(11-06-2018 01:58 PM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 01:21 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote: [ -> ]brovol, this is in response to your last post. (trying to get rid of all the past posts)
I conclude we have more talent because we have a player that is a legitimate Hobey Baker Award candidate when healthy: Wade Allison. We had 3 players taken in the NHL Draft this year. Mattias Samuelsson is the 2nd highest player ever drafted from WMU. I believe Michael McCarron gets counted as the highest even though he never played a game for WMU. Murray has had 10 players drafted. And just from an eye test, the speed & skill you see up and down the roster is something I haven't seen in my 20 years of being a WMU hockey fan. I think college hockey in general is getting more talented.
I do agree I've been saying the same thing year after year. That's because we are still having this conference debate. BTW, I thought you vowed to stop talking about NCHC vs WCHA. What you really meant is you'd stop talking about it until they got off to a 3-5 start that supports your WCHA theory.
I am not engaging in the conference debate, even though YOU ARE (and have been baiting me to engage). Review the thread, and what Phil said, with my response. You dont like it if any point draws upon the conclusion that WMU is struggling, and your promise of great hockey riches hasn't manifested itself. Dont harvest bitterness towards me brother; but more importantly, dont accuse me of "having the conference debate", when I am not. I said there is no shame in losing to a very good team, and BG is a very good team. There are good teams in all of the conferences, and conference strength is relative from year to year. I did not advocate my prior arguments (which is a different issue entirely). Frankly it is becoming unnecessary, and certainly counterproductive, which I acknowledged. YOU are bringing the old "debate" up; not me. Am I no longer allowed to discuss teams from other conferences, even when we play them? Give me a break.
Our team is what it is, and the jury will still be out for a while as to how good we are this year. That has been my message on this thread, and if you care to actually read what I said, rather than prejudge based on your assumptions on what I am "really thinking" while I am typing, you will, hopefully, correct yourself.
You asked me a specific question about how I think these NCHC teams are more talented and I gave you a specific response with data. Funny how you didn’t even respond to any of that and just attempt to turn this into a food fight. Never mind. Let’s drop it. I know how these conversations go with you.
(11-05-2018 10:52 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2018 11:58 AM)BroncoPhilly Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2018 09:19 AM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2018 10:43 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2018 05:29 PM)Broncodan Wrote: [ -> ]We will be ok as the season goes on. Like mentioned above, we’ve played 3 really good teams, bugs, Michigan and Denver.
Now if we get swept by Omaha at home this week, then we have issues
After 6 seasons of the Andy Murray Program I was hoping WE would be one of those 'really good teams'. It seems we have plateau'd at 4/5 in the NCHC.
We should sweep Omaha at Lawson, that is the least we should expect. That is NOT setting the bar too high, on the contrary it's a low objective for a program that has had 6 years to mature.
BG should not be better than the Broncos this season, that alone signals something is wrong.
curious why you think we should be better than BG. BG is very good, and was expected to be. No surprises.
I would not take Omaha for granted either. No passes in this league. This is college hockey, not football. It very frequently goes unexpectedly.
We're 6 years into the Andy Murray program, how long are you going to give him until WE are one of the top teams in the country? Too many of you seem to take Hockey as a year by year thing, each recruiting class makes or breaks a program for a given season. I don't see it that way.
There is nothing special about BGSU's ice hockey program. Their facilities are no better than ours, their coaching staff is no better IMO. So why should it be 'expected' they would be good this year and not us?
I'm seeing a lot of acceptance in our Ice Hockey forum that others have complained about in the Football Forum. When Tim Lester made a comment to the effect, 'This is Ohio's year.....' a lot of folks got upset. But I see that same acceptance here.
Andy Murray has had 6 years to hire a staff to his liking, recruit players, develop his program. There isn't a reason in the world WE should not be one of those 'good teams'. In my view, if not this season then never.
When UND or SCSU go into a home ice weekend series with teams like Omaha they damn well expect to sweep them-and it's considered a mild upset when they don't. We should feel the same way.
Comparing Western hockey and Western football is apples and oranges. If we played in the MAC of college hockey, I'd expect us to win most games. But, we don't. We play in the SEC of college hockey.
Everybody who keeps spouting pro-CCHA or WCHA ideas seems to have some memory that we were the dominant team in the CCHA for multiple seasons. Can somebody fill me in on when this happened?
This program has so much more talent than it did in the past. If you watch the games, you'd clearly see that.
Yes, this season has been a little disappointing so far. Not playing Blacker is on Murray. I don't understand that one. Not having our Hobey Baker candidate for all of our games hurts. Hopefully, that changes. But, I'm starting to lose hope on Allison.
There is no reason to be so doom & gloom. We'll have easier games in the NCHC than two @ Denver. I promise.
You simply don't grasp the point I'm trying to make.
