Men and Women will be competing on Saturday morning in Boca Raton, Florida at the C-USA Cross Country Championships. The men will be running 8K (~5 miles) and the women a 5K (~3.1 miles).
Before going into my preview, here are some basics as to championship meets:
First of all, it is important to have 7 good runners, even though only 5 will "score" for the team. The scoring is the reverse of track and field, as the top runner overall receives 1 team point, second place gets 2 points for his/her team, and so forth. The team with the fewest total points among its top 5 runners is the champion.
Why is it important to have 7 good runners? It's because of one magic word: displacement. Let's say Team A's 6th runner finishes in 27th place -- he/she does not get any points, but if Team B's 5th runner finishes 28th, he/she gets 28 points and NOT 27. A team's 6th and 7th runners can DISPLACE (move back in the scoring standings) any of the top 5 runners from other schools. A team's 8th, 9th, etc. runners have no effect on any scoring.
But, for a school like Rice, it is difficult to have 7 good runners, and still have a competitive track and field team (especially for the men). Why? Primarily because cross country does NOT have separate scholarships from track and field. A school must use its track and field allotment on cross country runners. There are 21 events in outdoor track and field, but the men have just 12.6 scholarships (women have 18). If one devotes too much scholarship money into cross country, there won't be much of a track and field team. Some schools (like Portland or some of the east coast universities), place their resources into cross country, and make track and field an afterthought. The schools that can have both sports give out minimal scholarships to their distance runners, and have the families make up the difference. Obviously, there is a very small pool of good cross country runners, who have the grades, and whose families can cough up a big chunk of the $60,000 per year that it takes to go to Rice.
Rice chooses to be competitive in both cross country and track and field, and the best scenario occurs when the coaches find "diamonds in the rough" whom they can develop.
Anyway, the following posts will have the preview.
Rice men
The Rice men's team this year is one of the best in recent years.
The team is led by sophomore Hociel Landa, who finished 23rd at the Louisville Classic. He is Rice's best shot for a top 10 individual finish at the conference meet. Alex Topini is also a sophomore, and probably the most likely to be the Owls' second finisher. Junior Clay Musial has improved dramatically from last season, and could be a surprisingly high finisher for the team. Sophomore Matthew Murray is a 1500 meter specialist who is getting better and better as he gains experience. If he starts out very conservatively and waits for the final 2K to make a push, he could pass plenty of runners toward the finish. The 5th-7th runners likely will be among the following: Junior Connor Meaux, freshman Andrew Abikhaled, senior Brad Dohner, and junior Adolfo Carvalho.
Here is how I see things:
1. Charlotte
2. North Texas
3. Rice
4. Louisiana Tech
5. UTEP
If Rice runs as well as it did at Louisville, the Owls would have an outside chance of challenging Charlotte. But, they need 7 guys to run well.
Rice women
The Rice women's team is top-heavy with 3 very good runners, but is in search for consistent 4-7 competitors.
Sophomore Lourdes Vivas di Lorenzi from The Woodlands is someone who could be a major star for the Owls. I would be surprised if she were not able to compete for a top 5 finish at the conference meet. Freshman Ryann Helmers has been solid all season, and she should be able to finish very high, as well. The third of top Owl runners is junior Khayla Patel. She is not quite as good as the others, but she needs to have a great race in order for the Owls to compete for a top 3 spot in the standings.
Freshman Ashley Messineo has improved as the season has progressed, and I would think that she is likely to be the team's 4th finisher.
I have no idea about 5th through 7th. Redshirt freshman Mary Claire Neal and freshman Alyssa Balandran ran decent races at Santa Clara. Sophomore Ruby Watson, sophomore Maddie Forbes, and redshirt freshman Loren Goddard all competed for the team at Notre Dame earlier this fall.
Finish prediction:
1. Middle Tennessee
2. UTEP
3. Southern Miss
4. Rice
Will the new academic schloraship program help Rice obtain. Some top notch Cross Country athletes?g
(10-26-2018 05:55 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote: [ -> ]Men and Women will be competing on Saturday morning in Boca Raton, Florida at the C-USA Cross Country Championships. The men will be running 8K (~5 miles) and the women a 5K (~3.1 miles).
