I know preseason polls mean nothing but with no other sports happening its a very welcome distraction. Hero sports just came out with theirs
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-2020...op-25-bzbz
Seems like them having SDSU at 2 is following a similar logic to having us ranked at 2 to start last season. Disappointing end of the season but returning a ton of talent. I disagree with us at 5 however. figured we would be 3 or 4
One things for sure, definitely going to turn some heads this year if we play
Bulletin Board Material. Post it in the weight room... whenever that opens.
ha. Top 3 from the MVC.
Hero has always had a bias toward the MVC.
the only MVC team that has beaten us is NDSU. And we know both our losses to them were 50/50 games.
(05-27-2020 11:55 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote: [ -> ]ha. Top 3 from the MVC.
Hero has always had a bias toward the MVC.
the only MVC team that has beaten us is NDSU. And we know both our losses to them were 50/50 games.
Love how UNI who didnt cross midfield until the 4th quarter is the 3rd best team in the nation
5th? WTH? They always over rank us!
I was expecting to see us 2nd.
Perhaps 5th is over ranked. I guess we lost a lot.
Here's Hero Sports pre-season ranking last year and lets see how it compared to the final Coaches poll.
1. JAMES MADISON
2. NORTH DAKOTA STATE
3. UC DAVIS
4. MAINE
5. SOUTH DAKOTA STATE
6. JACKSONVILLE STATE
7. EASTERN WASHINGTON
8. WOFFORD
9. ILLINOIS STATE
10. TOWSON
11. WEBER STATE
12. ELON
13. NICHOLLS
14. MONTANA STATE
15. FURMAN
16. CENTRAL ARKANSAS
17. YALE
18. INDIANA STATE
19. CHATTANOOGA
20. SAM HOUSTON STATE
21. ALCORN STATE
22. KENNESAW STATE
23. PRINCETON
24. EASTERN KENTUCKY
25. THE CITADEL
Coaches Postseason
1 North Dakota St.
2 James Madison
3 Weber St.
4 Montana St.
5 Northern Iowa
6 Montana
7 Illinois St.
8 Kennesaw St.
9 Sacramento St.
10 Austin Peay
11 Central Arkansas
12 South Dakota St.
13 Monmouth (N.J.)
14 Nicholls
15 Villanova
16 Southeast Missouri St.
17 Wofford
18 Southeastern Louisiana
19 Furman
20 Albany
21 Dartmouth
22 Central Connecticut St.
23 North Carolina A&T
24 Yale
25 Florida A&M
How far off was Hero Sports? Teams pushed to 26th if unranked.
1. JAMES MADISON (-1)
2. NORTH DAKOTA STATE (+1)
3. UC DAVIS (-23)
4. MAINE (-22)
5. SOUTH DAKOTA STATE (-7)
6. JACKSONVILLE STATE (-20)
7. EASTERN WASHINGTON (-19)
8. WOFFORD (-9)
9. ILLINOIS STATE (+2)
10. TOWSON (-16)
11. WEBER STATE (+8)
12. ELON (-14)
13. NICHOLLS (-1)
14. MONTANA STATE (+10)
15. FURMAN (-4)
16. CENTRAL ARKANSAS (+5)
17. YALE (-7)
18. INDIANA STATE (-8)
19. CHATTANOOGA (-7)
20. SAM HOUSTON STATE (-6)
21. ALCORN STATE (-5)
22. KENNESAW STATE (+14)
23. PRINCETON (-3)
24. EASTERN KENTUCKY (-2)
25. THE CITADEL (-1)
They weren't correct on a single rank position (understandably, who is? other than NDSU).
Of teams on the preseason poll:
Their average underrating was by 6.67 ranks (six underrated teams).
Their average overrating was by 9.21 ranks (nineteen overrated teams).
It's only one year as a sample but they're definitely skewing towards overrating teams the majority of the time. 19 of 26 were overrated and that top 10 wasn't even close.
Last year's HERO's pre season poll. Only 3 of their top 7, and 6 of their top 12, and only 10 of their top 25 made the playoffs.
