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What if the ACC Network is successful, just not mega successful? I consider this a distinct possibility because it appears ESPN is making a good faith effort to get the network full distribution.

If the network ends up making decent money then a call for expansion by the ACC will follow sooner than later. What sort of options would they have?

Pardon my theories this morning, but I'm trying to aggregate some thoughts.

Started thinking last night after reading the breakdown on Dana Holgorsen moving to Houston. I couldn't avoid the question of what in the world is Houston doing? I mean, it's obvious they want to make themselves attractive to a Power 5 conference. By why in the world are they dropping this much money on coaches? They're giving Holgorsen $4 million a year. It was barely a decade ago that Nick Saban was being signed at Alabama for that much and if I remember correctly, that made him the highest paid coach in college football at the time.

Granted, times change and inflation marches on, but that's a heck of a lot of money for a G5 program and they're even giving him an inordinate amount of money for assistants. A lot of P5 programs don't spend what they're putting into staffing right now.

Desperation? A thoughtful strategy? Backroom agreements to be rewarded for proving themselves? Who knows...

But it does occur to me that there's really nowhere for the ACC to go except to the Heartland. West Virginia is a solid property, but most of their value is in a diaspora of former WV residents and most of them already live in ACC states. Not a bad content addition, but not a great one either. I'm sure they'd love to have Texas, but I don't think that's terribly likely given the distance.

What they might settle for is access to major TX markets via upstart programs. Schools like Houston and TCU could provide a lot of value to the ACC. It could also, ever so conveniently, take pressure off the Longhorns should they decide to separate from the Big 12 and not take everyone with them.

If ESPN plans to bundle the SEC and ACC Networks then they're probably going to want more overlap in the regions. There's already plenty, but only in certain states. For one, it makes cross conference match-ups more likely. Secondly, it creates more watchable content if both leagues grow. Third, it's insurance against the changing market.

What if something like this is worked out?

SEC adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, and West Virginia

ACC adds Kansas, TCU, Houston, with Notre Dame going all in.

I left the ACC with 2 fewer squads simply because they'll have smaller payments and no big time football programs to add to make up for it. With this sort of lineup though, their network will be must-see around basketball season in the Midwest. Access in TX will help recruiting as well as football ratings.

This will also create more opportunities for cross-conference content:

Mizzou/KU
A&M/Houston
Tech/TCU
Texas/ND
WVU/Pitt

I guess I can't help but think there's something up with all this money that Houston is starting to drop.
Would be smarter for ACC to add Texas as a partial and, if needed, add a couple of their friends to seal the deal.
We all need to keep in mind that individual colleges/universities don't always remain the same in pecking orders in matters of athletic funding, academics, enrollment, endowments, sponsorships, etc. Over time, there are significant ups and downs. Most flagships/prominent land-grants/well-funded private universities are currently secure and may be for the long-term, but a few will struggle in elite designs. Also, the "upwards mobility" factor needs to be incorporated in a reasonable and pragmatic way. Schools such as UCF, SDSU, Boise State, UConn, etc. should not be shut-out of opportunities to be more elite if their resources and ambitions match.
Thus, allowing a conference (or part of it) such as the AAC, to reach a higher competitive goal, need not be structurally impossibile due to protectionism of the existing elite.
(01-06-2019 11:13 AM)murrdcu Wrote: [ -> ]Would be smarter for ACC to add Texas as a partial and, if needed, add a couple of their friends to seal the deal.

IF there's on-going talk of Texas as a partial a'la Notre Dame (a big "IF", but still), then grooming a couple of full-time Texas teams to go along with them would be crucial. Houston could easily be one of those teams, and TCU certainly fits the ACC mold... leaving the SEC free to take on OU and Oklahoma State (and possibly Kansas and Texas Tech as well). Later, the ACC goes back and grabs WVU and Iowa State, thus getting both conferences to 18 full while dissolving the Big XII in the process (only Baylor and Kansas State would be left behind).
(01-06-2019 07:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 11:13 AM)murrdcu Wrote: [ -> ]Would be smarter for ACC to add Texas as a partial and, if needed, add a couple of their friends to seal the deal.

IF there's on-going talk of Texas as a partial a'la Notre Dame (a big "IF", but still), then grooming a couple of full-time Texas teams to go along with them would be crucial. Houston could easily be one of those teams, and TCU certainly fits the ACC mold... leaving the SEC free to take on OU and Oklahoma State (and possibly Kansas and Texas Tech as well). Later, the ACC goes back and grabs WVU and Iowa State, thus getting both conferences to 18 full while dissolving the Big XII in the process (only Baylor and Kansas State would be left behind).

