Irrespective of the overall epidemic of transfers, I've heard that Paris has exacerbated the problem at Chatt. Note that our 'high-end" players have not transferred and from all outward appearances, have not sniffed around. I mean, can you imagine the interest Jeromy would have gotten had he decided to transfer?
To refocus, can a mid-major coach rebuild a program using high school seniors?
Imagine just for giggles that player X chose Elon because he could go there and excel on a subpar team, enter the transfer portal after one year...
Is the Forbes JuCo model the future of successful mid-major basketball? For high school seniors, are the mid majors now nothing more than the development league for the P5?
I believe the large majority of student-athletes are capable of finding information, judging risks, and getting help from those who want them to succeed to make decisions regarding their future. I also believe that they are the ones who would and should suffer any negative consequences of their decisions. Consequently, I see the transfer portal as positive overall. It gives the student-athletes more control over their future.
Does it make it easier for players to transfer that maybe should've stayed? Yes, it does. But the player is the one who suffers; I'd argue that learning from that bad decision at age 20 prevents an even worse decisions at 25, 30, and so on, and helps them much more than a degree or a season scoring 20 ppg does.
(05-31-2019 11:17 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2019 11:10 AM)etsubuc Wrote: [ -> ]I really didnt mean for that part of my post to cause a stir and get us off the topic of the transfer portal, but things do need to be addressed on a larger scale as everything ties into each other. For some reason, basketball and football has more issues with transfers than other sports, and I think the rules for basketball should be more like baseball.
More money in those sports, more of a need to getting playing time/ be seen for next level. Other sports it is free money for a degree so no reason not to stay loyal.
Baseball is different in that the really goods one usually don't go to college anyway
and if they do go to college they have to stay 3 years, adding a transfer year would just slow them down.
Apples and oranges.
Baseball (and I think hockey) do it right in terms of providing a non-college path to get to the big leagues through the minor leagues. If you're good enough and persistent enough, you can get picked up by a major league team and work your way up through rookie, the various A-ball teams, AA, and AAA to get to the major leagues.
(06-01-2019 08:53 AM)frankenheimer Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2019 11:17 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2019 11:10 AM)etsubuc Wrote: [ -> ]I really didnt mean for that part of my post to cause a stir and get us off the topic of the transfer portal, but things do need to be addressed on a larger scale as everything ties into each other. For some reason, basketball and football has more issues with transfers than other sports, and I think the rules for basketball should be more like baseball.
More money in those sports, more of a need to getting playing time/ be seen for next level. Other sports it is free money for a degree so no reason not to stay loyal.
Baseball is different in that the really goods one usually don't go to college anyway
and if they do go to college they have to stay 3 years, adding a transfer year would just slow them down.
Apples and oranges.
Baseball (and I think hockey) do it right in terms of providing a non-college path to get to the big leagues through the minor leagues. If you're good enough and persistent enough, you can get picked up by a major league team and work your way up through rookie, the various A-ball teams, AA, and AAA to get to the major leagues.
Are colleges more or less the “minor leagues” for the NFL and NBA, free for the pro leagues at that? Especially at the Power Five level, aren’t the big athletics donors and college sports TV revenue giving the NFL and NBA a free minor league system? Make the NFL and NBA pay for their own minor league system like baseball, and if a kid can make it into their minors right out of high school, good for him. Or, have the pros pay the college athletic departments for developing players for them. Right now, there is something that smells about this whole college/NFL - NBA “arrangement”.
(06-01-2019 03:13 PM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ]Are colleges more or less the “minor leagues” for the NFL and NBA, free for the pro leagues at that?
Yes, they are, but it's not like colleges were fooled into this arrangement. The colleges get something out of this - exposure. I think of college sports as part of the marketing engine, the brand, if you will, for colleges. World-changing research and discoveries gets your school about 1% of the exposure that a college bowl appearance does. And I can pretty much guarantee that a cure for a disease wouldn't sell a single hat or T-shirt for the school.
It's a weird sort of arrangement. On one hand, the exposure helps schools sell themselves. On the other hand, the schools have to deal with the scandals, misbehavior, and bad press, largely football or basketball associated. I'm sure many would like to get rid of the programs, but they help with enrollment and donations so they just have to take the bad with the good.
(06-01-2019 03:13 PM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ]Are colleges more or less the “minor leagues” for the NFL and NBA, free for the pro leagues at that? Especially at the Power Five level, aren’t the big athletics donors and college sports TV revenue giving the NFL and NBA a free minor league system? Make the NFL and NBA pay for their own minor league system like baseball, and if a kid can make it into their minors right out of high school, good for him. Or, have the pros pay the college athletic departments for developing players for them. Right now, there is something that smells about this whole college/NFL - NBA “arrangement”.
Colleges would lose a ton of money, waterdowned product= less fans, less money.
competing minor league with the actual good players would cripple them even more.
