CSNbbs

I was a 2016 never-Trumper. I have many 2016 never-Trumpers of various stripes in my family.

In my opinion, this Ukraine thing could sink Trump's 2020 chances. It's made me seriously reconsider my support for him.

This Ukraine thing is different than the previous Dem attacks against Trump. This has legs. It's too far ahead of the 2020 elections to be 100% politically motivated; there's time for Trump to respond & a full investigation.


I'm under no delusions about Mr. Trump - he's an arrogant, self-serving SOB and I fully believe that he was capable of withholding hundreds of millions in US congressionally approved aid for a petty political dispute. From Day One, I've been worried that he would do such a thing. If it proves he did, I won't vote for him.

I didn't vote for Mr. Trump in 2016, but up until now he had my vote for 2020. Mostly because the Dems have gone off the F-ing rails.

But this could send me back to Never-Trump territory, along with a crucial 2-3% of the American electorate. That could very well decide 2020.

I could conceivably vote for Tulsi Gabbard (longshot) or maybe even Biden or Klobuchard. No other Democrat could get my vote, so if this isn't debunked I'll vote Libertarian again. But the ONLY way I vote for Trump at this point is if the Ukraine thing is fully debunked.

ANYTHING LESS than 100% transparency from Trump on the Ukraine thing, and I will assume he's guilty of attempting to change US foreign policy for political gain. That is unacceptable. Obama's promise of "flexibility" to Putin in 2012 pales in comparison.

I realize I'm an Illinois voter and my vote doesn't really count. But several of my relatives with similar thoughts are Ohio and Michigan never-Trumpers. And their votes will count.

One addendum - the only thing Trump has going for him at this point about the Ukraine thing is that the Democrats have completely blown their claims to an unbiased evaluation of his Presidency.

80% of Dems not named Nancy Pelosi want to IMPEACH, IMPEACH, IMPEACH! This is unfortunate, because when an actual impeachable offense arises (like the Ukraine thing), I am EXTREMELY skeptical of any impeachment proceedings.

If the Dems had bided their time and refused to put any credence to any of the Russia conspiracy theories, they'd probably be able to impeach him by November & have a decent chance at a Senate conviction by the time primary season rolled around.

Well, the so called whistleblower was not even around when it happened, and she is also a Hillary supporter. This is going to blow up on the Dems just like the other crap. There is also the Biden factor with a lot of unexplained income.


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Exactly what is this Ukraine thing? I mean, what do we know as a matter of fact and how do we know it?

(09-24-2019 11:35 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, the so called whistleblower was not even around when it happened, and she is also a Hillary supporter. This is going to blow up on the Dems just like the other crap. There is also the Biden factor with a lot of unexplained income.


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Perhaps. That's why I'm glad this happened in September 2019 rather than September 2020. Gives us time to figure out the real story.

So you would not vote for Trump if he threatened to withhold money from the Ukraine in an attempt to find out if Joe Biden got quid pro quo for his son by threatening to withhold money from Ukraine?

The only difference right now is that we know for a fact that Biden threatened the Ukraine because Biden has told us he did.

I know what Trump's motive most likely was if he really did this, however, it can be couched as an effort to hold a foreign government responsible if they were involved in what was basically an extortion attempt by a sitting U.S. Vice President. I guess it's possible some people are okay with a politician using the power of the U.S. Treasury to get sweet jobs for their kids, but I'm not.

So there's your out for Trump.

The OP literally makes no sense.

(09-24-2019 11:16 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]It's too far ahead of the 2020 elections to be 100% politically motivated; there's time for Trump to respond & a full investigation.

Actually it's prefectly timed for the dems from a political standpoint. The process as a whole can take 4-6 months to complete. That would put it smak in the heat of the primary season.

The most damning thing here is that Pelosi, when asked, said that even if the content of the transcripts was not damning she would "find another" reason to impeach trump.

Quote:I'm under no delusions about Mr. Trump - he's an arrogant, self-serving SOB and I fully believe that he was capable of withholding hundreds of millions in US congressionally approved aid for a petty political dispute.

Except Ukraine said it didn't happen that way and the aid was never withheld despite the fact there was no investigation.

