Don't know if this belongs here or somewhere else but the question stands.
As I look at our team I think of ex- rice athlete Larry Brown. His son just graduated from Alief Taylor hs right here in houston. He was a 2yr starter for the team. Made numerous great catches and stretched the field for taylor the past two yrs. He won the open 6a 400m dash last year for the state of texas. Why wasn't he on our radar? Her is currently at TT running track. He was a student A student and a great person. This is just one of several houston area gourmet players that have athletic kids. Why don't they know about them? It makes sense that these kids would have more of a reason to shun a big school seeing how their parents went here. I really feel we're are missing a untapped resource here. These kids should be on our radar, of course provided they can actually play. Does anyone have any insight to this?
Add I watch college football every Saturday I continuously hear kids madness being called followed by "you know his dad went here also". How many ex- athletes sons have gone to rice or are on the team now?
I don't profess to have any inside knowledge about this issue, but it has been a very sore spot with me for the last few years. Somehow we fail to identify the children of Rice athletes who we absolutely should recruit. I think it's a real problem and I don't know the answer but I think I'll try to do some investigation
Anecdote =/= data.
Any specific examples of a qualified candidate that Rice snubbed because he/she was a legacy?
(09-18-2018 03:47 PM)nightowl24 Wrote: [ -> ]Don't know if this belongs here or somewhere else but the question stands.
As I look at our team I think of ex- rice athlete Larry Brown. His son just graduated from Alief Taylor hs right here in houston. He was a 2yr starter for the team. Made numerous great catches and stretched the field for taylor the past two yrs. He won the open 6a 400m dash last year for the state of texas. Why wasn't he on our radar? Her is currently at TT running track. He was a student A student and a great person. This is just one of several houston area gourmet players that have athletic kids. Why don't they know about them? It makes sense that these kids would have more of a reason to shun a big school seeing how their parents went here. I really feel we're are missing a untapped resource here. These kids should be on our radar, of course provided they can actually play. Does anyone have any insight to this?
Add I watch college football every Saturday I continuously hear kids madness being called followed by "you know his dad went here also". How many ex- athletes sons have gone to rice or are on the team now?
Some of these aren't all father/son relationships but just a few Rice Athletics legacies off top of my head:
-Clayton Malcomb
-Darik Dillard
-Collin and Connor Johnson
-Zach Wright
-Randall Royall
-James Hairston
-Brian Nordstrom
-Jackson Tyner
Ben and Ann Hollas are two others that we should have recruited (in baseball and volleyball, respectively). Ben played baseball at Oklahoma. Ann is the setter at SFA (who just beat Rice in volleyball last week). Their parents are Will and Liz, who were football and tennis stars at Rice.
Another Rice legacy family going elsewhere are Colby and Kaley Feris (children of Chris and Lacey Feris - baseball and women's basketball standouts at Rice). Colby is a freshman on the UH baseball team this year. Kaley is committed to play volleyball at HBU next year as a freshman.
There are these guys named Cruz I've heard mentioned. Baseball, I think
(09-18-2018 04:45 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]There are these guys named Cruz I've heard mentioned. Baseball, I think
Also Fox, Gray, Reckling and Benak (his granddad, Jerry Sims, Sandy's dad, played on the baseball team).
Having said that, Rice does not treat legacy candidates-- both athletes and non-athletes-- as favorably as do our peer group at Stanford, Duke and the Ivies. Never has. Not sure why.
How would this work?
I hope it's a given that a legacy of an athlete would have to meet the minimum admissions requirements.
Generally, the coaching staff of each sport has discretion in whom they offer. So, are we talking about a university policy that overrides that discretion and requires the athletic department to make offers to qualified legacies?
Then there's the problem of legacies choosing another offer over Rice. Any suggestions on how to address that?
(09-18-2018 05:02 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2018 04:45 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]There are these guys named Cruz I've heard mentioned. Baseball, I think
Also Fox, Gray, Reckling and Benak (his granddad, Jerry Sims, Sandy's dad, played on the baseball team).
Having said that, Rice does not treat legacy candidates-- both athletes and non-athletes-- as favorably as do our peer group at Stanford, Duke and the Ivies. Never has. Not sure why.
Really? I was a legacy. I'm sure it made a difference in getting accepted. The university also gave me the option of residency in the same college as my older brother.
How are legacy athletes treated more favorably?
Another anecdotal story, but lots of kids don't want to go to school where their parents did.
