So with UConn announcing that they'll be leaving, and the AAC stating that they'll be pushing for complete commitment to the exit clause of their membership ($10m exit fee and full separation) there would conceivably be a spot open. Just trying to start a discussion and see what would you guys think about that conference as an option for UT?
Our attendance will not rise with "improved" competition. Athletic department costs will skyrocket with increased plane travel. And our media market will not move the needle for AAC. Non starter in my view
If it didn't work out for UConn why would UT be any better suited? And looks like ACC will either pick up affiliation with an additional bball team and football from different schools or look for a school that can add value in both sports - and I don't see UT attractive to the ACC under either model.
(06-24-2019 10:01 AM)indianasniff Wrote: [ -> ]Our attendance will not rise with "improved" competition. Athletic department costs will skyrocket with increased plane travel. And our media market will not move the needle for AAC. Non starter in my view
With you on this. I think it's a non-starter both ways - for the university and the AAC.
I agree with what you're both saying, however, playing devil's advocate here for the sake of discussion:
With the increase in media rights disbursements (+$7M/year), CFP Disbursements (+$1M/year), General Bowl Disbursements (+$1.2M/year), and NCAA Tournament Credits (+$2M/year), the athletics department would stand to gain roughly $10M-$11M per year in latent revenue from the move to another conference. I would argue that with nationally recognized programs like Cincinnati and Memphis in basketball, and Houston, Cincinnati, and UCF in football, attendance likely would go up (or at the very least pricing would), but the more important thing to consider is that it has been proven that perception of athletics is a factor in enrollment for general student bodies. I could see the improvement of athletics/conference affiliation having a positive effect on student enrollment figures, but would the increase in budget requirements (up to $40M/year in operating expenses) outweigh the gain in revenue (~$10M/year) plus the potential increase in enrollment.
UT would be moving from a conference that is a 1-bid league to one that is 3-4 per year in basketball, it would go to a more nationally recognized conference that would allow for Toledo's brand to permeate other markets, and you can't tell me that a Top 10 ranked UCF or Top 25 ranked Cincinnati/Houston wouldn't draw more on a Saturday than Ball State would on a Tuesday night...the AAC media deal would basically move all games back to Thursday through Saturday, with each team only allowed two non-Saturday games per year, which in and of itself would be a boon for football attendance and watch-ability for fans given the increased TV slots.
Again, I completely understand your points, just wanted to push discussion a bit more. I personally don't believe the conference would actively seek out a school like Toledo, but I also didn't think they would look at Tulane...hell, Toledo has a MUCH better claim that Tulane ever had/has.
Buffalo to the AAC and UCONN will replace Buffalo in the MAC as a football only school.
(06-24-2019 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]Buffalo to the AAC and UCONN will replace Buffalo in the MAC as a football only school.
Personally, that's a terrible trade for the MAC. UConn football is an afterthought at best, and they basically forced UMass to do the opposite a few years ago...so I doubt member institutions would allow it now.
ҞAttendance would go up. Improved recruiting. AAC has more of a national impact.
Move forward or fall back.
AAC has more of a Southern flair. Even UC and Temple seem like odd men out at times. I don't see the AAC having an interest in UT. With that being said, UT must judge it's success nationally and strive to be at the top of G5's.
(06-24-2019 10:38 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]Buffalo to the AAC and UCONN will replace Buffalo in the MAC as a football only school.
Personally, that's a terrible trade for the MAC. UConn football is an afterthought at best, and they basically forced UMass to do the opposite a few years ago...so I doubt member institutions would allow it now.
The AAC is not going to take a school with a 26K football stadium and 7.4K basketball arena. This is a league of mostly southern schools who would more likely pick off a CUSA school like Marshall, Middle Tennessee or UAB over Toledo. Or just not add anybody.
I hope the MAC doesn't rent another school until they find a better home.
