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Can we discuss the fact that Loyola Chicago is paying its coach twice as much as we are paying ours? We really need to step our commitment up next time we hire a basketball coach. Its embarrassing, frankly.
(04-16-2019 02:37 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Can we discuss the fact that Loyola Chicago is paying its coach twice as much as we are paying ours? We really need to step our commitment up next time we hire a basketball coach. Its embarrassing, frankly.

FWIW, he was making $420k before taking them to the final four.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html
(04-16-2019 02:55 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 02:37 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Can we discuss the fact that Loyola Chicago is paying its coach twice as much as we are paying ours? We really need to step our commitment up next time we hire a basketball coach. Its embarrassing, frankly.

FWIW, he was making $420k before taking them to the final four.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

Regardless, we need to step up our commitment. If St. John's is a $2M job, It is absolutely embarrassing that we can only cover 25% of that. This isn't Coach K or Coach Cal we are talking about.
(04-16-2019 03:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 02:55 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 02:37 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Can we discuss the fact that Loyola Chicago is paying its coach twice as much as we are paying ours? We really need to step our commitment up next time we hire a basketball coach. Its embarrassing, frankly.

FWIW, he was making $420k before taking them to the final four.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

Regardless, we need to step up our commitment. If St. John's is a $2M job, It is absolutely embarrassing that we can only cover 25% of that. This isn't Coach K or Coach Cal we are talking about.

Sorry, we need to up our salaries in football more. And that job will be open or (extended) a lot sooner than hoops will be.
(04-16-2019 03:15 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 02:55 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 02:37 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Can we discuss the fact that Loyola Chicago is paying its coach twice as much as we are paying ours? We really need to step our commitment up next time we hire a basketball coach. Its embarrassing, frankly.

FWIW, he was making $420k before taking them to the final four.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

Regardless, we need to step up our commitment. If St. John's is a $2M job, It is absolutely embarrassing that we can only cover 25% of that. This isn't Coach K or Coach Cal we are talking about.

Sorry, we need to up our salaries in football more. And that job will be open or (extended) a lot sooner than hoops will be.

Potential ROI on a high paid basketball coach far exceeds that of a bump in football salaries.
We were paying double for basketball 10 years ago. Much more adjusted for inflation. The football program is new and Wilder should be near the bottom.... unless you advocate firing him. JJ should be making a lot more than Wilder and I'm not even even on the JJ Kool Aid.
(04-16-2019 03:31 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:15 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 02:55 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 02:37 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Can we discuss the fact that Loyola Chicago is paying its coach twice as much as we are paying ours? We really need to step our commitment up next time we hire a basketball coach. Its embarrassing, frankly.

FWIW, he was making $420k before taking them to the final four.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

Regardless, we need to step up our commitment. If St. John's is a $2M job, It is absolutely embarrassing that we can only cover 25% of that. This isn't Coach K or Coach Cal we are talking about.

Sorry, we need to up our salaries in football more. And that job will be open or (extended) a lot sooner than hoops will be.

Potential ROI on a high paid basketball coach far exceeds that of a bump in football salaries.

In your example, what's a highly paid basketball coach?
(04-16-2019 03:37 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:31 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:15 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 02:55 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, he was making $420k before taking them to the final four.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

Regardless, we need to step up our commitment. If St. John's is a $2M job, It is absolutely embarrassing that we can only cover 25% of that. This isn't Coach K or Coach Cal we are talking about.

Sorry, we need to up our salaries in football more. And that job will be open or (extended) a lot sooner than hoops will be.

Potential ROI on a high paid basketball coach far exceeds that of a bump in football salaries.

In your example, what's a highly paid basketball coach?

Depends on where you want to be. Make a good hire in the $1.5M range and your potential ROI will be in the NCAA as a single digit seed most years. Make a good hire at that range in football (ignoring the scores of assistants) and your potential ROI is playing in the Bahamas Bowl on a Wednesday in mid-December most years. ROI for football is terrible.
(04-16-2019 03:37 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:31 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:15 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 02:55 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, he was making $420k before taking them to the final four.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

Regardless, we need to step up our commitment. If St. John's is a $2M job, It is absolutely embarrassing that we can only cover 25% of that. This isn't Coach K or Coach Cal we are talking about.

Sorry, we need to up our salaries in football more. And that job will be open or (extended) a lot sooner than hoops will be.

Potential ROI on a high paid basketball coach far exceeds that of a bump in football salaries.

In your example, what's a highly paid basketball coach?

In the $1M range
(04-16-2019 03:43 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:37 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:31 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:15 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]Regardless, we need to step up our commitment. If St. John's is a $2M job, It is absolutely embarrassing that we can only cover 25% of that. This isn't Coach K or Coach Cal we are talking about.

Sorry, we need to up our salaries in football more. And that job will be open or (extended) a lot sooner than hoops will be.

Potential ROI on a high paid basketball coach far exceeds that of a bump in football salaries.

In your example, what's a highly paid basketball coach?

