CSNbbs

(06-26-2019 10:13 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 06:59 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]AAC is definitely a better hoops league than the A10.

In 2019, yes, the AAC was better, mostly due to the strength of Houston, the first team from either conference to make the Sweet 16 since 2014. But traditionally they are about even.

Conference Year Bids Record Notes
AAC 2014 4 9-3 Conn won Champ
AAC 2015 2 1-2 All Out in R32
AAC 2016 4 1-4 All Out in R32
AAC 2017 2 1-2 All Out in R32
AAC 2018 3 2-3 All Out in R32
AAC 2019 4 3-4 Houston made S16
Total 6 Years 19 17-18

Conference Year Bids Record Notes
A-10 2014 6 4-6 Dayton made E8
A-10 2015 3 2-3 All Out in R32
A-10 2016 3 2-3 All Out in R32
A-10 2017 3 1-3 All Out in R32
A-10 2018 3 2-3 All Out in R32
A-10 2019 2 0-2 All Out in R64
Total 6 Years 20 11-20

There’s a trend in the A10 when you look at NCAAT bids. AAC looks better in that regard, so that’s the basis for my opinion.

(06-26-2019 10:21 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 09:56 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote: [ -> ]wow, I didnt realize it until i just looked. uconn was 0-8 in conference and 1-11 last year with a 7 point win over Rhode island.

umass was 4-8, wins over Duquesne, charlotte, Uconn, & liberty - how satsifying as a umass fan. that must make your genitilia feel bigger

how is that fbs move up working out for these two?

both former CAA / yankee conference mates would be reliable wins for us on homecoming or parents weekend in a mythical east coast conference.

I do think we would enjoy playing both UMass & UConn again. I certainly don’t think JMU is very similar to either athletically as far as ceiling. I think we agree.

I don’t get the d!ck-measuring references for FBS. Why is UMass’ experience projected as JMU’s experience? I can’t tell if you’re being honest in this discussion or not.

see DM2 post in one of these threads. i dont have a napoleon complex at the FCS level as many fbs'ers seem to have. I believe we are viewed by most outsiders as above the majoritiy of the g5. based on my anecdotal discussion with outsiders, our attendance, recruiting success, fbs wins, etc, etc.

again, not opposed to the right fbs move, but not p@n!s related.

Yeah I don't think the UMass/UConn/etc. experience in moving up is what we'd see with JMU, I think App State is probably a better comparison right now. If we'd just gone Sun Belt around when they did it's hard to tell how it'd have gone, but post-Withers/Houston I think any move up would work well as a stepping stone. Sure we wouldn't be pumped to see JMU move to the Sun Belt or CUSA like we would to see an AAC move, but it'd position us well for the next time something like this comes along.

Like I've mentioned before, purely from a football perspective I think Appy and JMU should look like a couple of the most attractive options as far as someone who would be getting a clear significant upgrade in conference and that you can most likely count on to continue to improve with the opportunity. Obviously they might look at it that way, they might care more about TV markets, might weigh MBB in to the equation more heavily than we'd like to see right now, might even give in to the money Liberty is willing to throw around... Although if a conference was willing to do that then they probably wouldn't have had to go the independent route in the first place.

(06-26-2019 10:23 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 10:13 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 06:59 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]AAC is definitely a better hoops league than the A10.

In 2019, yes, the AAC was better, mostly due to the strength of Houston, the first team from either conference to make the Sweet 16 since 2014. But traditionally they are about even.

Conference Year Bids Record Notes
AAC 2014 4 9-3 Conn won Champ
AAC 2015 2 1-2 All Out in R32
AAC 2016 4 1-4 All Out in R32
AAC 2017 2 1-2 All Out in R32
AAC 2018 3 2-3 All Out in R32
AAC 2019 4 3-4 Houston made S16
Total 6 Years 19 17-18

Conference Year Bids Record Notes
A-10 2014 6 4-6 Dayton made E8
A-10 2015 3 2-3 All Out in R32
A-10 2016 3 2-3 All Out in R32
A-10 2017 3 1-3 All Out in R32
A-10 2018 3 2-3 All Out in R32
A-10 2019 2 0-2 All Out in R64
Total 6 Years 20 11-20

There’s a trend in the A10 when you look at NCAAT bids. AAC looks better in that regard, so that’s the basis for my opinion.

