CSNbbs

There are 9 P5 teams in and around Atlanta, GA - the recognized capital of college football. Six of those teams are in the SEC, 3 in the ACC. Over the last 30 years (i.e. since conference realignment really got started in 1991), All 3 ACC teams and 4 of the 6 SEC teams have won a national championship



OK, if you move the cut-off to 29 years ago, one ACC team drops off - fair enough. You want to dog Georgia Tech, be my guest. However, they aren't the real dogs here... it's the Dawgs!

Quote:Only two P5 teams in the area shown have NOT won a national championship since 1990. One of them is the University of South Carolina Gamecocks who, to be fair, hadn't even won a bowl game prior to 1994, so... baby steps.

The other Southeastern P5 without a championship trophy in the last 3 decades? The Georgia Bulldogs. In fact, they've only even played in the championship game once in that span, famously losing to Alabama on a 41-yard touchdown pass in overtime on 2nd down and 26... [see also ACCFootballRx - Bad Calls Marr 2018 CFP Final] Ugh-ah!

Like I said above, I'm not expecting any national championships out of South Carolina in my lifetime - they're just too new to success at this level. Georgia, on the other hand, is a different matter... and a huge enigma!

Q: Does Kirby Smart appear to have the Bulldogs headed in the right direction?
A: You'd have to say yes, if only because he got them to the CFP Final.

Q: Will Georgia win another championship any time soon?
A: That's much harder to say. It's almost like there's a cultural problem.

Think about it. When you think of Alabama or Auburn or FSU or Clemson, you think of great players making heroic plays - the QB delivering the pass under great pressure, or the receiver sacrificing his body to make the big catch, or the corner coming out of seemingly nowhere to make a critical interception. When I think of Georgia football, I think of a dominant program that tramples lesser teams... but I don't think of them making the big play in the big games.

Is it just me, or is that a fair assessment of the "problem" at UGA (mind you, a lot of schools would like to have "problems" like the Bulldogs!)

Georgia had the national championship won defending a 2nd and 26. A safety blew an assignment. There isn't a program problem, it's just a bad break.

I think Georgia will. It's all about timing. Is Clemson good? Of course - 2 national titles and 2 national runners-up in the last 5 years. Does it help they are the only game worth watching in the ACC? Sure does. Does it help that Florida St, Miami, and Virginia Tech have not had their best years simultaneously? Yup.

Will the SEC ever have a down era like the ACC has right now? Who knows. It's possible, especially if the population center shifts westward. Look at the B1G. For decades they were king. Its not a slouch conference by any means but definitely not in its prime.

(05-13-2020 09:40 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Georgia will. It's all about timing. Is Clemson good? Of course - 2 national titles and 2 national runners-up in the last 5 years. Does it help they are the only game worth watching in the ACC? Sure does. Does it help that Florida St, Miami, and Virginia Tech have not had their best years simultaneously? Yup.

Will the SEC ever have a down era like the ACC has right now? Who knows. It's possible, especially if the population center shifts westward. Look at the B1G. For decades they were king. Its not a slouch conference by any means but definitely not in its prime.

I think it's worth noting that basically every one of those ACC and SEC teams pictured in the map recruit players from the state of GA. As much as FL, it's a key producer of college football talent. You'd think the flagship school would've won it all at least once in the last 39 years...

(05-13-2020 10:08 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-13-2020 09:40 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Georgia will. It's all about timing. Is Clemson good? Of course - 2 national titles and 2 national runners-up in the last 5 years. Does it help they are the only game worth watching in the ACC? Sure does. Does it help that Florida St, Miami, and Virginia Tech have not had their best years simultaneously? Yup.

Will the SEC ever have a down era like the ACC has right now? Who knows. It's possible, especially if the population center shifts westward. Look at the B1G. For decades they were king. Its not a slouch conference by any means but definitely not in its prime.

I think it's worth noting that basically every one of those ACC and SEC teams pictured in the map recruit players from the state of GA. As much as FL, it's a key producer of college football talent. You'd think the flagship school would've won it all at least once in the last 39 years...

