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During the UCF/Pitt game today, the UCF QB threw a 3-yard lateral across the field that the WR missed and the ball was live. A ref threw a flag for RTP on Pitt. Never seen that before -- I thought there were no RTP on lateral/fumbles. Is this a new rule change (Pitt didn't protest)?
(09-29-2018 06:45 PM)kurtrundell Wrote: [ -> ]During the UCF/Pitt game today, the UCF QB threw a 3-yard lateral across the field that the WR missed and the ball was live. A ref threw a flag for RTP on Pitt. Never seen that before -- I thought there were no RTP on lateral/fumbles. Is this a new rule change (Pitt didn't protest)?

If the QB doesn't have the ball, don't hit him lol. Pretty much the way it goes.
(09-29-2018 06:45 PM)kurtrundell Wrote: [ -> ]During the UCF/Pitt game today, the UCF QB threw a 3-yard lateral across the field that the WR missed and the ball was live. A ref threw a flag for RTP on Pitt. Never seen that before -- I thought there were no RTP on lateral/fumbles. Is this a new rule change (Pitt didn't protest)?

Any rule that will pussify the sport is one that will be embraced. And no there shouldn't be a penalty since the QB is technically a runner and never passed the ball.
(09-29-2018 07:32 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2018 06:45 PM)kurtrundell Wrote: [ -> ]During the UCF/Pitt game today, the UCF QB threw a 3-yard lateral across the field that the WR missed and the ball was live. A ref threw a flag for RTP on Pitt. Never seen that before -- I thought there were no RTP on lateral/fumbles. Is this a new rule change (Pitt didn't protest)?

If the QB doesn't have the ball, don't hit him lol. Pretty much the way it goes.

That's why it's weird. The QB wasn't technically the passer on the play because there was no pass. It's not like he was clocked either, just kind of a push after he was forced to rush the "throw." Never seen a RTP penality on a non-throw. The refs were horrible all day long for both teams.
(09-30-2018 10:48 AM)kurtrundell Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2018 07:32 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2018 06:45 PM)kurtrundell Wrote: [ -> ]During the UCF/Pitt game today, the UCF QB threw a 3-yard lateral across the field that the WR missed and the ball was live. A ref threw a flag for RTP on Pitt. Never seen that before -- I thought there were no RTP on lateral/fumbles. Is this a new rule change (Pitt didn't protest)?

If the QB doesn't have the ball, don't hit him lol. Pretty much the way it goes.

That's why it's weird. The QB wasn't technically the passer on the play because there was no pass. It's not like he was clocked either, just kind of a push after he was forced to rush the "throw." Never seen a RTP penality on a non-throw. The refs were horrible all day long for both teams.

I guess they figure he's still the quarterback even though he didn't complete a forward pass. They could always institute a roughing the lateraler penalty but that's a mouthful.
(09-30-2018 10:54 AM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-30-2018 10:48 AM)kurtrundell Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2018 07:32 PM)AubTiger16 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2018 06:45 PM)kurtrundell Wrote: [ -> ]During the UCF/Pitt game today, the UCF QB threw a 3-yard lateral across the field that the WR missed and the ball was live. A ref threw a flag for RTP on Pitt. Never seen that before -- I thought there were no RTP on lateral/fumbles. Is this a new rule change (Pitt didn't protest)?

If the QB doesn't have the ball, don't hit him lol. Pretty much the way it goes.

That's why it's weird. The QB wasn't technically the passer on the play because there was no pass. It's not like he was clocked either, just kind of a push after he was forced to rush the "throw." Never seen a RTP penality on a non-throw. The refs were horrible all day long for both teams.

I guess they figure he's still the quarterback even though he didn't complete a forward pass. They could always institute a roughing the lateraler penalty but that's a mouthful.

What about situation where player runs 5 yards downfield, decides to throw forward pass and gets clocked. They would have to call RTP too.
Roughing the "passer" makes zero sense when no pass is being attempted, but let's face it, any hard knock on a QB is going to draw scrutiny, and possibly a flag.

Doesn't make sense in this situation but nobody can be surprised. Once the QB doesn't have the ball, don't touch him.
Once a QB throws a lateral, whether it is "completed" or not, he becomes a potential pass receiver. There is (or should be) no reason why he can't be blocked (even pancaked) behind the line of scrimmage just like any other eligible receiver as long as the action would be a legal block.

It may just be that the official made a mistake that nobody thought to correct.
FWIW, in the Penn State/Ohio State game, there was a play toward the end of the game where McSorley was across the line of scrimmage when he threw a pass and the receiver pushed off to catch the ball. There were 2 flags on the play - one for each infraction - and Ohio State wanted to take the 15 yard offensive pass interference, but (after much discussion) they pointed out that there can't be pass interference on an illegal pass. Seems to me the same rule should apply to a backward pass. Not sure Narduzzi was savvy enough to argue for that.

USFFan
Here's the official NCAA rulebook:

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productd...pdated.pdf

First, definition of a passer:

Quote:Passer
ARTICLE 5. The passer is the player who throws a forward pass. He is a
passer from the time he releases the ball until the pass is complete, incomplete
or intercepted, or until he moves to participate in the play

So you can only be a passer if you are throwing a forward pass.

