CSNbbs

Ugh! Here we go again with fantasy conferences contrived out of someone's brain without fact (only fiction). Where is the supporting information for this "new" WAC?

Where is the information the WAC still qualifies for an autobid by rule with two transitional member when UMKC, Bakersfield and Chicago St are gone?

???

These posters will believe anything, so the NCAA rules will comply for the WAC? But this board seems filled with fantasy.

Presidents don’t allow their autobids to go belly up.

(08-12-2019 09:43 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: [ -> ]Ugh! Here we go again with fantasy conferences contrived out of someone's brain without fact (only fiction). Where is the supporting information for the new WAC?

Exactly. He's been saying predicting stuff for years and not one single thing he has said has come true.

(08-12-2019 10:52 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 09:43 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: [ -> ]Ugh! Here we go again with fantasy conferences contrived out of someone's brain without fact (only fiction). Where is the supporting information for the new WAC?

Exactly. He's been saying predicting stuff for years and not one single thing he has said has come true.

Been predicting the sh*t will hit the fan for several years, and it’s about to happen if nothing is done.

But the Presidents will avert it before with some moves between conferences. Like Dixie St, UVU and Seattle to a depleted Big Sky.

Not predicting disasters for any conference. All will keep their autobids.

But these posters predicting doing nothing will result in disaster.

One thing we fail to mention is if the main sport is men's basketball in the WAC, if I am a DII school I might think really hard about joining the WAC. Let me explain, say I am UC-Colorado Springs. In 18-19, they went 17-12 with a 12-1 record at home, they lost by 2 points in the first round of the RMAC conference. All in all, a pretty good season.
Their last 20 years are found here - https://gomountainlions.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=212

So do I want to give that up, with almost no hope on playing in the NCAA tournament due to the dominance of NMSU and growing schools such as GCU? CBU had success at DII, UVU as well. Would UC-CS, I do not know.

(08-12-2019 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 10:52 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 09:43 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: [ -> ]Ugh! Here we go again with fantasy conferences contrived out of someone's brain without fact (only fiction). Where is the supporting information for the new WAC?

Exactly. He's been saying predicting stuff for years and not one single thing he has said has come true.

Been predicting the sh*t will hit the fan for several years, and it’s about to happen if nothing is done.

But these posters predicting doing nothing will result in disaster.

So by predicting things on this site, we avert disaster? The WAC recently added 2 schools and we know they reached out to others and were turned down (metro state, for example). That's "doing nothing"? It's well documented that the WAC is trying their best to stay afloat. It's a perfectly sane and reasonable assumption that the NCAA is going to help out the WAC if they fall below the required membership while schools are transitioning to D1.

It is ridiculous and asinine to say things like "It’s been worked out for years what’s coming.." about 3 conferences shifting around members on an agreed upon plan. I really, really, really dislike your posts. Please go away. You add nothing to this site and end up just pissing people off.

(08-13-2019 09:03 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 10:52 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 09:43 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: [ -> ]Ugh! Here we go again with fantasy conferences contrived out of someone's brain without fact (only fiction). Where is the supporting information for the new WAC?

Exactly. He's been saying predicting stuff for years and not one single thing he has said has come true.

Been predicting the sh*t will hit the fan for several years, and it’s about to happen if nothing is done.

But these posters predicting doing nothing will result in disaster.

So by predicting things on this site, we avert disaster? The WAC recently added 2 schools and we know they reached out to others and were turned down (metro state, for example). That's "doing nothing"? It's well documented that the WAC is trying their best to stay afloat. It's a perfectly sane and reasonable assumption that the NCAA is going to help out the WAC if they fall below the required membership while schools are transitioning to D1.

It is ridiculous and asinine to say things like "It’s been worked out for years what’s coming.." about 3 conferences shifting around members on an agreed upon plan. I really, really, really dislike your posts. Please go away. You add nothing to this site and end up just pissing people off.

Dak's problem is he believes his way of adding teams to the WAC is the only way to keep the conference afloat.

(08-13-2019 09:03 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 10:52 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 09:43 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: [ -> ]Ugh! Here we go again with fantasy conferences contrived out of someone's brain without fact (only fiction). Where is the supporting information for the new WAC?

Exactly. He's been saying predicting stuff for years and not one single thing he has said has come true.

Been predicting the sh*t will hit the fan for several years, and it’s about to happen if nothing is done.

But these posters predicting doing nothing will result in disaster.

So by predicting things on this site, we avert disaster? The WAC recently added 2 schools and we know they reached out to others and were turned down (metro state, for example). That's "doing nothing"? It's well documented that the WAC is trying their best to stay afloat. It's a perfectly sane and reasonable assumption that the NCAA is going to help out the WAC if they fall below the required membership while schools are transitioning to D1.