(06-01-2019 08:11 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2019 03:13 PM)Buc66 Wrote: [ -> ]Are colleges more or less the “minor leagues” for the NFL and NBA, free for the pro leagues at that? Especially at the Power Five level, aren’t the big athletics donors and college sports TV revenue giving the NFL and NBA a free minor league system? Make the NFL and NBA pay for their own minor league system like baseball, and if a kid can make it into their minors right out of high school, good for him. Or, have the pros pay the college athletic departments for developing players for them. Right now, there is something that smells about this whole college/NFL - NBA “arrangement”.
Colleges would lose a ton of money, waterdowned product= less fans, less money.
competing minor league with the actual good players would cripple them even more.
Yea, it’s all about the MONEY. Money corrupts. It has corrupted this whole system to the core. And, all the hypocrisy and pretentiousness of this little “arrangement” that has been worked out between the colleges/NCAA and the NFL/NBA is repulsive and reprehensible.
(06-01-2019 06:51 AM)BucDoctor Wrote: [ -> ]To refocus, can a mid-major coach rebuild a program using high school seniors?
Imagine just for giggles that player X chose Elon because he could go there and excel on a subpar team, enter the transfer portal after one year...
Is the Forbes JuCo model the future of successful mid-major basketball? For high school seniors, are the mid majors now nothing more than the development league for the P5?
Best I can count Forbes has recruited only 5 freshmen in 5 years and Hodges will be the first player to play 3 years under Forbes, so obviously, no freshman has made it the distance yet.
(06-01-2019 06:51 AM)BucDoctor Wrote: [ -> ]To refocus, can a mid-major coach rebuild a program using high school seniors?
Imagine just for giggles that player X chose Elon because he could go there and excel on a subpar team, enter the transfer portal after one year...
Is the Forbes JuCo model the future of successful mid-major basketball? For high school seniors, are the mid majors now nothing more than the development league for the P5?
You ask a couple of good questions. I don't know if the JuCo transfer model is the future; it certainly seems to be Coach Forbes'. I can see some positives for it. You would hope that the incoming players would be more mature and less likely to transfer, especially since they have so little eligibility left. You should have a better idea on how they will play at your level. Seems like team continuity and the ability to mold a player to your system would be disadvantages.
You ask if the mid-majors are a development system for the bigger conferences. I would say not. The times I've paid attention to transfers, more often I've seen a transfer to an equal or lower-prestige program. Of course, a better study is to look at 50 or 100 random transfers in the last couple of years and see where they went and how they did. I have not the time or desire to do such a thing. I think that if you have NBA aspirations and you're good enough, the NBA will find you.
New NCAA "guidelines" proposed:
Proposed new transfer waiver guidelines
"In cases where an athlete was run off by a coach or essentially had their scholarship pulled for non-disciplinary reasons, the NCAA will require a written statement from the athletics director at the previous school stating whether the athlete would not have had an opportunity to return to the team and why the athlete is transferring. The committee is being instructed to deny cases where the athlete can’t document that they’ve been run off. That marks a change from prior protocol, where a key determining factor in "run off" situations was whether the previous school objected to the waiver request.
Though it’s unclear whether these guidelines will discourage schools from attempting to obtain waivers, they appear to be a patchwork attempt at addressing the narrative that the NCAA is moving toward free agency in the transfer market. These waivers, along with the introduction last fall of the so-called “transfer portal” that makes it easier for athletes to initiate the transfer process, have put the entire issue at the forefront of debate within the NCAA.
The numbers don't necessarily indicate that much has changed in terms of how the waivers are adjudicated. Last month, the Associated Press reported that the committee for legislative relief had approved 68% of waiver requests for football, which was actually a two-percentage point decrease compared to the previous four years. Overall requests across all sports increased to more than 250 in 2018-19 from more than 150 the previous year, according to AP."
Interesting article. I like the numbers; gives you some perspective. The total number in the transfer portal and the number actually transferring do not seem excessive. Impressions from coverage of a few high-profile transfers probably skew it to look like it some sort of epidemic when it's more like <5% that are actually in the portal.
(01-19-2020 05:48 PM)frankenheimer Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting article. I like the numbers; gives you some perspective. The total number in the transfer portal and the number actually transferring do not seem excessive. Impressions from coverage of a few high-profile transfers probably skew it to look like it some sort of epidemic when it's more like <5% that are actually in the portal.
At the end of the day, 700 players transferred. There are around 300-330 teams so that averages to about 2 players per team.
Approximately 1/3 of all teams had someone transfer, approximately 1/3 of all teams had 2 players transfer. Approximately 1/4 of all teams had 3 folks transfer...
So do these 1/3 of all teams just become the proving ground for the P5s? Are players transferring down? How will the pay for play rules impact the availability of talent in the non P5 conferences?
Oops, these numbers are only Div 1 men's basketball - somehow I missed that. The percentage is a little higher than I would have expected. I would have thought 5-10%, or about 1 player per team.
It's not clear from the article that there's any overwhelming trend any way, and that's what I would have expected. I don't know that the big conferences are robbing the smaller ones. Wouldn't surprise me if a few unscrupulous bigger conference teams go after a few players (through intermediaries, of course). But I'm guessing that the majority of transfers get the in portal after they get a dose of reality (positive or negative) and figure out they need a change.