CSNbbs

(08-10-2020 04:44 PM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-10-2020 04:32 PM)MTBuc Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone want to speculate the likelihood that even basketball gets played in November? I’d say it’s somewhere around 0%.

If there is not football there will be no basketball. Book it.

While that's probably the way it will fall out, it shouldn't, and doesn't, have to be that way. A good, solid, 3-4 weeks of everybody "behaving" would quickly get us to where we need to be to have this under control. But we already have proven that that ain't gonna happen. It's the age-old story of humans being short-sighted and unable to submit to/accept delayed gratification. We are SLOOOOOW learners - with a short memory to boot.

(08-11-2020 04:08 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]A good, solid, 3-4 weeks of everybody "behaving" would quickly get us to where we need to be to have this under control. But we already have proven that that ain't gonna happen.

No it wouldnt. This is something politicians say to us to make it seem like it is our fault that a virus is spreading. The quicker we accept we have very little control over this, the quicker we can just live with it and go back to normal.

Has anyone heard how the TN state schools like ETSU, APSU, TENN TECH , etc are going to handle the scholarships of players if football is cancelled for this year?

(08-11-2020 07:09 AM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Has anyone heard how the TN state schools like ETSU, APSU, TENN TECH , etc are going to handle the scholarships of players if football is cancelled for this year?

Money wise or eligibility? I think the NCAA has already said they will get another year of eligibility if the season is cancelled.

(08-11-2020 07:48 AM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 07:09 AM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Has anyone heard how the TN state schools like ETSU, APSU, TENN TECH , etc are going to handle the scholarships of players if football is cancelled for this year?

Money wise or eligibility? I think the NCAA has already said they will get another year of eligibility if the season is cancelled.

I meant money. Will a full scholarship player still get tuition, food, etc paid for throughout the next year?

(08-11-2020 08:06 AM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 07:48 AM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 07:09 AM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Has anyone heard how the TN state schools like ETSU, APSU, TENN TECH , etc are going to handle the scholarships of players if football is cancelled for this year?

Money wise or eligibility? I think the NCAA has already said they will get another year of eligibility if the season is cancelled.

I meant money. Will a full scholarship player still get tuition, food, etc paid for throughout the next year?

I'm guessing its up to the school and donors to figure out how to get the money.

(08-11-2020 08:13 AM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 08:06 AM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 07:48 AM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 07:09 AM)bucfan81 Wrote: [ -> ]Has anyone heard how the TN state schools like ETSU, APSU, TENN TECH , etc are going to handle the scholarships of players if football is cancelled for this year?

Money wise or eligibility? I think the NCAA has already said they will get another year of eligibility if the season is cancelled.

I meant money. Will a full scholarship player still get tuition, food, etc paid for throughout the next year?

I'm guessing its up to the school and donors to figure out how to get the money.

Money, not COVID-19, is going to end up determining a bunch of things with relation to college athletics over the next several years, obviously. How to pay the bills will take charge of this thing quickly. My guess is that even Alabama’s athletic budget is covered mostly on a year-to-year basis. Then, the little guys — WOW. How to recover from all this financially is something most administrators and athletic directors dread facing and dealing with, along with all the other financial fallout facing each institution.

Serious question. Has anyone in the ETSU administration talked personally with the ETSU athletes to gauge their feelings on the situation? My guess is no.

(08-11-2020 08:05 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote: [ -> ]Serious question. Has anyone in the ETSU administration talked personally with the ETSU athletes to gauge their feelings on the situation? My guess is no.

Certainly seemed to be the case in the Big 10 today.

(08-11-2020 06:56 AM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 04:08 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]A good, solid, 3-4 weeks of everybody "behaving" would quickly get us to where we need to be to have this under control. But we already have proven that that ain't gonna happen.

No it wouldnt. This is something politicians say to us to make it seem like it is our fault that a virus is spreading. The quicker we accept we have very little control over this, the quicker we can just live with it and go back to normal.

Ummmm.............I assume you're kidding for some reason? But why?

(08-11-2020 11:00 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 06:56 AM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 04:08 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]A good, solid, 3-4 weeks of everybody "behaving" would quickly get us to where we need to be to have this under control. But we already have proven that that ain't gonna happen.

