(05-24-2019 07:33 PM)levydl Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 08:51 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: [ -> ]Skyblade continues to be the king of negative Bearcat prognostication. He's done a full 360 from his disposition during the Cronin era.
While everyone else is doing a 180 the other way.
David are you also sky blade? This is the second or third time I have noticed you come to his defense.
As I've said before, Bolton would be a good addition if he can get a waiver. I'd consider slightly below replacement level for LoJo. More of a scorer, but less of a slasher and distributor. If we have one or two of the Cumberland's it should allow him to play off-ball more, which I think is his natural position. Wonder if Bolton is waiting for Jarron to make a decision before he decides if he wants to come to UC.
(05-24-2019 03:35 PM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 12:23 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 09:17 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 09:03 AM)cincybb51 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 08:24 AM)dsquare Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the statitical wiki review. You've never seen the kid play, lol.
He surely would have given a thumbs down on players like Eric Hicks as being undersized. Seriously I am optimistic that we will have a deeper bench next year if we sign a few of these players we are looking at. With Moore being such a disappointment we had nobody off the bench last year that was a reliable scorer other than Broome. Yes to be a contender we need Cumberland back and unlike many I don't think we will return. Hopefully I am wrong and that his cousin is holding back for Jarron's announcement of returning. Of course Jaevin Cumberland maybe was waiting for the Michigan coaching search to be completed; hopefully he doesn't like Howard.
Nah, I'm actually quite high on Prince Gillam, who is very similar to Hicks in body type - look at the team picture, Gillam is listed as 6'7" but is actually probably only 6'5". I like athletic guys who can play solid D and have high ceilings - even if they don't all reach their ceiling. I'm not a fan of slow plodding bigs - especially undersized ones - they make me think of low/mid-majors and we should be able to do better then that. It's also hard to see how bigs who don't move well fit into Brannen's system of running and pressing. Maybe he he will turn out to be like Cronin was when it came to pressing - all talk.
Give me a guy with fewer basketball skills, but tons of potential over a guy with basketball skills but who has a low ceiling, especially when that guy is going to be sitting for a year.
So just to parse this out fully, you would prefer a kid who is definitely worse at basketball now, but has a slight chance to be better at the end of the road. Got it.
I'd say an athletic guy with fewer basketball skills is likely to be better a year or two down the road then Iorio. And Iorio has to sit on the bench for a year, so might as well get someone with more potential. Heck an athletic defensive player might be better than Iorio is now. American University fans considered him to be slow and a defensive liability, yeah he could score but being a liability on the defensive side of the court is just as bad as being a liability on the offensive end. And you can teach an athletic defender to play offense. But it's going to be hard for Iorio who is undersized and slow to ever become a good defender.
You've never seen the kid play, and honestly all you do is look at statistics. Quit pretending like you know basketball. You "can teach an athletic defender to play offense" is absolutely hilarious. That was definitely Mick's forte.
(05-24-2019 07:39 PM)@ES Trader Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 07:33 PM)levydl Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 08:51 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: [ -> ]Skyblade continues to be the king of negative Bearcat prognostication. He's done a full 360 from his disposition during the Cronin era.
While everyone else is doing a 180 the other way.
David are you also sky blade? This is the second or third time I have noticed you come to his defense.
they pro mick is all. just how it is
(05-24-2019 07:33 PM)levydl Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 08:51 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: [ -> ]Skyblade continues to be the king of negative Bearcat prognostication. He's done a full 360 from his disposition during the Cronin era.
While everyone else is doing a 180 the other way.
People knew what they had in mick. Everyone thought they were a first weekend team forever.
(05-24-2019 08:38 PM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]
As I've said before, Bolton would be a good addition if he can get a waiver. I'd consider slightly below replacement level for LoJo. More of a scorer, but less of a slasher and distributor. If we have one or two of the Cumberland's it should allow him to play off-ball more, which I think is his natural position. Wonder if Bolton is waiting for Jarron to make a decision before he decides if he wants to come to UC.
Bolton averaged 11 per game for PSU, but he is below LoJo as a replacement?
please explain this to me.