It is ridiculous and asinine to say things like "It’s been worked out for years what’s coming.." about 3 conferences shifting around members on an agreed upon plan. I really, really, really dislike your posts. Please go away. You add nothing to this site and end up just pissing people off.

The posters with an actual interest in WAC schools and athletics are VASTLY different than the realignment honks who spill over to this board any time any school or any conference anywhere makes a change. My guess is everyone else who posts on the ACTUAL CSNBBS College Sports and Conference Realignment area have run these crack pot conspiracy theorists off of their board, so they come and lurk here.

I am in 100% agreement that they add nothing of value for the majority of us who have an actual rooting interest in the WAC. Why these guys haven't been banned or redirected to take their wild ideas about realignment back to the Conference Realignment board is beyond me.

(08-13-2019 11:22 AM)gleadley Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2019 09:03 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 10:52 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 09:43 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote: [ -> ]Ugh! Here we go again with fantasy conferences contrived out of someone's brain without fact (only fiction). Where is the supporting information for the new WAC?

Exactly. He's been saying predicting stuff for years and not one single thing he has said has come true.

Been predicting the sh*t will hit the fan for several years, and it’s about to happen if nothing is done.

But these posters predicting doing nothing will result in disaster.

So by predicting things on this site, we avert disaster? The WAC recently added 2 schools and we know they reached out to others and were turned down (metro state, for example). That's "doing nothing"? It's well documented that the WAC is trying their best to stay afloat. It's a perfectly sane and reasonable assumption that the NCAA is going to help out the WAC if they fall below the required membership while schools are transitioning to D1.

It is ridiculous and asinine to say things like "It’s been worked out for years what’s coming.." about 3 conferences shifting around members on an agreed upon plan. I really, really, really dislike your posts. Please go away. You add nothing to this site and end up just pissing people off.

The posters with an actual interest in WAC schools and athletics are VASTLY different than the realignment honks who spill over to this board any time any school or any conference anywhere makes a change. My guess is everyone else who posts on the ACTUAL CSNBBS College Sports and Conference Realignment area have run these crack pot conspiracy theorists off of their board, so they come and lurk here.

I am in 100% agreement that they add nothing of value for the majority of us who have an actual rooting interest in the WAC. Why these guys haven't been banned or redirected to take their wild ideas about realignment back to the Conference Realignment board is beyond me.

This. I try to be respectful to everyone on this site. I try to listen to differing points of view. I try to root on all the different schools. But NoDak actually offends me. It's one thing to spew nonsense. It's another to be completely relentless about it and to speak like an authoritative source with nothing to back you. I found the Ignore User feature. I've never blocked a person before but just did it.

(08-12-2019 10:14 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]Where is the information the WAC still qualifies for an autobid by rule with two transitional member when UMKC, Bakersfield and Chicago St are gone?

???

These posters will believe anything, so the NCAA rules will comply for the WAC? But this board seems filled with fantasy.

Presidents don’t allow their autobids to go belly up.

You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2. On the subjects of D1 classification and grace periods, this is from the NCAA rule book:

20.9.7.3.1 Reclassifying Opponents. A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Division I opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must comply with Division I scheduling requirements (year two of reclassifying). A reclassifying institution may be counted as a Division I opponent in year one of the reclassification process if the reclassifying institution meets Division I scheduling requirements.

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members.

Worst case scenario, the WAC is going to have time. CBU and Dixie State will count for the conference membership. The grace period rule will keep Summit baseball going another two seasons after PFW leaves as long as they don't lose another baseball school.

(08-13-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 10:14 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]Where is the information the WAC still qualifies for an autobid by rule with two transitional member when UMKC, Bakersfield and Chicago St are gone?

???

These posters will believe anything, so the NCAA rules will comply for the WAC? But this board seems filled with fantasy.

Presidents don’t allow their autobids to go belly up.

You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2. On the subjects of D1 classification and grace periods, this is from the NCAA rule book:

20.9.7.3.1 Reclassifying Opponents. A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Division I opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must comply with Division I scheduling requirements (year two of reclassifying). A reclassifying institution may be counted as a Division I opponent in year one of the reclassification process if the reclassifying institution meets Division I scheduling requirements.

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members.

Worst case scenario, the WAC is going to have time. CBU and Dixie State will count for the conference membership. The grace period rule will keep Summit baseball going another two seasons after PFW leaves as long as they don't lose another baseball school.

