It truly is "Wheel of Fortune".
I have no respect for the guy who solves the puzzle as soon as he knows it even though there's a many more letters up that that you can rack up a ton of $$$ on.
Come on, what are the odds that you're going to land on bankrupt?
(01-01-2019 10:27 PM)levydl Wrote: [ -> ]Cancel scholarships and room and board? The vindictiveness of some of you guys is shameful.
Not sure I follow your logic. Students on academic or community service-based scholarships immediately lose their scholarships if they don't hold up their end of the deal with grades, service hours, etc... and most of those are only worth a small part of the overall tuition and cost of attendance.
A lot of scholarships come with stipulations, I don't see what's shameful about saying, "hey, if you choose to quit the team, you no longer get a free education, free housing, access to first class training facilities, and a cash stipend in your pocket." It is the same standard to which all other students are held.
(01-02-2019 08:39 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2019 10:27 PM)levydl Wrote: [ -> ]Cancel scholarships and room and board? The vindictiveness of some of you guys is shameful.
Not sure I follow your logic. Students on academic or community service-based scholarships immediately lose their scholarships if they don't hold up their end of the deal with grades, service hours, etc... and most of those are only worth a small part of the overall tuition and cost of attendance.
A lot of scholarships come with stipulations, I don't see what's shameful about saying, "hey, if you choose to quit the team, you no longer get a free education, free housing, access to first class training facilities, and a cash stipend in your pocket." It is the same standard to which all other students are held.
College is about giving kids opportunities to succeed in life. The fact that these kids have an opportunity to have a professional career is a credit to the kids and the program. Holding a scholarship defeats the entire purpose. It's vindictive nonsense that would be a stain on the program.
(01-02-2019 08:39 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2019 10:27 PM)levydl Wrote: [ -> ]Cancel scholarships and room and board? The vindictiveness of some of you guys is shameful.
Not sure I follow your logic. Students on academic or community service-based scholarships immediately lose their scholarships if they don't hold up their end of the deal with grades, service hours, etc... and most of those are only worth a small part of the overall tuition and cost of attendance.
A lot of scholarships come with stipulations, I don't see what's shameful about saying, "hey, if you choose to quit the team, you no longer get a free education, free housing, access to first class training facilities, and a cash stipend in your pocket." It is the same standard to which all other students are held.
Why are we continuing to pretend that the athletes are regular students? They clearly aren't and shouldn't be "held to the same standards." Kids on academic scholarships don't have 15 hours of practice every week. Kids on academic scholarships don't face tearing an ACL and not being able to work as an engineer for GE. Kids on academic scholarships aren't forced to take the LSAT even if they would get a high score just because it would benefit their school or program.
99% of the players that are considering not playing in bowl games are 4 year players. They've put in countless hours dedicated to their craft and the university. Pulling their scholarships because they sit out 1 game in a fear of losing millions of dollars is a good way to never get another highly rated recruit that has a chance to play in the NFL. If you tried to start pulling scholarships, the coaches and training staff would just start inventing sprained ankles and the kids wouldn't play anyways. Its extremely short sighted.
I understand it.
As a fan, I don't particularly like it. It sure made a mess out of a couple of potentially good bowl games.
College is meant to prepare students for life afterwards. Not all preparation takes place in a classroom. However, it feels like some players have an elevated opinion of themselves.
(01-01-2019 04:53 PM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ]I'm totally ok with it.
That said, we may all have some feels next season if, Mr. Wiggins, does the same. lol
Nevertheless, it seems like a sensible business decision.
I haven't been paying attention to how much 1st round NFL draft picks got paid. But since Greedy Williams sat out yesterday, and he has been mocked @ #5 overall in a few drafts--- I looked up to see how much the 5th overall pick got in 2018.
$17.9 million signing bonus. $17.9 milion! In a dangerous sport where you run the risk of a severe injury on any play, then I have no problem if a player wants to sit out of a glorified exhibition game to protect their draft stock. It's their life-- they have to do what's best for them. They can run their life however they want. And like MC said-- it seems like it's a sensible business decision.
(01-02-2019 09:25 AM)ladeda Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2019 04:53 PM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ]I'm totally ok with it.
That said, we may all have some feels next season if, Mr. Wiggins, does the same. lol
Nevertheless, it seems like a sensible business decision.