If the SEC and ACC are going to dissolve the Big 12 there is another way to get her done. Yes circa ESPN 2009-11. The SEC adds T.C.U., N.C. State, Virginia Tech, and Kansas. The ACC adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Iowa State. This way only Baylor and WVU are left out.

The point is you need a division for Texas to stick around. Offer that and they join in full. If Texas joins in full then eventually we will move to 4 champs and N.D. will join as well.

Forget about promoting a current G5 like Houston. FYI Texas didn't want Houston in the Big 12. They don't like playing Houston. You might, and I mean might, consider Tulane for New Orleans and another AAU program. They do have a history with Ga Tech.

Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Tulane

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

*Wake Forest as a partial in football and all in for other sports.

Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech


Now why do I say this? Because unless you are willing to do something like that there is no way that Texas ever sniffs the ACC.
I think if the two leagues divided the Big 12 then a lot of consideration would be given to how cross-conference match-ups would set up.

The reason is because ESPN loves their content and that's an easy way to maximize your inventory without really paying extra for it.

What if they did it this way?

SEC takes Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa State, West Virginia, and Tulane

ACC takes TCU, Texas Tech, Houston, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, and Notre Dame goes all in.

The reason I aligned it this way is because the ACC is traditionally a collection of secondary schools and privates with a few exceptions. If they're going to expand then this may be their best plan.

I did add the primary properties to the SEC, but they'll also make more money there. The additions here are basically every flagship school left from the Big 12. I threw Tulane in to even the numbers as well as to offer balance for a league expanding its borders so significantly.

Examples of cross-conference match-ups and rivalries.

Texas/Notre Dame
Texas A&M/TCU
Oklahoma/Oklahoma State
Kansas/Kansas State
West Virginia/Pitt
Tulane/Houston

Additionally, new regionally intriguing match-ups for the SEC based on these additions.

Texas/Texas A&M
Kansas/Missouri
Iowa State/Missouri
Oklahoma/Arkansas
LSU/Tulane
West Virginia/Kentucky

And more...
(01-06-2019 08:27 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 07:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 11:13 AM)murrdcu Wrote: [ -> ]Would be smarter for ACC to add Texas as a partial and, if needed, add a couple of their friends to seal the deal.

IF there's on-going talk of Texas as a partial a'la Notre Dame (a big "IF", but still), then grooming a couple of full-time Texas teams to go along with them would be crucial. Houston could easily be one of those teams, and TCU certainly fits the ACC mold... leaving the SEC free to take on OU and Oklahoma State (and possibly Kansas and Texas Tech as well). Later, the ACC goes back and grabs WVU and Iowa State, thus getting both conferences to 18 full while dissolving the Big XII in the process (only Baylor and Kansas State would be left behind).

If the SEC and ACC are going to dissolve the Big 12 there is another way to get her done. Yes circa ESPN 2009-11. The SEC adds T.C.U., N.C. State, Virginia Tech, and Kansas. The ACC adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Iowa State. This way only Baylor and WVU are left out.

The point is you need a division for Texas to stick around. Offer that and they join in full. If Texas joins in full then eventually we will move to 4 champs and N.D. will join as well.

Forget about promoting a current G5 like Houston. FYI Texas didn't want Houston in the Big 12. They don't like playing Houston. You might, and I mean might, consider Tulane for New Orleans and another AAU program. They do have a history with Ga Tech.

Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Tulane

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

*Wake Forest as a partial in football and all in for other sports.

Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech


Now why do I say this? Because unless you are willing to do something like that there is no way that Texas ever sniffs the ACC.

Probably good for the ACC, but it puts VT in the Northeastern corner of the SEC, which I'm not crazy about (currently in pretty much the middle of the ACC).
(01-07-2019 12:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 08:27 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 07:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 11:13 AM)murrdcu Wrote: [ -> ]Would be smarter for ACC to add Texas as a partial and, if needed, add a couple of their friends to seal the deal.

IF there's on-going talk of Texas as a partial a'la Notre Dame (a big "IF", but still), then grooming a couple of full-time Texas teams to go along with them would be crucial. Houston could easily be one of those teams, and TCU certainly fits the ACC mold... leaving the SEC free to take on OU and Oklahoma State (and possibly Kansas and Texas Tech as well). Later, the ACC goes back and grabs WVU and Iowa State, thus getting both conferences to 18 full while dissolving the Big XII in the process (only Baylor and Kansas State would be left behind).

