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Full Version: U.S. Stabbing the Kurds in the back???
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(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

I do the same thing....and i'm saddened each time.
(10-10-2019 07:33 AM)BobL Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

I do the same thing....and i'm saddened each time.

Probably because you leftists can't think for yourself OR read.

If you could read, you would see a lot of those on the right criticized Trump for this. Several of those who didn't would hardly be called giant Trump supporters. And we asked what the alternative would be and NOBODY could answer.

Suggestion-take reading comprehension lessons. It could help you places other than message boards.
(10-09-2019 09:24 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 08:46 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

What would you have done differently and why

Not abandon the people that fought by our side and died with us, that's for sure. Not give in to the wants of a dictator in Turkey. Not pull the plug so suddenly, and with no plan, stunning elected officials on both sides of the aisle. WHY is he doing this NOW of all times?

What if those same people are attacking another nation? This isn't black/white by any stretch of the imagination.
(10-10-2019 07:33 AM)BobL Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

I do the same thing....and i'm saddened each time.

Then maybe you'll be man enough to answer what your gutless leftist compatriots haven't: How many US lives are you willing to put at risk protecting one of our allies from another of our allies? What is the end game?
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

Lol...and by the same token, do you really expect me to believe that the lib-bots who slurp up Rachel MadCow’s silly crap would have been supportive of Trump getting into a shooting war with a member of NATO? The Middle East is a mess and has always been so. There are no good answers there—only bad and really bad choices.

The problem here is that the Turks actually have a legitimate issue here. The Kurdish Workers Party (which the US is not allied with) is basically a communist terror organization. So, Trump can’t very well get into a shooting war where he has aligned himself with an recognized terror organization against a NATO member. That’s an even worse choice. Like I said, there are only bad and really bad choices here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdista...s%27_Party
(10-09-2019 03:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:39 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:36 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 12:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]OK FBO, Redtom, CB, JD........y'all are all up in arms about us removing troops from the area so I have to ask you this: How long should the US keep troops in the region and what is the end game?

I'm not up in arms about removing troops from the area, just not in this way. It's a complete cluster**** which will kill those who helped us beat back ISIS, it endangers the lives of our allies and our troops still in the region, and it will more than likely result in a resurgence of ISIS, not to mention further destabilizing the region causing the need for us to get more involved.



You didn't answer the question.

How long should we keep troops in the region and what is the end game?

1 year, 8 months, and 7 days.
Total peace.

01-wingedeagle

In other words you have no idea and this is just another case of "ORANGE MAN BAD!"

There is absolutely no reason why we should put a single US service member's life at risk to defend the Kurds from a fight that has been going on for a millennia and will continue to go on for another millennia. We can support the Kurds by supplying them with weapons, we do not need boots on the ground to give support.

That's all well and good if we weren't there already, but we are. But you're right. I'm sure none of the ISIS fighters they are currently holding will return to the battlefield.

And I hate to break it to you, but the orange man IS bad here. Even his toadie republicans see it.
(10-10-2019 09:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 03:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:39 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:36 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not up in arms about removing troops from the area, just not in this way. It's a complete cluster**** which will kill those who helped us beat back ISIS, it endangers the lives of our allies and our troops still in the region, and it will more than likely result in a resurgence of ISIS, not to mention further destabilizing the region causing the need for us to get more involved.



You didn't answer the question.

How long should we keep troops in the region and what is the end game?

1 year, 8 months, and 7 days.
Total peace.

01-wingedeagle

In other words you have no idea and this is just another case of "ORANGE MAN BAD!"

There is absolutely no reason why we should put a single US service member's life at risk to defend the Kurds from a fight that has been going on for a millennia and will continue to go on for another millennia. We can support the Kurds by supplying them with weapons, we do not need boots on the ground to give support.

That's all well and good if we weren't there already, but we are. But you're right. I'm sure none of the ISIS fighters they are currently holding will return to the battlefield.

And I hate to break it to you, but the orange man IS bad here. Even his toadie republicans see it.

