-1998 era of journalism is the actual outlier. The '4th branch' has simply reverted back to their historical mean of yellow journalism. Hearst and Upton Sinclair would be proud. Thus onus is on the reader to gleam where the truth is.
(06-01-2020 03:32 PM)vandiver49 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2020 03:08 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]1. Rodney King was LAPD. WACO, Ruby Ridge, and Elian Gonzalez were Feds, and all of them FEDS under Clinton. If more whites are killed it doesn't lessen a tension reduction among the 14% of the population convinced they are targeted. A sensible look into all of it might enlighten all with the truth and doesn't diminish their right to protest even if they are wrong.
IMO, blacks are going to have a hard convincing the nation to change direction if the cause isn't broadened. In many minds these are isolated incidents that are exacerbated my the media. An opinion which is statistically correct since there are millions of interactions between law enforcement and the population that don't end with brutality or death. Also, because of law enforcement's hierarchical organization, I purposely didn't differentiate between local and federal police. The formal tends to emulate the latter.
Quote:2. The Law Enforcement personnel who left their guns and helmets at the station and joined the protestors seem to have de-escalated those events quite nicely. Also the protests staged in largely conservative run cities have not had issues. Just cities where liberals with an agenda are in power.
While I hope the de-escalation continues, I don't think mayors letting their cities burn out of some sense of justified retribution does anything to promote healthy cities or lesson racial tensions. And said officers after the hand holding should drag reps from the Fraternal Order of Police into the disenfranchised communities in order to open a dialogue.
Quote:3. Terrorists due have an interest in that level of minutia. Their interest is to use that as a screen for their agenda. That is motive enough. They need to be tagged electronically, and spirited away from the crowd. The organizers are on their blue tooth and we can certainly surveil that and if they are texting in code then simply pick up the sender and the receivers. Time to use high tech appropriately. And quite frankly if they are violent we have drones now the size of a wasp quite capable of taking them out and not the innocents standing by them.
Rabble Rousers aren't interested in drafting policy or removing laws. There are professional lobbyist for that.
Quote:4. Said tactics would be worthless if not for the cover of a complicit media which is quite capable of delineating the alien agenda from the function. So I'd say the issue here is not one of law enforcement or even government, but one of a corporately owned media which uses the presentation of what they call news to manipulate the public nightly. Make all media by law independent of corporate conglomerate ownership and make them all stand alone and things would change.
Nobody is taking up the anti-trust laws needed to escape this box.
I think I've mentioned this to you before, but we shouldn't be shocked by the actions of the MSM. The 1960-1998 era of journalism is the actual outlier. The '4th branch' has simply reverted back to their historical mean of yellow journalism. Hearst and Upton Sinclair would be proud. Thus onus is on the reader to gleam where the truth is.
1. The former may imitate the latter but the Feds receive a vast amount of training compared to the scant training of many local law enforcement agencies. I agree the problem is small compared to all interactions. See my last post in the What Grinds My Gears thread.
2. Agree absolutely about the mayors. What strikes me about your second comment in this section is the disappearance of the beat cop in modern law enforcement. The beat officer knew everyone in his neighborhood as surely as the local ministers once did. The people grew to trust them and the crooks feared their rapport with the people. A lot of gumshoe work was done on the beat as people tend to talk to those they trust and tend to clam up around strangers. We are missing something there.
3. Vandiver Rabble Rousing is to pressure legal change, or overthrow it. Of course they are interested in every opportunity. Lobbyist may work on the changes but it's the Rabble Rousers that bring the issues front and center and do so by distorted threat.
4. Yellow journalism has always been with us. It's just that the tabloids occupied that niche for a long time. What has actually happened is that newspapers, and evening TV shows, have become the tabloids.
Frankly I hope all any of their owners have to cling to at the ends of their miserable lives is, "Rosebud."
(06-01-2020 03:56 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]1. The former may imitate the latter but the Feds receive a vast amount of training compared to the scant training of many local law enforcement agencies. I agree the problem is small compared to all interactions. See my last post in the What Grinds My Gears thread.
That goes to my point. These smaller departments are buying up surplus military gear, hiring ex-military personnel and then rolling into the street like they are ATF. And while the lack is available training is self-evident, the inability to properly screen candidates also compounds the issue. I'll read your post shortly.
Quote:2. Agree absolutely about the mayors. What strikes me about your second comment in this section is the disappearance of the beat cop in modern law enforcement. The beat officer knew everyone in his neighborhood as surely as the local ministers once did. The people grew to trust them and the crooks feared their rapport with the people. A lot of gumshoe work was done on the beat as people tend to talk to those they trust and tend to clam up around strangers. We are missing something there.
The idea that a rolling patrol could replace walking the beat was obviously false. That said, there is nothing stopping cops from just showing up at schools, at park gatherings and even church functions just to drop in and say hello. Doing this would require buy-in from neighborhoods of concern, a tall order with the amount of distrust that exists.
Quote:3. Vandiver Rabble Rousing is to pressure legal change, or overthrow it. Of course they are interested in every opportunity. Lobbyist may work on the changes but it's the Rabble Rousers that bring the issues front and center and do so by distorted threat.