Thank you for finding this. I read these rules and posted the rules once before years ago when the WAC was trying to maintain its' eligibility when GCU was added to the conference. I was just not going to find these rules (again) to argue against one person's conference fantasies. I knew CBU was going to be view as a D1 full member once they met D1 scheduling/participation requirements. And that was going to happen well before their NCAA tournament eligibility. So, if CBU didn't already meet NCAA D1 standards last season, they will this upcoming season. Dixie State "should" meet D1 standards by the start of the 2022 season; of course I am talking primarily basketball. So, "if" the WAC does not lose another member besides Cal State Bakersfield, UM Kansas City and "possibly" Chicago State, it should still be fine (maintaining its' automatic bid) once Dixie State participates as a member. That still doesn't put the WAC on stable ground but it gives the Commissioner time to find a 8th member (and more)… and we can't depend on a contrived unsubstantiated restructuring of the Big Sky and Summit to grow the WAC membership.

(08-13-2019 12:12 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2019 11:22 AM)gleadley Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2019 09:03 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 11:39 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 10:52 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. He's been saying predicting stuff for years and not one single thing he has said has come true.

Been predicting the sh*t will hit the fan for several years, and it’s about to happen if nothing is done.

But these posters predicting doing nothing will result in disaster.

So by predicting things on this site, we avert disaster? The WAC recently added 2 schools and we know they reached out to others and were turned down (metro state, for example). That's "doing nothing"? It's well documented that the WAC is trying their best to stay afloat. It's a perfectly sane and reasonable assumption that the NCAA is going to help out the WAC if they fall below the required membership while schools are transitioning to D1.

It is ridiculous and asinine to say things like "It’s been worked out for years what’s coming.." about 3 conferences shifting around members on an agreed upon plan. I really, really, really dislike your posts. Please go away. You add nothing to this site and end up just pissing people off.

The posters with an actual interest in WAC schools and athletics are VASTLY different than the realignment honks who spill over to this board any time any school or any conference anywhere makes a change. My guess is everyone else who posts on the ACTUAL CSNBBS College Sports and Conference Realignment area have run these crack pot conspiracy theorists off of their board, so they come and lurk here.

I am in 100% agreement that they add nothing of value for the majority of us who have an actual rooting interest in the WAC. Why these guys haven't been banned or redirected to take their wild ideas about realignment back to the Conference Realignment board is beyond me.

This. I try to be respectful to everyone on this site. I try to listen to differing points of view. I try to root on all the different schools. But NoDak actually offends me. It's one thing to spew nonsense. It's another to be completely relentless about it and to speak like an authoritative source with nothing to back you. I found the Ignore User feature. I've never blocked a person before but just did it.

Good call. I forgot about "Ignore User" functionality. That should help...

(08-13-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: [ -> ]You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2.

Any school coming to D2 would be required to have a conference invite before submitting their membership application. http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/...180913.pdf

The D2 minimum provisional period is 3 years for schools coming from D3 and NAIA while 2 years is the minimum provisional period for schools coming from D1. I actually was not aware of that; Savannah State is the first D1-to-D2 move since I started following D2. http://www.ncaa.org/governance/becoming-...nstitution

(08-13-2019 02:20 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: [ -> ]You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2.

Any school coming to D2 would be required to have a conference invite before submitting their membership application. http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/...180913.pdf

The D2 minimum provisional period is 3 years for schools coming from D3 and NAIA while 2 years is the minimum provisional period for schools coming from D1. I actually was not aware of that; Savannah State is the first D1-to-D2 move since I started following D2. http://www.ncaa.org/governance/becoming-...nstitution

So, "if" Chicago State were to drop down to D2, they would first need to find an acceptable D2 conference then start the 2 year process to drop down a division. That means at the earliest ("if" Chicago State announced they were leaving tomorrow), the WAC would not lose Chicago State until the 2021; the start of Dixie State's second season in the WAC still leaving the conference with seven members.

Maybe in three to four years, the D2 landscape will improve for the WAC to add another member to two. I would like the WAC to add existing D1 program to the conference. But I can't see any logical reason why a D1 program would leave their present conference situation for an unstable WAC. Commissioner Hurd was fortunate to get UM Kansas City to leave the Summit for the WAC when the UMKC Administration thought the Summit was on the verge of collapse. It might have if not for the addition of Denver and the return of Oral Roberts. Although, I'm sure the Summit would have scraped up some D2 schools to rebuild its ranks much like the WAC has done.

(08-13-2019 02:20 PM)AZcats Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: [ -> ]You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2.

Any school coming to D2 would be required to have a conference invite before submitting their membership application. http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/...180913.pdf

The D2 minimum provisional period is 3 years for schools coming from D3 and NAIA while 2 years is the minimum provisional period for schools coming from D1. I actually was not aware of that; Savannah State is the first D1-to-D2 move since I started following D2. http://www.ncaa.org/governance/becoming-...nstitution

New Orleans and Centenary moved down from DI in the last decade to 15 years ago. Centenary went DIII as did New Orleans (it tried the Gulf South DII conference first) after Katrina, but later UNO decided to stay DI. They can be an independent at any level, or least at that time. The NCAA bent the rules for UNO.