No it wouldnt. This is something politicians say to us to make it seem like it is our fault that a virus is spreading. The quicker we accept we have very little control over this, the quicker we can just live with it and go back to normal.

Ummmm.............I assume you're kidding for some reason? But why?

Why would I be kidding?

(08-12-2020 12:39 PM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 11:00 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 06:56 AM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 04:08 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]A good, solid, 3-4 weeks of everybody "behaving" would quickly get us to where we need to be to have this under control. But we already have proven that that ain't gonna happen.

No it wouldnt. This is something politicians say to us to make it seem like it is our fault that a virus is spreading. The quicker we accept we have very little control over this, the quicker we can just live with it and go back to normal.

Ummmm.............I assume you're kidding for some reason? But why?

Why would I be kidding?

Well, I don't know. We certainly shouldn't be kidding about something that's brought so much misery and death. I guess the other (main) alternative is that you actually think that - and I was trying to be conciliatory and give you the benefit of the doubt. Since what you wrote doesn't comport with the facts, well, I was giving you an opportunity to not embarrass yourself. Perhaps I failed.
I would *hope* you're not one of those "science deniers" who have cropped up over this issue. That would be unfortunate.

(08-12-2020 04:54 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2020 12:39 PM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 11:00 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 06:56 AM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 04:08 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]A good, solid, 3-4 weeks of everybody "behaving" would quickly get us to where we need to be to have this under control. But we already have proven that that ain't gonna happen.

No it wouldnt. This is something politicians say to us to make it seem like it is our fault that a virus is spreading. The quicker we accept we have very little control over this, the quicker we can just live with it and go back to normal.

Ummmm.............I assume you're kidding for some reason? But why?

Why would I be kidding?

Well, I don't know. We certainly shouldn't be kidding about something that's brought so much misery and death. I guess the other (main) alternative is that you actually think that - and I was trying to be conciliatory and give you the benefit of the doubt. Since what you wrote doesn't comport with the facts, well, I was giving you an opportunity to not embarrass yourself. Perhaps I failed.
I would *hope* you're not one of those "science deniers" who have cropped up over this issue. That would be unfortunate.

Just like everything now people want to put you in one camp or the other; “either you believe science or not”. That is such a ridiculous statement. Trying to insinuate that there is a consensus on “science” is something dumb people say.

COVID-19 is a real virus. The response has been worse. Healthy people should not be wearing masks and locked in there homes.

Here is how dumb things are. You are required to wear a mask when you enter a restaurant but once you sit down you can take it off. That is truly some science right there.

(08-12-2020 05:33 PM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2020 04:54 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2020 12:39 PM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 11:00 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 06:56 AM)brock20 Wrote: [ -> ]No it wouldnt. This is something politicians say to us to make it seem like it is our fault that a virus is spreading. The quicker we accept we have very little control over this, the quicker we can just live with it and go back to normal.

Ummmm.............I assume you're kidding for some reason? But why?

Why would I be kidding?

Well, I don't know. We certainly shouldn't be kidding about something that's brought so much misery and death. I guess the other (main) alternative is that you actually think that - and I was trying to be conciliatory and give you the benefit of the doubt. Since what you wrote doesn't comport with the facts, well, I was giving you an opportunity to not embarrass yourself. Perhaps I failed.
I would *hope* you're not one of those "science deniers" who have cropped up over this issue. That would be unfortunate.

Just like everything now people want to put you in one camp or the other; “either you believe science or not”. That is such a ridiculous statement. Trying to insinuate that there is a consensus on “science” is something dumb people say.

COVID-19 is a real virus. The response has been worse. Healthy people should not be wearing masks and locked in there homes.

Here is how dumb things are. You are required to wear a mask when you enter a restaurant but once you sit down you can take it off. That is truly some science right there.

I don't think most people are "want[ing] to put [us] in one camp or the other". That's not what I'm hearing (from most). Most thinking and aware folks realize there's a lot of nuance. Sure, some don't and thus take rigid reactionary stances. That said..........true enough that there wasn't, especially early on, a consensus on the observations and directives from some of the governing bodies that should have done quite a bit better job of it than they did. The WHO being the prime example. Some inexcusable failures there. CDC was better but also fell short. (But they were to some extent hampered politically.)