If he beefed up troops people would still consider orange man bad by the same people that are complaining that he withdrew troops. Reality is no matter what he did/didn't do the same people that hate him would still hate him.
(10-10-2019 09:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 03:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:39 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:36 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not up in arms about removing troops from the area, just not in this way. It's a complete cluster**** which will kill those who helped us beat back ISIS, it endangers the lives of our allies and our troops still in the region, and it will more than likely result in a resurgence of ISIS, not to mention further destabilizing the region causing the need for us to get more involved.



You didn't answer the question.

How long should we keep troops in the region and what is the end game?

1 year, 8 months, and 7 days.
Total peace.

01-wingedeagle

In other words you have no idea and this is just another case of "ORANGE MAN BAD!"

There is absolutely no reason why we should put a single US service member's life at risk to defend the Kurds from a fight that has been going on for a millennia and will continue to go on for another millennia. We can support the Kurds by supplying them with weapons, we do not need boots on the ground to give support.

That's all well and good if we weren't there already, but we are. But you're right. I'm sure none of the ISIS fighters they are currently holding will return to the battlefield.

And I hate to break it to you, but the orange man IS bad here. Even his toadie republicans see it.


We weren't supposed to be there in the first place, but like every other time you socialists ignored the fact that Obama lied at least SIXTEEN separate, unprompted times saying there would be "no boots on the ground" in Syria.


If they are concerned about ISIS prisoners returning to the battlefield I suggest they execute them.
(10-10-2019 07:22 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2019 07:05 AM)Jugnaut Wrote: [ -> ]Dems have really turned into the pro-endless war party due to their hatred of Trump. It's surprising given how anti-war they were when Bush was president.

That Democrats have managed to forfeit any remaining shred of credibility when it comes to foreign affairs does not excuse the same kind of ignorant support on the part of Trumpists.

I don't pretend to know the best option for this horrible situation. It may very well be that we have no better option that to turn our backs on the Kurds and allow them to be slaughtered by the genocidal Turks. But it inspires zero confidence when the response offered by the president is to tweet about how great and wise he is, and then suggest that the Kurds are not worth defending because they didn't fight with us in Normandy.

I have long ago dismissed the Democrats as unserious political hacks. Unfortunately, Trump supporters are not too far behind them.

I don't think you'll find a defender when he mindlessly tweets about foreign policy....I know I cringe when he does it...

however, we never had any skin in this engagement....the only reason was to continue funding military manufacturing....

in the end, that's all that matters to those inglorious basterds....

believe what you choose.....I know how that game works....

many a soldier got dick cheyney'd along the way....
(10-09-2019 09:24 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 08:46 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

What would you have done differently and why

Not abandon the people that fought by our side and died with us, that's for sure. Not give in to the wants of a dictator in Turkey. Not pull the plug so suddenly, and with no plan, stunning elected officials on both sides of the aisle. WHY is he doing this NOW of all times?

We are still financing them and giving them arms. Therefore i dont think the word abandon is appropriate.

We cannot maintain a long term presence in a hostile country for an idefinite period of time with no endgame in sight.

True or False?
(10-10-2019 12:28 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 09:24 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 08:46 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

What would you have done differently and why

Not abandon the people that fought by our side and died with us, that's for sure. Not give in to the wants of a dictator in Turkey. Not pull the plug so suddenly, and with no plan, stunning elected officials on both sides of the aisle. WHY is he doing this NOW of all times?

We are still financing them and giving them arms. Therefore i dont think the word abandon is appropriate.

We cannot maintain a long term presence in a hostile country for an idefinite period of time with no endgame in sight.

True or False?

Depends entirely on which side Trump takes.

07-coffee3
(10-10-2019 09:46 AM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2019 09:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 03:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:39 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:36 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]You didn't answer the question.

How long should we keep troops in the region and what is the end game?

1 year, 8 months, and 7 days.
Total peace.

01-wingedeagle

In other words you have no idea and this is just another case of "ORANGE MAN BAD!"

There is absolutely no reason why we should put a single US service member's life at risk to defend the Kurds from a fight that has been going on for a millennia and will continue to go on for another millennia. We can support the Kurds by supplying them with weapons, we do not need boots on the ground to give support.

