So, anyone that has had reasonably competent parents were told that life isn't fair. You take what you have and make the best of things and with hard work you can turn lemons into lemonade. Truth is this... Apart from Nebraska there hasn't been a National title in the B1G West since the 1960 (Minnesota). The muscle of the B1G has always been Ohio State & Michigan and since 1991 Penn State has been among the B1G bullies too.
My proposal is simple swap Sparty and Illinois. So the divisions will look like this (arranged by stadium size)
East......................................West
Michigan (107601)..........Nebraska (86047)
Penn State (106572)..........Wisconsin (80321)
Ohio State (104944)..........Sparty (75005)
Illinois (60670)............Iowa (70585)
Indiana (52929).......... Purdue (57236)
Rutgers (52454).......... Minnesota (50805)
Maryland (51802)...........Northwestern (47330)
A few points:
1. The B1G East would still be top heavy but less so by moving Sparty giving the other schools in the East a better chance at making a bowl annually.
2. By moving Sparty, the B1G West becomes the deeper division with practically every team in the West having a legit shot to win the division.
3. Sparty had legendary games with Nebraska & Wisconsin during the legends and Leaders years and those games could quickly become meaningful again.
4. The B1G 3 would still be pulling ratings in the New York to DMV corridor playing Rutgers and Maryland.
5. Sparty recruits the heck out of Chicago and playing Northwestern annually only helps those efforts.
6. The league stays mostly geographic with with the 4 Easternmost and 4 Westernmost schools playing in their logical division and splitting the states with 2 schools per state.
7. Obviously you'd have locked games for Indiana v Purdue, Michigan v Sparty, & Illinois v NU as all 3 rivalries would be split between divisions.
You all will notice that my focus has been heavily on Sparty because they are a program that along with Nebraska has the highest ceiling. They live in the shadow of the B1G 3 and need the change and in neighborhood to realize their potential and become the National power that they were in the 60s in the Wild West.
Why not move Purdue to the East instead of Illinois?
East/West
Indiana/Northwestern
Maryland/Nebraska
Michigan/Michigan State
Ohio State/Wisconsin
Penn State/Iowa
Purdue/Illinois
Rutgers/Minnesota
Really, all crossovers but Michigan/MSU and maybe Purdue/Illinois could rotate though.
Swapping Sparty with Purdue would help to even out the competitive balance of the conference. They’d need a protected crossover with Michigan though. You run into some trouble in that Sparty values their match ups with Ohio St and Penn St and they’d also be losing a trophy game with Indiana. The bigger problem is that I’m rivalry week Mich St would need to play an East school—Penn St, Rutgers, or Maryland. Cross Division scheduling would have to insure that they get Mich and one of those 3 as part of their 3 games against the East.
(07-21-2019 07:29 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]Swapping Sparty with Purdue would help to even out the competitive balance of the conference. They’d need a protected crossover with Michigan though. You run into some trouble in that Sparty values their match ups with Ohio St and Penn St and they’d also be losing a trophy game with Indiana. The bigger problem is that I’m rivalry week Mich St would need to play an East school—Penn St, Rutgers, or Maryland. Cross Division scheduling would have to insure that they get Mich and one of those 3 as part of their 3 games against the East.
Such scheduling is certainly possible. Something like this?
Year 1-2: Michigan, Ohio State, Rutgers
Year 3-4: Michigan, Indiana, Penn State
Year 5-6: Michigan, Maryland, Purdue
(07-21-2019 07:29 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]Swapping Sparty with Purdue would help to even out the competitive balance of the conference. They’d need a protected crossover with Michigan though. You run into some trouble in that Sparty values their match ups with Ohio St and Penn St and they’d also be losing a trophy game with Indiana. The bigger problem is that I’m rivalry week Mich St would need to play an East school—Penn St, Rutgers, or Maryland. Cross Division scheduling would have to insure that they get Mich and one of those 3 as part of their 3 games against the East.