Then what change are they seeking with this round of rioting? You lived through the riots of the 60's so I'll concede to your perspective if I'm wrong. But at issue in that era was the fact that the nation wasn't affording the ideals laid out in the Declaration to all of its people. And with socialism as the potential alternative, the very soul of the country was at stake if meaningful change wasn't implimented. BLM is a meaning statement and cannot be the foundation for change because the truth is that all black lives
do not matter. There would be credibility if the call to action was 'Stop Police Brutality' or 'Do Your Job; Serve and Protect'.
Quote:4. Yellow journalism has always been with us. It's just that the tabloids occupied that niche for a long time. What has actually happened is that newspapers, and evening TV shows, have become the tabloids.
Frankly I hope all any of their owners have to cling to at the ends of their miserable lives is, "Rosebud."
The MSM managed to successful discredit tabloids by hanging the yellow journalism label on them while they chose to knight themselves as 'The 4th Estate'. That is Don Draper level marketing and TBH with revenue from adverts, classifieds and subscriptions, they were sort of able to live up to it. But the internet caused the media revert back to its nature state. I hold no hope of your bolded coming true; instead I want their special consideration opened to all bodies that think of themselves a news organizations. As Syndrome stated...'if everyone is special, then no one is.'
(06-01-2020 05:04 PM)vandiver49 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2020 03:56 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]1. The former may imitate the latter but the Feds receive a vast amount of training compared to the scant training of many local law enforcement agencies. I agree the problem is small compared to all interactions. See my last post in the What Grinds My Gears thread.
That goes to my point. These smaller departments are buying up surplus military gear, hiring ex-military personnel and then rolling into the street like they are ATF. And while the lack is available training is self-evident, the inability to properly screen candidates also compounds the issue. I'll read your post shortly.
Quote:2. Agree absolutely about the mayors. What strikes me about your second comment in this section is the disappearance of the beat cop in modern law enforcement. The beat officer knew everyone in his neighborhood as surely as the local ministers once did. The people grew to trust them and the crooks feared their rapport with the people. A lot of gumshoe work was done on the beat as people tend to talk to those they trust and tend to clam up around strangers. We are missing something there.
The idea that a rolling patrol could replace walking the beat was obviously false. That said, there is nothing stopping cops from just showing up at schools, at park gatherings and even church functions just to drop in and say hello. Doing this would require buy-in from neighborhoods of concern, a tall order with the amount of distrust that exists.
Quote:3. Vandiver Rabble Rousing is to pressure legal change, or overthrow it. Of course they are interested in every opportunity. Lobbyist may work on the changes but it's the Rabble Rousers that bring the issues front and center and do so by distorted threat.
Then what change are they seeking with this round of rioting? You lived through the riots of the 60's so I'll concede to your perspective if I'm wrong. But at issue in that era was the fact that the nation wasn't affording the ideals laid out in the Declaration to all of its people. And with socialism as the potential alternative, the very soul of the country was at stake if meaningful change wasn't implimented. BLM is a meaning statement and cannot be the foundation for change because the truth is that all black lives do not matter. There would be credibility if the call to action was 'Stop Police Brutality' or 'Do Your Job; Serve and Protect'.
Quote:4. Yellow journalism has always been with us. It's just that the tabloids occupied that niche for a long time. What has actually happened is that newspapers, and evening TV shows, have become the tabloids.
Frankly I hope all any of their owners have to cling to at the ends of their miserable lives is, "Rosebud."
The MSM managed to successful discredit tabloids by hanging the yellow journalism label on them while they chose to knight themselves as 'The 4th Estate'. That is Don Draper level marketing and TBH with revenue from adverts, classifieds and subscriptions, they were sort of able to live up to it. But the internet caused the media revert back to its nature state. I hold no hope of your bolded coming true; instead I want their special consideration opened to all bodies that think of themselves a news organizations. As Syndrome stated...'if everyone is special, then no one is.'
1. I agree about the attitude and lack of training here. And for the record HSA has given a lot of these smaller departments military equipment in addition to the surplus purchases. There is a fundamental difference between protecting and serving and dispatching hostiles.
2. If the beat cop is organic to the community he or she serves the buy in is much more natural and that's the way it was in cities in this country in the 20's and 30's.
3. We aren't connecting well here. The legitimate protest is seeking equal treatment under the law and by implication a standard of police conduct when making an arrest.
BLM is trying to shoot the moon on their demands for special treatment that none of us will ever receive.
ANTIFA is trying to drive the racial divide to volatile levels. They are pushing a communist/socialist agenda that some corporate lobbyists and some in Congress want to grow into incursions into our liberties that can be exploited. In as much as BLM ties themselves to this group they are complicit as well. Only their stated objective is merely a justification for the rest.
4. My Citizen Cane quip was only that. I've never lived as anyone special and despise those who want that status no matter who they are. We are all in this together and nobody is getting out it alive.
I prefer to call the news industry what it really is, Muckraking Fiction.