That's a good point. Same with Texas - they have 1 title in the last 50 years.

Using DFW as the "center," you got Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Arkansas, LSU, Texas, Texas A&M, TCU, Baylor, and Texas Tech. Still, the Longhorns should have a much stronger hold on local recruits than they do.

Meh. Ten years ago you could have written this about Clemson, and now Clemson has four finals and two titles and the rest of the ACC needs a telescope to see how far Clemson is ahead of them.

Take that group of 9, add some schools around the periphery like Miami, UNC, and NC St and you have one awesome conference.

Let's see how Kirby does when he has to recruit the team he plays with. Kirby did great with Richt's players. I don't anticipate Kirby doing as well with his own. And he no longer has free reign in the state since GT isn't recruiting 260 pound linemen and 180 pound running backs anymore.

The early returns suggest Kirby knows this and he's worried:

(05-13-2020 10:08 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-13-2020 09:40 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Georgia will. It's all about timing. Is Clemson good? Of course - 2 national titles and 2 national runners-up in the last 5 years. Does it help they are the only game worth watching in the ACC? Sure does. Does it help that Florida St, Miami, and Virginia Tech have not had their best years simultaneously? Yup.

Will the SEC ever have a down era like the ACC has right now? Who knows. It's possible, especially if the population center shifts westward. Look at the B1G. For decades they were king. Its not a slouch conference by any means but definitely not in its prime.

I think it's worth noting that basically every one of those ACC and SEC teams pictured in the map recruit players from the state of GA. As much as FL, it's a key producer of college football talent. You'd think the flagship school would've won it all at least once in the last 39 years...

Titles require breaks.
1990 Colorado won a title with a 5th down.

1996 Florida had to have a huge underdog Texas upset Nebraska in the Big 12 title game.

1998 Tennessee won and would have been there, but Virginia Tech played them when UCLA and Kansas St. lost on the last weekend.

2006 If they used 2011 theories, Michigan would have had a rematch against Ohio ST. instead of Florida getting a shot.

2007 LSU needed last weekend losses by Missouri and West Virginia to get the shot against Ohio ST.

2008 If they used 2009 rules, Texas would have played Florida instead of Oklahoma. If Texas had taken 2 seconds longer to score the go ahead touchdown against Texas Tech, they would have been unbeaten and played Florida.

2009 Texas was up 3-0 and inside the 1 when their QB got injured, hit on the same spot he was injured in a game vs. KSU 3 years earlier. The QB who took them to a 5-7 season the next year and set interception records had to come in cold. With a couple minor breaks, Texas probably has 3 titles in 5 years.

2010 Alabama's player gets sloppy on a return and instead of a TD and a huge lead before halftime, the Auburn player strips him right before the goal line. Otherwise, Auburn probably loses and TCU plays Oregon for the title.

2011 Alabama got a 2nd shot vs. LSU instead of Oklahoma St., whose lone loss was a close game the day after a plane crash killed some OSU fellow athletes and coaches.

With very minor breaks the other way, that 2006-2011 SEC run doesn't happen.

(05-13-2020 03:20 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]Titles require breaks.
1990 Colorado won a title with a 5th down.

A 5th down for a winning TD as time expired in regulation.
And they had a tie.
And they had a loss.
And they should have lost to Notre Dame but The Rocket had his game winning punt TD called back for clipping that didn't exist.

That's 3 losses, 1 tie, which got washed into 1 loss, 1 tie, 2 bogus wins.

Colorado in 1990 is the most undeserving "champion" of CFB maybe of all time. But don't take my word for it ... take Tom Osborne's. He played both teams and said GT was definitively the better one. After the spanking he receiving in a mostly gold Citrus Bowl that was the right conclusion.

(05-13-2020 03:25 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-13-2020 03:20 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]Titles require breaks.
1990 Colorado won a title with a 5th down.

A 5th down for a winning TD as time expired in regulation.
And they had a tie.
And they had a loss.
And they should have lost to Notre Dame but The Rocket had his game winning punt TD called back for clipping that didn't exist.

