If Toledo does not win a MAC title in 2020, Candle and the entire staff should be fired. Toledo came into this season without a capable quarterback ready to go in the post Phillip Ely/Logan Woodside era. Granted recruiting a capable quarterback was probably a little difficult when potential recruits knew there was little chance of playing as long as Ely and Woodside were there, but as Brian Jones proved in the post Bruce era, you don't necessarily need an all-american to get the job done. It was sad to know that the best group of receivers in Toledo history was largely underutilized due to lack of quarterback talent.
The future has possibilities. There were quite a few underclassmen at the offensive line position on this year's roster. Toledo is still deep at the running back spot. There were talented defensive tackles recruited in last year's and this year's recruiting classes.
The defensive strategy is still a mystery to me. It has been here since the Beckman era and Candle still swears by it. Either it's an idiotic strategy or they can't recruit the right players to run it. Either reason is reason enough to fire the defensive coaching staff, and if Candle wants to stand by this defense, he should be fired too. It's a great defense if your'e okay with losing to Northern Illinois and offenses with dual threat qbs every year. The only reason Toledo beat Northern Illinois last year is because Northern was a little down.
I'm not unreasonable, given what needs to be built up and established, I expect next year to have about the same results as this year. However, 2020 needs to be a MAC Championship season or Candle needs to be gone. If you're getting paid a million dollars in the worst conference in all of college football, you should be winning the conference every year.
Looking up at the press box, we've won 2 MACCs every decade since the 60s so we need another next season to keep that streak going. Still, Candle could coach us to a one-loss, top 25 season and if there's a MAC team with unknown talent that goes undefeated and top 15 finish, we won't get a MACC. Do you then fire Candle for wiffing on a MACC? I'm comfortable with either of our two qb's starting next year because both are going to be that much better next year. If one of the newcomers are good enough to win the starting job then we've got the next Bruce G, Big Ben, Leftwich... Some fans want to talk about the best wide receivers ever but I saw dropped passes - easy catches that cost us at least two games. I'm not trying to call out any players because football is a team sport and it takes team effort to win a championship. What was most frustrating/disappointing for me this year was that most of these players played on a MACC team last year and they know what it takes to get there. We saw some good football this year but where was that gut-check effort when we absolutely needed the win? And the MAC was the weakest this year and last as it's been in a long time. I think we're in good shape to win a MACC next year. I'm not saying its a slam dunk but who in the MAC is that much better than us that we have no chance?
I have a feeling the defensive staff and OL coach will be retained and we’ll have the same problems as last year. Talent wise, we’ll be fine and since our “youth” will be a year older, I think 8-9 wins will be realistic. The key will be finding a quarterback that can lead the offense with not a lot of catches back from the receivers or tight ends. My faith in Candle has faded. Like others, I didn’t cheer when he was named the replacement for Campbell but I understood why that decision was made. A lot can change between now and next August and hopefully so in regards to a new DC and perhaps a transfer or two from some stud P5 grad players that can step in and help us out immediately
I agree with a lot of your points. Who knows what the problem was exactly? All I know is we've been down before and always bounced back. Toledo has been THE MOST consistent team in The MAC for a very long time. No other MAC Team can boast about their resume' like our beloved Rockets. Frankly, not many P5 Teams can either. I am looking forward to next year and in the not so distance future I can't wait for the next three MBB Games. Happy New Year and...................
GO ROCKETS
(12-28-2018 11:33 AM)falconplucker Wrote: [ -> ]but as Brian Jones proved in the post Bruce era, you don't necessarily need an all-american to get the job done.
Jones preceded Bruce, and led the NCAA in completion percentage in 2002. Also third in Efficiency behind Brad Banks and Leftwich.
Post-Bruce, we had four consecutive losing seasons, so I would argue that the job didn't get done very well at all.
(12-29-2018 06:48 AM)Carolina Rocket Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2018 11:33 AM)falconplucker Wrote: [ -> ]but as Brian Jones proved in the post Bruce era, you don't necessarily need an all-american to get the job done.