The thing is, the AAC was established as a football conference first. Where as the A10 is "all in" regarding basketball. I know there's an exception with Wichita, but that was primarily to make right the Navy situation, otherwise, it would never have happened. The AAC could have plucked from the A10 if it was that much below the AAC. Which, IMHO, have teams equal to Wichita State in MBB history. Furthermore, I haven't a problem saying had WSU not been in the MVC they'd never had 14 NCAA tourney appearances. The competition just wasn't there to compete for titles. Though, I do agree the AAC has a slight perceived favor over the A10 but believe that to be due to UConn, Houston, Cincy, and Memphis past success and one of those is the root of this thread.

So the A10 is a better hoops league than the AAC in 2020? Please include the UConn loss in your equation.

(06-26-2019 06:53 AM)fishingduke12 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 06:46 AM)formerjmusprinter84 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-25-2019 10:48 AM)Potomac Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-25-2019 10:34 AM)formerjmusprinter84 Wrote: [ -> ]Tuscaloosa, AL has about 100K population and a rural location geographically.
Auburn, AL about 65K.....rural area
Eugene, OR about 170K but rural for miles and miles all around

Longer established sports programs with storied histories but proof that long term lower populations and rural locations aren't always a deterrent to building high level sports teams and fan support.

All of this means nothing to those who have the power to make decisions. They want to see "markets" and "potential fans". Harrisonburg has neither.

My point exactly with the three examples above. There is not a large "local" market or fanbase in those three cities either but they draw from other large metropolitan areas where they have alumni. When my daughter attended Alabama we would drive from Atlanta to see games. (as do many of their fans) I fly from Florida to see JMU games and my college roommate comes from Atlanta up to JMU games. I know many others that come from out of state to games. The not too far metropolitan local markets for JMU are Richmond and DC but many alums are from MD, NJ, PA and are not that far from JMU. Wouldn't be difficult for JMU to draw 30K+ fans to home games if the stadium were to be expanded and the move to FBS was made.

You said it yourself, these programs have been established since before the NCAA became a business and as Potomac stated, the ones making decisions don't care about "potential" anything. They want to see who is going to bring in the most money now.

Go back and read Potomac's original post "Harrisonburg, VA is doing more to hurt us than any other factor" and the one about the population of Harrisonburg being 134,000. Those are the ones I was originally responding to. My point is that smaller towns in rural areas can still draw large numbers of fans to college sporting events (mostly from outside the area). Those are just some of the larger, more established ones that over the years have thrived and continue to do so. App State is probably a better example as they average about the same amount of fans per home game as the Dukes and Boone is in the middle of nowhere with a population in the 20,000 range.

(06-26-2019 11:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]So the A10 is a better hoops league than the AAC in 2020? Please include the UConn loss in your equation.

No, I would not say the A10 is better. Sorry I gave that impression, I'm saying the perceived better conference is the AAC, but only very marginally better and not enough for a basketball school to make a change unless there is a geographic advantage for the school. Basically, I can't see VCU thinking the AAC would be a better fit for themselves than staying put.

(06-26-2019 12:30 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 11:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]So the A10 is a better hoops league than the AAC in 2020? Please include the UConn loss in your equation.

No, I would not say the A10 is better. Sorry I gave that impression, I'm saying the perceived better conference is the AAC, but only very marginally better and not enough for a basketball school to make a change unless there is a geographic advantage for the school. Basically, I can't see VCU thinking the AAC would be a better fit for themselves than staying put.

there is zero chance VCU would leave the basketball-centric A10 for the football-centric AAC. No way.

i can see VCU pushing to be the 12th team in the Big East. But a move to the AAC makes absolutely no sense for them.

(06-26-2019 12:40 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 12:30 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 11:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]So the A10 is a better hoops league than the AAC in 2020? Please include the UConn loss in your equation.

