CSNbbs

It would be interesting to know what the percentage of capacity figures were for each of those schools, which would help indicate the health of the program.
I also thought it was interesting that the Big 12, a conference long believed to be on the chopping block, was the only league in the P5 where attendance actually rose last year.

(05-12-2020 04:34 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]It would be interesting to know what the percentage of capacity figures were for each of those schools, which would help indicate the health of the program.
I also thought it was interesting that the Big 12, a conference long believed to be on the chopping block, was the only league in the P5 where attendance actually rose last year.

Percentage of decrease vs overall attendance is a better gauge. And the numbers, like all statistics are somewhat misleading. Kansas football attendance was up almost 9000 over last year accounting for the biggest % of the Big 12's increase. Still Kansas's overall attendance was the lowest of that conference. The ACC could easily have had a raise in attendance and actually did better filling out the middle than in years past. But F.S.U.'s numbers were down almost 17 thousand. If F.S.U. is having typical years the ACC's attendance would have been about 1,300 higher eclipsing the small loss and adding nicely. You'll note Va Tech's attendance was down around another 6 thousand. So to finish where you did a lot of ACC schools actually had an increase. Ole Miss accounted for most of the SEC's decline along with Tennessee which still did well, but nowhere near the 97,000 they once averaged. Missouri is creeping back up.

The Big 10 turned very strong at the top, very thin in the middle, and pretty darned bad for the last 4 positions. They held the top 3 spots in attendance but past Nebraska they only had 1 school in the 70,000 range and that was Wisconsin.

The tough sledding was the PAC which had little to work with but lost more real attendees than did the SEC which has much higher numbers to begin with. Arkansas also helped to drag down the SEC average. They really need to turn it around. Remember Ole Miss is on probation.

Just for the sake of making an interesting point, WVU would have finished 4th in attendance in the ACC and around the same position in earnings.

MR.SEC heavily criticized Vanderbilt as to not being a "fit" in the SEC. It appears as if their figures justify the criticism (20,000 below the next to last school and over 40,000 below average) because they stick out like a sore thumb.

(05-12-2020 05:05 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]MR.SEC heavily criticized Vanderbilt as to not being a "fit" in the SEC. It appears as if their figures justify the criticism (20,000 below the next to last school and over 40,000 below average) because they stick out like a sore thumb.

Yep. That's annually though. Look at where the SEC's 13th school, Ole Miss, would have finished in the Big 10, 9th and they had more in attendance than the ACC average and the PAC average. That is more of a testimony to the strength of fan participation in the SEC.

But, give Michigan credit, they killed Penn State by 6 thousand, Ohio State by 8 thousand and A&M and Alabama by 10,000. With the Big 10 once you get past Wisconsin there is a major drop off.

BTW, VT is only 8K below capacity, while UVa is 14K below.
Neither one of those programs have coaches that are generating very much excitement.
In the ACC the only schools that were full last year were: Clemson, NCSU and Carolina.

No wonder FSU fired it's football coach!!! I can remember when FSU had SEC-like attendance, just like Clemson did. XLance, how far below capacity is FSU?? . VT is starting to look like FSU after Bowden retired. Coach Beamer was the face of that program for many years, but, like Bowden, decided it was time to hang it up a few years back. It is always difficult to replace a legend. I can only imagine the excitement @ UNC when Mack Brown decided to come back!!!

I love Iowa St.. I hope Texas destroys them every season but that base is LOYAL. And they are down to earth, some of my fondest memories is having quite a few drinks with some of their fans in Austin back in 2007/2008 after a bball game.

(05-12-2020 06:44 AM)DawgNBama Wrote: [ -> ]No wonder FSU fired it's football coach!!! I can remember when FSU had SEC-like attendance, just like Clemson did. XLance, how far below capacity is FSU?? . VT is starting to look like FSU after Bowden retired. Coach Beamer was the face of that program for many years, but, like Bowden, decided it was time to hang it up a few years back. It is always difficult to replace a legend. I can only imagine the excitement @ UNC when Mack Brown decided to come back!!!