(05-24-2019 09:02 PM)dsquare Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 03:35 PM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 12:23 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 09:17 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 09:03 AM)cincybb51 Wrote: [ -> ]He surely would have given a thumbs down on players like Eric Hicks as being undersized. Seriously I am optimistic that we will have a deeper bench next year if we sign a few of these players we are looking at. With Moore being such a disappointment we had nobody off the bench last year that was a reliable scorer other than Broome. Yes to be a contender we need Cumberland back and unlike many I don't think we will return. Hopefully I am wrong and that his cousin is holding back for Jarron's announcement of returning. Of course Jaevin Cumberland maybe was waiting for the Michigan coaching search to be completed; hopefully he doesn't like Howard.
Nah, I'm actually quite high on Prince Gillam, who is very similar to Hicks in body type - look at the team picture, Gillam is listed as 6'7" but is actually probably only 6'5". I like athletic guys who can play solid D and have high ceilings - even if they don't all reach their ceiling. I'm not a fan of slow plodding bigs - especially undersized ones - they make me think of low/mid-majors and we should be able to do better then that. It's also hard to see how bigs who don't move well fit into Brannen's system of running and pressing. Maybe he he will turn out to be like Cronin was when it came to pressing - all talk.
Give me a guy with fewer basketball skills, but tons of potential over a guy with basketball skills but who has a low ceiling, especially when that guy is going to be sitting for a year.
So just to parse this out fully, you would prefer a kid who is definitely worse at basketball now, but has a slight chance to be better at the end of the road. Got it.
I'd say an athletic guy with fewer basketball skills is likely to be better a year or two down the road then Iorio. And Iorio has to sit on the bench for a year, so might as well get someone with more potential. Heck an athletic defensive player might be better than Iorio is now. American University fans considered him to be slow and a defensive liability, yeah he could score but being a liability on the defensive side of the court is just as bad as being a liability on the offensive end. And you can teach an athletic defender to play offense. But it's going to be hard for Iorio who is undersized and slow to ever become a good defender.
You've never seen the kid play, and honestly all you do is look at statistics. Quit pretending like you know basketball. You "can teach an athletic defender to play offense" is absolutely hilarious. That was definitely Mick's forte.
Sounds like he is about 23 and lives in his mom’s basement. Yet perhaps we are interested in his analysis.
(05-24-2019 09:37 PM)rtaylor Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 08:38 PM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]
As I've said before, Bolton would be a good addition if he can get a waiver. I'd consider slightly below replacement level for LoJo. More of a scorer, but less of a slasher and distributor. If we have one or two of the Cumberland's it should allow him to play off-ball more, which I think is his natural position. Wonder if Bolton is waiting for Jarron to make a decision before he decides if he wants to come to UC.
Bolton averaged 11 per game for PSU, but he is below LoJo as a replacement? please explain this to me.
I can explain this one. Mick Cronin recruited LoJo, while he did not recruit Bolton. Therefore, LoJo > Bolton.
(05-24-2019 09:37 PM)rtaylor Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 08:38 PM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]
As I've said before, Bolton would be a good addition if he can get a waiver. I'd consider slightly below replacement level for LoJo. More of a scorer, but less of a slasher and distributor. If we have one or two of the Cumberland's it should allow him to play off-ball more, which I think is his natural position. Wonder if Bolton is waiting for Jarron to make a decision before he decides if he wants to come to UC.
Bolton averaged 11 per game for PSU, but he is below LoJo as a replacement? please explain this to me.
I posted about it before, not going to find the old post, but I'll go by what I remember. Bolton played a lot more minutes then LoJo, so naturally he averaged more points. But his FG% wasn't good and his assist-to-TO ratio was horrible. He scored a lot of points because of minutes and volume. His decision making on passing and shot selection was questionable to bad. And he is worse defensively than LoJo. He is also not a natural PG and doesn't handle the ball as well as LoJo - and it still looks like we need a PG for next year. If Brannen is going to use a running/pressing team, LoJo would have been a much better PG for that than Bolton.
