CSNbbs

So now if the dems dont agree does he start shipping "Dreamers" out of the country?

(01-19-2019 04:33 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote: [ -> ]So now if the dems dont agree does he start shipping "Dreamers" out of the country?

They rejected it. I think it is a fair deal.

(01-19-2019 04:33 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote: [ -> ]So now if the dems dont agree does he start shipping "Dreamers" out of the country?

He should.

Except that there's a court ruling preventing him from doing so.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...en-lawsuit

-----

Here's how this ends.

1) Trump caves on DACA and TPS, by offering a permanent Dream Act with a clear and attainable path to citizenship for them, with all rights to stay and with family reunification included. In return, the Dems allow 5 billion in additional funding for a wall.

2) The US Senate allows a vote on reopening the government, and it passes. Trump decides to sign it

----

That's it. Trump created the problem with DACA and TPS. He doesn't get to hold kids hostage for his agenda. If he wants to get out of the jam that he put himself into, he's going to have to concede something incremental over Obama.

BTW, did Trump mention the workers that are going without pay because of this?

Basically, this speech was a way of Trump and Stephen Miller of trying to muddle the issue of reopening the government by tying DACA and TPS and a wall to it. There's no need to keep the Coast Guard unpaid because there's some negotiation going on DACA and TPS. His target audience wasn't the Democrats, but rather his own supporters. Trump's speech was a big nothing, and represented a doubling down.

We're going to a full on crisis.

(01-19-2019 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's a court ruling preventing him from doing so.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...en-lawsuit

-----

Here's how this ends.

1) Trump caves on DACA and TPS, by offering a permanent Dream Act with a clear and attainable path to citizenship for them, with all rights to stay and with family reunification included. In return, the Dems allow 5 billion in additional funding for a wall.

2) The US Senate allows a vote on reopening the government, and it passes. Trump decides to sign it

----

That's it. Trump created the problem with DACA and TPS. He doesn't get to hold kids hostage for his agenda. If he wants to get out of the jam that he put himself into, he's going to have to concede something incremental over Obama.

BTW, did Trump mention the workers that are going without pay because of this?

dems need to counter or they will lose the pr battle.

(01-19-2019 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's a court ruling preventing him from doing so.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...en-lawsuit

-----

Here's how this ends.

1) Trump caves on DACA and TPS, by offering a permanent Dream Act with a clear and attainable path to citizenship for them, with all rights to stay and with family reunification included. In return, the Dems allow 5 billion in additional funding for a wall.

2) The US Senate allows a vote on reopening the government, and it passes. Trump decides to sign it

----

That's it. Trump created the problem with DACA and TPS. He doesn't get to hold kids hostage for his agenda. If he wants to get out of the jam that he put himself into, he's going to have to concede something incremental over Obama.

BTW, did Trump mention the workers that are going without pay because of this?

Basically, this speech was a way of Trump and Stephen Miller of trying to muddle the issue of reopening the government by tying DACA and TPS and a wall to it. There's no need to keep the Coast Guard unpaid because there's some negotiation going on DACA and TPS. His target audience wasn't the Democrats, but rather his own supporters. Trump's speech was a big nothing, and represented a doubling down.

We're going to a full on crisis.

So the "Dreamers" have until Spring to get their affairs in order?

(01-19-2019 03:40 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Trump is offering some concessions on Dreamers and DACA in exchange for $5.7 billion for the wall. My guess is it still won't fly with the Democrats since they won't permanent citizenship for the Dreamers. At least he's offering something so I'll give him credit for trying (assuming that indeed is his speech). I take it back if it ends up being a national emergency (doubtful though).

Trump created the DACA and TPS crisis for future leverage and out of spite. Pelosi isn't going to let him profit in the government shutdown crisis he created by using leverage in the DACA and TPS crisis he created.

He actually has to give up something INCREMENTAL. Or he can just open of the government and forget about his wall. If Pelosi took this deal, Trump would just take more hostages using god only knows what new outrage, so he can offer to take some of it back in future negotiations.