That can be done.
Sparty has to play 2/6 non-UM East teams.
Play one of UI/IU/OSU whenever and play one of PSU/RU/UMD the final week. Whichever of PSU/RU/UMD don’t play MSU play each other.
————-
Swapping Illinois instead of Purdue helps competitive balance.
Bowls since ‘97:
Purdue - 14
Illinois - 6
Purdue has shown the ability to bounce back from a 9-33 tenure and sustain. Illinois will crawl out of the rabbit hole for one special season (Sugar Bowl, Rose Bowl) and fall right back in under the same coach.
(07-21-2019 07:20 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]Why not move Purdue to the East instead of Illinois?
East/West
Indiana/Northwestern
Maryland/Nebraska
Michigan/Michigan State
Ohio State/Wisconsin
Penn State/Iowa
Purdue/Illinois
Rutgers/Minnesota
Really, all crossovers but Michigan/MSU and maybe Purdue/Illinois could rotate though.
Purdue has been better than Illinois for many years now. The goal was to take the weakest team in the West and move them East along with Sparty moving West. It would accomplish a similar goal though.
Should move Michigan state to the west with annual cross over games of
MSU -UM
NW- Rutgers
ILL- Ohio state
WIS - Purdue
MIN- Maryland
Iowa - Indiana
Neb - penn state
What's wrong with the way it is?
The East has more elite programs, but the West is much deeper. The strongest 3 programs are all in the East, but so are the weakest 3 programs (Indiana, Rutgers, and Maryland).
And from a rivalry perspective this move makes no sense. Illinois' biggest rivalries are all in the West. MSU's biggest rivals are all in the East. Purdue is the only school that really straddles the two halves, and since the Indiana game is a protected rivalry they would rather be in the West.
(07-21-2019 08:39 AM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote: [ -> ] (07-21-2019 07:20 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]Why not move Purdue to the East instead of Illinois?
East/West
Indiana/Northwestern
Maryland/Nebraska
Michigan/Michigan State
Ohio State/Wisconsin
Penn State/Iowa
Purdue/Illinois
Rutgers/Minnesota
Really, all crossovers but Michigan/MSU and maybe Purdue/Illinois could rotate though.
Purdue has been better than Illinois for many years now. The goal was to take the weakest team in the West and move them East along with Sparty moving West. It would accomplish a similar goal though.
And you would only have to have one fixed cross-over instead of three. That would enable the two divisions to see each other more.
Now compared to the current system, Michigan would see each team in the west only 6 out of 18 years instead of 8 as now (current system has a basic design of playing IU/PU 6 out of 18 and the other 6-8 times. 6X1+8X6=54 cross-division games--3 per year over 18 years).
Why would Michigan State want to move to the West? If I were Michigan State, I would oppose it
Lot easier for Michigan state to win the west than east. You could do
A: Rutgers, Maryland, penn state, Ohio state, Michigan, northwestern, Illinois
B: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan state, Indiana, Purdue
(07-21-2019 07:37 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ] (07-21-2019 07:29 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]Swapping Sparty with Purdue would help to even out the competitive balance of the conference. They’d need a protected crossover with Michigan though. You run into some trouble in that Sparty values their match ups with Ohio St and Penn St and they’d also be losing a trophy game with Indiana. The bigger problem is that I’m rivalry week Mich St would need to play an East school—Penn St, Rutgers, or Maryland. Cross Division scheduling would have to insure that they get Mich and one of those 3 as part of their 3 games against the East.
Such scheduling is certainly possible. Something like this?
Year 1-2: Michigan, Ohio State, Rutgers
Year 3-4: Michigan, Indiana, Penn State
Year 5-6: Michigan, Maryland, Purdue
Perfect
(07-21-2019 12:56 PM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]B: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan state, Indiana, Purdue
aka the Graveyard division
what was wrong with Leaders and Legends?