Jones preceded Bruce, and led the NCAA in completion percentage in 2002. Also third in Efficiency behind Brad Banks and Leftwich.
Post-Bruce, we had four consecutive losing seasons, so I would argue that the job didn't get done very well at all.
Being fair to the post you responded to, it should be added you're arguing against something different than what he said. It doesn't require an All-American at the QB spot and it doesn't as Jones' year showed. QB should have been better prepared but the one they prepared, they let run instead of committing to the pocket and getting the ball to those three high lister receivers and the RBs. Discipling that O-Line that cost drive after drive with unforced errors should in MY opinion be added to this defensive discussion.
D wasn't the only problem. Buck stops at the head coach and the AD, at the million dollors and those that affirmed it. This whole coaching line has become next buddy up. That can't continue. With what we've seen from two high profile, highly visible grads as well as former coaches, there might be other concerns, well hidden that at any higher profile program would come with the speculation. That's what buddy systems do, hide things. Get it right before the past can haunt.
Candle believes in his "system". That also means he isn't flexible and not only won't change what he's doing, won't change his staff unless forced to. You don't have to be a genius to see why we give up so many long runs or are out of position in the secondary-just look at the tape.
O'Brien was lazy in hiring Candle. Why didn't we do a national search?
As for the suggestion that the whole staff be fired if 2020 isn't a championship season, O'Brien gave our millionaire coach a contract extension until 2023.
(12-29-2018 07:12 AM)eastisbest Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2018 06:48 AM)Carolina Rocket Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2018 11:33 AM)falconplucker Wrote: [ -> ]but as Brian Jones proved in the post Bruce era, you don't necessarily need an all-american to get the job done.
Jones preceded Bruce, and led the NCAA in completion percentage in 2002. Also third in Efficiency behind Brad Banks and Leftwich.
Post-Bruce, we had four consecutive losing seasons, so I would argue that the job didn't get done very well at all.
Being fair to the post you responded to, it should be added you're arguing against something different than what he said. It doesn't require an All-American at the QB spot and it doesn't as Jones' year showed. QB should have been better prepared but the one they prepared, they let run instead of committing to the pocket and getting the ball to those three high lister receivers and the RBs. Discipling that O-Line that cost drive after drive with unforced errors should in MY opinion be added to this defensive discussion.
D wasn't the only problem. Buck stops at the head coach and the AD, at the million dollors and those that affirmed it. This whole coaching line has become next buddy up. That can't continue. With what we've seen from two high profile, highly visible grads as well as former coaches, there might be other concerns, well hidden that at any higher profile program would come with the speculation. That's what buddy systems do, hide things. Get it right before the past can haunt.
My feeling is that Jones was much better than "average". The carousel of guys we had after Bruce were largely average, and the records of those teams are representative of that. An average QB is not anything that makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
(12-28-2018 01:29 PM)RocketJeff Wrote: [ -> ]Looking up at the press box, we've won 2 MACCs every decade since the 60s so we need another next season to keep that streak going. Still, Candle could coach us to a one-loss, top 25 season and if there's a MAC team with unknown talent that goes undefeated and top 15 finish, we won't get a MACC. Do you then fire Candle for wiffing on a MACC? I'm comfortable with either of our two qb's starting next year because both are going to be that much better next year. If one of the newcomers are good enough to win the starting job then we've got the next Bruce G, Big Ben, Leftwich... Some fans want to talk about the best wide receivers ever but I saw dropped passes - easy catches that cost us at least two games. I'm not trying to call out any players because football is a team sport and it takes team effort to win a championship. What was most frustrating/disappointing for me this year was that most of these players played on a MACC team last year and they know what it takes to get there. We saw some good football this year but where was that gut-check effort when we absolutely needed the win? And the MAC was the weakest this year and last as it's been in a long time. I think we're in good shape to win a MACC next year. I'm not saying its a slam dunk but who in the MAC is that much better than us that we have no chance?
