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Full Version: Outside-the-box thinking to add a member or 2
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Jeff Hurd needs to approach schools that are in our footprint that don't have any type of sports program, and offer them a guaranteed spot if they start a D1 program from scratch.

A couple of schools that come to mind are: ASU-Lake Havasu City and SDSU-Imperial Valley. Financing would be simple. Every other sport besides basketball would need to be funded like a youth sports team: bake sales, raffle tickets, etc. Coaches would be paid like decent high school coaches. Men's basketball could be some type of deal where the WAC will match any money you raise for your program up to $1M. Because of the extremely low cost of the other programs, men's basketball could finance itself and all other programs.

In the case of both of these schools, I think the communities would support them as there are no professional or college teams in either area.

CSUB already signed up with the Big West. Chicago State and UMKC are going to leave eventually. UTRGV may leave if the Southland calls. I don't understand why Hurd has not done something more drastic like this.

ASU-Lake Havasu City
Cal Baptist
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State
SDSU-Imperial Valley
Seattle
Utah Valley
??
Why do that when you could just add D2 members and community colleges
(06-01-2018 03:45 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote: [ -> ]Jeff Hurd needs to approach schools that are in our footprint that don't have any type of sports program, and offer them a guaranteed spot if they start a D1 program from scratch.

A couple of schools that come to mind are: ASU-Lake Havasu City and SDSU-Imperial Valley. Financing would be simple. Every other sport besides basketball would need to be funded like a youth sports team: bake sales, raffle tickets, etc. Coaches would be paid like decent high school coaches. Men's basketball could be some type of deal where the WAC will match any money you raise for your program up to $1M. Because of the extremely low cost of the other programs, men's basketball could finance itself and all other programs.

In the case of both of these schools, I think the communities would support them as there are no professional or college teams in either area.

CSUB already signed up with the Big West. Chicago State and UMKC are going to leave eventually. UTRGV may leave if the Southland calls. I don't understand why Hurd has not done something more drastic like this.

ASU-Lake Havasu City
Cal Baptist
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State
SDSU-Imperial Valley
Seattle
Utah Valley
??

No offense, but I highly doubt that ASU-Lake Havasu would have the support for sports. The town is at it's population capacity during the winter time when all the snow birds are in town for their winter vacation. They aren't really going to care about the teams, let alone give their money to support the teams. The school would also have to build a bunch of athletic facilities to even try and compete with any of the WAC teams and I don't think that they have the land to do all of that given where their location is.
A DI move up needs to be a DII now for eight years. Don’t remember the exact # of years, but Utah Valley moving up from the JC ranks is not possible anymore. Houston Baptist moving up from NAIA is not possible either. Cal Baptist will spend the minimum #of years in DII to move to DI under the new rule.

It’s too late for Tarleton St, as the WAC didn’t invite them before June 1st.
(06-01-2018 09:38 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]A DI move up needs to be a DII now for eight years. Don’t remember the exact # of years, but Utah Valley moving up from the JC ranks is not possible anymore. Houston Baptist moving up from NAIA is not possible either. Cal Baptist will spend the minimum #of years in DII to move to DI under the new rule.

It’s too late for Tarleton St, as the WAC didn’t invite them before June 1st.

What if you aren’t moving up but are starting a sports program from scratch? Can you start out in Division 1?
"Financing would be simple. Every other sport besides basketball would need to be funded like a youth sports team: bake sales, raffle tickets, etc. Coaches would be paid like decent high school coaches."

I don't think this is realistic. Even making optimistic assumptions, like using high school or rec center facilities, and appointing the coaches as faculty so you sneak their salaries into the teaching budget, there's still a lot of plane tickets, hotel rooms, and meals to buy for a volleyball or soccer team. Like 300 person-trips/team at (really cheaping it here and assuming some kind of discount on the tickets and quadrupling up at the Motel 6) maybe $700/person/trip. $200K+ for one team is an awful lot of cupcakes and raffle tickets.

"UTRGV may leave if the Southland calls."