At this point in our program you should be saying 'Denver will have easier games in the NCHC than WMU'
We have a mindset of Settling in WMU Broncos Hockey that is decades old and difficult to confront. Until we get over that, we'll remain a mid/low-level NCHC team.
(11-06-2018 01:05 PM)Broncodan Wrote: [ -> ]We MUST sweep Omaha at home this weekend, no ifs ands or buts.
Following week we head to North Dakota, another tough building to win in.....
We should sweep Omaha in Lawson and take one up at UND.
What will probably happen is we split with Omaha, get swept up at UND and all the excuse-makes will say, 'Hey, Omaha and UND are good teams!'.
Settling.
(11-06-2018 03:53 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2018 10:52 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2018 11:58 AM)BroncoPhilly Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2018 09:19 AM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ] (11-04-2018 10:43 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote: [ -> ]After 6 seasons of the Andy Murray Program I was hoping WE would be one of those 'really good teams'. It seems we have plateau'd at 4/5 in the NCHC.
We should sweep Omaha at Lawson, that is the least we should expect. That is NOT setting the bar too high, on the contrary it's a low objective for a program that has had 6 years to mature.
BG should not be better than the Broncos this season, that alone signals something is wrong.
curious why you think we should be better than BG. BG is very good, and was expected to be. No surprises.
I would not take Omaha for granted either. No passes in this league. This is college hockey, not football. It very frequently goes unexpectedly.
We're 6 years into the Andy Murray program, how long are you going to give him until WE are one of the top teams in the country? Too many of you seem to take Hockey as a year by year thing, each recruiting class makes or breaks a program for a given season. I don't see it that way.
There is nothing special about BGSU's ice hockey program. Their facilities are no better than ours, their coaching staff is no better IMO. So why should it be 'expected' they would be good this year and not us?
I'm seeing a lot of acceptance in our Ice Hockey forum that others have complained about in the Football Forum. When Tim Lester made a comment to the effect, 'This is Ohio's year.....' a lot of folks got upset. But I see that same acceptance here.
Andy Murray has had 6 years to hire a staff to his liking, recruit players, develop his program. There isn't a reason in the world WE should not be one of those 'good teams'. In my view, if not this season then never.
When UND or SCSU go into a home ice weekend series with teams like Omaha they damn well expect to sweep them-and it's considered a mild upset when they don't. We should feel the same way.
Comparing Western hockey and Western football is apples and oranges. If we played in the MAC of college hockey, I'd expect us to win most games. But, we don't. We play in the SEC of college hockey.
Everybody who keeps spouting pro-CCHA or WCHA ideas seems to have some memory that we were the dominant team in the CCHA for multiple seasons. Can somebody fill me in on when this happened?
This program has so much more talent than it did in the past. If you watch the games, you'd clearly see that.
Yes, this season has been a little disappointing so far. Not playing Blacker is on Murray. I don't understand that one. Not having our Hobey Baker candidate for all of our games hurts. Hopefully, that changes. But, I'm starting to lose hope on Allison.
There is no reason to be so doom & gloom. We'll have easier games in the NCHC than two @ Denver. I promise.
You simply don't grasp the point I'm trying to make.
At this point in our program you should be saying 'Denver will have easier games in the NCHC than WMU'
We have a mindset of Settling in WMU Broncos Hockey that is decades old and difficult to confront. Until we get over that, we'll remain a mid/low-level NCHC team.
We swept Denver last year in KZoo before the team was ravaged by injuries & mono.
We took them to OT on Sat in Denver.
What makes you believe that Denver thinks we're a pushover?
You keep telling me mindset needs to change. I think you need to change your mindset. I really don't think any team in the NCHC thinks Andy Murray's squad is an easy out.
(11-06-2018 02:54 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 01:58 PM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 01:21 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote: [ -> ]brovol, this is in response to your last post. (trying to get rid of all the past posts)
I conclude we have more talent because we have a player that is a legitimate Hobey Baker Award candidate when healthy: Wade Allison. We had 3 players taken in the NHL Draft this year. Mattias Samuelsson is the 2nd highest player ever drafted from WMU. I believe Michael McCarron gets counted as the highest even though he never played a game for WMU. Murray has had 10 players drafted. And just from an eye test, the speed & skill you see up and down the roster is something I haven't seen in my 20 years of being a WMU hockey fan. I think college hockey in general is getting more talented.
I do agree I've been saying the same thing year after year. That's because we are still having this conference debate. BTW, I thought you vowed to stop talking about NCHC vs WCHA. What you really meant is you'd stop talking about it until they got off to a 3-5 start that supports your WCHA theory.
