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(11-06-2018 03:27 PM)ManleyPointer Wrote: [ -> ]Biola is new to D2. Probably don't have the resources to make another move up. But they seem a lot like Azusa without the football.

Biola is currently in Year 3 of D2 reclassifying.

(11-06-2018 05:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-06-2018 02:39 PM)RobtheAggie Wrote: [ -> ]Cameron is on Probation for all sports if I remember correctly. Academy of Art simply was in the footprint. My original criteria were simply to identify schools that could potentially move up, they did fit that. I agree that the Alaska and Hawai'i schools are too far afield.

I seem to remember that Westminister had to restart their transition process. They are not done yet with the NAIA-NCAA II process. That is why I did not include them on the list.

I guess what I am seeing is a confirmation that there are not really any schools that just jump out that have not already been discussed. Ad nauseum.


Just checked. Cameron is not on probation.
Central State, Ohio entire program
Seattle Pacific University Entire program until March 9th, 2019
West Texas A&M University Football
Eastern New Mexico University Entire program
Fayetteville State University Women's basketball

Cheney was on the list, but they dropped out of the NCAA. The only school in the footprint that is on probation without football is Seattle Pacific. Not sure you want to double down in the same town. Western Washington and Saint Martin's would be better.

Seattle Pacific Women's Soccer, only, is on probation; not the entire program.

Westminister became a full D2 member in July 2018 and completed their D2 reclassification on schedule.
(11-07-2018 08:13 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote: [ -> ]My mistake about Cameron, sorry. Also I guess that I am older than I thought. I knew that Westminster originally had some issues with reclassification. I guess they are done with it now.

Westminster's only issue was that they applied to D2 without doing the requisite feasibility study. The committee said "nice try, but come back when you have the study done". Once they did that they had no issues.
(11-08-2018 06:50 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-07-2018 08:13 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote: [ -> ]My mistake about Cameron, sorry. Also I guess that I am older than I thought. I knew that Westminster originally had some issues with reclassification. I guess they are done with it now.

Westminster's only issue was that they applied to D2 without doing the requisite feasibility study. The committee said "nice try, but come back when you have the study done". Once they did that they had no issues.


I noticed that they gone up and down like a yo-yo.
This is their second stint in RMAC. They were in RMAC 1967-79, then dropped down. They had football at the time. A couple of years ago, the AD at the time was talking about the transition back to D2 that they would look into adding back more sports including football. I just can't find these older articles because Google's search have given me bad results.
(11-08-2018 06:50 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ]Westminster's only issue was that they applied to D2 without doing the requisite feasibility study. The committee said "nice try, but come back when you have the study done". Once they did that they had no issues.

Yes, I had forgotten that Westminster applied in consecutive years after being denied the first time.

(11-08-2018 07:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed that they gone up and down like a yo-yo.
This is their second stint in RMAC. They were in RMAC 1967-79, then dropped down. They had football at the time. A couple of years ago, the AD at the time was talking about the transition back to D2 that they would look into adding back more sports including football. I just can't find these older articles because Google's search have given me bad results.

Is there a problem with Westminster being a member of the conference on 2 separate occasions? They didn't go up and down like a yo-yo either. The RMAC was a NAIA conference during Westminster's first tenure meaning Westminster was always a NAIA school until they joined the D2 RMAC. New Mexico Highlands and CSU-Pueblo have been RMAC members 3 separate times. Fort Lewis and Regis have also been members twice along with former members Colorado College, Fort Hays State, and Western New Mexico. It's happened in other conferences as well, such as Abilene Christian and Lamar are now in the Southland for the second time.

In the 2015 press release on the Westminster athletic site announcing they were accepted by the NCAA the word "football" is never mentioned. If football is in the future at Westminster, it is a very long way down the road.
(11-08-2018 08:52 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 06:50 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ]Westminster's only issue was that they applied to D2 without doing the requisite feasibility study. The committee said "nice try, but come back when you have the study done". Once they did that they had no issues.

Yes, I had forgotten that Westminster applied in consecutive years after being denied the first time.

(11-08-2018 07:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed that they gone up and down like a yo-yo.
This is their second stint in RMAC. They were in RMAC 1967-79, then dropped down. They had football at the time. A couple of years ago, the AD at the time was talking about the transition back to D2 that they would look into adding back more sports including football. I just can't find these older articles because Google's search have given me bad results.

Is there a problem with Westminster being a member of the conference on 2 separate occasions? They didn't go up and down like a yo-yo either. The RMAC was a NAIA conference during Westminster's first tenure meaning Westminster was always a NAIA school until they joined the D2 RMAC. New Mexico Highlands and CSU-Pueblo have been RMAC members 3 separate times. Fort Lewis and Regis have also been members twice along with former members Colorado College, Fort Hays State, and Western New Mexico. It's happened in other conferences as well, such as Abilene Christian and Lamar are now in the Southland for the second time.

In the 2015 press release on the Westminster athletic site announcing they were accepted by the NCAA the word "football" is never mentioned. If football is in the future at Westminster, it is a very long way down the road.