(01-19-2019 04:22 PM)stinkfist Wrote: [ -> ]where's PaulM.....

I rep him now....

I just saw something I didn't want to see.....

#byebyeboard

#UNCLE

Just curious, what was in Trump’s proposal that you are totally against?

(01-19-2019 05:19 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's a court ruling preventing him from doing so.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...en-lawsuit

-----

Here's how this ends.

1) Trump caves on DACA and TPS, by offering a permanent Dream Act with a clear and attainable path to citizenship for them, with all rights to stay and with family reunification included. In return, the Dems allow 5 billion in additional funding for a wall.

2) The US Senate allows a vote on reopening the government, and it passes. Trump decides to sign it

----

That's it. Trump created the problem with DACA and TPS. He doesn't get to hold kids hostage for his agenda. If he wants to get out of the jam that he put himself into, he's going to have to concede something incremental over Obama.

BTW, did Trump mention the workers that are going without pay because of this?

Basically, this speech was a way of Trump and Stephen Miller of trying to muddle the issue of reopening the government by tying DACA and TPS and a wall to it. There's no need to keep the Coast Guard unpaid because there's some negotiation going on DACA and TPS. His target audience wasn't the Democrats, but rather his own supporters. Trump's speech was a big nothing, and represented a doubling down.

We're going to a full on crisis.

So the "Dreamers" have until Spring to get their affairs in order?

You are free to try to do it. But the Supreme Court has not scheduled a ruling to overturn the Court of Appeals stay. Now, there might be an issue with renewals, but those are small in number, and all hell is going to break loose if Trump's Racist ICE starts hauling kids out of middle and high schools and colleges.

You guys lose if you try that. Badly. All hell will break loose. Remember the bad press over Trump's War on Brown Kids/Baby Jails? Remember those largely don't have large networks of friends in the United States. The DREAMERS and TPS kids are going to have lots of close relations and ties in the USA and they're going to raise hell. And I can promise you, it won't be raising hell with Pelosi.

(01-19-2019 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's a court ruling preventing him from doing so.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...en-lawsuit

-----

Here's how this ends.

1) Trump caves on DACA and TPS, by offering a permanent Dream Act with a clear and attainable path to citizenship for them, with all rights to stay and with family reunification included. In return, the Dems allow 5 billion in additional funding for a wall.

2) The US Senate allows a vote on reopening the government, and it passes. Trump decides to sign it

----

That's it. Trump created the problem with DACA and TPS. He doesn't get to hold kids hostage for his agenda. If he wants to get out of the jam that he put himself into, he's going to have to concede something incremental over Obama.

BTW, did Trump mention the workers that are going without pay because of this?

Basically, this speech was a way of Trump and Stephen Miller of trying to muddle the issue of reopening the government by tying DACA and TPS and a wall to it. There's no need to keep the Coast Guard unpaid because there's some negotiation going on DACA and TPS. His target audience wasn't the Democrats, but rather his own supporters. Trump's speech was a big nothing, and represented a doubling down.

We're going to a full on crisis.

I’d consider item 1 for full funding of the wall project. Anything less than that and the Dems can go pound sand.

Before I would agree to any citizenship stuff - there has to be a path to shutting the border to a trickle of those getting in that don’t do it legally.

(01-19-2019 05:15 PM)No Bull Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's a court ruling preventing him from doing so.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...en-lawsuit

-----

Here's how this ends.

1) Trump caves on DACA and TPS, by offering a permanent Dream Act with a clear and attainable path to citizenship for them, with all rights to stay and with family reunification included. In return, the Dems allow 5 billion in additional funding for a wall.

2) The US Senate allows a vote on reopening the government, and it passes. Trump decides to sign it

----

That's it. Trump created the problem with DACA and TPS. He doesn't get to hold kids hostage for his agenda. If he wants to get out of the jam that he put himself into, he's going to have to concede something incremental over Obama.

