We really need to fire Jones. The high-water mark was reached last year and it is quite clear. Last year was the last year of Jones' best recruiting win, Bryant Stith. Yep, that resource has dried up now. Stith doesn't seem to be too hot on the recruiting trails himself after his sons. I'm not sure why some are clamoring for him to replace Jones. That seems odd. But, back to Jones. Mutiny is afoot in his program. He has too much mid-season turnover. A coach absolutely must command respect over his team, however lambasting players is not always the most effective route towards teaching. Sometimes it's warranted. But you can absolutely over-coach a team until they are stricken with fear of failure. I think you see that with this team, they have the yips on layups. We've had one effective shooter in his seven-year tenure, Trey Freeman.
I think he has a lot of absolutely great coaching qualities that you require to win at this level. The intensity his teams play with on defense is absolutely indicative of a great coaching job. Low turnovers are another great indication. I do not hold any resentment for the job he did here. He had a tough job and restored order to this program quickly. He has 500 wins. He's definitely a good basketball coach.
The biggest issue in this whole scene is which way we're trending. After we have our best year, regular season and tournament champs, we saw a terrible recruiting year. We got a PG that can't find his way on to the floor and a Greek fella with an ACL tear. That's not the type of momentum you expect after reaching a new success.
ODU's floor is lower than Jeff Jones, I'll admit that. But our ceiling is much higher. If you are in sports for any reason, it's to compete. Give the fans something to get reengaged with!
Feel free to discuss rational reasons for Selig to be fired.
(01-13-2020 07:12 PM)Fatalisk Wrote: [ -> ]We really need to fire Jones. The high-water mark was reached last year and it is quite clear. Last year was the last year of Jones' best recruiting win, Bryant Stith. Yep, that resource has dried up now. Stith doesn't seem to be too hot on the recruiting trails himself after his sons. I'm not sure why some are clamoring for him to replace Jones. That seems odd. But, back to Jones. Mutiny is afoot in his program. He has too much mid-season turnover. A coach absolutely must command respect over his team, however lambasting players is not always the most effective route towards teaching. Sometimes it's warranted. But you can absolutely over-coach a team until they are stricken with fear of failure. I think you see that with this team, they have the yips on layups. We've had one effective shooter in his seven-year tenure, Trey Freeman.
I think he has a lot of absolutely great coaching qualities that you require to win at this level. The intensity his teams play with on defense is absolutely indicative of a great coaching job. Low turnovers are another great indication. I do not hold any resentment for the job he did here. He had a tough job and restored order to this program quickly. He has 500 wins. He's definitely a good basketball coach.
The biggest issue in this whole scene is which way we're trending. After we have our best year, regular season and tournament champs, we saw a terrible recruiting year. We got a PG that can't find his way on to the floor and a Greek fella with an ACL tear. That's not the type of momentum you expect after reaching a new success.
ODU's floor is lower than Jeff Jones, I'll admit that. But our ceiling is much higher. If you are in sports for any reason, it's to compete. Give the fans something to get reengaged with!
Feel free to discuss rational reasons for Selig to be fired.
As far as Selig goes, every major sport at ODU is worse now than when he arrived. Every major sport at WKU is better since he left. His two wins are fundraising and after whiffing on the first one, the second time he hired a great basketball coach for the womens team. Id love to see us bring Mark Benson back as AD.
Fire Wood for all the reasons above, plus he just continually under-delivers. My vote is for Bruce Stewart to replace him. Problem is, I don't know that it matters much unless Broderick goes with him.
