CSNbbs

If ND FB joined the ACC who is your 16th? (Or do you get creative with 3 pods of 5?)

What's your division alignment?

Which OOC games do the Irish keep?

if ND ever joins a conf, it won't be in are lifetime

Of the schools that the ACC could possibly land as #16, West Virginia is the best choice, even if the ACC doesn't think so. As I've done with other 16-school setups, I'd align the conference into 4 pods that rotate between two 8-team divisions (Atlantic/Coastal) in a 3-year cycle. The pods are all fairly well balanced in average football strength. The conference schedule is 8 games (7 in-division + 1 crossover). Each team has a protected crossover in another pod and an alternate crossover in yet another pod for years in which the protected crossovers share a division. Within a 6-year span, a team plays its pod mates and protected crossover 6 times, its alternate crossover 4 times, and all other teams twice.

ACC

School: Protected crossover, Alternate crossover

Pod 1
Boston College: Syracuse, North Carolina
Miami-FL: Florida State, Georgia Tech
Notre Dame: Louisville, Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh: West Virginia, NC State

Pod 2
Syracuse: Boston College, Duke
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami-FL
Virginia Tech: Virginia, Notre Dame
West Virginia: Pittsburgh, Wake Forest

Pod 3
North Carolina: Duke, Boston College
Clemson: Georgia Tech, Florida State
Virginia: Virginia Tech, Louisville
NC State: Wake Forest, Pittsburgh

Pod 4
Duke: North Carolina, Syracuse
Florida State: Miami-FL, Clemson
Louisville: Notre Dame, Virginia
Wake Forest: NC State, West Virginia

Notre Dame's OOC schedule:
1) USC
2) Navy
3) Shamrock Series
4) Other power conference team (e.g, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Stanford, etc.)

ND plays at Miami at the end of the regular season in years in which they don't play at USC.

(11-04-2018 08:38 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]Of the schools that the ACC could possibly land as #16, West Virginia is the best choice, even if the ACC doesn't think so. As I've done with other 16-school setups, I'd align the conference into 4 pods that rotate between two 8-team divisions (Atlantic/Coastal) in a 3-year cycle. The pods are all fairly well balanced in average football strength. The conference schedule is 8 games (7 in-division + 1 crossover). Each team has a protected crossover in another pod and an alternate crossover in yet another pod for years in which the protected crossovers share a division. Within a 6-year span, a team plays its pod mates and protected crossover 6 times, its alternate crossover 4 times, and all other teams twice.

ACC

School: Protected crossover, Alternate crossover

Pod 1
Boston College: Syracuse, North Carolina
Miami-FL: Florida State, Georgia Tech
Notre Dame: Louisville, Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh: West Virginia, NC State

Pod 2
Syracuse: Boston College, Duke
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami-FL
Virginia Tech: Virginia, Notre Dame
West Virginia: Pittsburgh, Wake Forest

Pod 3
North Carolina: Duke, Boston College
Clemson: Georgia Tech, Florida State
Virginia: Virginia Tech, Louisville
NC State: Wake Forest, Pittsburgh

Pod 4
Duke: North Carolina, Syracuse
Florida State: Miami-FL, Clemson
Louisville: Notre Dame, Virginia
Wake Forest: NC State, West Virginia

Notre Dame's OOC schedule:
1) USC
2) Navy
3) Shamrock Series
4) Other power conference team (e.g, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Stanford, etc.)

ND plays at Miami at the end of the regular season in years in which they don't play at USC.

Georgia Tech ain't going for playing WVU every year. Swap Louisville w/ GT.

(11-04-2018 02:07 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]Georgia Tech ain't going for playing WVU every year. Swap Louisville w/ GT.

Trouble with that is it breaks up the Clemson/GT annual series, so GT may have to suck it up. Would GT be equally unwilling to play Louisville annually? Because I could swap Louisville and West Virginia, although that would preclude an annual VT/WVU matchup.

The annual game you are missing is UNC/UVa


Try this:

BC - Syr/UVa
ND - Louis/VT
Pitt - WVa/Syr
Miami - FSU/Louis


NCSU - CU/WF
UNC - Duke/GT
UVa - WF/BC
VT - WVa/ND

Clemson - NCSU-FSU
GT - UNC/Duke
WF - NCSU/UVa
Duke - UNC/GT

FSU - Miami/CU
Louis - Miami/ND
West Va - Pitt/VT
Syracuse - BC/Pitt

(11-04-2018 05:27 PM)Statefan Wrote: [ -> ]The annual game you are missing is UNC/UVa

No, that's there. They're in the same pod. The one I know I'm missing is Pitt/Syracuse.

