I'll start with a disclaimer that I am not suggesting Drexel start football.
With that out of the way...we went to a Temple football game vs Memphis on Saturday. I hadn't been to a game since probably 10 years when they played Navy. They had 35,000 people there for a noon kickoff with tickets that were $30-$40 a piece...at least. I was expecting to get $5-$10 tickets on Stubhub the day before but it never happened because obviously there was interest.
It's sad to look at that from a Drexel perspective where we don't have that type of enthusiasm for any sport. I GOT IT...we will never get close to that...but then again...who would've thought 10 years or so ago when Temple couldn't win a game that they had a season where they beat Penn State and almost beat Notre Dame?
I guess my point is somebody in the Temple athletic department...and probably higher up than that...must have some kind of vision. They've turned Temple football into a stepping stone for great coaches...similar to VCU. Our AD has had a front row seat to 2 programs rising to national prominence. If we haven't learned anything from this so far...you wonder why we even bother.
Apples and Oranges my friend. Temple is one of the top 3 state universities in PA with 30k undergraduates. They had a successful basketball program that helped jump start them into a larger conference. While their football program used to be terrible, they at least had a football program. They were able to take advantage of the large conference resources to help jump start their football program to being relevant again.
If you want to try to give an explanation as to why Temple can and Drexel can't, I really think you have to look far behind the Zillmer days and go back to the early 80's. Drexel shared the ECC with Temple, St. Joes, American, Drexel, LaSalle, Hofstra, West Chester, Lafayette, Rider, Delaware, Lehigh, and Bucknell. I think it was around the time of John Chaney coming to Temple that they pulled themselves into the new Atlantic 10 and decided to focus on becoming a national powerhouse in basketball. I guess Drexel may have had that same opportunity to be relevent, but never took advantage. I won't pretend to know what type of investment was needed to move into the Atlantic 10, which jumped far above the ECC. I'll give Temple and St. Joe's a lot of credit for pulling themselves out of a conference of mid-majors to jumpstart nationally recognized programs.
Going off topic a bit here...I went on a college tour of West Chester the other day. It's a very large campus with an energetic student body. They used to have some strong Division I sports teams. I can't seem to find any information as to why West Chester and all of the other PA State System schools are now just DII schools. I think a place like West Chester could do very well with Division I athletics.
Temple basketball didn't jump start anything. They moved to the AAC for football at the expense of basketball. Most schools are willing to make that sacrifice though. They made a lot of smart moves from a conference perspective by regrouping in the MAC when they got kicked out of the Big East. All the conference realignment actually came at the perfect time for them. Al Golden was a money hire and they've come through with every other hire since then. Matt Rhule somehow has Baylor undefeated.
i would give West Chester credit if they saw themselves slipping for one reason or another and took a step back. My guess is it had more to do with funding...but I'm not a Temple or West Chester historian so I can't say. I was at a game against Delaware in 2000 when they lost 84-0. The "rivalry" ended after that.
At least if they dropped down it would show they have some type of plan...or vision...or signs of life. I don't know what we're doing right now other than crossing our fingers that Spiker can make chicken salad out of chicken s***.
The other issue is kind of a chicken or the egg theory. Many of the mid-major programs (Butler, VCU, George Mason, ODU, etc) had large established fanbases that helped make their programs attractive to larger conferences. The question is, what is supposed to come first? The fanbase, or the commitment to a large conference.
Let's say that Drexel back in 1982 decided to leave the ECC and join the Atlantic 10? What would the state of the basketball program be today if they decided to make that jump? Would they be like St. Joseph's and be selling out a 4,000 seat gym almost every night for many years and have an occasional trip to the NCAA Tournament? Or would the program be like La Salle, who despite playing in the Atlantic 10 for 23 years, still plays in one of the sh!ttiest arenas in the country and has failed to be relevant for all of these years. Drexel at least had their glory years in the NAC and had some very good teams under Bruiser in the CAA? Would things be better if they decided to make the conference leap years ago? Or is the conference that they are in suiting them just fine, and is the management of the program the problem?
(10-20-2019 09:58 AM)hiroshimacarp Wrote: [ -> ]Temple basketball didn't jump start anything. They moved to the AAC for football at the expense of basketball.