If the SEC and ACC are going to dissolve the Big 12 there is another way to get her done. Yes circa ESPN 2009-11. The SEC adds T.C.U., N.C. State, Virginia Tech, and Kansas. The ACC adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Iowa State. This way only Baylor and WVU are left out.

The point is you need a division for Texas to stick around. Offer that and they join in full. If Texas joins in full then eventually we will move to 4 champs and N.D. will join as well.

Forget about promoting a current G5 like Houston. FYI Texas didn't want Houston in the Big 12. They don't like playing Houston. You might, and I mean might, consider Tulane for New Orleans and another AAU program. They do have a history with Ga Tech.

Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Tulane

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

*Wake Forest as a partial in football and all in for other sports.

Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech


Now why do I say this? Because unless you are willing to do something like that there is no way that Texas ever sniffs the ACC.

Probably good for the ACC, but it puts VT in the Northeastern corner of the SEC, which I'm not crazy about (currently in pretty much the middle of the ACC).

You can't move your state. You are in the Northeastern corner of the SEC geographically. But it does put you in a much better recruiting division. You have annual games with Georgia and Florida two of the top 3 SEC recruiting grounds. If you had an annual crossover with A&M it would put you in all three. You would have neighborly rivals that would be winnable for you with N.C. State and Kentucky.

Frankly, I think it would revitalize your football much more quickly than the slow death spiral you've been in since joining the ACC.
Time to time, there is some weird stuff on the Internet about the SEC and other conferences expansion. I hope UGA doesn't claim association with this from last April:

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/targ...-expansion

Arizona? New Mexico? Hawaii is, uh, "slightly" out of footprint? Cincinnati has questionable academics, while assumingly, Applachain State and Memphis don't? Some points were valid, but those are consistent with common knowledge such as the ACC's GoR.

I expect, just in case, the SEC is collaborating with schools such as Texas, OU, Kansas, maybe oSu and WVU. In 5 years, the B12 will have decisions to make. That really is not a long time away in terms of expansion/re-alignment strategies.

The ACC is locked-in for another 18 years or so. Unless there is some major wheeling-dealing involving ESPN to allow a buy-out of a school or two, there is no avenue to extract. The cost would be astronomical.

When/if the B12 opens to defections, the SEC and BIG may be interested in the same couple of schools or so. The SEC and BIG may need to work together, if they can agree, as to who gets pursued by whom.

I suppose the PAC12 and the ACC could offer "package" deals to certain B12 schools if either or both choose, of course assuming Texas is part of it. I don't expect matters to be this fluid, but I could be wrong when the time comes.
I think something unusual and unpredicted will happen in the next round of realignment. Whether it’s flip-flopping power and non-power schools, a school like Texas or Oklahoma going a bizarre route, a member of stable conference leaving, etc.
(01-07-2019 02:43 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]Time to time, there is some weird stuff on the Internet about the SEC and other conferences expansion. I hope UGA doesn't claim association with this from last April:

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/targ...-expansion

Arizona? New Mexico? Hawaii is, uh, "slightly" out of footprint? Cincinnati has questionable academics, while assumingly, Applachain State and Memphis don't? Some points were valid, but those are consistent with common knowledge such as the ACC's GoR.

I expect, just in case, the SEC is collaborating with schools such as Texas, OU, Kansas, maybe oSu and WVU. In 5 years, the B12 will have decisions to make. That really is not a long time away in terms of expansion/re-alignment strategies.

The ACC is locked-in for another 18 years or so. Unless there is some major wheeling-dealing involving ESPN to allow a buy-out of a school or two, there is no avenue to extract. The cost would be astronomical.

When/if the B12 opens to defections, the SEC and BIG may be interested in the same couple of schools or so. The SEC and BIG may need to work together, if they can agree, as to who gets pursued by whom.

I suppose the PAC12 and the ACC could offer "package" deals to certain B12 schools if either or both choose, of course assuming Texas is part of it. I don't expect matters to be this fluid, but I could be wrong when the time comes.

If we worked together the best pairings would be Texas/Colorado to the Big 10 and Oklahoma/Kansas to the SEC. Colorado's GOR is up in 2024.

If we don't work together it will get pretty chippy.