(11-04-2018 05:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:27 PM)Statefan Wrote: [ -> ]The annual game you are missing is UNC/UVa

No, that's there. They're in the same pod. The one I know I'm missing is Pitt/Syracuse.

You are also missing Duke vs. Georgia Tech (played every year since 1933).

(11-04-2018 05:41 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:27 PM)Statefan Wrote: [ -> ]The annual game you are missing is UNC/UVa

No, that's there. They're in the same pod. The one I know I'm missing is Pitt/Syracuse.

You are also missing Duke vs. Georgia Tech (played every year since 1933).

True, but is that actually a strong rivalry? Not that Pitt/Syracuse is, which is why I sacrificed it in favor of other rivalries.

(11-04-2018 05:47 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:41 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:27 PM)Statefan Wrote: [ -> ]The annual game you are missing is UNC/UVa

No, that's there. They're in the same pod. The one I know I'm missing is Pitt/Syracuse.

You are also missing Duke vs. Georgia Tech (played every year since 1933).

True, but is that actually a strong rivalry? Not that Pitt/Syracuse is, which is why I sacrificed it in favor of other rivalries.

Nerd, it does not matter. It matters to State and Carolina because it matters to Duke. Some things have to matter more than money.

BC - Syr/UVa
ND - Louis/VT
Pitt - WVa/Syr
Miami - FSU/Louis

NCSU - CU/WF
UNC - Duke/GT
UVa - WF/BC
VT - WVa/ND

Clemson - NCSU-FSU
GT - UNC/Duke
WF - NCSU/UVa
Duke - UNC/GT

FSU - Miami/CU
Louis - Miami/ND
West Va - Pitt/VT
Syracuse - BC/Pitt

This preserves all UNC's annual games, UVa's annual games, State's annual games and should make ND as happy as than can be if they are to be included. West Va should be as happy as a tick on a deer.

B1G, SEC, and CTZ XII schools would not be options. That leaves a choice between Connecticut, West Virginia, and Cincinnati. Connecticut would be option #3. West Virginia would, in my opinion, be the strongest option but I could see Cincinnati getting the nod. I also don't see pods emerging instead of divisions.

I don't see Notre Dame joining but if the ACC wanted, for whatever reason, to go to 16 then West Virginia and Cincinnati would be the two.

Atlantic: Notre Dame/Cincinnati, Miami, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College
Coastal: Virginia, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St

(11-04-2018 06:23 PM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]B1G, SEC, and CTZ XII schools would not be options. That leaves a choice between Connecticut, West Virginia, and Cincinnati. Connecticut would be option #3. West Virginia would, in my opinion, be the strongest option but I could see Cincinnati getting the nod. I also don't see pods emerging instead of divisions.

I don't see Notre Dame joining but if the ACC wanted, for whatever reason, to go to 16 then West Virginia and Cincinnati would be the two.

Atlantic: Notre Dame/Cincinnati, Miami, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College
Coastal: Virginia, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St

It will be interesting to see the kind of impact that content driven pay models will have upon the Irish. My hunch is that as long as they can keep 6 content games scheduled per year they won't need to join one at all. IMO, the market model was actually more of a threat to them, but one which they coped with by having Northeastern, Southern, and Pacific games on their schedule.

Champs only is the only change that could force them all in.

(11-04-2018 06:29 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 06:23 PM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]B1G, SEC, and CTZ XII schools would not be options. That leaves a choice between Connecticut, West Virginia, and Cincinnati. Connecticut would be option #3. West Virginia would, in my opinion, be the strongest option but I could see Cincinnati getting the nod. I also don't see pods emerging instead of divisions.

I don't see Notre Dame joining but if the ACC wanted, for whatever reason, to go to 16 then West Virginia and Cincinnati would be the two.

Atlantic: Notre Dame/Cincinnati, Miami, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College
Coastal: Virginia, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St

It will be interesting to see the kind of impact that content driven pay models will have upon the Irish. My hunch is that as long as they can keep 6 content games scheduled per year they won't need to join one at all. IMO, the market model was actually more of a threat to them, but one which they coped with by having Northeastern, Southern, and Pacific games on their schedule.

Champs only is the only change that could force them all in.