Bro you just posted cringe

Imagine claiming you could conceivably vote for amy klobuchar lmfao can’t relate

(09-25-2019 01:29 AM)Kronke Wrote: [ -> ]Bro you just posted cringe

Imagine claiming you could conceivably vote for amy klobuchar lmfao can’t relate

It doesn't matter... klobuchar is only running to raise money for the next senate run, the woman has gone as high as she can go and she knows it.

Dumb people doing dumb things.

Guess Mueller and ROOOSKIES!!! didn’t work, tub o goo with the next fake kavanaugh smear and impeeeshment didn’t work (last week),

So now we’re to believe another episode of TRUMP DID IT FIRST!!!

After it’s clear that the only “collusion” here was Sloe and his adulterous cokehead son joining hands and singing kumbaya with both the Ukrainians and Chinese for several millions of dollars for doing nothing.

Least impressive people I’ve seen in these positions I think in ever.


Sad

(09-24-2019 11:38 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2019 11:35 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, the so called whistleblower was not even around when it happened, and she is also a Hillary supporter. This is going to blow up on the Dems just like the other crap. There is also the Biden factor with a lot of unexplained income.


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Perhaps. That's why I'm glad this happened in September 2019 rather than September 2020. Gives us time to figure out the real story.

they're attempting to sharpen their 'spears' for the upcoming debate cycles....sept. '20 is too late...

wtfe with the 'never trumper'....the meaning of that in it's entirety is nothing but stupid....

do you realize that "catch and release" is now in the process of being repealed....

I love you guys that pay attention to the bs while meaningful things are happening...

#ol'boyismykindapompous

#allyouseeisbombastic

(09-24-2019 11:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly what is this Ukraine thing? I mean, what do we know as a matter of fact and how do we know it?

No one knows what is in the whistleblower document which makes the whole thing puzzling.

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From what I understand the complaint was a non-issue hence why it never went anywhere, but someone broke chain of command and went to Adam Schiff...

We'll see what happens.. Give it 24 hours...

(09-24-2019 11:16 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]I was a 2016 never-Trumper. I have many 2016 never-Trumpers of various stripes in my family.

In my opinion, this Ukraine thing could sink Trump's 2020 chances. It's made me seriously reconsider my support for him.

This Ukraine thing is different than the previous Dem attacks against Trump. This has legs. It's too far ahead of the 2020 elections to be 100% politically motivated; there's time for Trump to respond & a full investigation.


I'm under no delusions about Mr. Trump - he's an arrogant, self-serving SOB and I fully believe that he was capable of withholding hundreds of millions in US congressionally approved aid for a petty political dispute. From Day One, I've been worried that he would do such a thing. If it proves he did, I won't vote for him.

I didn't vote for Mr. Trump in 2016, but up until now he had my vote for 2020. Mostly because the Dems have gone off the F-ing rails.

But this could send me back to Never-Trump territory, along with a crucial 2-3% of the American electorate. That could very well decide 2020.

I could conceivably vote for Tulsi Gabbard (longshot) or maybe even Biden or Klobuchard. No other Democrat could get my vote, so if this isn't debunked I'll vote Libertarian again. But the ONLY way I vote for Trump at this point is if the Ukraine thing is fully debunked.

ANYTHING LESS than 100% transparency from Trump on the Ukraine thing, and I will assume he's guilty of attempting to change US foreign policy for political gain. That is unacceptable. Obama's promise of "flexibility" to Putin in 2012 pales in comparison.

I realize I'm an Illinois voter and my vote doesn't really count. But several of my relatives with similar thoughts are Ohio and Michigan never-Trumpers. And their votes will count.

Transparent like release the transcript and request the whistleblower meet with Congress?

(09-25-2019 07:04 AM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2019 11:16 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]I was a 2016 never-Trumper. I have many 2016 never-Trumpers of various stripes in my family.

In my opinion, this Ukraine thing could sink Trump's 2020 chances. It's made me seriously reconsider my support for him.

This Ukraine thing is different than the previous Dem attacks against Trump. This has legs. It's too far ahead of the 2020 elections to be 100% politically motivated; there's time for Trump to respond & a full investigation.


I'm under no delusions about Mr. Trump - he's an arrogant, self-serving SOB and I fully believe that he was capable of withholding hundreds of millions in US congressionally approved aid for a petty political dispute. From Day One, I've been worried that he would do such a thing. If it proves he did, I won't vote for him.