That's all well and good if we weren't there already, but we are. But you're right. I'm sure none of the ISIS fighters they are currently holding will return to the battlefield.

And I hate to break it to you, but the orange man IS bad here. Even his toadie republicans see it.


We weren't supposed to be there in the first place, but like every other time you socialists ignored the fact that Obama lied at least SIXTEEN separate, unprompted times saying there would be "no boots on the ground" in Syria.


If they are concerned about ISIS prisoners returning to the battlefield I suggest they execute them.

This. I know it's not pleasant to our notions of honorable wartime behavior but a daisy cutter or MOAB on an ISIS prison camp would solve the problem. I would have no problem with us doing it given how terrible ISIS is. They deserve no mercy.
(10-10-2019 12:28 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 09:24 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 08:46 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

What would you have done differently and why

Not abandon the people that fought by our side and died with us, that's for sure. Not give in to the wants of a dictator in Turkey. Not pull the plug so suddenly, and with no plan, stunning elected officials on both sides of the aisle. WHY is he doing this NOW of all times?

We are still financing them and giving them arms. Therefore i dont think the word abandon is appropriate.

We cannot maintain a long term presence in a hostile country for an idefinite period of time with no endgame in sight.

True or False?
The mere absence of our presence in the region motivated Turkey to invade. We sell weapons to Turkey too. You don't see any issue with this at all?

And you act like there was any plan at all. This came as a complete surprise to everyone, so much so that even Lindsay Graham is (momentarily) breaking rank and voicing disagreement.

I'd be happy to withdraw from the area, I'd be happy for any plan of action. Picking up your ball and going home for unknown reasons is not a plan.
(10-10-2019 01:04 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2019 12:28 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 09:24 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 08:46 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

What would you have done differently and why

Not abandon the people that fought by our side and died with us, that's for sure. Not give in to the wants of a dictator in Turkey. Not pull the plug so suddenly, and with no plan, stunning elected officials on both sides of the aisle. WHY is he doing this NOW of all times?

We are still financing them and giving them arms. Therefore i dont think the word abandon is appropriate.

We cannot maintain a long term presence in a hostile country for an idefinite period of time with no endgame in sight.

True or False?
The mere absence of our presence in the region motivated Turkey to invade. We sell weapons to Turkey too. You don't see any issue with this at all?

And you act like there was any plan at all. This came as a complete surprise to everyone, so much so that even Lindsay Graham is (momentarily) breaking rank and voicing disagreement.

I'd be happy to withdraw from the area, I'd be happy for any plan of action. Picking up your ball and going home for unknown reasons is not a plan.

more shrubberies from a shrub...you do not disappoint...

in this scenario, if you don't understand we knew how this would play out beforehand, there's not a deity that can help you....
(10-10-2019 01:04 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2019 12:28 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 09:24 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 08:46 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

What would you have done differently and why

Not abandon the people that fought by our side and died with us, that's for sure. Not give in to the wants of a dictator in Turkey. Not pull the plug so suddenly, and with no plan, stunning elected officials on both sides of the aisle. WHY is he doing this NOW of all times?

We are still financing them and giving them arms. Therefore i dont think the word abandon is appropriate.

We cannot maintain a long term presence in a hostile country for an idefinite period of time with no endgame in sight.

True or False?
The mere absence of our presence in the region motivated Turkey to invade. We sell weapons to Turkey too. You don't see any issue with this at all?

And you act like there was any plan at all. This came as a complete surprise to everyone, so much so that even Lindsay Graham is (momentarily) breaking rank and voicing disagreement.

I'd be happy to withdraw from the area, I'd be happy for any plan of action. Picking up your ball and going home for unknown reasons is not a plan.

Its a surprise because the MSM is focusing on fake conspiracy theories. I'm sure it was not a surprise to the Turks or Kurds that this was a possibility. They have been negotiating for months and the Turks keep ratcheting up the rhetoric.

Its hard to get real news about the world with all the MSM efforts to attack our President.

I have to search for specific topics and then often its only on BBC or regional news services or Al-jazeera. Try finding something out about the frozen conflicts in Transdniester or the Donbas or Karabakh. You can't find anything in the US press. This is the first they have covered Syria in months.