How has the AAC been bad for them in sports other than Football except for increased travel?
(10-21-2019 07:47 AM)EvanJ Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2019 09:58 AM)hiroshimacarp Wrote: [ -> ]Temple basketball didn't jump start anything. They moved to the AAC for football at the expense of basketball.
How has the AAC been bad for them in sports other than Football except for increased travel?
If I'm seeing it right...they've only been to the NCAA tournament twice since they joined the AAC. One of those years was the First Four. Competition between A-10 and AAC is probably close but I would give the edge to the ACC. They're playing tougher competition in lovely places like Greenville, NC. Travel has to be brutal. Sending your women's soccer team all over the country doesn't seem like a good idea for anybody.
(10-20-2019 10:34 AM)J.B. Wrote: [ -> ]The other issue is kind of a chicken or the egg theory. Many of the mid-major programs (Butler, VCU, George Mason, ODU, etc) had large established fanbases that helped make their programs attractive to larger conferences. The question is, what is supposed to come first? The fanbase, or the commitment to a large conference.
Let's say that Drexel back in 1982 decided to leave the ECC and join the Atlantic 10? What would the state of the basketball program be today if they decided to make that jump? Would they be like St. Joseph's and be selling out a 4,000 seat gym almost every night for many years and have an occasional trip to the NCAA Tournament? Or would the program be like La Salle, who despite playing in the Atlantic 10 for 23 years, still plays in one of the sh!ttiest arenas in the country and has failed to be relevant for all of these years. Drexel at least had their glory years in the NAC and had some very good teams under Bruiser in the CAA? Would things be better if they decided to make the conference leap years ago? Or is the conference that they are in suiting them just fine, and is the management of the program the problem?
I'm thinking more in terms right now of stepping back conferences...rather than up. We missed our chance to potentially step up after our last NCAA snub year. We had fan support, winning, and upgraded our facilities probably about as much as we can.
I can't tell you what comes first. I'd just like to see signs that somebody else might know and we're working towards establishing that. Spiker seems to be doing his best. Outside of that I'm not sure.
If I were Drexel, I would consider the CAA's new so called TV deal a major turnoff and a reason to consider shopping around. The CAA used to be a conference that had really nice TV exposure for a mid-major with ESPN, Comcast Sports Regional Networks, and NBCSN. Now they've signed a huge deal with a 3rd rate pay per month streaming service that nobody has. Now, their per game TV viewing numbers are going to drop from the 10,000 range to the dozens.
Drexel might be more suited for the Patriot League or the MAAC. I also like the geographic footprint of these conferences.
The CAA was a really strong mid-major conference 10 years ago that could compete regularly with teams from the big boy conferences. Now, the gap between the big boys and the mid-majors is becoming so great, that I don't see any reason to even try to pretend to be a big time program.
(10-21-2019 02:29 PM)J.B. Wrote: [ -> ]Drexel might be more suited for the Patriot League or the MAAC. I also like the geographic footprint of these conferences.
Let's not overlook the financial buyout to leave the CAA
IF DU was so inclined.
I'm glad you enjoyed your time at the game. Things have certainly changed here quite a bit. I was in college when we were in the MAC, and while the student section was good, the stadium was beyond empty. We've had the second largest attendance increase in the entire country over the last decade behind Mississippi State. We have the most NFL players of any program outside of the Power 5. We have more NFL players than 39 P5 programs, and will be equal with Blue Blood programs like Nebraska and USC next year. We're a great draft class away from being equal with Texas. These programs have more money and resources than god. We do not.
We've had 30K+ at 3 games, and nearly a 4th. Our attendance is ~30,500 without the aid of a program like Penn State or Notre Dame. People are starting to buy in, and we'll be at 40K+ in the next couple years if the program stays on the same trajectory.
(11-10-2019 11:33 PM)JHG722 Wrote: [ -> ]People are starting to buy in, and we'll be at 40K+ in the next couple years if the program stays on the same trajectory.
Good thing is that it appears that the stadium talks might be dead. If Temple starts averaging 40,000/game, that's already more fans than you can fit in the proposed on-campus place.
(11-11-2019 07:43 AM)J.B. Wrote: [ -> ] (11-10-2019 11:33 PM)JHG722 Wrote: [ -> ]People are starting to buy in, and we'll be at 40K+ in the next couple years if the program stays on the same trajectory.