Depends on where you want to be. Make a good hire in the $1.5M range and your potential ROI will be in the NCAA as a single digit seed most years. Make a good hire at that range in football (ignoring the scores of assistants) and your potential ROI is playing in the Bahamas Bowl on a Wednesday in mid-December most years. ROI for football is terrible.

This is exactly the way I see it.
(04-16-2019 03:43 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:37 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:31 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:15 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-16-2019 03:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]Regardless, we need to step up our commitment. If St. John's is a $2M job, It is absolutely embarrassing that we can only cover 25% of that. This isn't Coach K or Coach Cal we are talking about.

Sorry, we need to up our salaries in football more. And that job will be open or (extended) a lot sooner than hoops will be.

Potential ROI on a high paid basketball coach far exceeds that of a bump in football salaries.

In your example, what's a highly paid basketball coach?

Depends on where you want to be. Make a good hire in the $1.5M range and your potential ROI will be in the NCAA as a single digit seed most years. Make a good hire at that range in football (ignoring the scores of assistants) and your potential ROI is playing in the Bahamas Bowl on a Wednesday in mid-December most years. ROI for football is terrible.

If you can identify a coach worth paying that much, that would come here. I'm all for it. But most mid-major coaches in one bid leagues getting paid around $1M, proved their worth at that school.

As for the value in paying a football coach competitively, there is more to it than a low level bowl. FAU set records with applications the first year of Kiffin. That has a direct impact on the quality of students we can attract. We can also get to the point where we have a full stadium again, creating a new waiting list, increasing donations, and getting us to phase 2 faster; making us a better candidate for the AAC.
I think the path to "Gonzaga of the East" or "New Memphis of CUSA" is a cheaper and easier one than the path to the AAC. I just don't see it happening. It is also easier to fill an 8,500 seat arena and generate a waiting list in mid-major basketball than it is a 21,000 seat stadium. The resources needed to take it to the next level in football are far to great of a hurdle right now. FAU will either lose Kiffin if the sustain any success or more likely will not sustain it. They had one good year and really nobody outside the CUSA bubble even noticed.
(04-16-2019 04:19 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]I think the path to "Gonzaga of the East" or "New Memphis of CUSA" is a cheaper and easier one than the path to the AAC. I just don't see it happening. It is also easier to fill an 8,500 seat arena and generate a waiting list in mid-major basketball than it is a 21,000 seat stadium. The resources needed to take it to the next level in football are far to great of a hurdle right now. FAU will either lose Kiffin if the sustain any success or more likely will not sustain it. They had one good year and really nobody outside the CUSA bubble even noticed.

You think it's easier to regularly sell out and build a waiting list at the Ted than it is at Ballard, when we've done the latter with 20k seats but have never come close at the Ted? That will need further explanation.

And while what you say about FAU is true, it's the same for all but two mid majors in hoops (Gonzaga and Wichita State).

As for being the next Gonzaga or Memphis being easier than getting invited to the AAC. We're probably one of 7 schools with any chance at getting an invite to the AAC during the next expansion round. Those chances are much better than becoming a mid-major that manages to be ranked the better part of two decades.
Before we start talking about salary increases, lets look at a few points:

1. Wood has put ODU at the highest budget cost, in the C-USA. Over the last several years. Partly due to the time and many consultants for the final plans of the football stadium. All the new goodies are find, but an increase of 1k in attendance won't get ODU in the AAC.


2. In the last 6 years we have been to the NCAA only once and that was one and done. I will never see a final 4 for ODU. Money talks!


3. In JJ's staff, I have yet to see but only maybe 1 or 2 freshman that they have recruited that are good (Caver and Greene). At this point, JJ is at best a transfer coach and a lot of them would sit on the bench at most mid level schools.


4. We rave about JJ's 20 win seasons and raises, but if you look at last
season, 15 of the games were against teams with season ending losing records and if the new c-usa schedule rule, was not in for last year it would be 18 losing teams. The OOC schedule is very poor as was most in C-USA in basketball talent and that is two reasons we won so many. Players that transferred in like Freeman, Stith's Porter and others are the other reason we won so many.


5. ODU basketball has the best attendance in the C-USA, yet watching away games on T.V. seems like only about 2k are at most of those games. Schedule other teams like Liberty, Radford, Wolford, College of Chareston, Dayton and others, plus a couple of low p5 schools. I am sure the coaches say nobody will play them but maybe ODU don't want to play any of these good mid major schools. As far as recruiting I know the coaches work hard but their is no personality that seems to recruit and convince a 3 or 4 star player to come here. Until we are better in recruiting, we are going nowhere. Maybe that is why the schedule is soo soft. I see too many players we recruit go to a smaller school. I hope this spring we could steal some players that are really top quality. Time will tell.