FSU seats a few shy of 80,000.

(05-12-2020 07:09 AM)Thiefery Wrote: [ -> ]I love Iowa St.. I hope Texas destroys them every season but that base is LOYAL. And they are down to earth, some of my fondest memories is having quite a few drinks with some of their fans in Austin back in 2007/2008 after a bball game.

Iowa St was exactly who jumped out at me. They’re outdrawing multiple bluebloods. It’s absolutely incredible.

(05-12-2020 07:40 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-12-2020 07:09 AM)Thiefery Wrote: [ -> ]I love Iowa St.. I hope Texas destroys them every season but that base is LOYAL. And they are down to earth, some of my fondest memories is having quite a few drinks with some of their fans in Austin back in 2007/2008 after a bball game.

Iowa St was exactly who jumped out at me. They’re outdrawing multiple bluebloods. It’s absolutely incredible.

and they are there even in bad times.

Maybe the ACC would be better off if Duke and WF stopped fielding teams

(05-12-2020 05:19 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-12-2020 05:05 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]MR.SEC heavily criticized Vanderbilt as to not being a "fit" in the SEC. It appears as if their figures justify the criticism (20,000 below the next to last school and over 40,000 below average) because they stick out like a sore thumb.

Yep. That's annually though. Look at where the SEC's 13th school, Ole Miss, would have finished in the Big 10, 9th and they had more in attendance than the ACC average and the PAC average. That is more of a testimony to the strength of fan participation in the SEC.

But, give Michigan credit, they killed Penn State by 6 thousand, Ohio State by 8 thousand and A&M and Alabama by 10,000. With the Big 10 once you get past Wisconsin there is a major drop off.

Iowa and Minnesota are close to capacity.

A major difference between the SEC and B10 is the SEC has had more parity at the top historically than the B10. With the exception of Vandy, UK and Mississippi State, everyone has had a nice run at some point in the last 25 years. With the B10, it has pretty much always been Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan State. Fans of schools in the back half of the conference like Indiana, Illinois, Purdue and Northwestern know their role is to pad the elite schools in the win column and cash a check. Kind of hard to get rabid about your school when you get your butt kicked every year. Heck go to a game at Northwestern involving Ohio State, Michigan or Wisconsin and you will find the stadium full of fans from those schools not Northwestern.

(05-12-2020 02:52 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-12-2020 05:19 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-12-2020 05:05 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]MR.SEC heavily criticized Vanderbilt as to not being a "fit" in the SEC. It appears as if their figures justify the criticism (20,000 below the next to last school and over 40,000 below average) because they stick out like a sore thumb.

Yep. That's annually though. Look at where the SEC's 13th school, Ole Miss, would have finished in the Big 10, 9th and they had more in attendance than the ACC average and the PAC average. That is more of a testimony to the strength of fan participation in the SEC.

But, give Michigan credit, they killed Penn State by 6 thousand, Ohio State by 8 thousand and A&M and Alabama by 10,000. With the Big 10 once you get past Wisconsin there is a major drop off.

Iowa and Minnesota are close to capacity.

A major difference between the SEC and B10 is the SEC has had more parity at the top historically than the B10. With the exception of Vandy, UK and Mississippi State, everyone has had a nice run at some point in the last 25 years. With the B10, it has pretty much always been Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan State. Fans of schools in the back half of the conference like Indiana, Illinois, Purdue and Northwestern know their role is to pad the elite schools in the win column and cash a check. Kind of hard to get rabid about your school when you get your butt kicked every year. Heck go to a game at Northwestern involving Ohio State, Michigan or Wisconsin and you will find the stadium full of fans from those schools not Northwestern.

NFL and other major pro sports are also much more entrenched in Big Ten states overall than in SEC states.