And I'm serious about Al-jazeera. It has its point of view, but it is far superior to US news services in covering world events.
(10-10-2019 01:04 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2019 12:28 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 09:24 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 08:46 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 06:56 PM)Kruciff Wrote: [ -> ]Everytime I come back here thinking "This... THIS is the embarrassment and disaster that can't be spun on this board" and every time I've been proven wrong.

I say this literally. Trump very much can shoot someone dead in the middle of 5th avenue, in broad daylight, on national television, and you people would find a way spin it. Every single damn one of you would be screaming treason if Obama even implied he was going to do this.

What would you have done differently and why

Not abandon the people that fought by our side and died with us, that's for sure. Not give in to the wants of a dictator in Turkey. Not pull the plug so suddenly, and with no plan, stunning elected officials on both sides of the aisle. WHY is he doing this NOW of all times?

We are still financing them and giving them arms. Therefore i dont think the word abandon is appropriate.

We cannot maintain a long term presence in a hostile country for an idefinite period of time with no endgame in sight.

True or False?
The mere absence of our presence in the region motivated Turkey to invade. We sell weapons to Turkey too. You don't see any issue with this at all?

And you act like there was any plan at all. This came as a complete surprise to everyone, so much so that even Lindsay Graham is (momentarily) breaking rank and voicing disagreement.

I'd be happy to withdraw from the area, I'd be happy for any plan of action. Picking up your ball and going home for unknown reasons is not a plan.
If our presence was the only thing preventing Turkish invasion, the the only solution acceptable would
be permanent boots on ground.

Thats not what needs to happen. We are not the Policemen of the world
(10-10-2019 12:51 PM)Jugnaut Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2019 09:46 AM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-10-2019 09:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 03:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-09-2019 02:39 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]1 year, 8 months, and 7 days.
Total peace.

01-wingedeagle

In other words you have no idea and this is just another case of "ORANGE MAN BAD!"

There is absolutely no reason why we should put a single US service member's life at risk to defend the Kurds from a fight that has been going on for a millennia and will continue to go on for another millennia. We can support the Kurds by supplying them with weapons, we do not need boots on the ground to give support.

That's all well and good if we weren't there already, but we are. But you're right. I'm sure none of the ISIS fighters they are currently holding will return to the battlefield.

And I hate to break it to you, but the orange man IS bad here. Even his toadie republicans see it.


We weren't supposed to be there in the first place, but like every other time you socialists ignored the fact that Obama lied at least SIXTEEN separate, unprompted times saying there would be "no boots on the ground" in Syria.


If they are concerned about ISIS prisoners returning to the battlefield I suggest they execute them.

This. I know it's not pleasant to our notions of honorable wartime behavior but a daisy cutter or MOAB on an ISIS prison camp would solve the problem. I would have no problem with us doing it given how terrible ISIS is. They deserve no mercy.

we supply weapons = they fight

we don't supply weapons = they fight with other's supplied

regardless, they continue to fight....

better to infuse USD supply vs. any other....

it's the US bodies that are the only issue at this point...
One fairly obvious thing here as well. trump makes this surprise announcement and in a matter of days Turkey has the plans ready to go forward?

Smells fishy.
(10-10-2019 01:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]One fairly obvious thing here as well. trump makes this surprise announcement and in a matter of days Turkey has the plans ready to go forward?

Smells fishy.

how so?

colluding with one ally vs. another that technically are only aligned...

it's obvious we knew beforehand what was getting ready to go downtown south of chinatown....

you'd rather see US troops in the crossfire....

what a fk'n idjut....
(10-10-2019 01:33 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: [ -> ]One fairly obvious thing here as well. trump makes this surprise announcement and in a matter of days Turkey has the plans ready to go forward?

Smells fishy.

Smells fishy? Sounds like Turkey said "We are coming in 3 days. This is your warning to get your people out of harms way." Trump could either get in a shooting war with a NATO ally with no US upside, or could pull back behind the 20 mile "neutral zone" line. This event is not that complicated. The situation---is hugely complicated and difficult to see any way for us to gracefully execute a final exit.
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