(07-21-2019 05:31 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (07-21-2019 12:56 PM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]B: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan state, Indiana, Purdue
what was wrong with Leaders and Legends?
Everything
(07-21-2019 05:31 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (07-21-2019 12:56 PM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]B: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan state, Indiana, Purdue
aka the Graveyard division
what was wrong with Leaders and Legends?
The names, mainly. Also separated Iowa and Wisconsin.
This might have worked instead:
EAST/WEST
Illinois/Northwestern
Indiana/Minnesota
Michigan/Michigan State
Ohio State/Wisconsin
Penn State/Nebraska
Purdue/Iowa
... which is a straight east/west split except MSU and Illinois are swapped, as the OP suggests for the current Big Ten. It's also the same as Leaders/Legends except Michigan and Wisconsin are swapped.
(07-21-2019 08:57 AM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]Should move Michigan state to the west with annual cross over games of
MSU -UM
NW- Rutgers
ILL- Ohio state
WIS - Purdue
MIN- Maryland
Iowa - Indiana
Neb - penn state
Why force unnecessary crossovers on an entire conference?
Iowa Indiana as a protected game
(07-22-2019 08:06 AM)ColumbusCard Wrote: [ -> ] (07-21-2019 08:57 AM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]Should move Michigan state to the west with annual cross over games of
MSU -UM
NW- Rutgers
ILL- Ohio state
WIS - Purdue
MIN- Maryland
Iowa - Indiana
Neb - penn state
Why force unnecessary crossovers on an entire conference?
Iowa Indiana as a protected game
Exactly. Its a bad idea and fans will hate it.
(07-21-2019 05:31 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (07-21-2019 12:56 PM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]B: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan state, Indiana, Purdue
aka the Graveyard division
what was wrong with Leaders and Legends?
Honestly the 3 thing that doomed Legends/Leaders were:
1. The names themselves were exceedingly arrogant.
2. Unless you followed NCAA football closely you had no idea who was in what division... Worse you couldn't even guess.
3. There was always a high probability that Ohio State and Michigan could play in back to back weeks, lessening the value of the rivalry and stewing in misery for a whole year to seek revenge.
As an Illini guy, I like this proposal... but if I'm looking at it from the perspective of the rest of the Big Ten schools, it's completely DOA.
If this were to occur, Michigan - Michigan State would obviously need to be a protected crossover game. This would mean that the rest of the West teams would play Michigan even *less* than they do now, which would simply be unacceptable to those schools (and it's already too little from their perspective). We can debate all day on that how it's theoretically not as big of a change, but that's not going to fly. Playing Michigan and Ohio State are what ultimately matters to the "original" Big Ten schools, so even the slightest reduction compared to the rotation now would receive a ton of pushback. No one is bothered by playing Indiana or Purdue less (which is the only protected crossover in today's alignment), but EVERYONE is bothered by playing Michigan and Ohio State less.
Ultimately, if you're going to have divisions, then you have to K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple Stupid). It's got to be straight geography. Every attempt to gerrymander competitiveness ultimately backfires (see the Legends and Leaders divisions of the Big Ten) and it's always variable over the course of time, whereas geography is fixed and never changes.
(07-22-2019 09:23 AM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote: [ -> ] (07-21-2019 05:31 PM)EvilVodka Wrote: [ -> ] (07-21-2019 12:56 PM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]B: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan state, Indiana, Purdue
aka the Graveyard division
what was wrong with Leaders and Legends?
Honestly the 3 thing that doomed Legends/Leaders were:
1. The names themselves were exceedingly arrogant.
2. Unless you followed NCAA football closely you had no idea who was in what division... Worse you couldn't even guess.
3. There was always a high probability that Ohio State and Michigan could play in back to back weeks, lessening the value of the rivalry and stewing in misery for a whole year to seek revenge.
So it would lessen the value of the rivalry while simultaneously stoking the fires of the rivalry?