(05-12-2020 12:55 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]SEC:
1. Texas A&M 101,608
2. Alabama 101,117
3. L.S.U. 100,842
4. Georgia 92,817
5. Tennessee 87,864
6. Auburn 85,765
7. Florida 84,684
8. South Carolina 77,962
[b]X. BYU 59,547
9. Mississippi State 56,182
10. Missouri 54,160
11. Kentucky 53,128
12. Arkansas 50,931
13. Ole Miss 48,233
14. Vanderbilt 26,288
Total: 1,026,581
AVG: 72,970
Compared to 2018: (-1221)




B1G:
1. Michigan 111,459
2. Penn State 105,678
3. Ohio State 103,383
4. Nebraska 89,348
5. Wisconsin 76,472
6. Michigan State 67,819
7. Iowa 65,557
X. BYU 59,547
8. Purdue 54,021
9. Minnesota 46,190
10. Indiana 41,244
11. Maryland 37,812
12. Northwestern 37,736
13. Illinois 36,587
14. Rutgers 30,082
Total: 903,388
AVG: 64,528
Compared to 2018: (-211)



B12:
1. Texas 96,306
2. Oklahoma 83,256
3. Iowa State 59,794
X. BYU 59,547
4. West Virginia 55,907
5. Oklahoma State 54,817
6. Texas Tech 53,418
7. Kansas State 48,818
8. Baylor 45,517
9. T.C.U. 42,881
10. Kansas 33,875
Total: 574,584
AVG: 57,458
Compared to 2018: +1478

ACC:
1. Clemson 80,868
X. BYU 59,547
2. Virginia Tech 58,293
3. N.C. State 56,466
4. Florida State 54,019
5. Miami 52,829
6. North Carolina 50,500
7. Louisville 49,913
8. Virginia 47,863
9. Georgia Tech 44,599
10. Pittsburgh 43,372
11. Syracuse 42,164
12. Boston College 34,185
13. Wake Forest 26,999
14. Duke 25,811
Total: 667,881
AVG: 47,706
Compared to 2018: (-373)

* Notre Dame 76,288

PAC12:
1. Washington 68,238
X. BYU 59,547
2. Southern Cal 59,358
3. Oregon 53,591
4. Colorado 49,573
5. Arizona State 49,166
6. Utah 46,462
7. U.C.L.A. 43,849
8. California 42,433
9. Arizona 39,352
10. Stanford 37,018
11. Oregon State 32,424
12. Washington State 28,541
Total: 550,005
AVG: 45,834
Compared to 2018: (-1384) [/b]

First time in about 5 years that BYU cracked the top-25 again, coming in at #22 with 59,547 per game. Second place in the West...also would have been second place in the ACC and fourth in the Big 12. Middle of the pack in the B1G and SEC, though definitely part of the lower SEC tier.

(05-12-2020 04:29 PM)YNot Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-12-2020 12:55 AM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]SEC:
1. Texas A&M 101,608
2. Alabama 101,117
3. L.S.U. 100,842
4. Georgia 92,817
5. Tennessee 87,864
6. Auburn 85,765
7. Florida 84,684
8. South Carolina 77,962
[b]X. BYU 59,547
9. Mississippi State 56,182
10. Missouri 54,160
11. Kentucky 53,128
12. Arkansas 50,931
13. Ole Miss 48,233
14. Vanderbilt 26,288
Total: 1,026,581
AVG: 72,970
Compared to 2018: (-1221)




B1G:
1. Michigan 111,459
2. Penn State 105,678
3. Ohio State 103,383
4. Nebraska 89,348
5. Wisconsin 76,472
6. Michigan State 67,819
7. Iowa 65,557
X. BYU 59,547
8. Purdue 54,021
9. Minnesota 46,190
10. Indiana 41,244
11. Maryland 37,812
12. Northwestern 37,736
13. Illinois 36,587
14. Rutgers 30,082
Total: 903,388
AVG: 64,528
Compared to 2018: (-211)



B12:
1. Texas 96,306
2. Oklahoma 83,256
3. Iowa State 59,794
X. BYU 59,547
4. West Virginia 55,907
5. Oklahoma State 54,817
6. Texas Tech 53,418
7. Kansas State 48,818
8. Baylor 45,517
9. T.C.U. 42,881
10. Kansas 33,875
Total: 574,584
AVG: 57,458
Compared to 2018: +1478