I haven't been paying attention to how much 1st round NFL draft picks got paid. But since Greedy Williams sat out yesterday, and he has been mocked @ #5 overall in a few drafts--- I looked up to see how much the 5th overall pick got in 2018.
$17.9 million signing bonus. $17.9 milion! In a dangerous sport where you run the risk of a severe injury on any play, then I have no problem if a player wants to sit out of a glorified exhibition game to protect their draft stock. It's their life-- they have to do what's best for them. They can run their life however they want. And like MC said-- it seems like it's a sensible business decision.
And if he is getting $17.9 million thanks to the training he received from the university, he should have no problem refunding the part of his scholarship he failed to fulfill.
(01-02-2019 09:40 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote: [ -> ] (01-02-2019 09:25 AM)ladeda Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2019 04:53 PM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ]I'm totally ok with it.
That said, we may all have some feels next season if, Mr. Wiggins, does the same. lol
Nevertheless, it seems like a sensible business decision.
I haven't been paying attention to how much 1st round NFL draft picks got paid. But since Greedy Williams sat out yesterday, and he has been mocked @ #5 overall in a few drafts--- I looked up to see how much the 5th overall pick got in 2018.
$17.9 million signing bonus. $17.9 milion! In a dangerous sport where you run the risk of a severe injury on any play, then I have no problem if a player wants to sit out of a glorified exhibition game to protect their draft stock. It's their life-- they have to do what's best for them. They can run their life however they want. And like MC said-- it seems like it's a sensible business decision.
And if he is getting $17.9 million thanks to the training he received from the university, he should have no problem refunding the part of his scholarship he failed to fulfill.
As soon as the Universities start paying the players for the beers they sell during the games or the "bowl bound" t-shirts they are selling at the bookstore. Think Desmond Ridder is going to get a penny off of all the #9 jerseys they sell over the next 3 years?
Even if you really believe that they should owe the money back, it is completely impractical. You would just end up in a worse spot as the kids would show up and play one play and fake a sprained ankle or w/e. At least under the current system, you know ahead of time if they are going to play and can plan around it.
It also would absolutely kill recruiting to say "hey, we are the 1 school in the country that is going to pull and IRS and come after you for back taxes if you don't play in the bowl game."
My final point is why do UC fans even care. It may happen to us once in the next 15 years. We haven't had a player drafted in the first round in my lifetime. Wiggins could MAYBE have a chance, but safety's aren't usually highly drafted anyways and its not like he plays for Alabama. He sure as **** won't be a top 10 pick unless he snags like 15 interceptions next year and if he does that he deserves to take one game off.
(01-02-2019 08:39 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2019 10:27 PM)levydl Wrote: [ -> ]Cancel scholarships and room and board? The vindictiveness of some of you guys is shameful.
Not sure I follow your logic. Students on academic or community service-based scholarships immediately lose their scholarships if they don't hold up their end of the deal with grades, service hours, etc... and most of those are only worth a small part of the overall tuition and cost of attendance.
A lot of scholarships come with stipulations, I don't see what's shameful about saying, "hey, if you choose to quit the team, you no longer get a free education, free housing, access to first class training facilities, and a cash stipend in your pocket." It is the same standard to which all other students are held.
They aren't quitting the team. And the strings attached to academic scholarships don't come with the risks that college football players face. Playing in a bowl game carries the potential of losing millions of dollars, not to mention the ability to walk or to form new memories or live healthily into old age. Other students aren't in similar situations to pro prospect football players.
The way some of you view college athletes is borderline degrading.
I can see I am clearly outnumbered here in my opinion... maybe it's due to this town being so pro-sports oriented, where everything is a business decision about money and only being concerned with one's own self-interest. Most people apparently see nothing wrong with the "I got mine, so screw you" mentality. I find that sad.
Being a team player used to be glorified, now people just think it's foolish. My experiences on athletic teams were quite enriching... the good of the team was placed over the good of the individual, and we all fought toward a mutual goal. Oh well.
(01-02-2019 09:40 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote: [ -> ] (01-02-2019 09:25 AM)ladeda Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2019 04:53 PM)marcuscan Wrote: [ -> ]I'm totally ok with it.
That said, we may all have some feels next season if, Mr. Wiggins, does the same. lol
Nevertheless, it seems like a sensible business decision.
I haven't been paying attention to how much 1st round NFL draft picks got paid. But since Greedy Williams sat out yesterday, and he has been mocked @ #5 overall in a few drafts--- I looked up to see how much the 5th overall pick got in 2018.