1. JAMES MADISON
2. NORTH DAKOTA STATE
3. UC DAVIS (5-7, no playoffs)
4. MAINE (6-6, no playoffs)
5. SOUTH DAKOTA STATE
6. JACKSONVILLE STATE (6-6 no playoffs)
7. EASTERN WASHINGTON (7-5 no playoffs)
8. WOFFORD
9. ILLINOIS STATE
10. TOWSON (7-5 no playoffs)
11. WEBER STATE
12. ELON (5-6 no playoffs)
13. NICHOLLS
14. MONTANA STATE
15. FURMAN
16. CENTRAL ARKANSAS
17. YALE ----
18. INDIANA STATE (5-7, no playoffs)
19. CHATTANOOGA (6-6, no playoffs)
20. SAM HOUSTON STATE (7-5, no playoffs)
21. ALCORN STATE ----
22. KENNESAW STATE
23. PRINCETON ----
24. EASTERN KENTUCKY (7-5, no playoffs)
25. THE CITADEL (6-6, no playoffs)
This year's pre season poll will prove to be equally as worthless.
haha love it, hope the coaches and players have already seen it.
a lot of confidence on here but if we all put the purple koolaid down for just a second, and acknowledge that we all know that the Dukes are the best...
What makes anybody think we have a top 5 team let alone a National Championship contender... or even a quarterfinals contender? We don't even know who will be under center in September. I mean I think we have the parts to make a run but I doubt I'll be booking a hotel in Frisco any time soon even with the free cancellation. I think Hero's poll is generous. The coaches poll is lol. MVC is absolutely the strongest preseason conference to me
(05-28-2020 08:17 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote: [ -> ]a lot of confidence on here but if we all put the purple koolaid down for just a second, and acknowledge that we all know that the Dukes are the best...
What makes anybody think we have a top 5 team let alone a National Championship contender... or even a quarterfinals contender? We don't even know who will be under center in September. I mean I think we have the parts to make a run but I doubt I'll be booking a hotel in Frisco any time soon even with the free cancellation. I think Hero's poll is generous. The coaches poll is lol. MVC is absolutely the strongest preseason conference to me
The DL has the capability to be as good as last year. Greene and Adeeb in the middle are only going to be better in the middle forcing teams to double inside instead of the ends like last year. Green was good for his first year plus Ukwu will be back who was having a great preseason until he got hurt. Plus we have the temple transfer who sat out last year and a number of promising recruits. Amos, Davis, Que Reid all played great last year and will be back this year. Corners were nothing spectacular last year so it will probably be much of the same this year. We also added the UMASS transfer. Biggest question marks are LBs but we have players with significant playing time plus one of the biggest recruits from last year in Julio Ayamel
On offense really the only question mark is the QB spot but both Gage and Cole are more than capable especially in the second year of Cignetti and Montegomery's system. Look at what one year did for dinucci. The OL returns 4 of 5 starters plus a transfer at center and numerous backups including Kidwell who has been talked about for 2 years now. Its finally the second year with the same OL coach so as a unit they will also improve. Plenty of options at TE. The RB room doesnt even need to be mentioned. The Duke wide receiver looks very promising. We still have Dean who wasnt mentioned much last year with the addition of Polk but showed talent in 2018. Teams are going to load the box to stop the run so we dont need superstar receivers, just guys who can catch the ball. They will most likely be facing a lot of single coverage or man to man and if teams do play coverage than we'll see alot of ground and pound.
(05-28-2020 08:43 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020 08:17 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote: [ -> ]a lot of confidence on here but if we all put the purple koolaid down for just a second, and acknowledge that we all know that the Dukes are the best...
What makes anybody think we have a top 5 team let alone a National Championship contender... or even a quarterfinals contender? We don't even know who will be under center in September. I mean I think we have the parts to make a run but I doubt I'll be booking a hotel in Frisco any time soon even with the free cancellation. I think Hero's poll is generous. The coaches poll is lol. MVC is absolutely the strongest preseason conference to me
The DL has the capability to be as good as last year. Greene and Adeeb in the middle are only going to be better in the middle forcing teams to double inside instead of the ends like last year. Green was good for his first year plus Ukwu will be back who was having a great preseason until he got hurt. Plus we have the temple transfer who sat out last year and a number of promising recruits. Amos, Davis, Que Reid all played great last year and will be back this year. Corners were nothing spectacular last year so it will probably be much of the same this year. We also added the UMASS transfer. Biggest question marks are LBs but we have players with significant playing time plus one of the biggest recruits from last year in Julio Ayamel
On offense really the only question mark is the QB spot but both Gage and Cole are more than capable especially in the second year of Cignetti and Montegomery's system. Look at what one year did for dinucci. The OL returns 4 of 5 starters plus a transfer at center and numerous backups including Kidwell who has been talked about for 2 years now. Its finally the second year with the same OL coach so as a unit they will also improve. Plenty of options at TE. The RB room doesnt even need to be mentioned. The Duke wide receiver looks very promising. We still have Dean who wasnt mentioned much last year with the addition of Polk but showed talent in 2018. Teams are going to load the box to stop the run so we dont need superstar receivers, just guys who can catch the ball. They will most likely be facing a lot of single coverage or man to man and if teams do play coverage than we'll see alot of ground and pound.