6. Wood is sold on defense, but our offense is out of sink (with several dry spells) especially in the first half. Mr. Selig should give fans their monies worth and get better teams at the TED.
Salaries are based in large part on demand. You don't make money by giving out raises when you don't have to. Shaka got raises nearly every year at VCU because there was always someone, or multiple someones, trying to hire him away. ODU got JJ as a lower salary, and haven't been pushed by outside forces to spend more on him than is necessary. If he goes to two more NCAAs and other schools start trying to poach him, then you do what you can to keep him. I mean, we can just immediately give JJ $1 million a year but my guess is some people here would be pretty pissed about that.

(04-16-2019 03:43 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]Make a good hire in the $1.5M range and your potential ROI will be in the NCAA as a single digit seed most years. Make a good hire at that range in football (ignoring the scores of assistants) and your potential ROI is playing in the Bahamas Bowl on a Wednesday in mid-December most years. ROI for football is terrible.

First, ODU got to the Bahamas Bowl paying their coach a hell of a lot less than that.

Second, you're assuming that coach salary has a direct and immutable connection to on-court success. Buffalo paid Nate Oats $612,000 this past season. Seems like he did OK enough. Utah's Larry Krystkowiak has made two NCAA tournaments in seven seasons — not great ROI for the 11th-highest salary in college basketball.
I think y'all are pretty unrealistic. First, where's the money coming from for this large bump in salaries? Second, how do you predict which coach is going to magically produce perennial NCAA appearances? If was as easy as throwing money at someone there would be far more Gonzagas. Look at VCU as a case study. They've had multiple coaches leave for salaries in excess of what you're proposing and they aren't making NCAA appearances regularly with far better resources and schedule strength than ODU could provide.

I'm not saying it's not possible to make that excellent hire, I'm just saying it's a lot harder than you are making it seem.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
(04-16-2019 05:06 PM)bluelight Wrote: [ -> ]Before we start talking about salary increases, lets look at a few points:

1. Wood has put ODU at the highest budget cost, in the C-USA. Over the last several years. Partly due to the time and many consultants for the final plans of the football stadium. All the new goodies are find, but an increase of 1k in attendance won't get ODU in the AAC.


2. In the last 6 years we have been to the NCAA only once and that was one and done. I will never see a final 4 for ODU. Money talks!


3. In JJ's staff, I have yet to see but only maybe 1 or 2 freshman that they have recruited that are good (Caver and Greene). At this point, JJ is at best a transfer coach and a lot of them would sit on the bench at most mid level schools.


4. We rave about JJ's 20 win seasons and raises, but if you look at last
season, 15 of the games were against teams with season ending losing records and if the new c-usa schedule rule, was not in for last year it would be 18 losing teams. The OOC schedule is very poor as was most in C-USA in basketball talent and that is two reasons we won so many. Players that transferred in like Freeman, Stith's Porter and others are the other reason we won so many.


5. ODU basketball has the best attendance in the C-USA, yet watching away games on T.V. seems like only about 2k are at most of those games. Schedule other teams like Liberty, Radford, Wolford, College of Chareston, Dayton and others, plus a couple of low p5 schools. I am sure the coaches say nobody will play them but maybe ODU don't want to play any of these good mid major schools. As far as recruiting I know the coaches work hard but their is no personality that seems to recruit and convince a 3 or 4 star player to come here. Until we are better in recruiting, we are going nowhere. Maybe that is why the schedule is soo soft. I see too many players we recruit go to a smaller school. I hope this spring we could steal some players that are really top quality. Time will tell.


6. Wood is sold on defense, but our offense is out of sink (with several dry spells) especially in the first half. Mr. Selig should give fans their monies worth and get better teams at the TED.

Godwin, Ezikpe, Wade, Caver
Maybe it will take more money when we hire a coach next time. But, we have one of the best mid major coaches at 500k right now. Thats a good deal
I’d rather add money in bonuses. Instead of paying $1 million, pay $600k and $200k for every NCAA tournament game
Quote:You think it's easier to regularly sell out and build a waiting list at the Ted than it is at Ballard, when we've done the latter with 20k seats but have never come close at the Ted? That will need further explanation.


Yes, Ballard sold out and had a waiting list when we were playing local teams and the newness of football was still a novelty. Those days are past.

Quote:And while what you say about FAU is true, it's the same for all but two mid majors in hoops (Gonzaga and Wichita State).

Butler, Xavier, Memphis, St. Mary's and the turds up 64 West all have stepped it up and advanced their brand using basketball. Boise State and TCU are the only schools that have done it with football and that was a different era. Maybe UCF is on that path, but it isn't happening from CUSA.

Quote:As for being the next Gonzaga or Memphis being easier than getting invited to the AAC. We're probably one of 7 schools with any chance at getting an invite to the AAC during the next expansion round. Those chances are much better than becoming a mid-major that manages to be ranked the better part of two decades.

Why would the AAC expand at all next go around? Need to give up on the pipe dream. Even if they did expand and we did get in, it would be due to basketball, not football. Even the rosiest glasses cheerleaders like Harry M. have given up. Football is what it is and isn't going to get much better.
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