I am not engaging in the conference debate, even though YOU ARE (and have been baiting me to engage). Review the thread, and what Phil said, with my response. You dont like it if any point draws upon the conclusion that WMU is struggling, and your promise of great hockey riches hasn't manifested itself. Dont harvest bitterness towards me brother; but more importantly, dont accuse me of "having the conference debate", when I am not. I said there is no shame in losing to a very good team, and BG is a very good team. There are good teams in all of the conferences, and conference strength is relative from year to year. I did not advocate my prior arguments (which is a different issue entirely). Frankly it is becoming unnecessary, and certainly counterproductive, which I acknowledged. YOU are bringing the old "debate" up; not me. Am I no longer allowed to discuss teams from other conferences, even when we play them? Give me a break.
Our team is what it is, and the jury will still be out for a while as to how good we are this year. That has been my message on this thread, and if you care to actually read what I said, rather than prejudge based on your assumptions on what I am "really thinking" while I am typing, you will, hopefully, correct yourself.
You asked me a specific question about how I think these NCHC teams are more talented and I gave you a specific response with data. Funny how you didn’t even respond to any of that and just attempt to turn this into a food fight. Never mind. Let’s drop it. I know how these conversations go with you.
Dude, you called me out, suggesting that I started a new nchc vs WCHA debate, and I responded that you are flat out full of $hit, as that simply isn't true. It is true that I asked why you concluded we are more talented now, and you gave a response, but to suggest you provided "data" is laughable, and reflective of how silly you argue. You have tried to bait me into the argument, but it was you who brought it up.
And you are wise to "drop it".
Comparing college hockey and college football/basketball on the same level with regard to expectation year after year is ridiculous. There is so much more movement and volatility in hockey recruiting and continuity than other college sports.
First off you can have a freshman come in for one game and immediately be gone to a professional organization.
Not making excuses just stating that it’s hard and takes time when your upgrade pieces are freshman... takes time to gel.
Oh... and poor goaltending will sink any team.
To gel maybe but it's important to note that typically when freshmen come into college hockey they are a bit older (20ish) and have been playing at a high junior level for years. It isn't like football where they were just playing HS ball last year. I don't think the youth excuse carries as much weight.
(11-06-2018 06:49 PM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 02:54 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 01:58 PM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 01:21 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote: [ -> ]brovol, this is in response to your last post. (trying to get rid of all the past posts)
I conclude we have more talent because we have a player that is a legitimate Hobey Baker Award candidate when healthy: Wade Allison. We had 3 players taken in the NHL Draft this year. Mattias Samuelsson is the 2nd highest player ever drafted from WMU. I believe Michael McCarron gets counted as the highest even though he never played a game for WMU. Murray has had 10 players drafted. And just from an eye test, the speed & skill you see up and down the roster is something I haven't seen in my 20 years of being a WMU hockey fan. I think college hockey in general is getting more talented.
I do agree I've been saying the same thing year after year. That's because we are still having this conference debate. BTW, I thought you vowed to stop talking about NCHC vs WCHA. What you really meant is you'd stop talking about it until they got off to a 3-5 start that supports your WCHA theory.
I am not engaging in the conference debate, even though YOU ARE (and have been baiting me to engage). Review the thread, and what Phil said, with my response. You dont like it if any point draws upon the conclusion that WMU is struggling, and your promise of great hockey riches hasn't manifested itself. Dont harvest bitterness towards me brother; but more importantly, dont accuse me of "having the conference debate", when I am not. I said there is no shame in losing to a very good team, and BG is a very good team. There are good teams in all of the conferences, and conference strength is relative from year to year. I did not advocate my prior arguments (which is a different issue entirely). Frankly it is becoming unnecessary, and certainly counterproductive, which I acknowledged. YOU are bringing the old "debate" up; not me. Am I no longer allowed to discuss teams from other conferences, even when we play them? Give me a break.
Our team is what it is, and the jury will still be out for a while as to how good we are this year. That has been my message on this thread, and if you care to actually read what I said, rather than prejudge based on your assumptions on what I am "really thinking" while I am typing, you will, hopefully, correct yourself.
You asked me a specific question about how I think these NCHC teams are more talented and I gave you a specific response with data. Funny how you didn’t even respond to any of that and just attempt to turn this into a food fight. Never mind. Let’s drop it. I know how these conversations go with you.
Dude, you called me out, suggesting that I started a new nchc vs WCHA debate, and I responded that you are flat out full of $hit, as that simply isn't true. It is true that I asked why you concluded we are more talented now, and you gave a response, but to suggest you provided "data" is laughable, and reflective of how silly you argue. You have tried to bait me into the argument, but it was you who brought it up.
And you are wise to "drop it".
Actually been quite impressed with you Bravo . You are resisting to argue its good we know where most stand on this and each has there reasons . No right or wrong answers just different ones .
(11-07-2018 03:59 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]To gel maybe but it's important to note that typically when freshmen come into college hockey they are a bit older (20ish) and have been playing at a high junior level for years. It isn't like football where they were just playing HS ball last year. I don't think the youth excuse carries as much weight.