No, I would not say the A10 is better. Sorry I gave that impression, I'm saying the perceived better conference is the AAC, but only very marginally better and not enough for a basketball school to make a change unless there is a geographic advantage for the school. Basically, I can't see VCU thinking the AAC would be a better fit for themselves than staying put.

there is zero chance VCU would leave the basketball-centric A10 for the football-centric AAC. No way.

i can see VCU pushing to be the 12th team in the Big East. But a move to the AAC makes absolutely no sense for them.

That's my point of view as well, but I'll be darned if I haven't seen schools make some odd moves. Frankly, I'm still trying to figure out how Maryland has benefitted from their move.

(06-26-2019 12:46 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 12:40 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 12:30 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 11:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]So the A10 is a better hoops league than the AAC in 2020? Please include the UConn loss in your equation.

No, I would not say the A10 is better. Sorry I gave that impression, I'm saying the perceived better conference is the AAC, but only very marginally better and not enough for a basketball school to make a change unless there is a geographic advantage for the school. Basically, I can't see VCU thinking the AAC would be a better fit for themselves than staying put.

there is zero chance VCU would leave the basketball-centric A10 for the football-centric AAC. No way.

i can see VCU pushing to be the 12th team in the Big East. But a move to the AAC makes absolutely no sense for them.

That's my point of view as well, but I'll be darned if I haven't seen schools make some odd moves. Frankly, I'm still trying to figure out how Maryland has benefitted from their move.

Money. Maryland is making much more money in the Big10. What has the Big10 gained is a better question.

(06-26-2019 12:56 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 12:46 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 12:40 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 12:30 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 11:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]So the A10 is a better hoops league than the AAC in 2020? Please include the UConn loss in your equation.

No, I would not say the A10 is better. Sorry I gave that impression, I'm saying the perceived better conference is the AAC, but only very marginally better and not enough for a basketball school to make a change unless there is a geographic advantage for the school. Basically, I can't see VCU thinking the AAC would be a better fit for themselves than staying put.

there is zero chance VCU would leave the basketball-centric A10 for the football-centric AAC. No way.

i can see VCU pushing to be the 12th team in the Big East. But a move to the AAC makes absolutely no sense for them.

That's my point of view as well, but I'll be darned if I haven't seen schools make some odd moves. Frankly, I'm still trying to figure out how Maryland has benefitted from their move.

Money. Maryland is making much more money in the Big10. What has the Big10 gained is a better question.

money, more money. maryland gave the b10 network a presence in the DC market and their cable contract entitled the B10 to somewhere like $15 m more a year

(06-26-2019 12:30 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 11:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]So the A10 is a better hoops league than the AAC in 2020? Please include the UConn loss in your equation.

No, I would not say the A10 is better. Sorry I gave that impression, I'm saying the perceived better conference is the AAC, but only very marginally better and not enough for a basketball school to make a change unless there is a geographic advantage for the school. Basically, I can't see VCU thinking the AAC would be a better fit for themselves than staying put.

I agree, but my POV is that UMass would absolutely go if offered. I agree VCU would be foolish to go, but I've seen dumber moves.

(06-26-2019 02:45 PM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 12:30 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 11:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote: [ -> ]So the A10 is a better hoops league than the AAC in 2020? Please include the UConn loss in your equation.

No, I would not say the A10 is better. Sorry I gave that impression, I'm saying the perceived better conference is the AAC, but only very marginally better and not enough for a basketball school to make a change unless there is a geographic advantage for the school. Basically, I can't see VCU thinking the AAC would be a better fit for themselves than staying put.

I agree, but my POV is that UMass would absolutely go if offered. I agree VCU would be foolish to go, but I've seen dumber moves.

UMass should absolutely go if offered. They made a lot of sense for the AAC with UConn in the conference, not so much now. We can make a better case now than UMass, at least we are fairly central to the eastern schools, UMass is now an outlier. We are closer to the closest school to UMass, Temple. The AAC has to realize the New England states do not support college football, not even Boston College. With the AAC being a football first conference, they should stay away from that part of the country.

Man, I want us to be their choice too and agree we offer a lot more than UMass in the current and future.

wsva 55am mentioned FBS today with the obligatory fcs homer slant and obligatory comment that JMU is "intentional" & "calculated" which has been repeated over and over for a decade now. I call bull **** on JMU being intentional & calculated, JMU has athletic facilities with a $200,000,000 price tag and JMU & fans still don''t know what it is we want...wsva gleefully questioned today whether or not JMU even wants FBS, intentional and calculated?