BTW, did Trump mention the workers that are going without pay because of this?

dems need to counter or they will lose the pr battle.

No they don't.

Ok, here's the counter

Just allow the Senate to vote on the budget they passed in December. There's no reason to have a wall or immigration reform in the budget bill. If he can convince the elected representatives of the people to fund his wall, then the House and Senate can vote on that separately in an additional funding bill.

Then they can negotiate on Dreamers and TPSers.

OR

Make a real incremental offer on DACA and TPS. Citizenship path, permanent legal status. No add ons restricting immigration from current levels or making other changes to our immigration laws. In return, Pelosi might agree to throw 5 billion in funding for Trump's wall.

---

The problem Trump and the GOP have is that there's no reason to tie Wall funding or immigration to reopening the government.

(01-19-2019 05:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 03:40 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Trump is offering some concessions on Dreamers and DACA in exchange for $5.7 billion for the wall. My guess is it still won't fly with the Democrats since they won't permanent citizenship for the Dreamers. At least he's offering something so I'll give him credit for trying (assuming that indeed is his speech). I take it back if it ends up being a national emergency (doubtful though).

Trump created the DACA and TPS crisis for future leverage and out of spite. Pelosi isn't going to let him profit in the government shutdown crisis he created by using leverage in the DACA and TPS crisis he created.
He actually has to give up something INCREMENTAL.

So do democrats. What do you think democrats should give up? And what should they get in return?

Quote:Or he can just open of the government and forget about his wall. If Pelosi took this deal, Trump would just take more hostages using god only knows what new outrage, so he can offer to take some of it back in future negotiations.

Quite frankly, government has been shut down 29 days, and it's a huge struggle for me to think of any impact that has had on my life. I dare say the vast majority of Americans are in the same boat. Perhaps we need to rethink exactly what government is doing versus what it should be doing. As someone said, if a job is not "essential," why do we ever pay anyone to do it?

My solution for future government "shutdowns": There is money coming in, so they have funds to pay for some things. Insert into the next and future budgets a provision that in the event of "shutdown," everybody making less than, say, $100,000/year stays on the job and gets paid, Everybody over $100,000/year is not paid. Those deemed "essential" continue to work and accrue pay to be paid upon restoration.

(01-19-2019 05:26 PM)Crebman Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 04:22 PM)stinkfist Wrote: [ -> ]where's PaulM.....

I rep him now....

I just saw something I didn't want to see.....

#byebyeboard

#UNCLE

Just curious, what was in Trump’s proposal that you are totally against?

for starters, bending over with an overt olive branch.....

there is nothing the left has to offer.....

man...............I'm as staunch as it gets when it comes to thingys that actually matter....

he was the last bastion that had a chance to matter......and he pussed out today....

fk that....

I'll go back to planning as before #DJTexperiment.....

he only had one chance with me.....i'm pretty certain I'm hardly alone....

#hablaespanol

fk that bs.....

I just won't vote nor give a fk anymore (again).....

(01-19-2019 05:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 05:19 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's a court ruling preventing him from doing so.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...en-lawsuit

-----

Here's how this ends.

1) Trump caves on DACA and TPS, by offering a permanent Dream Act with a clear and attainable path to citizenship for them, with all rights to stay and with family reunification included. In return, the Dems allow 5 billion in additional funding for a wall.

2) The US Senate allows a vote on reopening the government, and it passes. Trump decides to sign it

----

That's it. Trump created the problem with DACA and TPS. He doesn't get to hold kids hostage for his agenda. If he wants to get out of the jam that he put himself into, he's going to have to concede something incremental over Obama.

BTW, did Trump mention the workers that are going without pay because of this?

Basically, this speech was a way of Trump and Stephen Miller of trying to muddle the issue of reopening the government by tying DACA and TPS and a wall to it. There's no need to keep the Coast Guard unpaid because there's some negotiation going on DACA and TPS. His target audience wasn't the Democrats, but rather his own supporters. Trump's speech was a big nothing, and represented a doubling down.