I did not say it was on their website. I said that he was interviewed by the local paper talking about coming back into D2. He didi mentioned sometime in the future, not now, that they could restart their program. Where did I said they were going add programs now?
(11-08-2018 09:28 AM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 07:20 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-07-2018 09:27 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]NMSU seems to love the company of lowly rated academic and research schools. Hang out with a bunch of commuter schools and former JC’s.

Any President in that predicament would try to get other higher rated schools in with the lure of FBS, but maybe I’m just too narrow minded.

I know that all you are doing is trollings, but I think that you misunderstand NMSU to a great extent. They would much rather be in a conference with like schools, but they want a western centered one. They could have stayed in the Sun Belt, but instead chose to jump to the WAC, when it was full of like institutions. I still think that eventually they will end up in the MWC or CUSA/Sun Belt reorganization and be with like institutions.

For the time being, the WAC is what it is. The overall athletics are getting better. Give UTRGV a few more years and it will have the merger figured out and be a much stronger school as well.
Am only trying to show a Presidents logical viewpoint, but that iseems to be totally rejected here. NMSU had an open offer to the Big Sky and that wasn’t accepted. Idaho and the Montanas are similar flagship and land grants that any NMSU admin would see as a conference fit just based on academics (but not on geography), but somehow Seattle and DII moveups are acceptable?

NMSU is staying in the WAC because a realignment is coming that will be much more justifiable than joining the Big Sky or Summit. It includes UTRGV at FBS, UMKC, GCU, Cal Baptist and new FBS transitioning schools. But new DII moveups, if they happen for the WAC, would only anger NMSU brass and would hasten their leaving the WAC. DII moveups should have happened when Idaho left, not five years later, as that leaves NMSU 10 years wandering in the desert when it actually has a plan.

UTRGV, UVU, and Seattle should be very fearful of their final destination if the WAC is only grasping for straws with DII moveups as NMSU could very well leave and the WAC would then have no autobid. Those DII moveups look a lot like travel partners for the schools in a depleted Big Sky to get by cheaper.

DII moveups only stabilize the WAC, not hasten NMSU's departure. They're not leaving unless a Sun Belt or MWC invite comes their way, or they decide to drop football to FCS, or drop it altogether. And even if they follow action #2 or action #3 they'll have options due to their strong basketball program.

But should everything go down the toilet? UVU sans football and UTRGV have some question marks - I suppose they could look towards the Summit as a last gasp option. Seattle has good location, acceptable academics, there are three other D1 western conferences who would be okay with them.
(11-08-2018 09:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 08:52 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 06:50 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ]Westminster's only issue was that they applied to D2 without doing the requisite feasibility study. The committee said "nice try, but come back when you have the study done". Once they did that they had no issues.

Yes, I had forgotten that Westminster applied in consecutive years after being denied the first time.

(11-08-2018 07:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed that they gone up and down like a yo-yo.
This is their second stint in RMAC. They were in RMAC 1967-79, then dropped down. They had football at the time. A couple of years ago, the AD at the time was talking about the transition back to D2 that they would look into adding back more sports including football. I just can't find these older articles because Google's search have given me bad results.

Is there a problem with Westminster being a member of the conference on 2 separate occasions? They didn't go up and down like a yo-yo either. The RMAC was a NAIA conference during Westminster's first tenure meaning Westminster was always a NAIA school until they joined the D2 RMAC. New Mexico Highlands and CSU-Pueblo have been RMAC members 3 separate times. Fort Lewis and Regis have also been members twice along with former members Colorado College, Fort Hays State, and Western New Mexico. It's happened in other conferences as well, such as Abilene Christian and Lamar are now in the Southland for the second time.

In the 2015 press release on the Westminster athletic site announcing they were accepted by the NCAA the word "football" is never mentioned. If football is in the future at Westminster, it is a very long way down the road.


I did not say it was on their website. I said that he was interviewed by the local paper talking about coming back into D2. He didi mentioned sometime in the future, not now, that they could restart their program. Where did I said they were going add programs now?

And where did I say that you said they were going to add programs now? You stated you had an article with information about football and I did the same thing. I also said exactly what article it was and exactly where to find it.

Again, Westminster was never previously in D2 therefore they can not "come back" to D2.
(11-09-2018 01:32 AM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 09:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 08:52 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 06:50 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ]Westminster's only issue was that they applied to D2 without doing the requisite feasibility study. The committee said "nice try, but come back when you have the study done". Once they did that they had no issues.

Yes, I had forgotten that Westminster applied in consecutive years after being denied the first time.

(11-08-2018 07:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed that they gone up and down like a yo-yo.
This is their second stint in RMAC. They were in RMAC 1967-79, then dropped down. They had football at the time. A couple of years ago, the AD at the time was talking about the transition back to D2 that they would look into adding back more sports including football. I just can't find these older articles because Google's search have given me bad results.