ACC:
1. Clemson 80,868
X. BYU 59,547
2. Virginia Tech 58,293
3. N.C. State 56,466
4. Florida State 54,019
5. Miami 52,829
6. North Carolina 50,500
7. Louisville 49,913
8. Virginia 47,863
9. Georgia Tech 44,599
10. Pittsburgh 43,372
11. Syracuse 42,164
12. Boston College 34,185
13. Wake Forest 26,999
14. Duke 25,811
Total: 667,881
AVG: 47,706
Compared to 2018: (-373)

* Notre Dame 76,288

PAC12:
1. Washington 68,238
X. BYU 59,547
2. Southern Cal 59,358
3. Oregon 53,591
4. Colorado 49,573
5. Arizona State 49,166
6. Utah 46,462
7. U.C.L.A. 43,849
8. California 42,433
9. Arizona 39,352
10. Stanford 37,018
11. Oregon State 32,424
12. Washington State 28,541
Total: 550,005
AVG: 45,834
Compared to 2018: (-1384) [/b]

First time in about 5 years that BYU cracked the top-25 again, coming in at #22 with 59,547 per game. Second place in the West...also would have been second place in the ACC and fourth in the Big 12. Middle of the pack in the B1G and SEC, though definitely part of the lower SEC tier.

If not for intolerance of Religious beliefs B.Y.U. would earn the PAC money.

Let's look at some of the most trumpeted names for moving up to the P5 and see what they did:

Central Florida 43,788
Cincinnati 35,985
Houston 25,518
San Diego State 29,896
South Florida 31,823
Temple 29,460

Clearly the only one coming close to challenging B.Y.U. is UCF. There aren't any other figures even close to the average of any P5 conference.

(05-12-2020 07:40 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-12-2020 07:09 AM)Thiefery Wrote: [ -> ]I love Iowa St.. I hope Texas destroys them every season but that base is LOYAL. And they are down to earth, some of my fondest memories is having quite a few drinks with some of their fans in Austin back in 2007/2008 after a bball game.

Iowa St was exactly who jumped out at me. They’re outdrawing multiple bluebloods. It’s absolutely incredible.

That and add the fact that Iowa is drawing 65,500 when sharing a state of ~3,000,000 people with Iowa State. Kudos to both schools and their fans.

Nebraska, ~2,000,000 people in the state, drawing just under 90,000 a game. That's why I love the teams in the Big 10 west. Iowa, Nebraska and Wisconsin are great programs. I need to throw Iowa State a bone too, well done, Cyclones!

(05-12-2020 05:32 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]If not for intolerance of Religious beliefs B.Y.U. would earn the PAC money.

Nope. Pac-12 teams don't share ticket revenue, gate receipts, whatever you want to call it. Whether a team sells as many tickets as Washington, or only as many as Wazzu at lower prices, they keep their own.

Using 60K as a cut off, you get 20 schools above the cut off:

SEC: 8
Big Ten: 7
Big 12: 2
ACC: 1
PAC 12: 1
+ND

That makes for a stark contrast between the high dollar and low dollar P5s...The wild thing is that their are traditional powers like USC and Florida St that didn’t clear that mark.

(05-12-2020 08:04 PM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-12-2020 05:32 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]If not for intolerance of Religious beliefs B.Y.U. would earn the PAC money.

Nope. Pac-12 teams don't share ticket revenue, gate receipts, whatever you want to call it. Whether a team sells as many tickets as Washington, or only as many as Wazzu at lower prices, they keep their own.

Well if 69,000 is as good as you can do it probably doesn't make that much difference now does it? B.Y.U. would at least add more games of interest in the region helping TV numbers which are as woeful as the attendance.

And note to Muskie: Normally F.S.U. draws in the 73,000 range. Last year was disgust with the situation. But as far as those 20 schools above the cut goes, those are the ones who drive the TV ratings for the most part. It is a great illustration as to why the conferences are paid what they are paid.