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I did not go to ODU nor any other university. I was born and raised in Norfolk (Norview), played sports all my life and just wanted a local team I could get behind and follow. Hence, ODU. It all started in 1963. Every year I feel the excitement rush for what could prove to be a highly competitive basketball season. I remember listening to ODO's victory for the Division II national championship on mu transistor radio (didn't have a big radio to listen to!). This has been going on for 57 years now. I still get the same feeling, but enjoying the realization of exciting and competitive teams are falling by the wayside. At least with Blaine Taylor there was excitement and fun in being an ODU fan. He had an engaging personality and really had ODU nation behind him. We knew that if the team wasn't up to par this year, he would recruit and get it right soon. He coached an exciting style of play and brought in quality players. Jeff Jones is an extremely one sided recruiter. He coaches defensive play and players. It's impossible to get the kind of players we need to commit when they know that if they don't adhere to his defensive style they will be sitting on the bench. And if they are trying but make mistakes, they will be verbally chastised in front of thousands of fans bot at the game and on TV. No wonder he loses so many players, I wouldn't play for him either. It really is time for JJ to go. This program is headed nowhere with no light at the end of the tunnel. We need a young exciting coach that can relate to the players. Go to their homes, sell them on the ODU program and bring them to us the undying fans that follow this team year after year after year. We deserve it.
The thought that JJ should be fired notwithstanding, there is one argument being made in favor of his dismissal which I don’t believe holds any water. The argument is that of players leaving the program being his fault. We have to face the fact that the game of NCAA men’s basketball has changed drastically off the court. With the transfer portal every program faces the possibility that players will leave their program, some mid-season. Every coach has his particular style of how he deals with his players, many of them are as tough or tougher on their players than JJ is. It is not the coach’s job to coddle the players or to be their friend. If players are leaving because it’s too tough for them, do you really want them competing for your team. I do not believe that is the reason players have transferred, but whatever the reason, I believe it lies mostly within them, their desires, their idea of what they should be getting in minutes, the idea that they are better on the court than they actually are and a fresh start will surely prove that. Who knows, and I don’t begrudge them their choices, but IMO to put all of that at the feet of JJ or any coach is unreasonable.
Does anything think Paul Webb would consider taking over at AD? And his son Eddie can be the Basketball Coach.
Thoughts?
Some comments on this board seem to be a reaction to Godwin and Dickens.
Other issues notwithstanding, Godwin and Dickens leaving were not on JJ and the program is better off w/o them.
For some, nothing is on JJ. For some, no matter what happens it is all JJ's fault. Answer is probably in the middle somewhere. I personally think the times have passed him by. Not just the game, but the culture, leadership/management best practices, etc. In a perfect world where he is able to bring in the talent he wants and they all buy in 100%, I think he'd be good... but that isn't going to happen. This isn't the 80s where almost every coach is a hardass and parents want that discipline. He is now the exception and parents see their kids as special snowflakes. Frankly, it requires a different approach. That said, he isn't getting fired. The decision was made when we downgraded the position and hired Jones in the first place and we have now quadrupled down on the football disaster. There is no money to hire a good basketball coach. If Rahne doesn't work out, we're phucked.
(01-14-2020 09:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]The decision was made when we downgraded the position and hired Jones in the first place and we have now quadrupled down on the football disaster. There is no money to hire a good basketball coach. If Rahne doesn't work out, we're phucked.
Incorrect. They have already started fundraising to increase the coaching salaries for bball. So far they have raised $1mil of their $2mil goal.
(01-14-2020 09:47 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]The decision was made when we downgraded the position and hired Jones in the first place and we have now quadrupled down on the football disaster. There is no money to hire a good basketball coach. If Rahne doesn't work out, we're phucked.
Incorrect. They have already started fundraising to increase the coaching salaries for bball. So far they have raised $1mil of their $2mil goal.
That being the case, can you speculate JJ is gone once they get that salary increase money? I certainly couldn't see giving raises to JJ and his staff. What about womens side? Raises in order there?
(01-14-2020 09:47 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]The decision was made when we downgraded the position and hired Jones in the first place and we have now quadrupled down on the football disaster. There is no money to hire a good basketball coach. If Rahne doesn't work out, we're phucked.
Incorrect. They have already started fundraising to increase the coaching salaries for bball. So far they have raised $1mil of their $2mil goal.
You are saying they are already planning to fire JJ et al? Or they are trying to give them more money? Not sure I understand what you are getting at. Giving JJ more money doesn't mean we've hired a good basketball coach.