If ESPN is involved then something much more attractive to Texas as I suggested above could be worked. It almost was in 2010.
(01-07-2019 12:23 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-07-2019 12:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 08:27 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 07:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 11:13 AM)murrdcu Wrote: [ -> ]Would be smarter for ACC to add Texas as a partial and, if needed, add a couple of their friends to seal the deal.

IF there's on-going talk of Texas as a partial a'la Notre Dame (a big "IF", but still), then grooming a couple of full-time Texas teams to go along with them would be crucial. Houston could easily be one of those teams, and TCU certainly fits the ACC mold... leaving the SEC free to take on OU and Oklahoma State (and possibly Kansas and Texas Tech as well). Later, the ACC goes back and grabs WVU and Iowa State, thus getting both conferences to 18 full while dissolving the Big XII in the process (only Baylor and Kansas State would be left behind).

If the SEC and ACC are going to dissolve the Big 12 there is another way to get her done. Yes circa ESPN 2009-11. The SEC adds T.C.U., N.C. State, Virginia Tech, and Kansas. The ACC adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Iowa State. This way only Baylor and WVU are left out.

The point is you need a division for Texas to stick around. Offer that and they join in full. If Texas joins in full then eventually we will move to 4 champs and N.D. will join as well.

Forget about promoting a current G5 like Houston. FYI Texas didn't want Houston in the Big 12. They don't like playing Houston. You might, and I mean might, consider Tulane for New Orleans and another AAU program. They do have a history with Ga Tech.

Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Tulane

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

*Wake Forest as a partial in football and all in for other sports.

Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech


Now why do I say this? Because unless you are willing to do something like that there is no way that Texas ever sniffs the ACC.

Probably good for the ACC, but it puts VT in the Northeastern corner of the SEC, which I'm not crazy about (currently in pretty much the middle of the ACC).

You can't move your state. You are in the Northeastern corner of the SEC geographically. But it does put you in a much better recruiting division. You have annual games with Georgia and Florida two of the top 3 SEC recruiting grounds. If you had an annual crossover with A&M it would put you in all three. You would have neighborly rivals that would be winnable for you with N.C. State and Kentucky.

Frankly, I think it would revitalize your football much more quickly than the slow death spiral you've been in since joining the ACC.

The Hokies already have annual games in Florida (Miami), Georgia (GT), North Carolina (UNC, Duke), Northern Virginia (UVA) and Pennsylvania (Pitt). Plus, all of those games are winnable!

VT used to play S Carolina regularly when both were independent, but have never much played Tennessee, Georgia, Kentucky or Florida. Under the "traded to SEC" scenario, SC and NC State would be the only teams with any history.
(01-07-2019 12:04 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 08:27 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 07:56 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2019 11:13 AM)murrdcu Wrote: [ -> ]Would be smarter for ACC to add Texas as a partial and, if needed, add a couple of their friends to seal the deal.

IF there's on-going talk of Texas as a partial a'la Notre Dame (a big "IF", but still), then grooming a couple of full-time Texas teams to go along with them would be crucial. Houston could easily be one of those teams, and TCU certainly fits the ACC mold... leaving the SEC free to take on OU and Oklahoma State (and possibly Kansas and Texas Tech as well). Later, the ACC goes back and grabs WVU and Iowa State, thus getting both conferences to 18 full while dissolving the Big XII in the process (only Baylor and Kansas State would be left behind).

If the SEC and ACC are going to dissolve the Big 12 there is another way to get her done. Yes circa ESPN 2009-11. The SEC adds T.C.U., N.C. State, Virginia Tech, and Kansas. The ACC adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Iowa State. This way only Baylor and WVU are left out.

The point is you need a division for Texas to stick around. Offer that and they join in full. If Texas joins in full then eventually we will move to 4 champs and N.D. will join as well.

Forget about promoting a current G5 like Houston. FYI Texas didn't want Houston in the Big 12. They don't like playing Houston. You might, and I mean might, consider Tulane for New Orleans and another AAU program. They do have a history with Ga Tech.

Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Tulane

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

*Wake Forest as a partial in football and all in for other sports.

Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech


Now why do I say this? Because unless you are willing to do something like that there is no way that Texas ever sniffs the ACC.

Probably good for the ACC, but it puts VT in the Northeastern corner of the SEC, which I'm not crazy about (currently in pretty much the middle of the ACC).
Missouri owns the northwest corner of the SEC and it's all good.04-cheers
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