My parents went to a prestigious NESCAC school with similar admission standards to Rice (though I think I would've been accepted without a problem since they remained well-connected to the school post-graduation) and I had NO INTEREST in going there... And this school was ~3 hours from where I grew up.
I can't imagine growing up in West U, Sugar Land, Memorial, etc and going to Rice. Of course, lots of people do and have a great experience at Rice. Just not everyone's cup of tea.
So to be clear i'm not on favor of just offering up every legacy a spot in their chosen sport. What i'm saying is we had a kid here in houston that was a superb athlete. He addresses some of the issues we have currently. He's 6'1 maybe 6'2 he obviously is fast. He would have been an option this year. HE WASN'T EVEN RECRUITED BY RICE!! Last I spoke to him(I work at the school he graduated from) he was going to Ohio st, but changed to TT. My point is simply this... oi we recruit them and they don't come fine at least we're using our connections to get these top notch athletes. Currently with respect to football there isn't a lot of legacy players. I wonder why we aren't going for these guys? As stated in one instance we had one in our backyard and didn't even look at him. I've personally sent names of kids that were don't recruit and ultimately they go somewhere else, and these kids WANTED rice. Just seems like we have resources that aren't being used. Why? I don't know? I got friends coaching all over houston I can easily get athletes names from. In one year potentially 60+ DIFFERENT teams and can tell them who can play. I did coach and I did play...I know how to evaluate talent. Just seems that they're making it harder than it has to be. I know my friends from others schools help their schools out and its welcomed. Hell i'm not even asking for any perks, I just want my school to do well.
(09-18-2018 04:34 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: [ -> ]Some of these aren't all father/son relationships but just a few Rice Athletics legacies off top of my head:
-Clayton Malcomb
-Darik Dillard
-Collin and Connor Johnson
-Zach Wright
-Randall Royall
-James Hairston
-Brian Nordstrom
-Jackson Tyner
Connor Cashaw
(09-18-2018 11:59 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2018 04:34 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: [ -> ]Some of these aren't all father/son relationships but just a few Rice Athletics legacies off top of my head:
-Clayton Malcomb
-Darik Dillard
-Collin and Connor Johnson
-Zach Wright
-Randall Royall
-James Hairston
-Brian Nordstrom
-Jackson Tyner
Connor Cashaw
Yeah, that list was just football. Adding MBB, Grant Youngkin wanted to be a legacy at both his parents’ schools so bad that he just had to transfer to SMU.
JT Trauber of course too.
(09-18-2018 05:07 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2018 05:02 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2018 04:45 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]There are these guys named Cruz I've heard mentioned. Baseball, I think
Also Fox, Gray, Reckling and Benak (his granddad, Jerry Sims, Sandy's dad, played on the baseball team).
Having said that, Rice does not treat legacy candidates-- both athletes and non-athletes-- as favorably as do our peer group at Stanford, Duke and the Ivies. Never has. Not sure why.
Really? I was a legacy. I'm sure it made a difference in getting accepted. The university also gave me the option of residency in the same college as my older brother.
How are legacy athletes treated more favorably?
I have heard, albeit one source and not otherwise verified, from someone who used to be associated with Rice admissions, that 'legacy' considerations are overall extremely unimportant, almost to non-existence in the admissions process.
If this is incorrect, would love to hear otherwise.
And, I have three ex-roommates who have sons/daughters in college, excellent grades and outside activities, who applied and were not accepted. (i.e. as an example, one who was high school FB, drama, 4th in a class of 400, 4.1 GPA).
From these examples, it doesnt seem that Rice develops the generational ties that it could.
(09-19-2018 09:02 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2018 05:07 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2018 05:02 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2018 04:45 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]There are these guys named Cruz I've heard mentioned. Baseball, I think
Also Fox, Gray, Reckling and Benak (his granddad, Jerry Sims, Sandy's dad, played on the baseball team).
Having said that, Rice does not treat legacy candidates-- both athletes and non-athletes-- as favorably as do our peer group at Stanford, Duke and the Ivies. Never has. Not sure why.
Really? I was a legacy. I'm sure it made a difference in getting accepted. The university also gave me the option of residency in the same college as my older brother.
How are legacy athletes treated more favorably?
I have heard, albeit one source and not otherwise verified, from someone who used to be associated with Rice admissions, that 'legacy' considerations are overall extremely unimportant, almost to non-existence in the admissions process.
If this is incorrect, would love to hear otherwise.