Reading that got me really hyped up for the season. Can’t wait
(05-28-2020 08:43 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020 08:17 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote: [ -> ]a lot of confidence on here but if we all put the purple koolaid down for just a second, and acknowledge that we all know that the Dukes are the best...
What makes anybody think we have a top 5 team let alone a National Championship contender... or even a quarterfinals contender? We don't even know who will be under center in September. I mean I think we have the parts to make a run but I doubt I'll be booking a hotel in Frisco any time soon even with the free cancellation. I think Hero's poll is generous. The coaches poll is lol. MVC is absolutely the strongest preseason conference to me
The DL has the capability to be as good as last year. Greene and Adeeb in the middle are only going to be better in the middle forcing teams to double inside instead of the ends like last year. Green was good for his first year plus Ukwu will be back who was having a great preseason until he got hurt. Plus we have the temple transfer who sat out last year and a number of promising recruits. Amos, Davis, Que Reid all played great last year and will be back this year. Corners were nothing spectacular last year so it will probably be much of the same this year. We also added the UMASS transfer. Biggest question marks are LBs but we have players with significant playing time plus one of the biggest recruits from last year in Julio Ayamel
On offense really the only question mark is the QB spot but both Gage and Cole are more than capable especially in the second year of Cignetti and Montegomery's system. Look at what one year did for dinucci. The OL returns 4 of 5 starters plus a transfer at center and numerous backups including Kidwell who has been talked about for 2 years now. Its finally the second year with the same OL coach so as a unit they will also improve. Plenty of options at TE. The RB room doesnt even need to be mentioned. The Duke wide receiver looks very promising. We still have Dean who wasnt mentioned much last year with the addition of Polk but showed talent in 2018. Teams are going to load the box to stop the run so we dont need superstar receivers, just guys who can catch the ball. They will most likely be facing a lot of single coverage or man to man and if teams do play coverage than we'll see alot of ground and pound.
Time will surely tell about the coaching staff... but I guess I give Dinucci more credit for developing as a player based on what he took on in the offseason to improve vs what he learned from our new coaching staff. Hopefully the rising QBs were taking good notes. Ben's experience far surpasses anyone we have on the roster now but hoping they can step in and pick up with Ben left off.
(05-28-2020 08:17 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote: [ -> ]a lot of confidence on here but if we all put the purple koolaid down for just a second, and acknowledge that we all know that the Dukes are the best...
What makes anybody think we have a top 5 team let alone a National Championship contender... or even a quarterfinals contender? We don't even know who will be under center in September. I mean I think we have the parts to make a run but I doubt I'll be booking a hotel in Frisco any time soon even with the free cancellation. I think Hero's poll is generous. The coaches poll is lol. MVC is absolutely the strongest preseason conference to me
first off, i don't really care. it's not a big deal where you start, only where you finish. This is all just for discussion purposes.
i don't have a problem with us at 5. sounds about right to me. Because of the uncertainty at QB. if that resolves itself, we will be back in Frisco becasue we are loaded everywhere else once again and our RB committee is just ridiculous. possibly 3 NFL backs in that group.
the issue i have is the top 3 being MVC. that's totally based on NDSU bumping them up.
let me ask this, if one agrees that NDSU and JMU have basically been even the last few years, then why are MVC teams given a bump for playing NDSU "close" but CAA teams like Villanova are not given a similar bump for playing JMU close?
We have not lost to any MVC team except NDSU. In fact, we haven't been challenged in any of them. They were all over before halftime.