Second, definition of roughing the passer:

Quote:Roughing the Passer
ARTICLE 9. a. No defensive player shall charge into a passer or throw him
to the ground when it is obvious the ball has been thrown. (Exception: A
defensive player who is blocked by a Team A player[s] with a force so that he
has no opportunity to avoid contact with the passer. However, this does not
relieve the defensive player of responsibility for personal fouls as described in
elsewhere in this section.) (A.R. 2-30-4-I and II; A.R. 9-1-9-I; and A.R.10-
2-2-XIII).
b. When an offensive player is in a passing posture with one or both feet on
the ground, no defensive player rushing unabated shall hit him forcibly
at the knee area or below. The defensive player also may not initiate a
roll or lunge and forcibly hit this opponent in the knee area or below.
[Exceptions. (1) It is not a foul if the offensive player is a runner not in
a passing posture, either inside or outside the tackle box. (2) It is not a
foul if the defender grabs or wraps this opponent in an attempt to make
a conventional tackle without making forcible contact with the head or
shoulder. (3) It is not a foul if the defender is not rushing unabated or is
blocked or fouled into this opponent.]
For paragraphs a and b, the penalty is added to the end of the last run
when it ends beyond the neutral zone and there is no change of team
possession during the down. (A. R. 9-1-9-II-III)

Based on the definition of the passer only being a player who throws a forward pass, then the only way this seems like it could have been called would be b, since all that's required is that the player be in a passing posture. Was it a hit at the knees?

USFFan
(10-01-2018 01:09 PM)usffan Wrote: [ -> ]Here's the official NCAA rulebook:

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productd...pdated.pdf

First, definition of a passer:

Quote:Passer
ARTICLE 5. The passer is the player who throws a forward pass. He is a
passer from the time he releases the ball until the pass is complete, incomplete
or intercepted, or until he moves to participate in the play

So you can only be a passer if you are throwing a forward pass.

Second, definition of roughing the passer:

Quote:Roughing the Passer
ARTICLE 9. a. No defensive player shall charge into a passer or throw him
to the ground when it is obvious the ball has been thrown. (Exception: A
defensive player who is blocked by a Team A player[s] with a force so that he
has no opportunity to avoid contact with the passer. However, this does not
relieve the defensive player of responsibility for personal fouls as described in
elsewhere in this section.) (A.R. 2-30-4-I and II; A.R. 9-1-9-I; and A.R.10-
2-2-XIII).
b. When an offensive player is in a passing posture with one or both feet on
the ground, no defensive player rushing unabated shall hit him forcibly
at the knee area or below. The defensive player also may not initiate a
roll or lunge and forcibly hit this opponent in the knee area or below.
[Exceptions. (1) It is not a foul if the offensive player is a runner not in
a passing posture, either inside or outside the tackle box. (2) It is not a
foul if the defender grabs or wraps this opponent in an attempt to make
a conventional tackle without making forcible contact with the head or
shoulder. (3) It is not a foul if the defender is not rushing unabated or is
blocked or fouled into this opponent.]
For paragraphs a and b, the penalty is added to the end of the last run
when it ends beyond the neutral zone and there is no change of team
possession during the down. (A. R. 9-1-9-II-III)

Based on the definition of the passer only being a player who throws a forward pass, then the only way this seems like it could have been called would be b, since all that's required is that the player be in a passing posture. Was it a hit at the knees?

USFFan

No, he was just pushed down after the throw from up high, the DE maybe took an extra step but it was a clear lateral. Looks like the the refs just blew the call, as they did many in that game or they just enforce any hit on the QB. It's around the 29:00 mark, 5:03 of the 1Q on the WatchESPN replay.
Officials often throw a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct for knocking down an opposing player who is nowhere near the ball carrier, i.e., any knock down that can't be justified as two players blocking each other in a live ball situation.

So the officials could have easily called unsportsmanlike conduct on that play, which gives you the same 15 yards and automatic first down as roughing the passer.
(10-01-2018 03:41 PM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]Officials often throw a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct for knocking down an opposing player who is nowhere near the ball carrier, i.e., any knock down that can't be justified as two players blocking each other in a live ball situation.

So the officials could have easily called unsportsmanlike conduct on that play, which gives you the same 15 yards and automatic first down as roughing the passer.

It was called roughing the passer, though.
(10-01-2018 06:53 PM)kurtrundell Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-01-2018 03:41 PM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]Officials often throw a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct for knocking down an opposing player who is nowhere near the ball carrier, i.e., any knock down that can't be justified as two players blocking each other in a live ball situation.

So the officials could have easily called unsportsmanlike conduct on that play, which gives you the same 15 yards and automatic first down as roughing the passer.

It was called roughing the passer, though.

Whether the officials called it unsportsmanlike conduct or roughing the passer had no effect on the outcome of the game.
Personally did not like either rtp call that game. I believe it was ACC refs, though.
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