AAC average FB attendance 2018:
Tulsa 17,098
Tulane 18,015
SMU 19,383
UConn 20,924
Temple 28,470
Houston 29,838
Memphis 30,091
UCinn 30,178
Navy 31,464
ECU 32,908
USF 38,517
UCF 44,019
(06-24-2019 11:59 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 10:38 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]Buffalo to the AAC and UCONN will replace Buffalo in the MAC as a football only school.
Personally, that's a terrible trade for the MAC. UConn football is an afterthought at best, and they basically forced UMass to do the opposite a few years ago...so I doubt member institutions would allow it now.
The AAC is not going to take a school with a 26K football stadium and 7.4K basketball arena. This is a league of mostly southern schools who would more likely pick off a CUSA school like Marshall, Middle Tennessee or UAB over Toledo. Or just not add anybody.
I hope the MAC doesn't rent another school until they find a better home.
Realistically speaking, if UT were to sell out, they would have a "larger" stadium than 3 of the current members (Temple, Tulane, and Tulsa), and already have a larger arena than 4 of the members (Tulane, ECU, SMU, and Houston) and are right there with Tulsa and Temple when they play at the Liacouras. It's not super far-fetched. Hell, look at market size...they're bigger than ECU and Wichita State and comparable to Tulsa and Tulane. Can you tell literally no one knows why Tulane was added?
And when you consider that there is room to expand the GB should the need arise, they're in a MUCH better situation than two of the AAC's current members (Tulsa and Tulane who both bring literally nothing of value to the conference).
If Buffalo leaves I believe we would add a team in the west direction to pair with NIU. Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Western Illinois. Would fix a lot of scheduling problems with rivalry matchups
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(06-24-2019 01:26 PM)indianasniff Wrote: [ -> ]If Buffalo leaves I believe we would add a team in the west direction to pair with NIU. Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Western Illinois. Would fix a lot of scheduling problems with rivalry matchups
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You do realize the state of Illinois is basically broke and none of these Illinois schools could afford to move up.
(06-24-2019 01:06 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 11:59 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 10:38 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]Buffalo to the AAC and UCONN will replace Buffalo in the MAC as a football only school.
Personally, that's a terrible trade for the MAC. UConn football is an afterthought at best, and they basically forced UMass to do the opposite a few years ago...so I doubt member institutions would allow it now.
The AAC is not going to take a school with a 26K football stadium and 7.4K basketball arena. This is a league of mostly southern schools who would more likely pick off a CUSA school like Marshall, Middle Tennessee or UAB over Toledo. Or just not add anybody.
I hope the MAC doesn't rent another school until they find a better home.
Realistically speaking, if UT were to sell out, they would have a "larger" stadium than 3 of the current members (Temple, Tulane, and Tulsa), and already have a larger arena than 4 of the members (Tulane, ECU, SMU, and Houston) and are right there with Tulsa and Temple when they play at the Liacouras. It's not super far-fetched. Hell, look at market size...they're bigger than ECU and Wichita State and comparable to Tulsa and Tulane. Can you tell literally no one knows why Tulane was added?
And when you consider that there is room to expand the GB should the need arise, they're in a MUCH better situation than two of the AAC's current members (Tulsa and Tulane who both bring literally nothing of value to the conference).
Some people just enjoy playing directional schools with no brand name outside of NIU. The bigger question would UC want to share the State of Ohio with Toledo?
(06-24-2019 01:58 PM)utpotts Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 01:06 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 11:59 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 10:38 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote: [ -> ]Buffalo to the AAC and UCONN will replace Buffalo in the MAC as a football only school.
Personally, that's a terrible trade for the MAC. UConn football is an afterthought at best, and they basically forced UMass to do the opposite a few years ago...so I doubt member institutions would allow it now.
The AAC is not going to take a school with a 26K football stadium and 7.4K basketball arena. This is a league of mostly southern schools who would more likely pick off a CUSA school like Marshall, Middle Tennessee or UAB over Toledo. Or just not add anybody.
I hope the MAC doesn't rent another school until they find a better home.