HOWEVER..............the science has been doggedly pursuing the truth, in all it's seemingly infinite twists and turns, and the scientists and medical researchers have, to almost superhuman effort, tried to find out and disseminate that evolving info. Since I read those journals, I've been more keenly aware of all these twists and turns than I guess John Q. Public and Joe Sports Fan. Indeed, *some* of the science has been contradictory - again especially early on. But a lot of it has not been, especially in the last 2 months or so. There's just really no *realistic* disagreement that a) wearing masks helps stop the spread - very especially the proper masks; and b) we, as good citizens, just need to nearly stop gathering around in ways that will cause the spread.

It's really fairly simple epidemiology. When the R number is above 1, it spreads; when it's above 1.2-1.3 or so, it spreads quite a bit more rapidly. When it drops below 1, the spread slows down. Below ~.8, it slows down much quicker. If we could get it down to .4 or .5, then the problem is so close to being solved that in 3 weeks, we're back in business - with adaptations, of course. When NY and NJ and CT and MA were having wildfire spread, as soon as they got it down to below .8, things rather quickly subsided, in terms of the critical, crazy stuff that was going on. Same for Hong Kong, S. Korea, New Zealand, etc., etc., etc., etc. THE MITIGATION EFFORTS WORK. WE **DO** HAVE CONTROL OVER THIS. But it requires us, collectively, to be responsible and just not spread it. Yes, there is going to be unavoidable spread in situations like grocery stores, doctors offices, hospitals, nursing homes, etc. But beyond that.................it's controllable. We should NOT be going into restaurants to dine - and while outdoors is much better, there's still at least some danger there. (And yes, your mask-in-a-restaurant example is crazy. No real scientists think that solves anything. Not sure where you got that idea except watching stuff on tv where restaurants were trying to just stay open.) It's kinda like ripping off a band-aid: slow and steady is usually worse than just ripping it clean. There's really just not a lot of debate about that among "the experts". Sure, there are some - but those are not the ones doing the research, writing the journal articles and being where the rubber meets the road. If we "go back to normal", THENNNN WE NO LONGER HAVE CONTROL OVER IT. IT **IS** OUR FAULT THE VIRUS IS SPREADING. Do you think it crawls down your nose, down to your shoes, then goes for a walk looking for another victim? Yes, it would be uncomfortable and troublesome, and there would be some economic loss.............but we just can't go on in limbo like this forever. Too many more would die. And yes, that'll probably happen anyway, because we DON'T behave. But make no mistake: we *DO* have the power to stop it - should we have the will.

[See upcoming article linked in a following post.]

Helen Branswell is a very-well-respected science writer who's been all over this from the beginning. She knows what she's talking about. While none of this is news to me.........if by chance some of it is to any reader out there, please pay attention:

We're running out of time to avoid a very bleak winter

I urge you all who care about these issues to read that, but for those who can't be bothered.......at least see these small examples:

"But in this summer of America’s failed Covid-19 response, the SARS-CoV-2 virus is widespread across the country, and pandemic-weary Americans seem more interested in resuming pre-Covid lifestyles than in suppressing the virus to the point where schools can be reopened, and stay open, and restaurants, movie theaters, and gyms can function with some restrictions."

“We seem to be choosing leisure activities now over children’s safety in a month’s time. And I cannot understand that tradeoff.”

"Epidemiologist Michael Mina despairs that an important chance to wrestle the virus under control is being lost, as Americans ignore the realities of the pandemic in favor of trying to resume pre-Covid life.........
“We just continue to squander every bit of opportunity we get with this epidemic to get it under control’.........

"Driving back transmission would require people to continue to make sacrifices, to accept the fact that life post-Covid cannot proceed as normal, not while so many people remain vulnerable to the virus. Instead, people are giddily throwing off the shackles of coronavirus suppression efforts, seemingly convinced that a few weeks of sacrifice during the spring was a one-time solution."

Another way to think of this is the old adage, "Pay me now or pay me later." Virtually no chance we'll not be having more shutdowns in the future - even if geographically scattered. Woudn't it be so much better to solve it now rather than drag it out and have tens of thousands more die?