Both or our losses to NDSU were 1 play games. So if you are going to 'overrate' the other MVC teams just because they have NDSU on the schedule and play them "tough", i would expect a similar status for CAA teams that challenge us. Yet, that doesn't happen.
year after year the MVC teams seem to be given the benefit of the hype, over other schools in other conferences.
We'll see how it plays out. but i'd bet these MVC teams will disappoint and some CAA and Big Sky teams will prove better than the preseason hype. as usually happens.
The MVFC gets the benefit of the doubt nationally because:
1) They win in the playoffs consistently. They routinely have champions, runner ups, semifinalists and quarterfinalists. Multiple. Every year for at least the 2010s decade. There's no disputing they're the best playoff conference in FCS for the past 10 seasons.
2) They tend to perform better overall out of conference and also tend to schedule more challenging OOC opponents. They also beat their FBS opponents at least a bit more often (I admittedly haven't looked up the comparative numbers but i'm going off of memory here). You could make an argument there's better east coast based FBS teams then midwest and I would agree. That results in a greater gap in talent in these match ups and fewer upsets.
3) The CAA has a bad habit of getting a team into the top 10 rankings and then that team immediately loses and can't stay high nationally with any consistency. Last year was a perfect example. Our middle and low end teams are so good that they're occasionally upsetting our top teams. This leads to an unclear top 4 year in and year out. The MVFC top 4 rarely lose to teams outside of that top 1/3 of their conference. They consistently beat the valley teams they're "supposed to beat".
Just look at the past 5 years of FCS playoff play. How many QF, SF, Runner up and Champions does the MVFC have?
Now how many does the CAA have? Case closed. The CAA is good and was the best of the 2000s decade, but we did collectively drop off SOME in the 2010s. The prevalence of FBS programs in the east coast poaching talent doesn't help.
(05-28-2020 09:49 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020 08:17 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote: [ -> ]a lot of confidence on here but if we all put the purple koolaid down for just a second, and acknowledge that we all know that the Dukes are the best...
What makes anybody think we have a top 5 team let alone a National Championship contender... or even a quarterfinals contender? We don't even know who will be under center in September. I mean I think we have the parts to make a run but I doubt I'll be booking a hotel in Frisco any time soon even with the free cancellation. I think Hero's poll is generous. The coaches poll is lol. MVC is absolutely the strongest preseason conference to me
first off, i don't really care. it's not a big deal where you start, only where you finish. This is all just for discussion purposes.
i don't have a problem with us at 5. sounds about right to me. Because of the uncertainty at QB. if that resolves itself, we will be back in Frisco becasue we are loaded everywhere else once again and our RB committee is just ridiculous. possibly 3 NFL backs in that group.
the issue i have is the top 3 being MVC. that's totally based on NDSU bumping them up.
let me ask this, if one agrees that NDSU and JMU have basically been even the last few years, then why are MVC teams given a bump for playing NDSU "close" but CAA teams like Villanova are not given a similar bump for playing JMU close?
We have not lost to any MVC team except NDSU. In fact, we haven't been challenged in any of them. They were all over before halftime.
Both or our losses to NDSU were 1 play games. So if you are going to 'overrate' the other MVC teams just because they have NDSU on the schedule and play them "tough", i would expect a similar status for CAA teams that challenge us. Yet, that doesn't happen.
year after year the MVC teams seem to be given the benefit of the hype, over other schools in other conferences.
We'll see how it plays out. but i'd bet these MVC teams will disappoint and some CAA and Big Sky teams will prove better than the preseason hype. as usually happens.
I think we're all screwed because of the year where they put 6 CAA teams in the playoffs and we all collectively sh!t the bed in the first two rounds aside from Maine. If the MVFC or Big Fluffy have a similar playoff tumble we'll be back to top dog.
(05-28-2020 08:43 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020 08:17 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote: [ -> ]a lot of confidence on here but if we all put the purple koolaid down for just a second, and acknowledge that we all know that the Dukes are the best...