That's 3 losses, 1 tie, which got washed into 1 loss, 1 tie, 2 bogus wins.

Colorado in 1990 is the most undeserving "champion" of CFB maybe of all time. But don't take my word for it ... take Tom Osborne's. He played both teams and said GT was definitively the better one. After the spanking he receiving in a mostly gold Citrus Bowl that was the right conclusion.

To expand for those who don't remember, Colorado beat Missouri in a late season game after they failed on 4th down to score, but the confused refs gave them a 5th down on which they scored and converted a loss to a win. So they ended up 10-1-1. Had they been 9-2-1, Georgia Tech at 11-0-1 would have been an AP champ and not just coaches' poll champ.

Miami's great run may never have happened if Coach Fred Akers hadn't put a freshman who never did returns, back for a punt late in the 4th. Texas freshman fumbles. Georgia recovers. Georgia later takes the lead 10-9 scoring on a play with as flagrant a holding as you will ever see. So Miami got 2 breaks in that game. Had #2 Texas won, they would have been unbeaten and won the MNC had Miami still beat Nebraska. But odds are if Texas won, Nebraska wouldn't have been asleep at the switch vs. Miami and not needed a huge comeback to bring the game to 31-30, where Tom Osborne went for 2 and failed. He could have gone for 1 and won the MNC.

That year was a perfect example of how horrible the old system was. Nebraska and Texas had been comparing themselves to each other all year, but neither was focused in their bowl game as they didn't play each other.

(05-13-2020 09:06 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

Cool graphic, btw.

(05-13-2020 03:25 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-13-2020 03:20 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]Titles require breaks.
1990 Colorado won a title with a 5th down.

A 5th down for a winning TD as time expired in regulation.
And they had a tie.
And they had a loss.
And they should have lost to Notre Dame but The Rocket had his game winning punt TD called back for clipping that didn't exist.

That's 3 losses, 1 tie, which got washed into 1 loss, 1 tie, 2 bogus wins.

Colorado in 1990 is the most undeserving "champion" of CFB maybe of all time. But don't take my word for it ... take Tom Osborne's. He played both teams and said GT was definitively the better one. After the spanking he receiving in a mostly gold Citrus Bowl that was the right conclusion.

Ask a Washington fan about 1984, and you'll get a different answer...

(05-13-2020 03:20 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-13-2020 10:08 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-13-2020 09:40 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Georgia will. It's all about timing. Is Clemson good? Of course - 2 national titles and 2 national runners-up in the last 5 years. Does it help they are the only game worth watching in the ACC? Sure does. Does it help that Florida St, Miami, and Virginia Tech have not had their best years simultaneously? Yup.

Will the SEC ever have a down era like the ACC has right now? Who knows. It's possible, especially if the population center shifts westward. Look at the B1G. For decades they were king. Its not a slouch conference by any means but definitely not in its prime.

I think it's worth noting that basically every one of those ACC and SEC teams pictured in the map recruit players from the state of GA. As much as FL, it's a key producer of college football talent. You'd think the flagship school would've won it all at least once in the last 39 years...

Titles require breaks.
1990 Colorado won a title with a 5th down.

1996 Florida had to have a huge underdog Texas upset Nebraska in the Big 12 title game.

1998 Tennessee won and would have been there, but Virginia Tech played them when UCLA and Kansas St. lost on the last weekend.

2006 If they used 2011 theories, Michigan would have had a rematch against Ohio ST. instead of Florida getting a shot.

2007 LSU needed last weekend losses by Missouri and West Virginia to get the shot against Ohio ST.

2008 If they used 2009 rules, Texas would have played Florida instead of Oklahoma. If Texas had taken 2 seconds longer to score the go ahead touchdown against Texas Tech, they would have been unbeaten and played Florida.

2009 Texas was up 3-0 and inside the 1 when their QB got injured, hit on the same spot he was injured in a game vs. KSU 3 years earlier. The QB who took them to a 5-7 season the next year and set interception records had to come in cold. With a couple minor breaks, Texas probably has 3 titles in 5 years.