And, I have three ex-roommates who have sons/daughters in college, excellent grades and outside activities, who applied and were not accepted. (i.e. as an example, one who was high school FB, drama, 4th in a class of 400, 4.1 GPA).
From these examples, it doesnt seem that Rice develops the generational ties that it could.
My firsthand experience is different, but that was many years ago. Entirely possible that things have changed. It's certainly true that the socioeconomics have changed. High school me has little in common with the student body at Rice today.
(09-19-2018 09:02 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]I have heard, albeit one source and not otherwise verified, from someone who used to be associated with Rice admissions, that 'legacy' considerations are overall extremely unimportant, almost to non-existence in the admissions process.
If this is incorrect, would love to hear otherwise.
And, I have three ex-roommates who have sons/daughters in college, excellent grades and outside activities, who applied and were not accepted. (i.e. as an example, one who was high school FB, drama, 4th in a class of 400, 4.1 GPA).
From these examples, it doesnt seem that Rice develops the generational ties that it could.
My understand is mostly opposite: that there
is a definite admissions preference given to legacy applicants -- but not enough to offset the very high proportion of legacies who apply.
As for admissions generally, my sense is that the number of essentially PERFECT applicants is more than Rice can admit, so being perfect just gets you into a lottery. From there, it is effectively random as to which perfect candidates are offered admissions and which perfect candidates are not. So it's not that the ones not offered were deliberately rejected; it's that their names happened to not be drawn from the hat full of outstanding applicants.
I know that's little consolation to the candidate not offered, but it really seems to come down to luck of the draw. By definition, luck is not logical -- but neither is it personal.
(09-19-2018 09:28 AM)georgewebb Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2018 09:02 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]I have heard, albeit one source and not otherwise verified, from someone who used to be associated with Rice admissions, that 'legacy' considerations are overall extremely unimportant, almost to non-existence in the admissions process.
If this is incorrect, would love to hear otherwise.
And, I have three ex-roommates who have sons/daughters in college, excellent grades and outside activities, who applied and were not accepted. (i.e. as an example, one who was high school FB, drama, 4th in a class of 400, 4.1 GPA).
From these examples, it doesnt seem that Rice develops the generational ties that it could.
My understand is mostly opposite: that there is a definite admissions preference given to legacy applicants -- but not enough to offset the very high proportion of legacies who apply.
As for admissions generally, my sense is that the number of essentially PERFECT applicants is more than Rice can admit, so being perfect just gets you into a lottery. From there, it is effectively random as to which perfect candidates are offered admissions and which perfect candidates are not. So it's not that the ones not offered were deliberately rejected; it's that their names happened to not be drawn from the hat full of outstanding applicants.
I know that's little consolation to the candidate not offered, but it really seems to come down to luck of the draw. By definition, luck is not logical -- but neither is it personal.
I think the perfect candidates whose parents are big donors are in. some candidates are more perfect than others.
I still don't see how a university preference for legacies would apply to athletes, or how it does at other universities.
I find it difficult to believe that at Stanford, for example, the university interferes in the recruiting process to the extent of directing coaches to make scholarship offers to legacies.
(09-19-2018 09:52 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't see how a university preference for legacies would apply to athletes, or how it does at other universities.
I find it difficult to believe that at Stanford, for example, the university interferes in the recruiting process to the extent of directing coaches to make scholarship offers to legacies.
Just saying that Rice pretty much utterly fails at promoting *any* generational ties to a fairly large extent. The easier one is in the admission process -- if they cant/wont emphasize that, trying the 'generational tie' at athletics is even more work.
Doing or emphasizing the 'legacy' thing in any way, shape, or form, just doesnt seem to be within the DNA sequence for Rice.
(09-19-2018 10:09 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2018 09:52 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't see how a university preference for legacies would apply to athletes, or how it does at other universities.
I find it difficult to believe that at Stanford, for example, the university interferes in the recruiting process to the extent of directing coaches to make scholarship offers to legacies.
Just saying that Rice pretty much utterly fails at promoting *any* generational ties to a fairly large extent. The easier one is in the admission process -- if they cant/wont emphasize that, trying the 'generational tie' at athletics is even more work.
Doing or emphasizing the 'legacy' thing in any way, shape, or form, just doesnt seem to be within the DNA sequence for Rice.
That is a questionable policy to follow when one of the things holding back the university in popular rankings (which seem to be a priority) is the percentage of alumni who give. Emphasizing legacies certainly appears to be a way to enhance giving.