(01-14-2020 09:55 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:47 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]The decision was made when we downgraded the position and hired Jones in the first place and we have now quadrupled down on the football disaster. There is no money to hire a good basketball coach. If Rahne doesn't work out, we're phucked.
Incorrect. They have already started fundraising to increase the coaching salaries for bball. So far they have raised $1mil of their $2mil goal.
You are saying they are already planning to fire JJ et al? Or they are trying to give them more money? Not sure I understand what you are getting at. Giving JJ more money doesn't mean we've hired a good basketball coach.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying they are positioning themselves to increase the coaching salaries when it is time to replace JJ. Could be this off-season, it could be at the end of his current contract.
They just don't want to be in the same position they were after firing Bobby and having to ask for money before they hire a replacement. They want to be in position to pounce on the right candidate.
(01-14-2020 09:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]Some comments on this board seem to be a reaction to Godwin and Dickens.
Other issues notwithstanding, Godwin and Dickens leaving were not on JJ and the program is better off w/o them.
It is always on the coach. He recruited them and he coached them. If you have players that can't adhere to the expectations of the program, and JJ has had quite a few, then you are doing one of those two things wrong. It is not like this is a one off situation. Just off the top of my head without thinking too much, we have Talley, Douglas, Kithcart, Godwin, and Dickens that fall into that category. That is not normal. The high number of transfers in general may be expected, but having that many dudes who were essentially sent packing is not normal.
(01-14-2020 09:14 AM)DMC Wrote: [ -> ]Does anything think Paul Webb would consider taking over at AD? And his son Eddie can be the Basketball Coach.
Thoughts?
Paul Webb will be 91 in June. Eddie Webb will be 66 this month.
(01-14-2020 10:09 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]Some comments on this board seem to be a reaction to Godwin and Dickens.
Other issues notwithstanding, Godwin and Dickens leaving were not on JJ and the program is better off w/o them.
It is always on the coach. He recruited them and he coached them. If you have players that can't adhere to the expectations of the program, and JJ has had quite a few, then you are doing one of those two things wrong. It is not like this is a one off situation. Just off the top of my head without thinking too much, we have Talley, Douglas, Kithcart, Godwin, and Dickens that fall into that category. That is not normal. The high number of transfers in general may be expected, but having that many dudes who were essentially sent packing is not normal.
Ultimately it falls on the coach for sure. I'm not sure the coach can predict which kids will refuse to stop smoking weed though. Or which kids will pout when another player arrives that is better than them.
(01-14-2020 10:09 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]Some comments on this board seem to be a reaction to Godwin and Dickens.
Other issues notwithstanding, Godwin and Dickens leaving were not on JJ and the program is better off w/o them.
It is always on the coach. He recruited them and he coached them. If you have players that can't adhere to the expectations of the program, and JJ has had quite a few, then you are doing one of those two things wrong. It is not like this is a one off situation. Just off the top of my head without thinking too much, we have Talley, Douglas, Kithcart, Godwin, and Dickens that fall into that category. That is not normal. The high number of transfers in general may be expected, but having that many dudes who were essentially sent packing is not normal.
Moseley, Batten, Porter, Hueitt, Fields...
(01-14-2020 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 10:09 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]Some comments on this board seem to be a reaction to Godwin and Dickens.
Other issues notwithstanding, Godwin and Dickens leaving were not on JJ and the program is better off w/o them.
It is always on the coach. He recruited them and he coached them. If you have players that can't adhere to the expectations of the program, and JJ has had quite a few, then you are doing one of those two things wrong. It is not like this is a one off situation. Just off the top of my head without thinking too much, we have Talley, Douglas, Kithcart, Godwin, and Dickens that fall into that category. That is not normal. The high number of transfers in general may be expected, but having that many dudes who were essentially sent packing is not normal.
Ultimately it falls on the coach for sure. I'm not sure the coach can predict which kids will refuse to stop smoking weed though. Or which kids will pout when another player arrives that is better than them.