Where Bolton has the advantage is in 3-point shooting. He is a much better spot up shooter than LoJo was and he's not afraid to take big shots late in the game. If we get Cumberland back, Bolton would be able to provide a lot of value as a spot up 3-point shooter (unless Trevor Moore has a massive turnaround). Though Bolton may not come if we get both Cumberland's - a lot of Penn State fans were speculating he's transferring because he wants to be a starter.
But I think we need a PG more next year than we need another shooter. Both would be nice to have, but if I were picking between LoJo and Bolton I'd say LoJo is the easy choice.
(05-24-2019 11:25 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 09:02 PM)dsquare Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 03:35 PM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 12:23 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 09:17 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]Nah, I'm actually quite high on Prince Gillam, who is very similar to Hicks in body type - look at the team picture, Gillam is listed as 6'7" but is actually probably only 6'5". I like athletic guys who can play solid D and have high ceilings - even if they don't all reach their ceiling. I'm not a fan of slow plodding bigs - especially undersized ones - they make me think of low/mid-majors and we should be able to do better then that. It's also hard to see how bigs who don't move well fit into Brannen's system of running and pressing. Maybe he he will turn out to be like Cronin was when it came to pressing - all talk.
Give me a guy with fewer basketball skills, but tons of potential over a guy with basketball skills but who has a low ceiling, especially when that guy is going to be sitting for a year.
So just to parse this out fully, you would prefer a kid who is definitely worse at basketball now, but has a slight chance to be better at the end of the road. Got it.
I'd say an athletic guy with fewer basketball skills is likely to be better a year or two down the road then Iorio. And Iorio has to sit on the bench for a year, so might as well get someone with more potential. Heck an athletic defensive player might be better than Iorio is now. American University fans considered him to be slow and a defensive liability, yeah he could score but being a liability on the defensive side of the court is just as bad as being a liability on the offensive end. And you can teach an athletic defender to play offense. But it's going to be hard for Iorio who is undersized and slow to ever become a good defender.
You've never seen the kid play, and honestly all you do is look at statistics. Quit pretending like you know basketball. You "can teach an athletic defender to play offense" is absolutely hilarious. That was definitely Mick's forte.
Sounds like he is about 23 and lives in his mom’s basement. Yet perhaps we are interested in his analysis.
As I've said before, I wasn't an ******* last year when half the board hated on low rated Mick recruits. Though I did defend the recruits as I liked the potential of all of them.
But I was told we could do much better and Mick is a terrible recruiter. But now the goalposts have moved so back for Brannen that we are supposed to be excited by low-major guys. Imagine any fans last year being excited by Mick recruiting Vogt, Sorolla or Iorio.
Davenport was a good recruit and Brannen is trying to get some others (Bolton included).
But don't expect me to be excited by guys who look like they belong on a low major team. I wouldn't have been excited for them if Cronin got them and I'm not going to be with Brannen either. Guys who were back-ups for low major teams or an unathletic, undersized big who can't defend the 3 and is going to be shot over at the 4 just aren't my thing. I'll root for them if they come here and hope they prove me wrong, but Vogt, Sorolla and Iorio look like the belong on a low major and UC should be able to do better than that.
(05-25-2019 06:52 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]As I've said before, I wasn't an ******* last year when half the board hated on low rated Mick recruits. Though I did defend the recruits as I liked the potential of all of them.
But I was told we could do much better and Mick is a terrible recruiter. But now the goalposts have moved so back for Brannen that we are supposed to be excited by low-major guys. Imagine any fans last year being excited by Mick recruiting Vogt, Sorolla or Iorio.
Davenport was a good recruit and Brannen is trying to get some others (Bolton included).
But don't expect me to be excited by guys who look like they belong on a low major team. I wouldn't have been excited for them if Cronin got them and I'm not going to be with Brannen either. Guys who were back-ups for low major teams or an unathletic, undersized big who can't defend the 3 and is going to be shot over at the 4 just aren't my thing. I'll root for them if they come here and hope they prove me wrong, but Vogt, Sorolla and Iorio look like the belong on a low major and UC should be able to do better than that.
maybe when brannen's done picking thru the leftovers of the nineteen class people will stop beating this dead horse
(05-25-2019 08:15 AM)Lush Wrote: [ -> ] (05-25-2019 06:52 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]As I've said before, I wasn't an ******* last year when half the board hated on low rated Mick recruits. Though I did defend the recruits as I liked the potential of all of them.