2010 Alabama's player gets sloppy on a return and instead of a TD and a huge lead before halftime, the Auburn player strips him right before the goal line. Otherwise, Auburn probably loses and TCU plays Oregon for the title.

2011 Alabama got a 2nd shot vs. LSU instead of Oklahoma St., whose lone loss was a close game the day after a plane crash killed some OSU fellow athletes and coaches.

With very minor breaks the other way, that 2006-2011 SEC run doesn't happen.

Good list. Also ‘97 Nebraska with the Flea Kicker at the buzzer in Missouri as well as ‘16 Clemson beat who Troy by 6 on a probably incorrect officiating call that was a 14-point swing.

Some years there’s one clearcut team above the rest. Other years there’s a subset of 2-6 teams who are indifferentiable and whoever emerges with the National Title comes down to catching breaks and whoever made the right play at the right time. Georgia’s been in that subset a few times.

So many things have to go right to win the whole thing.

(05-13-2020 03:20 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-13-2020 10:08 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-13-2020 09:40 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Georgia will. It's all about timing. Is Clemson good? Of course - 2 national titles and 2 national runners-up in the last 5 years. Does it help they are the only game worth watching in the ACC? Sure does. Does it help that Florida St, Miami, and Virginia Tech have not had their best years simultaneously? Yup.

Will the SEC ever have a down era like the ACC has right now? Who knows. It's possible, especially if the population center shifts westward. Look at the B1G. For decades they were king. Its not a slouch conference by any means but definitely not in its prime.

I think it's worth noting that basically every one of those ACC and SEC teams pictured in the map recruit players from the state of GA. As much as FL, it's a key producer of college football talent. You'd think the flagship school would've won it all at least once in the last 39 years...

Titles require breaks.
1990 Colorado won a title with a 5th down.

1996 Florida had to have a huge underdog Texas upset Nebraska in the Big 12 title game.

1998 Tennessee won and would have been there, but Virginia Tech played them when UCLA and Kansas St. lost on the last weekend.

2006 If they used 2011 theories, Michigan would have had a rematch against Ohio ST. instead of Florida getting a shot.

2007 LSU needed last weekend losses by Missouri and West Virginia to get the shot against Ohio ST.

2008 If they used 2009 rules, Texas would have played Florida instead of Oklahoma. If Texas had taken 2 seconds longer to score the go ahead touchdown against Texas Tech, they would have been unbeaten and played Florida.

2009 Texas was up 3-0 and inside the 1 when their QB got injured, hit on the same spot he was injured in a game vs. KSU 3 years earlier. The QB who took them to a 5-7 season the next year and set interception records had to come in cold. With a couple minor breaks, Texas probably has 3 titles in 5 years.

2010 Alabama's player gets sloppy on a return and instead of a TD and a huge lead before halftime, the Auburn player strips him right before the goal line. Otherwise, Auburn probably loses and TCU plays Oregon for the title.

2011 Alabama got a 2nd shot vs. LSU instead of Oklahoma St., whose lone loss was a close game the day after a plane crash killed some OSU fellow athletes and coaches.

With very minor breaks the other way, that 2006-2011 SEC run doesn't happen.

It is what it is. Otherwise if "Ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merrier Christmas." And if the parameter is set say at 1980 instead of 1991 then Georgia is included since Herschel won them one.

The bigger point in this story is the talent stream within about a 150 mile radius of Atlanta. It would be more interesting to see the schools who have won a National Championship since 1991 that didn't fall within that radius and check their rosters for players who came from within it.