The coach can figure out how to get players advanced notice on testing, turn the other way, or administer a slap on the wrist for the fricking weed. If you are going to treat weed at the same level as steroids or hitting women, yeah, it is going to be tough to keep players, especially from the urban grounds we tend to recruit. Another example of how the game has passed him by.
(01-14-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 10:09 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]Some comments on this board seem to be a reaction to Godwin and Dickens.
Other issues notwithstanding, Godwin and Dickens leaving were not on JJ and the program is better off w/o them.
It is always on the coach. He recruited them and he coached them. If you have players that can't adhere to the expectations of the program, and JJ has had quite a few, then you are doing one of those two things wrong. It is not like this is a one off situation. Just off the top of my head without thinking too much, we have Talley, Douglas, Kithcart, Godwin, and Dickens that fall into that category. That is not normal. The high number of transfers in general may be expected, but having that many dudes who were essentially sent packing is not normal.
Ultimately it falls on the coach for sure. I'm not sure the coach can predict which kids will refuse to stop smoking weed though. Or which kids will pout when another player arrives that is better than them.
The coach can figure out how to get players advanced notice on testing, turn the other way, or administer a slap on the wrist for the fricking weed. If you are going to treat weed at the same level as steroids or hitting women, yeah, it is going to be tough to keep players, especially from the urban grounds we tend to recruit. Another example of how the game has passed him by.
Yeah, that should go over well. The game passed him by because he doesn't risk his career to allow kids to cheat the system.
(01-14-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 10:09 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]Some comments on this board seem to be a reaction to Godwin and Dickens.
Other issues notwithstanding, Godwin and Dickens leaving were not on JJ and the program is better off w/o them.
It is always on the coach. He recruited them and he coached them. If you have players that can't adhere to the expectations of the program, and JJ has had quite a few, then you are doing one of those two things wrong. It is not like this is a one off situation. Just off the top of my head without thinking too much, we have Talley, Douglas, Kithcart, Godwin, and Dickens that fall into that category. That is not normal. The high number of transfers in general may be expected, but having that many dudes who were essentially sent packing is not normal.
Ultimately it falls on the coach for sure. I'm not sure the coach can predict which kids will refuse to stop smoking weed though. Or which kids will pout when another player arrives that is better than them.
The coach can figure out how to get players advanced notice on testing, turn the other way, or administer a slap on the wrist for the fricking weed. If you are going to treat weed at the same level as steroids or hitting women, yeah, it is going to be tough to keep players, especially from the urban grounds we tend to recruit. Another example of how the game has passed him by.
No words for this other than that is exactly what we DON'T want.
Kudos to JJ maintaining legality, standards, and ethics.
(01-14-2020 12:00 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 10:09 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2020 09:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote: [ -> ]Some comments on this board seem to be a reaction to Godwin and Dickens.
Other issues notwithstanding, Godwin and Dickens leaving were not on JJ and the program is better off w/o them.
It is always on the coach. He recruited them and he coached them. If you have players that can't adhere to the expectations of the program, and JJ has had quite a few, then you are doing one of those two things wrong. It is not like this is a one off situation. Just off the top of my head without thinking too much, we have Talley, Douglas, Kithcart, Godwin, and Dickens that fall into that category. That is not normal. The high number of transfers in general may be expected, but having that many dudes who were essentially sent packing is not normal.
Ultimately it falls on the coach for sure. I'm not sure the coach can predict which kids will refuse to stop smoking weed though. Or which kids will pout when another player arrives that is better than them.
The coach can figure out how to get players advanced notice on testing, turn the other way, or administer a slap on the wrist for the fricking weed. If you are going to treat weed at the same level as steroids or hitting women, yeah, it is going to be tough to keep players, especially from the urban grounds we tend to recruit. Another example of how the game has passed him by.
Yeah, that should go over well. The game passed him by because he doesn't risk his career to allow kids to cheat the system.
LOL, didn't you just recently "OK Boomer" me?