I speak more about being comfortable with your line mates... all of these guys are very talented hockey players but a bunch of great skaters don’t automatically make a great TEAM.
(11-07-2018 04:29 PM)Sup Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 06:49 PM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 02:54 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 01:58 PM)brovol Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2018 01:21 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote: [ -> ]brovol, this is in response to your last post. (trying to get rid of all the past posts)
I conclude we have more talent because we have a player that is a legitimate Hobey Baker Award candidate when healthy: Wade Allison. We had 3 players taken in the NHL Draft this year. Mattias Samuelsson is the 2nd highest player ever drafted from WMU. I believe Michael McCarron gets counted as the highest even though he never played a game for WMU. Murray has had 10 players drafted. And just from an eye test, the speed & skill you see up and down the roster is something I haven't seen in my 20 years of being a WMU hockey fan. I think college hockey in general is getting more talented.
I do agree I've been saying the same thing year after year. That's because we are still having this conference debate. BTW, I thought you vowed to stop talking about NCHC vs WCHA. What you really meant is you'd stop talking about it until they got off to a 3-5 start that supports your WCHA theory.
I am not engaging in the conference debate, even though YOU ARE (and have been baiting me to engage). Review the thread, and what Phil said, with my response. You dont like it if any point draws upon the conclusion that WMU is struggling, and your promise of great hockey riches hasn't manifested itself. Dont harvest bitterness towards me brother; but more importantly, dont accuse me of "having the conference debate", when I am not. I said there is no shame in losing to a very good team, and BG is a very good team. There are good teams in all of the conferences, and conference strength is relative from year to year. I did not advocate my prior arguments (which is a different issue entirely). Frankly it is becoming unnecessary, and certainly counterproductive, which I acknowledged. YOU are bringing the old "debate" up; not me. Am I no longer allowed to discuss teams from other conferences, even when we play them? Give me a break.
Our team is what it is, and the jury will still be out for a while as to how good we are this year. That has been my message on this thread, and if you care to actually read what I said, rather than prejudge based on your assumptions on what I am "really thinking" while I am typing, you will, hopefully, correct yourself.
You asked me a specific question about how I think these NCHC teams are more talented and I gave you a specific response with data. Funny how you didn’t even respond to any of that and just attempt to turn this into a food fight. Never mind. Let’s drop it. I know how these conversations go with you.
Dude, you called me out, suggesting that I started a new nchc vs WCHA debate, and I responded that you are flat out full of $hit, as that simply isn't true. It is true that I asked why you concluded we are more talented now, and you gave a response, but to suggest you provided "data" is laughable, and reflective of how silly you argue. You have tried to bait me into the argument, but it was you who brought it up.
And you are wise to "drop it".
Actually been quite impressed with you Bravo . You are resisting to argue its good we know where most stand on this and each has there reasons . No right or wrong answers just different ones .
Your kind words are appreciated.
Now let's win some games so everyone is in a good mood.
(11-07-2018 04:41 PM)flushtheherd Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2018 03:59 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]To gel maybe but it's important to note that typically when freshmen come into college hockey they are a bit older (20ish) and have been playing at a high junior level for years. It isn't like football where they were just playing HS ball last year. I don't think the youth excuse carries as much weight.
I speak more about being comfortable with your line mates... all of these guys are very talented hockey players but a bunch of great skaters don’t automatically make a great TEAM.
Right, I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I've seen others suggest playing freshmen in general is an issue and I don't believe that to be the case in college hockey. Your point stands though
(11-04-2018 03:04 PM)Broncos83 Wrote: [ -> ]I'll take the old CCHA any day. I realize most will disagree and rightfully so. Give me U-M, MSU, ND, LSSU, BG, etc. Just can't get pumped for the new teams even though the quality is better. Just a personal opinion.
Do you prefer horse and buggies? Do you like black and white televisions?
I reminisce about the CCHA as much as anyone but geez, get a grip.
(11-07-2018 03:59 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]To gel maybe but it's important to note that typically when freshmen come into college hockey they are a bit older (20ish) and have been playing at a high junior level for years. It isn't like football where they were just playing HS ball last year. I don't think the youth excuse carries as much weight.
Time to gel? These guys practice all summer long together. If they haven't gelled by now, when will they?
(11-08-2018 01:00 PM)DudeReally Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2018 03:59 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: [ -> ]To gel maybe but it's important to note that typically when freshmen come into college hockey they are a bit older (20ish) and have been playing at a high junior level for years. It isn't like football where they were just playing HS ball last year. I don't think the youth excuse carries as much weight.
Time to gel? These guys practice all summer long together. If they haven't gelled by now, when will they?
Practice and game speed are different... these games are much more critical to their growing together... as a Team.
I hate that we have almost a full month between games in December. Hard to keep in sync for that long without a few games.