1) Pretty smart of them, and independence gave them the scheduling flexibility to do so.


2) Agreed, and Jack Swarbrick has said as much several times recently.

(11-04-2018 06:08 PM)Statefan Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:47 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:41 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:27 PM)Statefan Wrote: [ -> ]The annual game you are missing is UNC/UVa

No, that's there. They're in the same pod. The one I know I'm missing is Pitt/Syracuse.

You are also missing Duke vs. Georgia Tech (played every year since 1933).

True, but is that actually a strong rivalry? Not that Pitt/Syracuse is, which is why I sacrificed it in favor of other rivalries.

Nerd, it does not matter. It matters to State and Carolina because it matters to Duke. Some things have to matter more than money.

BC - Syr/UVa
ND - Louis/VT
Pitt - WVa/Syr
Miami - FSU/Louis

NCSU - CU/WF
UNC - Duke/GT
UVa - WF/BC
VT - WVa/ND

Clemson - NCSU-FSU
GT - UNC/Duke
WF - NCSU/UVa
Duke - UNC/GT

FSU - Miami/CU
Louis - Miami/ND
West Va - Pitt/VT
Syracuse - BC/Pitt

This preserves all UNC's annual games, UVa's annual games, State's annual games and should make ND as happy as than can be if they are to be included. West Va should be as happy as a tick on a deer.

How about this? It's very similar to your alignment, and there's a workable schedule for it.

School: Protected crossover, Alternate crossover

Pod 1
Boston College: Syracuse, Duke
Miami-FL: Florida State, Georgia Tech
Notre Dame: Louisville, Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh: West Virginia, Wake Forest

Pod 2
Syracuse: Boston College, North Carolina
Florida State: Miami-FL, Clemson
Louisville: Notre Dame, Virginia
West Virginia: Pittsburgh, NC State

Pod 3
North Carolina: Duke, Syracuse
Clemson: Georgia Tech, Florida State
Virginia: Virginia Tech, Louisville
NC State: Wake Forest, West Virginia

Pod 4
Duke: North Carolina, Boston College
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami-FL
Virginia Tech: Virginia, Notre Dame
Wake Forest: NC State, Pittsburgh

(11-04-2018 06:33 PM)TerryD Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 06:29 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 06:23 PM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]B1G, SEC, and CTZ XII schools would not be options. That leaves a choice between Connecticut, West Virginia, and Cincinnati. Connecticut would be option #3. West Virginia would, in my opinion, be the strongest option but I could see Cincinnati getting the nod. I also don't see pods emerging instead of divisions.

I don't see Notre Dame joining but if the ACC wanted, for whatever reason, to go to 16 then West Virginia and Cincinnati would be the two.

Atlantic: Notre Dame/Cincinnati, Miami, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College
Coastal: Virginia, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St

It will be interesting to see the kind of impact that content driven pay models will have upon the Irish. My hunch is that as long as they can keep 6 content games scheduled per year they won't need to join one at all. IMO, the market model was actually more of a threat to them, but one which they coped with by having Northeastern, Southern, and Pacific games on their schedule.

Champs only is the only change that could force them all in.

1) Pretty smart of them, and independence gave them the scheduling flexibility to do so.


2) Agreed, and Jack Swarbrick has said as much several times recently.

I seriously doubt a champs-only model would ever occur which would save Notre Dame's independence. The SEC had two teams in the championship game last year - they would likely not vote for champs-only. At one point this season prior to Purdue's upset over Ohio St, the B1G had a good chance to get two in with the Buckeyes and Wolverines. They likely would not vote for champs-only (even though they missed out last season.) The ACC hasn't missed a playoffs and Florida St will come back, so they could see an opportunity to get two in down the road. They could go either way on champs-only. The PAC and XII would vote yes to champs-only in a heartbeat. Should the XII implode then that would likely only leave the PAC as a "for sure" in champs-only.

An undefeated Notre Dame will always make the playoffs even if every conference has an undefeated champion because Notre Dame's schedule will likely be viewed as stronger than at least one conference - probably the PAC or XII. A 1-loss Notre Dame has a chance. Two or more losses eliminates the Irish - and should eliminate everyone else barring unusual circumstances.