But I was told we could do much better and Mick is a terrible recruiter. But now the goalposts have moved so back for Brannen that we are supposed to be excited by low-major guys. Imagine any fans last year being excited by Mick recruiting Vogt, Sorolla or Iorio.
Davenport was a good recruit and Brannen is trying to get some others (Bolton included).
But don't expect me to be excited by guys who look like they belong on a low major team. I wouldn't have been excited for them if Cronin got them and I'm not going to be with Brannen either. Guys who were back-ups for low major teams or an unathletic, undersized big who can't defend the 3 and is going to be shot over at the 4 just aren't my thing. I'll root for them if they come here and hope they prove me wrong, but Vogt, Sorolla and Iorio look like the belong on a low major and UC should be able to do better than that.
maybe when brannen's done picking thru the leftovers of the nineteen class people will stop beating this dead horse
Vogt and Iorio are basically 2020 class since they have to sit a year.
(05-24-2019 07:39 PM)@ES Trader Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 07:33 PM)levydl Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2019 08:51 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: [ -> ]Skyblade continues to be the king of negative Bearcat prognostication. He's done a full 360 from his disposition during the Cronin era.
While everyone else is doing a 180 the other way.
David are you also sky blade? This is the second or third time I have noticed you come to his defense.
I didn't defend him, and no I don't have two accounts on here (who are you, by the way?!). It's just amusing to me how the Everything-is-Terrible crowd is now so full of optimism for the very things they spent the last several years whining about incessantly. Hilarious too that they now can't stand any criticism or negativity.
I think “they” are full of optimism because we have a new coach who prepares a team to play a style of basketball that can help us win in March. I don’t think anyone is thrilled with the recruits we are getting, but are willing to give the benefit of the doubt given the amount of time and the series of events that followed the coaching change. And I don’t know that people can’t handle the negativity- but jesus christ can we give the new coach a chance before we throw tomatoes?
I am no Mick hater but even I was getting complacent come March because “here we go again.” I was shocked we won the aac tourney but turns out same ole same ole as we lose in the first round. So I am willing to take the lumps short term in hopes that the long game produces more tourney success. Afterall, we know what we had in Mick. And it was more or less the ceiling of a good regular season and then meh. I hope he does well at UCLA but I will be surprised. Maybe it will be all about the recruits and UCLA will help with that. Guess we will see.
(05-25-2019 08:27 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (05-25-2019 08:15 AM)Lush Wrote: [ -> ] (05-25-2019 06:52 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]As I've said before, I wasn't an ******* last year when half the board hated on low rated Mick recruits. Though I did defend the recruits as I liked the potential of all of them.
But I was told we could do much better and Mick is a terrible recruiter. But now the goalposts have moved so back for Brannen that we are supposed to be excited by low-major guys. Imagine any fans last year being excited by Mick recruiting Vogt, Sorolla or Iorio.
Davenport was a good recruit and Brannen is trying to get some others (Bolton included).
But don't expect me to be excited by guys who look like they belong on a low major team. I wouldn't have been excited for them if Cronin got them and I'm not going to be with Brannen either. Guys who were back-ups for low major teams or an unathletic, undersized big who can't defend the 3 and is going to be shot over at the 4 just aren't my thing. I'll root for them if they come here and hope they prove me wrong, but Vogt, Sorolla and Iorio look like the belong on a low major and UC should be able to do better than that.
maybe when brannen's done picking thru the leftovers of the nineteen class people will stop beating this dead horse
Vogt and Iorio are basically 2020 class since they have to sit a year.
i get that. it's not just those two however, it's been your narrative for every guy brannen's been after. we'll see how it all unfolds
(05-25-2019 04:10 PM)Lush Wrote: [ -> ] (05-25-2019 08:27 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (05-25-2019 08:15 AM)Lush Wrote: [ -> ] (05-25-2019 06:52 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]As I've said before, I wasn't an ******* last year when half the board hated on low rated Mick recruits. Though I did defend the recruits as I liked the potential of all of them.