We're going to a full on crisis.

So the "Dreamers" have until Spring to get their affairs in order?

You are free to try to do it. But the Supreme Court has not scheduled a ruling to overturn the Court of Appeals stay. Now, there might be an issue with renewals, but those are small in number, and all hell is going to break loose if Trump's Racist ICE starts hauling kids out of middle and high schools and colleges.

You guys lose if you try that. Badly. All hell will break loose. Remember the bad press over Trump's War on Brown Kids/Baby Jails? Remember those largely don't have large networks of friends in the United States. The DREAMERS and TPS kids are going to have lots of close relations and ties in the USA and they're going to raise hell. And I can promise you, it won't be raising hell with Pelosi.

Everyone knows the press is biased and makes things up about Trump. He isnt a politician. Average age of the dreamers is 25 with fewer than .5% younger than 16. All they have to do is apply for citizenship, which they should have already done.

(01-19-2019 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's a court ruling preventing him from doing so.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...en-lawsuit

-----

Here's how this ends.

1) Trump caves on DACA and TPS, by offering a permanent Dream Act with a clear and attainable path to citizenship for them, with all rights to stay and with family reunification included. In return, the Dems allow 5 billion in additional funding for a wall.

2) The US Senate allows a vote on reopening the government, and it passes. Trump decides to sign it

----

That's it. Trump created the problem with DACA and TPS. He doesn't get to hold kids hostage for his agenda. If he wants to get out of the jam that he put himself into, he's going to have to concede something incremental over Obama.

BTW, did Trump mention the workers that are going without pay because of this?

Basically, this speech was a way of Trump and Stephen Miller of trying to muddle the issue of reopening the government by tying DACA and TPS and a wall to it. There's no need to keep the Coast Guard unpaid because there's some negotiation going on DACA and TPS. His target audience wasn't the Democrats, but rather his own supporters. Trump's speech was a big nothing, and represented a doubling down.

We're going to a full on crisis.

No matter how many times you repeat a lie its still not true. And you just make yourself look stupid. So all these dreamers just appeared in January 2017???? Where was Obama on this issue the last 8 years? If you can blame any president, you blame Obama as the issue has only been publicized since Obama became president.

The speech was to the American people to show how untenable the Democrats position was.

And do you expect the President to give his best offer first when the Democrats haven't offered anything?

(01-19-2019 05:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 05:19 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's a court ruling preventing him from doing so.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...en-lawsuit

-----

Here's how this ends.

1) Trump caves on DACA and TPS, by offering a permanent Dream Act with a clear and attainable path to citizenship for them, with all rights to stay and with family reunification included. In return, the Dems allow 5 billion in additional funding for a wall.

2) The US Senate allows a vote on reopening the government, and it passes. Trump decides to sign it

----

That's it. Trump created the problem with DACA and TPS. He doesn't get to hold kids hostage for his agenda. If he wants to get out of the jam that he put himself into, he's going to have to concede something incremental over Obama.

BTW, did Trump mention the workers that are going without pay because of this?

Basically, this speech was a way of Trump and Stephen Miller of trying to muddle the issue of reopening the government by tying DACA and TPS and a wall to it. There's no need to keep the Coast Guard unpaid because there's some negotiation going on DACA and TPS. His target audience wasn't the Democrats, but rather his own supporters. Trump's speech was a big nothing, and represented a doubling down.

We're going to a full on crisis.

So the "Dreamers" have until Spring to get their affairs in order?

You are free to try to do it. But the Supreme Court has not scheduled a ruling to overturn the Court of Appeals stay. Now, there might be an issue with renewals, but those are small in number, and all hell is going to break loose if Trump's Racist ICE starts hauling kids out of middle and high schools and colleges.