Good thing is that it appears that the stadium talks might be dead. If Temple starts averaging 40,000/game, that's already more fans than you can fit in the proposed on-campus place.
It's not a good thing. Pretty much anyone who isn't old wants the stadium. It absolutely needs to happen, and will happen eventually. I'd rather have a rockin, always sold out 36K seat stadium on campus than 40K in a 69K seat stadium off campus. It's just a completely different atmosphere.
Also, I forgot to add, in regards to an earlier comment, absolutely every single Temple fan other than a basketball player from the mid to late 80s is happy we left the A10 for the AAC. The AAC is a significantly better conference, and we can afford to send our soccer teams to lovely Greenville.
The less basketball success in the AAC is attributed to Dunphy reaching his ceiling and never deviating when things didn't work, and a huge step-up in competition.
having the game at the linc was one of the draws for me since it's expensive to get eagles tickets. i don't know if i would venture into north philly for a football game unless it was really close to the subway. i guess if you're filling a smaller stadium with real fans then you don't have to worry as much about the casual fans.
i've seen those stats too about the number of temple players in the nfl. they keep hitting home runs with coaching hires. i thought matt rhule made a huge mistake leaving for baylor but somehow he has them undefeated.
Dude I have my master's from Drexel and live in Rittenhouse. You'll survive walking around Temple just fine lol
That stuff is so overblown. My brother was at Penn when that screwdriver stuff was happening. Stuff happens all over Philly, but you're most likely fine more often that not at any of the schools in the city, Temple included.
I don't think that safety in North Philly is an issue at all.
I just don't think that a stadium on Temple's campus makes sense. If it did, it would have been built years ago.
I've been to dozens of stadiums all over the country, and I find that the infrastructure of the Philadelphia Sports Complex is among the best in the country, and that's where stadiums in Philadelphia should be built. The road infrastructure on Temple's campus is AWFUL. The area can barely handle the traffic for events at the Liacouras Center, and clearly cannot handle the traffic for 35k events. There's not enough parking, and the land it too valuable to build more, unless they decide to build another giant garage, and I'm not sure if that's in the plans or not. And if you're going to tell people to take the subway, that's fine, but it's just as easy to take the Subway to the sports complex. For alumni who drive to games and like to tailgate, I guarantee that they have a better game-day experience now at the Linc than they would on campus.
And I also think that the $2 million that Temple pays in rent to the Eagles is BS. Pitt just pays operating costs to the Steelers to use Heinz Field. I don't think they're crying over trying to build their own stadium. It's almost as if Temple overpays without negotiating, so they can use it as an excuse as to why they need their own place. I don't buy it.
A stadium at Temple might happen eventually, but talks seem to be completely stalled, and I wouldn't count on something like this happening until at least 2026, maybe later.
We're building a quad. The plan is to emulate SMU (The Boulevard) and Ole Miss (The Grove). It's going to be a magical experience. Far better than a concrete parking lot.
safety is only part of it. agree with jb about getting around and especially parking. they charged $20 for a temple-drexel basketball game a couple years ago in their garage which i thought was a lot.
(11-12-2019 12:39 PM)hiroshimacarp Wrote: [ -> ]safety is only part of it. agree with jb about getting around and especially parking. they charged $20 for a temple-drexel basketball game a couple years ago in their garage which i thought was a lot.
The safety part is laughable though. I'm from the Main Line, and my HS sends 20+ a year to Temple. I think it's actually increased since I graduated from HS. No one is sending their kid to Temple if it's so unsafe.
$20 for parking isn't that expensive on campus for a college sporting event.
You have plenty of options around the city to park for less.
i think we're talking about 2 different things...safety on campus vs safety in the surrounding neighborhoods. i don't think i'm the only father who would be a bit uncomfortable walking through a random north philly neighborhood potentially after dark with my 1 and 5 year old. pretty much goes against everything i learned about staying out of trouble in the city...which i did for 8 years. i'd say the same about drexel so this isn't a knock on temple specifically.
if you can contain the crowd to the school...great. they would be smart to encourage public transportation since i believe regional rail stops on campus. that's probably how we would go...especially if they're going to charge $20 to park (it's usually $10 at drexel).