$17.9 million signing bonus. $17.9 milion! In a dangerous sport where you run the risk of a severe injury on any play, then I have no problem if a player wants to sit out of a glorified exhibition game to protect their draft stock. It's their life-- they have to do what's best for them. They can run their life however they want. And like MC said-- it seems like it's a sensible business decision.
And if he is getting $17.9 million thanks to the training he received from the university, he should have no problem refunding the part of his scholarship he failed to fulfill.
LOL, I don't know why it always surprises me that the slavemaster mentality of the college sports seeps into the fanbase, but it does. The bargain is so one-sided in favor of the schools, but when a few studs look out for themselves, some fans actually believe that the players are the greedy ones.
How would it impact recruiting if scholarships/housing/etc were pulled from players who sit out? Is this something all schools would pursue or just a few?
We'd all sit here crying if Malik Vann chose UK over UC because he has pro potential and UK administration gave him their word that he was fine with sitting out a meaningless bowl game, meanwhile us here at UC would require him to pay back funds. Bet your mortgage other schools would put us in a negative light during the recruiting process too.
Personally, it sucks but I get where the players are coming from.. there are concrete examples of star players - future top 10 NFL draft picks - getting hurt in their final game.. a final game that is meaningless for everyone except the TV partners and bowl game chiefs.
I'm fine with it for guys with NFL dreams that appear to be locked into the NFL draft. Those insurance policies are so small compared to what they can earn in the NFL. They really are glorified exhibitions and we have seen multiple players lose millions of dollars or even miss out on the NFL because of a major injury in a game that doesn't mean a ton (Trust me, I want to win and I'd be bummed if a UC player sat out, but I would understand and still be fine with it).
What will be interesting as when we start seeing more guys sit out during the season if their team is eliminated from the playoffs to protect their draft stock. I believe Ed Oliver did that this season as it seemed that he was certainly healthy enough to play, which is why that situation boiled over. I think we will see more of that and in that case, I wish there was something that could be done. Those players quit on their team and are taking up a scholarship. Of course proving it could be difficult. That just bugs me more as players are trying to win league championships and that throws the balance out of whack and those are real games. That bugs me a lot more.
Houston would have put up much more of a fight late in the season with Oliver available.
(01-02-2019 10:40 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ]I can see I am clearly outnumbered here in my opinion... maybe it's due to this town being so pro-sports oriented, where everything is a business decision about money and only being concerned with one's own self-interest. Most people apparently see nothing wrong with the "I got mine, so screw you" mentality. I find that sad.
Being a team player used to be glorified, now people just think it's foolish. My experiences on athletic teams were quite enriching... the good of the team was placed over the good of the individual, and we all fought toward a mutual goal. Oh well.
You are conflating your athletic experience with the business of sports. Football is how these kids will make a living. Of course there are other factors involved.
Think about if playing the tuba carried the same risk of injury of playing in a bowl game. If you had an offer from the New York Philharmonic, would you still play graduation? You'd have to be a freaking moron.
(01-02-2019 10:40 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ]I can see I am clearly outnumbered here in my opinion... maybe it's due to this town being so pro-sports oriented, where everything is a business decision about money and only being concerned with one's own self-interest. Most people apparently see nothing wrong with the "I got mine, so screw you" mentality. I find that sad.
Being a team player used to be glorified, now people just think it's foolish. My experiences on athletic teams were quite enriching... the good of the team was placed over the good of the individual, and we all fought toward a mutual goal. Oh well.
Our season and any goals attached to it ended after the loss to UCF. If you were possibly going to make 10 million dollars so long as you don't get hurt between December 1, 2018 and April 20th of 2019, would you suit up to play against a 6-6 Virginia Tech team in the rain on a Tuesday at noon? I sure as **** wouldn't.
The sad reality of the situation is that many of these kids would never be in college if they weren't superstar athletes. Their chance to make money, and some serious scratch at that, is to play in the NFL. I don't blame them one bit for skipping a meaningless bowl game.
as an aside, as pro sports contracts inflate more and more, I'm curious when this will hit college basketball.
As a quick unscientific example, Jerome Robinson went 13th overall in last years NBA draft out of Boston College. BC failed to make the big dance last year but played in the NIT. At what point does Robinson consider sitting out. Troy Brown out of Oregon went 15th overall as another example and Oregon went to the NIT. Compared to the true NCAA Tournament, the NIT is nothing... a meaningless "bowl game" .