Division 1
Boston College
Florida State
Louisville
Miami
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
West Virginia

Division 2
Clemson
Duke
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

Basketball Pods
A - Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
B - Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Wake Forest
C - Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Syracuse
D - Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia

(11-04-2018 07:15 PM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 06:33 PM)TerryD Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 06:29 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 06:23 PM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]B1G, SEC, and CTZ XII schools would not be options. That leaves a choice between Connecticut, West Virginia, and Cincinnati. Connecticut would be option #3. West Virginia would, in my opinion, be the strongest option but I could see Cincinnati getting the nod. I also don't see pods emerging instead of divisions.

I don't see Notre Dame joining but if the ACC wanted, for whatever reason, to go to 16 then West Virginia and Cincinnati would be the two.

Atlantic: Notre Dame/Cincinnati, Miami, Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College
Coastal: Virginia, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida St

It will be interesting to see the kind of impact that content driven pay models will have upon the Irish. My hunch is that as long as they can keep 6 content games scheduled per year they won't need to join one at all. IMO, the market model was actually more of a threat to them, but one which they coped with by having Northeastern, Southern, and Pacific games on their schedule.

Champs only is the only change that could force them all in.

1) Pretty smart of them, and independence gave them the scheduling flexibility to do so.


2) Agreed, and Jack Swarbrick has said as much several times recently.

I seriously doubt a champs-only model would ever occur which would save Notre Dame's independence. The SEC had two teams in the championship game last year - they would likely not vote for champs-only. At one point this season prior to Purdue's upset over Ohio St, the B1G had a good chance to get two in with the Buckeyes and Wolverines. They likely would not vote for champs-only (even though they missed out last season.) The ACC hasn't missed a playoffs and Florida St will come back, so they could see an opportunity to get two in down the road. They could go either way on champs-only. The PAC and XII would vote yes to champs-only in a heartbeat. Should the XII implode then that would likely only leave the PAC as a "for sure" in champs-only.

An undefeated Notre Dame will always make the playoffs even if every conference has an undefeated champion because Notre Dame's schedule will likely be viewed as stronger than at least one conference - probably the PAC or XII. A 1-loss Notre Dame has a chance. Two or more losses eliminates the Irish - and should eliminate everyone else barring unusual circumstances.

I don't think the SEC is that enamored with the second slot outside of the publicity allure of it. You do know that it is not that profitable to have a second team in the mix. The additional money is only an additional 6 million and not significantly larger than than say a top bowl would be (think 1 million to 2 million divided by the number of members of your conference). If guaranteed a slot every year and possibly with it greater revenue from another large bowl, things might go just as well with us and I suspect the other P5 conferences as well.

This process goes entirely through ND’s eyes because the ACC’s the beggar and ND’s the chooser.

To get Notre Dame to join? You offer Navy FB-only so ND keeps USC, Stanford, and 2 of their wish OOC and divide divisions so ND plays their 5 most frequent ACC opponents (Navy, Pitt, GT, Miami, BC) and 2 in high population states (FSU, Syracuse) annually. This allows the 7 VA/NC/SC schools to stick together.

Division I
Notre Dame
Navy
Pittsburgh
Georgia Tech
Miami
Boston College
Syracuse
Florida State

Division II
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Duke
Wake Forest
Clemson
Louisville

ND hits up big markets (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Miami, Boston) and states (NY, FL) while maintaining rivals.

Clemson definitely gets screwed in this scenario but is outvoted (or heads to the SEC opening the door for WVU in the UL+VA+NC division).

(11-04-2018 05:47 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:41 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:27 PM)Statefan Wrote: [ -> ]The annual game you are missing is UNC/UVa

No, that's there. They're in the same pod. The one I know I'm missing is Pitt/Syracuse.

You are also missing Duke vs. Georgia Tech (played every year since 1933).

True, but is that actually a strong rivalry? Not that Pitt/Syracuse is, which is why I sacrificed it in favor of other rivalries.

I never knew that Pitt and Syracuse had a rivalry.

(11-05-2018 05:17 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:47 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:41 PM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2018 05:27 PM)Statefan Wrote: [ -> ]The annual game you are missing is UNC/UVa

No, that's there. They're in the same pod. The one I know I'm missing is Pitt/Syracuse.

You are also missing Duke vs. Georgia Tech (played every year since 1933).

True, but is that actually a strong rivalry? Not that Pitt/Syracuse is, which is why I sacrificed it in favor of other rivalries.

I never knew that Pitt and Syracuse had a rivalry.

If you're going by the criterion that they've played every year for a long time, then they qualify (since 1955). However, like Duke/GT, it's not a very strong rivalry.