(06-26-2019 09:48 PM)Purplehazed Wrote: [ -> ]wsva 55am mentioned FBS today with the obligatory fcs homer slant and obligatory comment that JMU is "intentional" & "calculated" which has been repeated over and over for a decade now. I call bull **** on JMU being intentional & calculated, JMU has athletic facilities with a $200,000,000 price tag and JMU & fans still don''t know what it is we want...wsva gleefully questioned today whether or not JMU even wants FBS, intentional and calculated?

You don’t build the facilities at JMU by accident. That alone speaks to intentionality.

(06-26-2019 09:48 PM)Purplehazed Wrote: [ -> ]wsva 55am mentioned FBS today with the obligatory fcs homer slant and obligatory comment that JMU is "intentional" & "calculated" which has been repeated over and over for a decade now. I call bull **** on JMU being intentional & calculated, JMU has athletic facilities with a $200,000,000 price tag and JMU & fans still don''t know what it is we want...wsva gleefully questioned today whether or not JMU even wants FBS, intentional and calculated?

We built facilities that are used to capacity.

Football stadium - full, every year we’ve averaged more than the capacity of the old stadium. Demand was there.
Softball stadium - they had to bring in temporary bleachers

Basketball is tbd, but I’d bet the uva game sells out, which it didn’t do at the run down convo.

We aren’t Charlotte or Fau, who spent millions on facilities they have never filled.

(06-26-2019 09:56 PM)Longhorn Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2019 09:48 PM)Purplehazed Wrote: [ -> ]wsva 55am mentioned FBS today with the obligatory fcs homer slant and obligatory comment that JMU is "intentional" & "calculated" which has been repeated over and over for a decade now. I call bull **** on JMU being intentional & calculated, JMU has athletic facilities with a $200,000,000 price tag and JMU & fans still don''t know what it is we want...wsva gleefully questioned today whether or not JMU even wants FBS, intentional and calculated?

You don’t build the facilities at JMU by accident. That alone speaks to intentionality.

Agreed in most cases. In JMU's case where is the intersection of cautious, intentional, calculated and rudderless?

At some point past or present JMU should have or will have to pursue a measured goal.

If JMU is not interest in CUSA, Belt or MAC and the AAC won't invite a fcs startup all of the intention in the world adds up to squat and JMU ends up with a quarter billion in underutilized athletic infrastructure.

This is why I have asked for evidence that JMU has reason to believe the AAC would now, a year from now or ever would invite a fcs program to their "P6" football conference.

I think the facilities needed to be done regardless of the conference affiliation. Folks are down on the CAA and I get it but it is still a mid major league and this is still D1 athletics. Post 2006 (referenced in the Bourne article) JMU made a decision to focus and be more competitive in the sports that they sponsor at the D1 level. Many of those programs in order to be competitive nationally needed new facilities regardless of the conference they are in. I've also heard Bourne speak about the potential of even adding onto the stadium as an FCS member in the future. I'm sure that would drive a bunch of people absolutely nuts but the point is Bourne is projecting into the future and that's what you have to do when investing in facilities- you can't build for today you have to build for tomorrow.

This is based on the current attendance and the growth of JMU's alumni base and the Shenendoah Valley in general. The capacity for the new men's arena gave consideration to those growth metrics as well. Make no mistake facilities are part of the equation for not only being able to move up but being able to compete when you move up immediately. It's why a lot of these other schools are really scuffling now- they are trying to build after the fact when their expenses aren’t higher and their revenues are significantly higher to go with it.

you guys complaining about facilities too should realize,

had we not made all these improvements, we'd still be in the old BFS and playing in the Convo for the foreseeable future, because the Cox Bill would have prevented it from happening more than likely.

both projects were grandfathered in as they were on the books before the Cox Bill.

you think FBS would be interested in JMU with the facilities we USED to have?

be thankful it all got done when it did and that we don't really have any massive projects left to do....just relatively minor ones like a permanent indoor facility (Convo conversion) and the other side of BFS which will likely be funded with an FBS move.