Is there a problem with Westminster being a member of the conference on 2 separate occasions? They didn't go up and down like a yo-yo either. The RMAC was a NAIA conference during Westminster's first tenure meaning Westminster was always a NAIA school until they joined the D2 RMAC. New Mexico Highlands and CSU-Pueblo have been RMAC members 3 separate times. Fort Lewis and Regis have also been members twice along with former members Colorado College, Fort Hays State, and Western New Mexico. It's happened in other conferences as well, such as Abilene Christian and Lamar are now in the Southland for the second time.

In the 2015 press release on the Westminster athletic site announcing they were accepted by the NCAA the word "football" is never mentioned. If football is in the future at Westminster, it is a very long way down the road.


I did not say it was on their website. I said that he was interviewed by the local paper talking about coming back into D2. He didi mentioned sometime in the future, not now, that they could restart their program. Where did I said they were going add programs now?

And where did I say that you said they were going to add programs now? You stated you had an article with information about football and I did the same thing. I also said exactly what article it was and exactly where to find it.

Again, Westminster was never previously in D2 therefore they can not "come back" to D2.


RMAC was never NAIA. They were considered small colleges when the split happen between colleges and university. There were 3 at the time. NAIA, Colleges and Universities. Than it split again in divisions 1, 2 and 3. RMAC chose D2 coming from the college division.
(11-09-2018 09:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-09-2018 01:32 AM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 09:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 08:52 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-08-2018 06:50 PM)teamvsn Wrote: [ -> ]Westminster's only issue was that they applied to D2 without doing the requisite feasibility study. The committee said "nice try, but come back when you have the study done". Once they did that they had no issues.

Yes, I had forgotten that Westminster applied in consecutive years after being denied the first time.

(11-08-2018 07:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed that they gone up and down like a yo-yo.
This is their second stint in RMAC. They were in RMAC 1967-79, then dropped down. They had football at the time. A couple of years ago, the AD at the time was talking about the transition back to D2 that they would look into adding back more sports including football. I just can't find these older articles because Google's search have given me bad results.

Is there a problem with Westminster being a member of the conference on 2 separate occasions? They didn't go up and down like a yo-yo either. The RMAC was a NAIA conference during Westminster's first tenure meaning Westminster was always a NAIA school until they joined the D2 RMAC. New Mexico Highlands and CSU-Pueblo have been RMAC members 3 separate times. Fort Lewis and Regis have also been members twice along with former members Colorado College, Fort Hays State, and Western New Mexico. It's happened in other conferences as well, such as Abilene Christian and Lamar are now in the Southland for the second time.

In the 2015 press release on the Westminster athletic site announcing they were accepted by the NCAA the word "football" is never mentioned. If football is in the future at Westminster, it is a very long way down the road.


I did not say it was on their website. I said that he was interviewed by the local paper talking about coming back into D2. He didi mentioned sometime in the future, not now, that they could restart their program. Where did I said they were going add programs now?

And where did I say that you said they were going to add programs now? You stated you had an article with information about football and I did the same thing. I also said exactly what article it was and exactly where to find it.

Again, Westminster was never previously in D2 therefore they can not "come back" to D2.


RMAC was never NAIA. They were considered small colleges when the split happen between colleges and university. There were 3 at the time. NAIA, Colleges and Universities. Than it split again in divisions 1, 2 and 3. RMAC chose D2 coming from the college division.

RMAC History - RMAC website
Quote:1990-1993
During the 1990 RMAC Spring Meetings, Kearney State and Wayne State withdrew their membership. Southern Colorado and Western New Mexico left on July 1, 1990 and Fort Lewis said it would leave in 1991. Brechler retired as RMAC commissioner and his wife, Wanda, was named commissioner for the 1990-91 RMAC year. During the 1990-91 season, Fort Lewis was retained as an associate member for the sports of football, wrestling and softball while New Mexico Highlands rejoined the conference. In August 1991, Kurt Patberg was named the RMAC commissioner. During the 1992-93 season, all RMAC institutions gave a three-year commitment to the league and the league moved into the NCAA Division II ranks. Anheuser-Busch, Rawlings and the Ramada Hotel-Denver West joined forces with the RMAC as corporate sponsors. A new logo was adopted and the RMAC Seal would be used for official league items only. The RMAC Week-In-Review television show on Prime Sports Network (now Fox Sports Rocky Mountain) was developed, post season basketball tournaments were held and conference baseball teams participated in the Mile High Intercollegiate Baseball League. Adams State won the RMAC's initial two NCAA Division II titles with victories in men's and women's cross country in 1992 and 1993. Phillips 66 then became a major corporate sponsor.

How can the RMAC move into the NCAA Division II ranks if they already are Division II? It was not a D1 or D3 conference in 1992 which leaves NAIA. Additionally; Mesa State lost the NAIA football championship game in 1982, 1983, 1990 while Adams State lost in 1988.
Westminster's history in a nutshell:

They were originally members of the RRAC when it was an NAIA conference
Sometime in the '70s, Westminster dropped athletics
Westminster restarted athletics in the '90s, joining the NAIA and the Frontier conference
Westminster went D2/RRAC in 2015.
Reference URL's