I didn't vote for Mr. Trump in 2016, but up until now he had my vote for 2020. Mostly because the Dems have gone off the F-ing rails.

But this could send me back to Never-Trump territory, along with a crucial 2-3% of the American electorate. That could very well decide 2020.

I could conceivably vote for Tulsi Gabbard (longshot) or maybe even Biden or Klobuchard. No other Democrat could get my vote, so if this isn't debunked I'll vote Libertarian again. But the ONLY way I vote for Trump at this point is if the Ukraine thing is fully debunked.

ANYTHING LESS than 100% transparency from Trump on the Ukraine thing, and I will assume he's guilty of attempting to change US foreign policy for political gain. That is unacceptable. Obama's promise of "flexibility" to Putin in 2012 pales in comparison.

I realize I'm an Illinois voter and my vote doesn't really count. But several of my relatives with similar thoughts are Ohio and Michigan never-Trumpers. And their votes will count.

Transparent like release the transcript and request the whistleblower meet with Congress?

Don't be absurd. We will only settle for him sitting down with a shill posing as a journalist and publicly state on national t.v. that "there was was not a smidgen of scandal".

Until President Trump subjects himself to that grueling standard, he will forever be under suspicion.

(09-25-2019 07:09 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-25-2019 07:04 AM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2019 11:16 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ]I was a 2016 never-Trumper. I have many 2016 never-Trumpers of various stripes in my family.

In my opinion, this Ukraine thing could sink Trump's 2020 chances. It's made me seriously reconsider my support for him.

This Ukraine thing is different than the previous Dem attacks against Trump. This has legs. It's too far ahead of the 2020 elections to be 100% politically motivated; there's time for Trump to respond & a full investigation.


I'm under no delusions about Mr. Trump - he's an arrogant, self-serving SOB and I fully believe that he was capable of withholding hundreds of millions in US congressionally approved aid for a petty political dispute. From Day One, I've been worried that he would do such a thing. If it proves he did, I won't vote for him.

I didn't vote for Mr. Trump in 2016, but up until now he had my vote for 2020. Mostly because the Dems have gone off the F-ing rails.

But this could send me back to Never-Trump territory, along with a crucial 2-3% of the American electorate. That could very well decide 2020.

I could conceivably vote for Tulsi Gabbard (longshot) or maybe even Biden or Klobuchard. No other Democrat could get my vote, so if this isn't debunked I'll vote Libertarian again. But the ONLY way I vote for Trump at this point is if the Ukraine thing is fully debunked.

ANYTHING LESS than 100% transparency from Trump on the Ukraine thing, and I will assume he's guilty of attempting to change US foreign policy for political gain. That is unacceptable. Obama's promise of "flexibility" to Putin in 2012 pales in comparison.

I realize I'm an Illinois voter and my vote doesn't really count. But several of my relatives with similar thoughts are Ohio and Michigan never-Trumpers. And their votes will count.

Transparent like release the transcript and request the whistleblower meet with Congress?

Don't be absurd. We will only settle for him sitting down with a shill posing as a journalist and publicly state on national t.v. that "there was was not a smidgen of scandal".

Until President Trump subjects himself to that grueling standard, he will forever be under suspicion.

Hahaha
Like that would work

Trump could say what beautiful blue sky and CNN headline would read "Trump ignoring planet is dying"

(09-25-2019 06:11 AM)fsquid Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2019 11:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly what is this Ukraine thing? I mean, what do we know as a matter of fact and how do we know it?

No one knows what is in the whistleblower document which makes the whole thing puzzling.

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What “whistleblower”?

Is 2nd or 3rd hand rumor now worthy of a whistleblower label?

What could this person possibly add that wouldn’t be covered or made clear by the transcript of the actual call?!?

(09-25-2019 06:11 AM)fsquid Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-24-2019 11:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly what is this Ukraine thing? I mean, what do we know as a matter of fact and how do we know it?

No one knows what is in the whistleblower document which makes the whole thing puzzling.

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See my post.. My understanding is it got to a certain level, was reviewed and didn't pass the sniff test, so it was decided it was a non-issue.. Then someone below the reviewer broke rank and went to Schiff... Which tells you what you need to know.

(09-25-2019 07:14 AM)JMUDunk Wrote: [ -> ]What could this person possibly add that wouldn’t be covered or made clear by the transcript of the actual call?!?

Drama...