Before going into my preview, here are some basics as to championship meets:
First of all, it is important to have 7 good runners, even though only 5 will "score" for the team. The scoring is the reverse of track and field, as the top runner overall receives 1 team point, second place gets 2 points for his/her team, and so forth. The team with the fewest total points among its top 5 runners is the champion.
Why is it important to have 7 good runners? It's because of one magic word: displacement. Let's say Team A's 6th runner finishes in 27th place -- he/she does not get any points, but if Team B's 5th runner finishes 28th, he/she gets 28 points and NOT 27. A team's 6th and 7th runners can DISPLACE (move back in the scoring standings) any of the top 5 runners from other schools. A team's 8th, 9th, etc. runners have no effect on any scoring.
But, for a school like Rice, it is difficult to have 7 good runners, and still have a competitive track and field team (especially for the men). Why? Primarily because cross country does NOT have separate scholarships from track and field. A school must use its track and field allotment on cross country runners. There are 21 events in outdoor track and field, but the men have just 12.6 scholarships (women have 18). If one devotes too much scholarship money into cross country, there won't be much of a track and field team. Some schools (like Portland or some of the east coast universities), place their resources into cross country, and make track and field an afterthought. The schools that can have both sports give out minimal scholarships to their distance runners, and have the families make up the difference. Obviously, there is a very small pool of good cross country runners, who have the grades, and whose families can cough up a big chunk of the $60,000 per year that it takes to go to Rice.
Rice chooses to be competitive in both cross country and track and field, and the best scenario occurs when the coaches find "diamonds in the rough" whom they can develop.
Anyway, the following posts will have the preview.
FYI: The women's race is scheduled to start at 8:30 a.m. Eastern time. The men are set to start at 9:15.
Women finish 3rd (74 points), well behind all-Kenyan teams from UTEP (44) and MTSU (48) and well in front of their next challengers (Southern Miss - 91, Charlotte - 125).
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On the men's side, Rice had the smallest 1-5 (and 1-7 for that matter) split in the field (10-13-15-18-21; 23, 27), propelling them to 3rd place (77) behind UNT (44) and Charlotte (50). UTEP finished 4th (99) despite having 2 runners (Kenyans) in the top 5 and 3 of the top 11, as their 4 & 5 finishers were 32nd & 49th.
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What is it about singling out Kenyans? Aren't there other foreign-born athletes in the race?
(10-27-2018 10:32 AM)InterestedX Wrote: [ -> ]What is it about singling out Kenyans? Aren't there other foreign-born athletes in the race?
But perhaps not in the top 5.
There was a Polish woman and a Swiss woman in the top 10, and Rice's #1 runner was born in Argentina.
(10-27-2018 10:32 AM)InterestedX Wrote: [ -> ]What is it about singling out Kenyans? Aren't there other foreign-born athletes in the race?
Come on. Individual athletes, yes, and on Rice teams as well. Entire teams composed of athletes from one specific foreign country (with notorious birth certificate verification issues to boot), no.
Texas and Tennessee taxpayers should know that their taxes are essentially funding Olympic development squads for a foreign country.
(10-27-2018 11:08 AM)InterestedX Wrote: [ -> ]There was a Polish woman and a Swiss woman in the top 10, and Rice's #1 runner was born in Argentina.
I don't believe that post was about the women's race.
(10-27-2018 11:22 AM)illiniowl Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2018 10:32 AM)InterestedX Wrote: [ -> ]What is it about singling out Kenyans? Aren't there other foreign-born athletes in the race?
Come on. Individual athletes, yes, and on Rice teams as well. Entire teams composed of athletes from one specific foreign country (with notorious birth certificate verification issues to boot), no.
Texas and Tennessee taxpayers should know that their taxes are essentially funding Olympic development squads for a foreign country.
Texas taxpayers don't fund intercollegiate athletics scholarships. Student service fees do, for a large number of programs. In fact, I believe it is against Texas state code to use appropriated funds for athletic scholarships.
Why should Rice's women's tennis team not be criticized harshly for having only one American player?
I have no problem at all with universities recruiting student-athletes from anywhere they like. Kenyans, in my experience, are extremely dedicated students and are very appreciative of the opportunity to get a U.S. college degree.
(10-26-2018 08:30 PM)OldOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Will the new academic schloraship program help Rice obtain. Some top notch Cross Country athletes?g (10-26-2018 05:55 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote: [ -> ]Men and Women will be competing on Saturday morning in Boca Raton, Florida at the C-USA Cross Country Championships. The men will be running 8K (~5 miles) and the women a 5K (~3.1 miles).