Chicago St was evicted from the Summit (they withdrew under threats) and it has a much worse situation now. Proceeding with evicting Chicago State is probably necessary to get new DI active members. Chicago St was a DI independent for several years and then got an offer from the defunct Great West, and they were much wealthier then due to enrollments.

(08-13-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2019 10:14 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]Where is the information the WAC still qualifies for an autobid by rule with two transitional member when UMKC, Bakersfield and Chicago St are gone?

???

These posters will believe anything, so the NCAA rules will comply for the WAC? But this board seems filled with fantasy.

Presidents don’t allow their autobids to go belly up.

You are assuming Chicago State is gone. There is no evidence that they are leaving. Even if Chicago State were to drop to D2, they would need to submit an application and get approval from the NCAA. Then there is a two year transition to D2. On the subjects of D1 classification and grace periods, this is from the NCAA rule book:

20.9.7.3.1 Reclassifying Opponents. A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Division I opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must comply with Division I scheduling requirements (year two of reclassifying). A reclassifying institution may be counted as a Division I opponent in year one of the reclassification process if the reclassifying institution meets Division I scheduling requirements.

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members.

Worst case scenario, the WAC is going to have time. CBU and Dixie State will count for the conference membership. The grace period rule will keep Summit baseball going another two seasons after PFW leaves as long as they don't lose another baseball school.

Your rules have nothing to do with an active DI institution that conferences need for the NCAA.

A reclassified institution that now counts as a DI school for other DI schools schedules is not yet an active DI school that the WAC needs. Only a school that is active for an NCAA tournament bid is: the NCAA declares an active institution like it did for GCU when their transition is officially over.

(08-13-2019 08:39 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote: [ -> ]If I am a DII school I might think really hard about joining the WAC... Say I am UC-Colorado Springs... Their last 20 years are found here - https://gomountainlions.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=212

So do I want to give that up, with almost no hope on playing in the NCAA tournament? Would UC-CS, I do not know.

I've been a UC-CS cheerleader because I think that they are a school with higher aspirations institutionally than a typical D2. I don't think the university president or board care about the NCAA tournament like fans do. I do think they care about rubbing shoulders with other D1 schools and having some of that "steet cred" rub off on their institution. D2 schools will pay the money to move up athletically if it will move the needle on their institution in a significant way re: perception, enrollment, donations, etc.

(08-13-2019 06:22 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2019 08:39 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote: [ -> ]If I am a DII school I might think really hard about joining the WAC... Say I am UC-Colorado Springs... Their last 20 years are found here - https://gomountainlions.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=212

So do I want to give that up, with almost no hope on playing in the NCAA tournament? Would UC-CS, I do not know.

I've been a UC-CS cheerleader because I think that they are a school with higher aspirations institutionally than a typical D2. I don't think the university president or board care about the NCAA tournament like fans do. I do think they care about rubbing shoulders with other D1 schools and having some of that "steet cred" rub off on their institution. D2 schools will pay the money to move up athletically if it will move the needle on their institution in a significant way re: perception, enrollment, donations, etc.

UC-CS hasn’t built a new revenue producing basketball facility yet as their on campus one is small. They could play in the Broadmoor Arena near downtown, but haven’t done that yet. Colorado College is moving most of its hockey games to a new smaller arena on campus, so it will free up some time. Have a sibling in the Springs, and when I asked if they could go DI, no was the answer as the population is too pro sport orientated and UC-CS doesn’t have that much following. The campus doesn’t have much level ground, so building large arena structures would be difficult.

Augustana is not bribing the Summit schools to go into the WAC. The business interests in Sioux Falls support the conference tournament and want Augustana as a participant.

https://letsgodu.com/2019/08/13/cozy-sum...augustana/

Is this the Fairytale Thread? Where do some people get their information? Has any conference ever lost their NCAA D1 status due to lack of members? The NCAA has issued waivers for conference's automatic bids in other sports- that lacked the minimum number of schools. So, if the WAC ever fell below the required number, I'm sure the NCAA would give the WAC waivers, until they get enough members.

I could even see the NCAA reducing the number of years to make the NCAA tourney for D2 schools moving to D1, if that would encourage more D2 schools to make the move up.

The WAC is unstable because each member would bail out, if they were invited to a more regional conference. I can imagine each current WAC school trying to persuade D2 schools moving up, and the D2 school asks how can my school be assured that all current WAC members will stay in the conference by time I'm NCAA tourney eligible? I'm not blaming any school for watching out for themselves. All's fair in conference realignment!