(12-29-2018 07:30 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote: [ -> ]Candle believes in his "system". That also means he isn't flexible and not only won't change what he's doing, won't change his staff unless forced to. You don't have to be a genius to see why we give up so many long runs or are out of position in the secondary-just look at the tape.
O'Brien was lazy in hiring Candle. Why didn't we do a national search?
As for the suggestion that the whole staff be fired if 2020 isn't a championship season, O'Brien gave our millionaire coach a contract extension until 2023.
Well I wouldn't fire him if he finished with one loss and in the top 25. I agree with other points. Candle kept saying all year about how "young" Toledo is. Toledo's Junior class is massive. To me that was just an easy excuse. I did have my years and Jones mixed up, but there should have been a quarterback on the roster, who could at least run the offense and complete a pass to wide open receivers. I'm not picking on Peters. I think Peters was never really meant to be a starter. He just happened to be there after Woodside left. However, Bradley looked like he will need another year, before living up to that 4 star QB status. Toledo might as well start Bradley, because I don't see Peters being capable of improvement. The other issue is that I agree with is that Candle, at least on the surface during interviews, seems to believe in his system to the point of inflexibility. The defensive scheme has never worked. It did work at Iowa State this year, but they had the right players to run it. So if he wants to live and die by a system that he can't seem to recruit to run, then he should get sacked. I'll give him (as if I have any power) another season to retool and make some adjustments, because learning to be a head coach is no easy, but to be a successful head coach, you do have to learn from mistakes and make adjustments. Toledo has the talent to get 7-8 wins a season every season, but the whole "championship goes through Toledo" appears to be a little overstated given the results, and if next year is a bust a large senior class will be wasted. Perhaps I wouldn't be so critical, if he wasn't getting a potential 1 million dollar salary, to win a conference that has shown over the last couple of bowl seasons to be very weak.
I still have faith in coach Candle. I also have faith in the Offensive line coach. They need to recruit a little better players for the O-line and I agree it is on them. But you guys act like everything is falling apart. It is not falling apart I am confident that with Carter Bradley after having a year of watching will lead us back to the top of the MAC. This season actually met expectations for me except I hoped we would be EMU and Northern you can't put it on the coach that the QB ran more than he should have I am sure Candle was no happier with Mitch doing this than we were.
Also get over this coach making a million dollars that is what is happening everywhere right now get over it.
(12-29-2018 09:49 AM)rocketpaul Wrote: [ -> ]I still have faith in coach Candle. I also have faith in the Offensive line coach. They need to recruit a little better players for the O-line and I agree it is on them. But you guys act like everything is falling apart. It is not falling apart I am confident that with Carter Bradley after having a year of watching will lead us back to the top of the MAC. This season actually met expectations for me except I hoped we would be EMU and Northern you can't put it on the coach that the QB ran more than he should have I am sure Candle was no happier with Mitch doing this than we were.
Also get over this coach making a million dollars that is what is happening everywhere right now get over it.
We Toledo fans should feel grateful that our University can afford to pay our head football coach a million dollar plus salary. If he keeps winning, I say pay him even more. But he has a lot of work to do.
It’s tough to recruit and retain quality assistants, when UT pays them on the low end of all D1.
(12-29-2018 10:20 AM)inductchuck16 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2018 09:49 AM)rocketpaul Wrote: [ -> ]I still have faith in coach Candle. I also have faith in the Offensive line coach. They need to recruit a little better players for the O-line and I agree it is on them. But you guys act like everything is falling apart. It is not falling apart I am confident that with Carter Bradley after having a year of watching will lead us back to the top of the MAC. This season actually met expectations for me except I hoped we would be EMU and Northern you can't put it on the coach that the QB ran more than he should have I am sure Candle was no happier with Mitch doing this than we were.
Also get over this coach making a million dollars that is what is happening everywhere right now get over it.
We Toledo fans should feel grateful that our University can afford to pay our head football coach a million dollar plus salary. If he keeps winning, I say pay him even more. But he has a lot of work to do.