Football is obviously more physical but these guys sit out mainly out of concern for their legs, especially the knees, and freak accidents can happen just as easily in basketball.
(01-02-2019 11:08 AM)dubcat14 Wrote: [ -> ]as an aside, as pro sports contracts inflate more and more, I'm curious when this will hit college basketball.
As a quick unscientific example, Jerome Robinson went 13th overall in last years NBA draft out of Boston College. BC failed to make the big dance last year but played in the NIT. At what point does Robinson consider sitting out.
Football is obviously more physical but these guys sit out mainly out of concern for their legs, especially the knees, and freak accidents can happen just as easily in basketball.
This may change but I think the point where I encourage it is when winning a championship is out of reach. If a team doesn't make the NCAA tournament I wouldn't advise playing in the NIT or any other small tournament. Or in football if your team isn't in the playoffs.
(01-02-2019 10:40 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ]I can see I am clearly outnumbered here in my opinion... maybe it's due to this town being so pro-sports oriented, where everything is a business decision about money and only being concerned with one's own self-interest.
Oh come on. This has nothing to do with pro-sports orientation and everything to do with looking out for what is best for a young kid's long term future. It's not selfish to want these kids to be a success and it reflects well on the university and the program when they are. If skipping a glorified exhibition helps them, that doesn't mean it's just about self interest.
(01-02-2019 10:40 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ]Most people apparently see nothing wrong with the "I got mine, so screw you" mentality. I find that sad.
Please. What an absurd way to look at a young kid looking out for his future, that likely gave a ton to the university and was paid nothing for it.
(01-02-2019 10:40 AM)TubaCat Wrote: [ -> ]Being a team player used to be glorified, now people just think it's foolish. My experiences on athletic teams were quite enriching... the good of the team was placed over the good of the individual, and we all fought toward a mutual goal. Oh well.
Everyone one here values being a good teammate. So many of these kids gave a ton to their team. They did plenty for their university as well. They surely placed the good of the team over their own good time and time again.
(01-01-2019 05:17 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: [ -> ]Completely reasonable. More bothered by the way they get ripped for it than anything. Sitting out an exhibition game to protect your financial future is just not a big deal.
Not picking on you but what is this talk about a bowl game being an exhibition game? Another guy posted 'meaningless bowl game'. Where is the logic in that in UC's world of G5 football?
If we beat Navy, USF, UCF, etc during the regular season we could win a championship and put another nice trophy in the case and another championship year marker up in Nippert.
If we win a bowl game we would be named champions of the "XXX Bowl", put a nice trophy in the case, and a bowl championship designation up in Nippert.
Same rewards! And neither championship is giving UC the chance to be ranked #1 in the country at the end of the year. So from my perspective - the bowl championship is every bit as significant as an AAC championship. And in this year's bowl game we were afforded the ability to defeat a P5 team. Certainly a conference championship is only earned beating G5 teams. Plus we have no true rivals in the AAC.
And I assure you by the reactions from the players on the field after the game - they feel the same way!
(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Ragpicker Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2019 05:17 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: [ -> ]Completely reasonable. More bothered by the way they get ripped for it than anything. Sitting out an exhibition game to protect your financial future is just not a big deal.
Not picking on you but what is this talk about a bowl game being an exhibition game? Another guy posted 'meaningless bowl game'. Where is the logic in that in UC's world of G5 football?
If we beat Navy, USF, UCF, etc during the regular season we could win a championship and put another nice trophy in the case and another championship year marker up in Nippert.
If we win a bowl game we would be named champions of the "XXX Bowl", put a nice trophy in the case, and a bowl championship designation up in Nippert.
Same rewards! And neither championship is giving UC the chance to be ranked #1 in the country at the end of the year. So from my perspective - the bowl championship is every bit as significant as an AAC championship.
And I assure you by the reactions from the players on the field after the game - they feel the same way!
I saw the perspective somewhere (could have been here) that college football is one of the only sports where more than one team can end the season on a positive note...winning their last game. I like that perspective. I enjoy bowl games, especially ones that pit two teams, that don't normally play, against each other. LSU/UCF was fun. OSU/Washington was fun. Michigan and Florida have played recently so that wasn't as cool. Texas and Georgia was. I enjoyed watching UC's game but it would be nice to play a different "P"5 team in the near future...maybe in one of the access bowls next year.