(08-12-2020 09:44 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]Helen Branswell is a very-well-respected science writer who's been all over this from the beginning. She knows what she's talking about. While none of this is news to me.........if by chance some of it is to any reader out there, please pay attention:

We're running out of time to avoid a very bleak winter

I urge you all who care about these issues to read that, but for those who can't be bothered.......at least see these small examples:

"But in this summer of America’s failed Covid-19 response, the SARS-CoV-2 virus is widespread across the country, and pandemic-weary Americans seem more interested in resuming pre-Covid lifestyles than in suppressing the virus to the point where schools can be reopened, and stay open, and restaurants, movie theaters, and gyms can function with some restrictions."

“We seem to be choosing leisure activities now over children’s safety in a month’s time. And I cannot understand that tradeoff.”

"Epidemiologist Michael Mina despairs that an important chance to wrestle the virus under control is being lost, as Americans ignore the realities of the pandemic in favor of trying to resume pre-Covid life.........
“We just continue to squander every bit of opportunity we get with this epidemic to get it under control’.........

"Driving back transmission would require people to continue to make sacrifices, to accept the fact that life post-Covid cannot proceed as normal, not while so many people remain vulnerable to the virus. Instead, people are giddily throwing off the shackles of coronavirus suppression efforts, seemingly convinced that a few weeks of sacrifice during the spring was a one-time solution."

Another way to think of this is the old adage, "Pay me now or pay me later." Virtually no chance we'll not be having more shutdowns in the future - even if geographically scattered. Woudn't it be so much better to solve it now rather than drag it out and have tens of thousands more die?

Political correctness and science have had a head on collision with this. If science can tell us how to behave in order to get this under control and keep it under control, then why do we allow political correctness to block the true messages coming from the scientific and health care people too often? Some want draconian measures, forcing people to behave. Others want no measures thus leaving people behave any way they want. I have yet to see a single report of where and among what specific behaviors the spread is continuing. Surely science knows much better now who is responsible for the continued spread. COME CLEAN AND TELL AMERICA WHO THESE IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE ARE AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO KEEP THIS THING SPREADING. Bottom line— why aren’t specific, risky peoples’ intentional behaviors being called out, exposed, ridiculed, shamed, and broadcast over the media so that cooperative and responsible people can have a better handle on who to avoid, where not to go, and what not to do?

(08-11-2020 04:08 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]While that's probably the way it will fall out, it shouldn't, and doesn't, have to be that way. A good, solid, 3-4 weeks of everybody "behaving" would quickly get us to where we need to be to have this under control. But we already have proven that that ain't gonna happen. It's the age-old story of humans being short-sighted and unable to submit to/accept delayed gratification. We are SLOOOOOW learners - with a short memory to boot.

We already shut down the whole country once, and for a lot longer than 3-4 weeks. During that time, we got about as much "behaving" as we are going to get.

Young people are more likely to die from the flu than they are to die from coronavirus. Yet, we aren't shutting down schools or cancelling sports to protect them from influenza.

Young people are also more likely to commit suicide than to die from COVID-19, and we've seen that number rise dramatically as a result of the lockdowns. Nobody seems too worried about that.

We ought to be letting our young people go to school, go to camp, play sports, attend academic competitions, go to church, socialize with their friends, have their weddings, have their graduations, attend their proms, go to the gym, and keep their jobs. In the meantime, us old folk can wear our masks, social distance ourselves, stay away from crowds, and take all of the protective measures we see fit.

(08-13-2020 08:20 AM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ]Political correctness and science have had a head on collision with this. If science can tell us how to behave in order to get this under control and keep it under control, then why do we allow political correctness to block the true messages coming from the scientific and health care people too often? Some want draconian measures, forcing people to behave. Others want no measures thus leaving people behave any way they want. I have yet to see a single report of where and among what specific behaviors the spread is continuing. Surely science knows much better now who is responsible for the continued spread. COME CLEAN AND TELL AMERICA WHO THESE IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE ARE AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO KEEP THIS THING SPREADING. Bottom line— why aren’t specific, risky peoples’ intentional behaviors being called out, exposed, ridiculed, shamed, and broadcast over the media so that cooperative and responsible people can have a better handle on who to avoid, where not to go, and what not to do?

You are right that "political correctness" (of a sort) and science have had a head-on collision here. Why do we allow p.c. to block the true messages? Because of the fear certain people have of losing their jobs by going against "the grain" - and you all know what I'm talking about. Too many of our poplulace have sold out (traded in) their good sense and faith in science for a false version of reality.