I think a better measure would be top 3 to top 5 measures. That takes out most of the good breaks situation to win an MNC.
Going back to 1985, the year after BYU's fluky championship, these are the schools with 2 or more top 5 in the AP poll. 11 other schools have 1, with only Georgia Tech (#1 coaches), Oklahoma St. and Virginia Tech having top 3 finishes.
School #top 3, # top 4, #top 5
1 Florida St. 10 14 15
1 Ohio St. 8 11 15
3 Oklahoma 7 8 12
4 Miami 10 10 11
4 Alabama 8 9 11
6 Florida 6 7 10
7 USC 6 8 8
8 Nebraska 5 5 6
8 N. Dame 3 5 6
8 LSU 5 5 6
8 Oregon 4 5 6
8 Penn St. 5 5 5
8 Texas 2 3 5
8 Michigan 2 3 5
8 Tennessee 2 4 5
8 Clemson 4 5 5
8 Georgia 3 4 5
18 Auburn 3 4 4
19 Colorado 2 3 4
20 Wash. 2 3 4
21 TCU 2 2 2
21 Utah 1 2 2
21 Stanford 1 2 2
21 Mich. St. 1 1 2
21 Ariz. St. 0 2 2
21 Boise 0 1 2
21 Missouri 0 1 2
21 W. Virginia 0 0 2

(05-13-2020 09:06 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]There are 9 P5 teams in and around Atlanta, GA - the recognized capital of college football. Six of those teams are in the SEC, 3 in the ACC. Over the last 30 years (i.e. since conference realignment really got started in 1991), All 3 ACC teams and 4 of the 6 SEC teams have won a national championship



OK, if you move the cut-off to 29 years ago, one ACC team drops off - fair enough. You want to dog Georgia Tech, be my guest. However, they aren't the real dogs here... it's the Dawgs!

Quote:Only two P5 teams in the area shown have NOT won a national championship since 1990. One of them is the University of South Carolina Gamecocks who, to be fair, hadn't even won a bowl game prior to 1994, so... baby steps.

The other Southeastern P5 without a championship trophy in the last 3 decades? The Georgia Bulldogs. In fact, they've only even played in the championship game once in that span, famously losing to Alabama on a 41-yard touchdown pass in overtime on 2nd down and 26... [see also ACCFootballRx - Bad Calls Marr 2018 CFP Final] Ugh-ah!

Like I said above, I'm not expecting any national championships out of South Carolina in my lifetime - they're just too new to success at this level. Georgia, on the other hand, is a different matter... and a huge enigma!

Q: Does Kirby Smart appear to have the Bulldogs headed in the right direction?
A: You'd have to say yes, if only because he got them to the CFP Final.

Q: Will Georgia win another championship any time soon?
A: That's much harder to say. It's almost like there's a cultural problem.

Think about it. When you think of Alabama or Auburn or FSU or Clemson, you think of great players making heroic plays - the QB delivering the pass under great pressure, or the receiver sacrificing his body to make the big catch, or the corner coming out of seemingly nowhere to make a critical interception. When I think of Georgia football, I think of a dominant program that tramples lesser teams... but I don't think of them making the big play in the big games.

Is it just me, or is that a fair assessment of the "problem" at UGA (mind you, a lot of schools would like to have "problems" like the Bulldogs!)

This is a dumb narrative that needs to go away. Atlanta is a bigger city but the ratings show that Birmingham is the kind of college football, and Louisville is at the top for basketball.

(05-14-2020 02:04 PM)Auburn_Blazer Wrote: [ -> ]Atlanta is a bigger city but the ratings show that Birmingham is the kind of college football, and Louisville is at the top for basketball.

Birmingham has the highest percentage of people watching CFB on TV (which is what ratings is), but Atlanta obviously has more people watching. And, even Atlanta isn't the TV market that has the most people watching CFB on TV.

(05-15-2020 12:31 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-14-2020 02:04 PM)Auburn_Blazer Wrote: [ -> ]Atlanta is a bigger city but the ratings show that Birmingham is the kind of college football, and Louisville is at the top for basketball.

Birmingham has the highest percentage of people watching CFB on TV (which is what ratings is), but Atlanta obviously has more people watching. And, even Atlanta isn't the TV market that has the most people watching CFB on TV.

The point of the post is that Greater Atlanta produces a LOT of really good football players, too -- far more than Birmingham (or even the whole state of Alabama combined, most years). It's not just about the fans, it's also the rich recruiting ground.