Realistically speaking, if UT were to sell out, they would have a "larger" stadium than 3 of the current members (Temple, Tulane, and Tulsa), and already have a larger arena than 4 of the members (Tulane, ECU, SMU, and Houston) and are right there with Tulsa and Temple when they play at the Liacouras. It's not super far-fetched. Hell, look at market size...they're bigger than ECU and Wichita State and comparable to Tulsa and Tulane. Can you tell literally no one knows why Tulane was added?
And when you consider that there is room to expand the GB should the need arise, they're in a MUCH better situation than two of the AAC's current members (Tulsa and Tulane who both bring literally nothing of value to the conference).
Some people just enjoy playing directional schools with no brand name outside of NIU. The bigger question would UC want to share the State of Ohio with Toledo?
Absolutely not...that's probably the easiest question in all of this. Elevating a school in your own state would effectively hamstring your recruitment and perception pretty significantly, however, if 75% of the schools want a more significant presence in the 6th largest state in the Union and the 4th best state for HS football recruiting, then it doesn't really matter what UC thinks.
(06-24-2019 01:56 PM)utpotts Wrote: [ -> ] (06-24-2019 01:26 PM)indianasniff Wrote: [ -> ]If Buffalo leaves I believe we would add a team in the west direction to pair with NIU. Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Western Illinois. Would fix a lot of scheduling problems with rivalry matchups
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You do realize the state of Illinois is basically broke and none of these Illinois schools could afford to move up.
Yeah...IMO, I would think the MAC would go for a school like WKU far before they look at Illinois specifically for that reason.
A lot of small time thinking permeates this board at times.
If people are happy with the status quo and to stay in the MAC, so be it.
Bottom line, attendance will go up when the UCFs, Houstons, and Cincys of the world come to the GB and Savage...
As Bearcat man stated, but I disagree, was that perception of the University along with recruiting would suffer. I believe to grow the brand with the company you keep (AAC) in my opinion is a win-win situation, as far as recruitment of students, and possibly an influx of more sizable donations...
(06-24-2019 03:04 PM)FMRocket Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of small time thinking permeates this board at times.
If people are happy with the status quo and to stay in the MAC, so be it.
Bottom line, attendance will go up when the UCFs, Houstons, and Cincys of the world come to the GB and Savage...
As Bearcat man stated, but I disagree, is that perception of the University along with recruiting would suffer. I believe to grow the brand with the company you keep (AAC) in my opinion is a win-win situation, as far as recruitment of students, and possibly an influx of more sizable donations...
A lot of small time thinking goes on with the confines of Bancroft St too.
(06-24-2019 03:04 PM)FMRocket Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of small time thinking permeates this board at times.
If people are happy with the status quo and to stay in the MAC, so be it.
Bottom line, attendance will go up when the UCFs, Houstons, and Cincys of the world come to the GB and Savage...
As Bearcat man stated, but I disagree, is that perception of the University along with recruiting would suffer. I believe to grow the brand with the company you keep (AAC) in my opinion is a win-win situation, as far as recruitment of students, and possibly an influx of more sizable donations...
This echoes my sentiment as well. I do see the value in staying in the MAC as far as stability goes but if the administration truly wants to commit to growth through athletics, then the MAC is not the place to cultivate it.
As far as I see it, we have our heads in the sand if we think that UCF, Houston, and the like are not a better brand of athletics right now. The cost is tough to swallow on the surface when it comes to items such as travel and the non-revenue sports but you have to look at the net cost against increased revenue from joining the conference via TV deals, bowl payouts, etc. AAC teams will absolutely draw better in football and basketball, the conference has proven that they and their members are committed to growing their brands and they largely continually seek members that are based in moderate to very large cities.
In the end, I will be rooting for our Rockets no matter the conference, but I would love to see a roll of the dice here if for some reason we were considered (granted I see it as highly unlikely even if UT were to push for it).
67 days. Go Rockets!
Has Marshall benefited by leaving the MAC for Conference USA?