They're not going to call. We've been waiting on that call for most of my 24 year career at UTPA/UTRGV. And BTW, two months ago our admin said they were going to release the football report in one week. My best guess is that the "last step" was getting the Regents to approve the release, and they told Bailey to put it in the round file and gave him a direct supervisor-to-employee order to stop pushing football. Just a guess, of course.
(06-03-2018 08:27 AM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-01-2018 09:38 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]A DI move up needs to be a DII now for eight years. Don’t remember the exact # of years, but Utah Valley moving up from the JC ranks is not possible anymore. Houston Baptist moving up from NAIA is not possible either. Cal Baptist will spend the minimum #of years in DII to move to DI under the new rule.

It’s too late for Tarleton St, as the WAC didn’t invite them before June 1st.

What if you aren’t moving up but are starting a sports program from scratch? Can you start out in Division 1?
A school can’t start in DII either and maybe not in DIII. The NAIA is mostly the organization that accepts new schools with limited sports. Maybe a Christian organization (NCCAA ? ) or a JC organization or in some states there are associated state schools not under any national organization. DII requires a minimum # of sports and must be accepted by a DII conference that will sponsor them.

The NCAA rules are designed now for a very long startup time before a school can progress, even if they had a ton of money. It hasn’t always been this way.
(06-03-2018 07:35 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-03-2018 08:27 AM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-01-2018 09:38 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]A DI move up needs to be a DII now for eight years. Don’t remember the exact # of years, but Utah Valley moving up from the JC ranks is not possible anymore. Houston Baptist moving up from NAIA is not possible either. Cal Baptist will spend the minimum #of years in DII to move to DI under the new rule.

It’s too late for Tarleton St, as the WAC didn’t invite them before June 1st.

What if you aren’t moving up but are starting a sports program from scratch? Can you start out in Division 1?
A school can’t start in DII either and maybe not in DIII. The NAIA is mostly the organization that accepts new schools with limited sports. Maybe a Christian organization (NCCAA ? ) or a JC organization or in some states there are associated state schools not under any national organization. DII requires a minimum # of sports and must be accepted by a DII conference that will sponsor them.

The NCAA rules are designed now for a very long startup time before a school can progress, even if they had a ton of money. It hasn’t always been this way.

If the WAC agrees to admit ASU-Lake Havasu City as a member, could they go straight to D-1? Or do they have to go to D-2 first?
(06-04-2018 09:23 AM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-03-2018 07:35 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-03-2018 08:27 AM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-01-2018 09:38 PM)NoDak Wrote: [ -> ]A DI move up needs to be a DII now for eight years. Don’t remember the exact # of years, but Utah Valley moving up from the JC ranks is not possible anymore. Houston Baptist moving up from NAIA is not possible either. Cal Baptist will spend the minimum #of years in DII to move to DI under the new rule.

It’s too late for Tarleton St, as the WAC didn’t invite them before June 1st.

What if you aren’t moving up but are starting a sports program from scratch? Can you start out in Division 1?
A school can’t start in DII either and maybe not in DIII. The NAIA is mostly the organization that accepts new schools with limited sports. Maybe a Christian organization (NCCAA ? ) or a JC organization or in some states there are associated state schools not under any national organization. DII requires a minimum # of sports and must be accepted by a DII conference that will sponsor them.

The NCAA rules are designed now for a very long startup time before a school can progress, even if they had a ton of money. It hasn’t always been this way.

If the WAC agrees to admit ASU-Lake Havasu City as a member, could they go straight to D-1? Or do they have to go to D-2 first?


The school in Lake Havasu City is not ASU. It is a branch of Mohave Community College out of Kingman. As far as I know and read, they seemed not interested in starting any sports on any of their three campuses.

As for D2? They might make an exception for hard cases like University of Hawaii at West Oahu is the school President wants to start sports from scratch. There are no schools in the NAIA for them to join a conference. Only D1 and D2 have all the four year schools that could accept them. The school president said they would want to add football as well.

Now, if they want a two year school in Arizona? Why not go with a school like Arizona Western, Pima Community or Eastern Arizona? They are established sports, and would not take long to start up a few more.
Arizona doesn't fully fund or support the existing colleges. They aren't going to throw money starting another school. ASU has branch campuses (with thousands of students) in various parts of the Valley - none have sports, nor will they ever.