But I was told we could do much better and Mick is a terrible recruiter. But now the goalposts have moved so back for Brannen that we are supposed to be excited by low-major guys. Imagine any fans last year being excited by Mick recruiting Vogt, Sorolla or Iorio.
Davenport was a good recruit and Brannen is trying to get some others (Bolton included).
But don't expect me to be excited by guys who look like they belong on a low major team. I wouldn't have been excited for them if Cronin got them and I'm not going to be with Brannen either. Guys who were back-ups for low major teams or an unathletic, undersized big who can't defend the 3 and is going to be shot over at the 4 just aren't my thing. I'll root for them if they come here and hope they prove me wrong, but Vogt, Sorolla and Iorio look like the belong on a low major and UC should be able to do better than that.
maybe when brannen's done picking thru the leftovers of the nineteen class people will stop beating this dead horse
Vogt and Iorio are basically 2020 class since they have to sit a year.
i get that. it's not just those two however, it's been your narrative for every guy brannen's been after. we'll see how it all unfolds
No it hasn't. You guys are just so anti-negativity that anything negative about any recruit gets jumped on. I like Davenport, I liked Tajuatae Williams, I liked Bolton (reports are coming out that we are going to pass on him because he has off-court issues), I like Coleman and the list could go on. There are really only three recruits I haven't liked up to this point (Vogt, Sorolla and Iorio) and I'm okay with Vogt because of his history with Brannen - just don't think Vogt will ever be a starter here, but based on Brannen's recruiting of other centers I don't think he sees Vogt as a starter either.
(05-25-2019 12:35 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote: [ -> ]I think “they” are full of optimism because we have a new coach who prepares a team to play a style of basketball that doesn't require peach baskets. I don’t think anyone is thrilled with the recruits we are getting, but are willing to give the benefit of the doubt given the amount of time and the series of events that followed the coaching change. And I don’t know that people can’t handle the negativity- but jesus christ can we give the new coach a chance before we throw tomatoes?
I am no Mick hater but even I was getting complacent come March because “here we go again.” I was shocked we won the aac tourney but turns out same ole same ole as we lose in the first round. So I am willing to take the lumps short term in hopes that the long game produces more tourney success. Afterall, we know what we had in Mick. And it was more or less the ceiling of a good regular season and then meh. I hope he does well at UCLA but I will be surprised. Maybe it will be all about the recruits and UCLA will help with that. Guess we will see.
FIFY
Hepblade:
It it not logical to hold Brannen to the same standard as Mick in recruiting right now because the guy just took over the team VERY VERY late in the recruiting cycle. Other than a Pitino type, NOBODY was going to come in here when Brannen did and start bringing in ringers. If you want to gripe out Brannen's recruiting, to be fair and logical, you have to at least wait until next year to do so. Doing it now makes you look petty, and like you are still a jilted lover because Micky boy left us.
(05-25-2019 06:33 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote: [ -> ]Hepblade:
It it not logical to hold Brannen to the same standard as Mick in recruiting right now because the guy just took over the team VERY VERY late in the recruiting cycle. Other than a Pitino type, NOBODY was going to come in here when Brannen did and start bringing in ringers. If you want to gripe out Brannen's recruiting, to be fair and logical, you have to at least wait until next year to do so. Doing it now makes you look petty, and like you are still a jilted lover because Micky boy left us.
Even next year he should get a slight pass to a degree. These kids are recruited out so far in advance, he will have an uphill battle to land any top 100 talent. That being said I wouldn't completely rule it out.
I also think he should be able to atleast pull a Mick and get 1 player ranked around 150 and 2 "projects".
So has anyone actually seen Jarron's cousin play at Oakland? I have not so I'm wondering if their style of play is similar. If both were on the floor together, it would seem Williams would complement that style, being able to use his quickness and hops to get to the rim off the pass.