You guys lose if you try that. Badly. All hell will break loose. Remember the bad press over Trump's War on Brown Kids/Baby Jails? Remember those largely don't have large networks of friends in the United States. The DREAMERS and TPS kids are going to have lots of close relations and ties in the USA and they're going to raise hell. And I can promise you, it won't be raising hell with Pelosi.

You lose in California. Not so much everywhere else.

To democrat naysayers that are demanding government open first before border security negotiations can begin, Trump has signed several CR's keeping government open and negotiations NEVER happened, why should he believe democrats this time? Keep it closed, if democrats refuse to negotiate now, it's 100% their shutdown.

(01-19-2019 05:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 03:40 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Trump is offering some concessions on Dreamers and DACA in exchange for $5.7 billion for the wall. My guess is it still won't fly with the Democrats since they won't permanent citizenship for the Dreamers. At least he's offering something so I'll give him credit for trying (assuming that indeed is his speech). I take it back if it ends up being a national emergency (doubtful though).

Trump created the DACA and TPS crisis for future leverage and out of spite. Pelosi isn't going to let him profit in the government shutdown crisis he created by using leverage in the DACA and TPS crisis he created.

He actually has to give up something INCREMENTAL. Or he can just open of the government and forget about his wall. If Pelosi took this deal, Trump would just take more hostages using god only knows what new outrage, so he can offer to take some of it back in future negotiations.

Well Pelosi is holding the whole population's safety hostage for an attempt to mollify the extremists in her own party. She's opposing something most Democrats have voted for before. There's really absolutely zero justification for the Democrats' stance. Its simply TDS and partisan efforts at the expense of the American people.

(01-19-2019 05:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 05:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 03:40 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Trump is offering some concessions on Dreamers and DACA in exchange for $5.7 billion for the wall. My guess is it still won't fly with the Democrats since they won't permanent citizenship for the Dreamers. At least he's offering something so I'll give him credit for trying (assuming that indeed is his speech). I take it back if it ends up being a national emergency (doubtful though).

Trump created the DACA and TPS crisis for future leverage and out of spite. Pelosi isn't going to let him profit in the government shutdown crisis he created by using leverage in the DACA and TPS crisis he created.
He actually has to give up something INCREMENTAL.

So do democrats. What do you think democrats should give up? And what should they get in return?

Quote:Or he can just open of the government and forget about his wall. If Pelosi took this deal, Trump would just take more hostages using god only knows what new outrage, so he can offer to take some of it back in future negotiations.

Quite frankly, government has been shut down 29 days, and it's a huge struggle for me to think of any impact that has had on my life. I dare say the vast majority of Americans are in the same boat. Perhaps we need to rethink exactly what government is doing versus what it should be doing. As someone said, if a job is not "essential," why do we ever pay anyone to do it?

My solution for future government "shutdowns": There is money coming in, so they have funds to pay for some things. Insert into the next and future budgets a provision that in the event of "shutdown," everybody making less than, say, $100,000/year stays on the job and gets paid, Everybody over $100,000/year is not paid. Those deemed "essential" continue to work and accrue pay to be paid upon restoration.

Well I have a nephew who has been furloughed. My sister hasn't been furloughed yet, but expects it in the next month.

(01-19-2019 05:38 PM)stinkfist Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 05:26 PM)Crebman Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2019 04:22 PM)stinkfist Wrote: [ -> ]where's PaulM.....

I rep him now....

I just saw something I didn't want to see.....

#byebyeboard

#UNCLE

Just curious, what was in Trump’s proposal that you are totally against?

for starters, bending over with an overt olive branch.....

there is nothing the left has to offer.....

man...............I'm as staunch as it gets when it comes to thingys that actually matter....

he was the last bastion that had a chance to matter......and he pussed out today....

fk that....

I'll go back to planning as before #DJTexperiment.....

he only had one chance with me.....i'm pretty certain I'm hardly alone....

#hablaespanol

fk that bs.....

I just won't vote nor give a fk anymore (again).....

All he did was give the offer everyone knew would be the result. And he's still got room to make the Dreamers thing permanent.