IMO, while a million dollars is not a lot on the national scale, it is a lot on the MAC scale and under the University's budget. Northern pays their head coach a little over 600,000 a year, and App state a little over 700,000. My main point is that just about anyone can come in and recruit some decent players, win half the non-conference games, and beat middle of the road and MAC bottom feeders. The challenge is having a head coach who can consistently beat the top teams in conference. Toledo has not shown the ability to consistently beat NIU or teams with dual threat qbs, and maybe not at all when it comes to the dual threat qbs. Those are things that prevent championships and a coaching staff has to figure out. If 2020 is the same-old-same-old, then he needs to go. You are either playing for championships or you're not.
After the bowl game loss, Candle commented about dumb penalties and this has to change. This has been going on for years. Guys make a good play then get penalized for taunting or some other offense. Offside penalties are really common. So many good drives are stopped due to stupid penalties. Well disciplined teams do not do this virtually every game. This is coaching. Coaches are to be the adults in the room, not buddies of the players. The attitude of the whole team needs to be changed.
(12-29-2018 10:41 AM)TampaRocket Wrote: [ -> ]It’s tough to recruit and retain quality assistants, when UT pays them on the low end of all D1.
Perhaps Coach will agree to give up some of his money? If his number truly is $1 million all in, then a $200,000 contribution from him to help pay for good assistant coaches might help, and I’m sure Coach could still live comfortably with $800,000.
UT'S OL and DL were rated #5 and #9 in the MAC coming into the season.
Need to be able to win in the trenches. You only have to look at the critical stats to see Rockets were in the bottom half of the MAC. Needs to be fixed now or heads need to roll. Job did not get done this season. Rockets did well against bad teams, not so well against mediocre to good teams. Thank goodness a Clemson, Oklahoma, etc was not on this years schedule.
2019
08/31 - at Kentucky
09/14 - Murray State
09/21 - at Colorado State
09/28 - BYU
Since we are talking about 2019 let's look at who Toledo has in non conference. With our QB play i see 1-3 a real possibility.
EMU likely Homecoming
NIU home
WMU home
At Ball St
At CMU
At BUGS. My gosh they might win someday
Who knows who ESPN will stick us with for other two games. I have lost the delusion our league has a say
Where do the eight wins come from?
(12-29-2018 09:49 AM)rocketpaul Wrote: [ -> ]I still have faith in coach Candle. I also have faith in the Offensive line coach. They need to recruit a little better players for the O-line and I agree it is on them. But you guys act like everything is falling apart. It is not falling apart I am confident that with Carter Bradley after having a year of watching will lead us back to the top of the MAC. This season actually met expectations for me except I hoped we would be EMU and Northern you can't put it on the coach that the QB ran more than he should have I am sure Candle was no happier with Mitch doing this than we were.
Also get over this coach making a million dollars that is what is happening everywhere right now get over it.
Everywhere in the MAC?
(12-29-2018 08:47 PM)indianasniff Wrote: [ -> ]2019
08/31 - at Kentucky
09/14 - Murray State
09/21 - at Colorado State
09/28 - BYU
Since we are talking about 2019 let's look at who Toledo has in non conference. With our QB play i see 1-3 a real possibility.
EMU likely Homecoming
NIU home
WMU home
At Ball St
At CMU
At BUGS. My gosh they might win someday
Who knows who ESPN will stick us with for other two games. I have lost the delusion our league has a say
Where do the eight wins come from?
We tend to play our best football in September against OOC competition so I’m thinking 2-2 there. For conference games, 6-2 isn’t out of reach given that WMU and NIU are home and the East is terrible except for Ohio and maybe Buffalo. Not predicting 8-4 now but I certainly see 8-9 wins as attainable
ESPN/MAC office will always put the best east team preseason against Toledo for eyeballs matchup in November. Toledo does not get a rotation of east schools because of the BG game. Don’t believe me, look up how long it has been since UT has played Miami
Don’t be surprised to see Buffalo on schedule again
And I would also be really surprised to see a Kent trip to Glass Bowl even though a normal rotation would suggest that would happen
I am just being realistic. Poor QB play and tough non conference schedule does not lead to many 8 win seasons
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