Same with NAU-Yuma - it fulfills the needs of the region for higher education in partnership with Arizona Western CC. They aren't going to throw millions to start a sports program there.

Only chance Arizona has for another DI team is decades away if any of the smaller private colleges do the NAIA>>DII>DI route, and that would be decades away.
(06-05-2018 02:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ]Arizona doesn't fully fund or support the existing colleges. They aren't going to throw money starting another school. ASU has branch campuses (with thousands of students) in various parts of the Valley - none have sports, nor will they ever.

Same with NAU-Yuma - it fulfills the needs of the region for higher education in partnership with Arizona Western CC. They aren't going to throw millions to start a sports program there.

Only chance Arizona has for another DI team is decades away if any of the smaller private colleges do the NAIA>>DII>DI route, and that would be decades away.

The problem is the three public 4 year universities in Arizona is kinda overcrowding and still growing. There have been talks in turning one of the JC into a 4 year year. Arizona Western in Yuma might be the only one that could do that since they would not crowd into the central part of the state. and Arizona Western would serve the fast growing Colorado River region for kids who want to stay close by to attend a university. Arizona Western have the best football teams in recent years who went to the championship games. Boise State was a JC who went to become a David beating the Goliath. The 4 schools left in JC football have no place else to go. The NAIA route might be for them if they go to four year. They have Arizona Christian and Ottawa to play against.
(06-05-2018 07:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-05-2018 02:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ]Arizona doesn't fully fund or support the existing colleges. They aren't going to throw money starting another school. ASU has branch campuses (with thousands of students) in various parts of the Valley - none have sports, nor will they ever.

Same with NAU-Yuma - it fulfills the needs of the region for higher education in partnership with Arizona Western CC. They aren't going to throw millions to start a sports program there.

Only chance Arizona has for another DI team is decades away if any of the smaller private colleges do the NAIA>>DII>DI route, and that would be decades away.

The problem is the three public 4 year universities in Arizona is kinda overcrowding and still growing. There have been talks in turning one of the JC into a 4 year year. Arizona Western in Yuma might be the only one that could do that since they would not crowd into the central part of the state. and Arizona Western would serve the fast growing Colorado River region for kids who want to stay close by to attend a university. Arizona Western have the best football teams in recent years who went to the championship games. Boise State was a JC who went to become a David beating the Goliath. The 4 schools left in JC football have no place else to go. The NAIA route might be for them if they go to four year. They have Arizona Christian and Ottawa to play against.

Oh boy, here we go again with this mess.
(06-05-2018 07:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-05-2018 02:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ]Arizona doesn't fully fund or support the existing colleges. They aren't going to throw money starting another school. ASU has branch campuses (with thousands of students) in various parts of the Valley - none have sports, nor will they ever.

Same with NAU-Yuma - it fulfills the needs of the region for higher education in partnership with Arizona Western CC. They aren't going to throw millions to start a sports program there.

Only chance Arizona has for another DI team is decades away if any of the smaller private colleges do the NAIA>>DII>DI route, and that would be decades away.

The problem is the three public 4 year universities in Arizona is kinda overcrowding and still growing. There have been talks in turning one of the JC into a 4 year year. Arizona Western in Yuma might be the only one that could do that since they would not crowd into the central part of the state. and Arizona Western would serve the fast growing Colorado River region for kids who want to stay close by to attend a university. Arizona Western have the best football teams in recent years who went to the championship games. Boise State was a JC who went to become a David beating the Goliath. The 4 schools left in JC football have no place else to go. The NAIA route might be for them if they go to four year. They have Arizona Christian and Ottawa to play against.

Yes Arizona is growing. In the Phoenix/Tucson center. Growth along the Colorado River doesn't warrant a 4-year school, and even if it did, our anti-education Government sure as hell is not going to pay for it.
https://mwwire.com/2019/07/25/is-contrac...-survival/

As food for thought, this is Twinkies-level stuff. It's probably wishful thinking that the WAC could benefit from something like this happening.

But Hawaii, while not having Alaska-level issues, does have financial issues.

The level of "why TF is San Jose State in our conference" among MWC fans is possibly the one constant in the west. It's not like the faculty haven't voted against their having a football program, for that matter.
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