But Buc66................it's SO hard to track down each and every person respondible for this spread because the incubation period is so wildly divergent - and so much longer than for colds and flu. With a mean incubation period of 5 days, and some (few) documented cases of as much as 18 days.............how're ya gonna nail that down? That's the crux of the difficulty in contact tracing - along with a little bit of resistance to even answering questions.
BUT..............that said............."specific, risky peoples’ intentional behaviors ARE being called out, exposed, ridiculed, shamed, and broadcast over the media". Examples are those "house parties" in LA and other places, that ridiculous lake party in AR, that ridiculous lake party in IA, scads of crowded beach scenes from everywhere, crowded bars, birthday parties, etc. Remember the huge transmission jump when spring breakers returned to wherever they came from? If you've missed all these massive numbers of exposes, then you simply haven't been paying attention. I can hardly believe you've missed all those filmed and widely-criticized examples. I've seen literally dozens myself.

(08-13-2020 10:52 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]Examples are those "house parties" in LA and other places, that ridiculous lake party in AR, that ridiculous lake party in IA, scads of crowded beach scenes from everywhere, crowded bars, birthday parties, etc. Remember the huge transmission jump when spring breakers returned to wherever they came from? If you've missed all these massive numbers of exposes, then you simply haven't been paying attention. I can hardly believe you've missed all those filmed and widely-criticized examples. I've seen literally dozens myself.

I feel like there may be other examples that arent listed, but why? What example of huge gatherings around the US are missing from your list?

Feel like we should rename this the Boomer Virus. Everyone who isnt a Boomer has to stay locked in their homes so that Boomers can feel slightly safer.

(08-13-2020 08:59 AM)Flippmb Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-11-2020 04:08 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote: [ -> ]While that's probably the way it will fall out, it shouldn't, and doesn't, have to be that way. A good, solid, 3-4 weeks of everybody "behaving" would quickly get us to where we need to be to have this under control. But we already have proven that that ain't gonna happen. It's the age-old story of humans being short-sighted and unable to submit to/accept delayed gratification. We are SLOOOOOW learners - with a short memory to boot.

We already shut down the whole country once, and for a lot longer than 3-4 weeks. During that time, we got about as much "behaving" as we are going to get.

*** Correct; which is part of what I wrote. HOWEVER.....that doesn't mean we don't have the power to stop it. We do - because other places in the world stopped it quickly when they learned what to do.

Young people are more likely to die from the flu than they are to die from coronavirus. Yet, we aren't shutting down schools or cancelling sports to protect them from influenza.

*** WHAT?!?! Your first statement is likely wrong. That was a poorly-researched and poorly-understood narrative VERY early in the crises, but it's probably not true. (We don't really know for sure.) They likely are in the same order of magnitude, however. In some places, when it's bad enough, we most certainly shut down schools (and postpone sports). One only look no further than our region back this past winter to see that. Many, many, many local schools shut down for varying periods of time due to the flu. BUT, the main reason is that the flu is not nearly as lethal as COVID. I can't believe you're trying to make that equilibration.

Young people are also more likely to commit suicide than to die from COVID-19, and we've seen that number rise dramatically as a result of the lockdowns. Nobody seems too worried about that.

*** Yes, there mostly definitely is worry about that. I've seen much ink about it, and initiatives to try and combat it. However, the *increase* is trivial compared to the number of people dying from this disease.

We ought to be letting our young people go to school, go to camp, play sports, attend academic competitions, go to church, socialize with their friends, have their weddings, have their graduations, attend their proms, go to the gym, and keep their jobs. In the meantime, us old folk can wear our masks, social distance ourselves, stay away from crowds, and take all of the protective measures we see fit.

*** Wrong (in general). These "kids" can, and will, bring their viruses back into homes where some of the older folks live, even if they themselves are not sick. I've seen this with my own eyes, and I suspect some of you have, too. "Kids" are probably the main vectors, because they're more likely to be infected and yet asymptomatic. Masks only slow down transmission. They do not stop it. The "6-ft. social distance" thing is a false mantra, but so many peeps don't yet grasp that. This is NOT your garden-variety flu. The extra-long incubation period, the very small size of this virus, the semi-mysterious asymptomatic presentations, and the significant variations in presentation in general make this a particularly difficult enemy.