Before going into my preview, here are some basics as to championship meets:
First of all, it is important to have 7 good runners, even though only 5 will "score" for the team. The scoring is the reverse of track and field, as the top runner overall receives 1 team point, second place gets 2 points for his/her team, and so forth. The team with the fewest total points among its top 5 runners is the champion.
Why is it important to have 7 good runners? It's because of one magic word: displacement. Let's say Team A's 6th runner finishes in 27th place -- he/she does not get any points, but if Team B's 5th runner finishes 28th, he/she gets 28 points and NOT 27. A team's 6th and 7th runners can DISPLACE (move back in the scoring standings) any of the top 5 runners from other schools. A team's 8th, 9th, etc. runners have no effect on any scoring.
But, for a school like Rice, it is difficult to have 7 good runners, and still have a competitive track and field team (especially for the men). Why? Primarily because cross country does NOT have separate scholarships from track and field. A school must use its track and field allotment on cross country runners. There are 21 events in outdoor track and field, but the men have just 12.6 scholarships (women have 18). If one devotes too much scholarship money into cross country, there won't be much of a track and field team. Some schools (like Portland or some of the east coast universities), place their resources into cross country, and make track and field an afterthought. The schools that can have both sports give out minimal scholarships to their distance runners, and have the families make up the difference. Obviously, there is a very small pool of good cross country runners, who have the grades, and whose families can cough up a big chunk of the $60,000 per year that it takes to go to Rice.
Rice chooses to be competitive in both cross country and track and field, and the best scenario occurs when the coaches find "diamonds in the rough" whom they can develop.
Anyway, the following posts will have the preview.
That was my immediate thought too. IDK why it
wouldn't help.
(10-27-2018 04:48 PM)InterestedX Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2018 11:22 AM)illiniowl Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2018 10:32 AM)InterestedX Wrote: [ -> ]What is it about singling out Kenyans? Aren't there other foreign-born athletes in the race?
Come on. Individual athletes, yes, and on Rice teams as well. Entire teams composed of athletes from one specific foreign country (with notorious birth certificate verification issues to boot), no.
Texas and Tennessee taxpayers should know that their taxes are essentially funding Olympic development squads for a foreign country.
Texas taxpayers don't fund intercollegiate athletics scholarships. Student service fees do, for a large number of programs. In fact, I believe it is against Texas state code to use appropriated funds for athletic scholarships.
Why should Rice's women's tennis team not be criticized harshly for having only one American player?
I have no problem at all with universities recruiting student-athletes from anywhere they like. Kenyans, in my experience, are extremely dedicated students and are very appreciative of the opportunity to get a U.S. college degree.
I would like to see you explain to an economist your theory that student fees at state schools are not taxes (especially since they are mandatory), and that state-school athletic programs -- especially at non-P5, non-flagship schools -- are not tax-supported, even indirectly.
I don't criticize Rice for having 1 American women's tennis player because, for one, that puts Rice ahead of most schools in the country. NCAA women's tennis has become just one gargantuan *free* training academy for European and South American countries, with countless teams 100% composed of foreign players.
I don't have a problem with foreign athletes in general, especially at private schools that generally maintain their academic standards when admitting them and that do so in the context of having a diverse, internationally-enhanced student body. I do think there's something ridiculous about state schools that are ultimately backed by public dollars basically becoming training academies for other countries.
Much like UCF claimed a national championship in football last year, I would have no problem with Rice claiming a conference championship in women's XC this year for being the top school that was not for all intents and purposes a professional training group from another country masquerading as a "college" team. I would have a little more respect for what UTEP and MTSU are doing if their athletes were at least willing to follow the Paul Chelimo/Hillary Bor route and stay here and join the US Army after their publicly financed college educations.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I think it's wonderful to give people from around the world an opportunity to share in the educational bounty we have on offer in this country.
Also, I seem to only ever hear complaints about Kenyans/Africans when this subject is broached. Never (for example) about Australians, Canadians, Brits and Kiwis, of whom there are legions in our programs.
This thread is dangerously close to being more appropriate for the Kent Rowald Memorial Quad (spin room).
(10-29-2018 11:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: [ -> ]This thread is dangerous close to being more appropriate for the Kent Rowald spin room.
Kent Rowald Memorial Quad.