What makes anybody think we have a top 5 team let alone a National Championship contender... or even a quarterfinals contender? We don't even know who will be under center in September. I mean I think we have the parts to make a run but I doubt I'll be booking a hotel in Frisco any time soon even with the free cancellation. I think Hero's poll is generous. The coaches poll is lol. MVC is absolutely the strongest preseason conference to me
The DL has the capability to be as good as last year. Greene and Adeeb in the middle are only going to be better in the middle forcing teams to double inside instead of the ends like last year. Green was good for his first year plus Ukwu will be back who was having a great preseason until he got hurt. Plus we have the temple transfer who sat out last year and a number of promising recruits. Amos, Davis, Que Reid all played great last year and will be back this year. Corners were nothing spectacular last year so it will probably be much of the same this year. We also added the UMASS transfer. Biggest question marks are LBs but we have players with significant playing time plus one of the biggest recruits from last year in Julio Ayamel
On offense really the only question mark is the QB spot but both Gage and Cole are more than capable especially in the second year of Cignetti and Montegomery's system. Look at what one year did for dinucci. The OL returns 4 of 5 starters plus a transfer at center and numerous backups including Kidwell who has been talked about for 2 years now. Its finally the second year with the same OL coach so as a unit they will also improve. Plenty of options at TE. The RB room doesnt even need to be mentioned. The Duke wide receiver looks very promising. We still have Dean who wasnt mentioned much last year with the addition of Polk but showed talent in 2018. Teams are going to load the box to stop the run so we dont need superstar receivers, just guys who can catch the ball. They will most likely be facing a lot of single coverage or man to man and if teams do play coverage than we'll see alot of ground and pound.
Good analysis Fishing. Couple minor points:
Colclough (the Temple transfer at DE) played last yr:
https://jmusports.com/sports/football/ro...ough/16205
Return 3 of 5 starters at OL. Graduated a pair of 3 yr starters in RG Jahee Jackson & OC Mac Patrick (1st team All CAA). Or you could say return 4 of 6 starters, as both Gillespie and Bethea rotated at LT.
Would add in addition to at WR returning Brown (returning starter) & have have all three 2 deepers returning (Dean, Ravenel, and Adu). Also the Duke Gr transfer who started for them and the VMI transfer Thornton who had over 1k receiving yds 2018 (if you have over 1k receiving yds for VMI you must be good).
Edit: I updated the below. Since last update in Feb updated #s and added the UNC TE transfer.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-892432-post-16...id16613661
Coming into the season I'm not quite as optimistic as 2017 and last year, but am more so than 2018.
SDSU and Sac State in Top 4? Lol
(05-28-2020 08:43 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020 08:17 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote: [ -> ]a lot of confidence on here but if we all put the purple koolaid down for just a second, and acknowledge that we all know that the Dukes are the best...
What makes anybody think we have a top 5 team let alone a National Championship contender... or even a quarterfinals contender? We don't even know who will be under center in September. I mean I think we have the parts to make a run but I doubt I'll be booking a hotel in Frisco any time soon even with the free cancellation. I think Hero's poll is generous. The coaches poll is lol. MVC is absolutely the strongest preseason conference to me
The DL has the capability to be as good as last year. Greene and Adeeb in the middle are only going to be better in the middle forcing teams to double inside instead of the ends like last year. Green was good for his first year plus Ukwu will be back who was having a great preseason until he got hurt. Plus we have the temple transfer who sat out last year and a number of promising recruits. Amos, Davis, Que Reid all played great last year and will be back this year. Corners were nothing spectacular last year so it will probably be much of the same this year. We also added the UMASS transfer. Biggest question marks are LBs but we have players with significant playing time plus one of the biggest recruits from last year in Julio Ayamel
On offense really the only question mark is the QB spot but both Gage and Cole are more than capable especially in the second year of Cignetti and Montegomery's system. Look at what one year did for dinucci. The OL returns 4 of 5 starters plus a transfer at center and numerous backups including Kidwell who has been talked about for 2 years now. Its finally the second year with the same OL coach so as a unit they will also improve. Plenty of options at TE. The RB room doesnt even need to be mentioned. The Duke wide receiver looks very promising. We still have Dean who wasnt mentioned much last year with the addition of Polk but showed talent in 2018. Teams are going to load the box to stop the run so we dont need superstar receivers, just guys who can catch the ball. They will most likely be facing a lot of single coverage or man to man and if teams do play coverage than we'll see alot of ground and pound.
the UMass transfer looks like an absolute beast. I'm expecting big things out of him. and to be a game changer on D.
Don't forget Kris Thornton, the WR transfer from VMI who had to sit for the 2019 season. He was very productive in 2018 for the Keydets, and could be a key piece of the offense.