(04-07-2018 09:48 PM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]the bigest promblem with your stabilty is 9 schools within 2 states, that not a good thing
I do agree bowl games could improve, send champ to Detriot when it's open
should have bought Poinstta & moved to Indy vs BYU, Army, AAC
It's a mid major conference not a power conference. So yes by power conference standards the configuration is too tight.
most conferences were historically a couple to a few states and all games were considered driveable. the latest rounds of mega conferencing have changed it, but it used to be like, for example, this
SEC North Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee and pulling in the flagships Kentucky
ACC Carolinas, Virginia, Maryland
SWC Texas, Arkansas
PAC 8/10[ West Coast States: Wash, Oregon, Cali, then adding Arizona
WAC which grew into Mountain West was a majority of Utah and Colorado w a school each from nearby Wyoming, New Mexico, West Texas/NM border of El Paso
The Missouri Valley has changed as much as any conference but almost always been teams from Illinois or a few hours drive east/west/south of there although Whichita St and Tulsa were a couple hours further
and the MAC mostly Ohio w the 3 Michigans and off and on or recent NIU - 2 hours west of Mich/4 hours west of Ohio, Marshall, over the Ohio river in W Va, Buffalo, a couple hours NW of Ohio along the great lakes
K you have been trying to get them to expand thier footprint for yrs
Pono, conf orginally had tight footrints, that's in the past
if you don't evolve in this world, you die off
(04-08-2018 07:19 AM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]K you have been trying to get them to expand thier footprint for yrs
Pono, conf orginally had tight footrints, that's in the past
if you don't evolve in this world, you die off
Actually, it’s the reverse that seems to be true. Non-power conferences that are in constant flux have greater trouble establishing themselves or having an identity.
What conference are you thinking of that didn’t change and died off? It’s conferences like CUSA and the Sun Belt that have lost their identity and are unrecognizable nationally because they are revolving doors. What is the benefit of their “evolution”?
(04-08-2018 07:38 AM)axeme Wrote: [ -> ] (04-08-2018 07:19 AM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]K you have been trying to get them to expand thier footprint for yrs
Pono, conf orginally had tight footrints, that's in the past
if you don't evolve in this world, you die off
Actually, it’s the reverse that seems to be true. Non-power conferences that are in constant flux have greater trouble establishing themselves or having an identity.
What conference are you thinking of that didn’t change and died off? It’s conferences like CUSA and the Sun Belt that have lost their identity and are unrecognizable nationally because they are revolving doors. What is the benefit of their “evolution”?
Agree.
Lest I be wrong the B1G hasn't lost a school since I have been on this earth.
Not sure the PAC conference has either. They've added teams to broaden their footprint into nearby states.
(04-08-2018 10:48 AM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ]Lest I be wrong the B1G hasn't lost a school since I have been on this earth.
The University of Chicago stopped fielding Big Ten teams in 1939. That was the last time, I think.
(04-08-2018 12:12 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ] (04-08-2018 10:48 AM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ]Lest I be wrong the B1G hasn't lost a school since I have been on this earth.
The University of Chicago stopped fielding Big Ten teams in 1939. That was the last time, I think.
Good info. I'm a baby boomer so U of C in the B1G predates me.
(04-08-2018 12:31 PM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ] (04-08-2018 12:12 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ] (04-08-2018 10:48 AM)emu steve Wrote: [ -> ]Lest I be wrong the B1G hasn't lost a school since I have been on this earth.
The University of Chicago stopped fielding Big Ten teams in 1939. That was the last time, I think.
Good info. I'm a baby boomer so U of C in the B1G predates me.
Michigan actually left in 1907. They returned in 1917.
http://mvictors.com/100th-anniversary-mi...onference/
(04-08-2018 07:19 AM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]K you have been trying to get them to expand thier footprint for yrs
All that talk was just to find away to get things going for TV.
With the MAC having a big TV deal now I don't see the point of it. I consider a $10 million a year deal for 10 years a big TV deal for a mid major conference. Its double the size of CUSA's and comparable to what the MWC is getting.
Everyone looks at the next conference up in TV. For the MWC the #7 conference its the AAC. For the MAC the #8 conference its the MWC. MWC is what 1 million per school on CBS sports plus bonus money for ESPN appearances? They have advantages over the MAC because they can be placed into later TV windows out West.
The AAC is outright P5 overflow. Many of those programs were in a power conference before. Many of them have P5 level FB or BB attendance/donor numbers.
What would help the MAC the most is if the G5 as a unit continued to put pressure on the CFP system resulting in more access. MAC also I'd like to see dump bowl games against the SBC which are no win situations for the conference.
P5 Bowl (ACC has expressed interest)
x2 Bowls vs. MWC
x2 Bowls vs. CUSA
Holiday (MAC #1 vs. MWC #1)-Champs go here if not CFP.
Boca Bowl (MAC #2 vs. CUSA #2)-Second selection/Best record.
P5 Bowl game (MAC #3 vs. P5)-Local to the MAC footprint.
Bahamas bowl (MAC #4 vs. CUSA)
Potato bowl (MAC #5 vs. MWC)
I think the MAC should leverage its Potato relationship with the MWC for the Holiday Bowl which should be dropping from P5 status as the stadium is torn down. Then in Boca send the best non-champion (could be a 10 or 11 win team) to play CUSA's best non-champion. This way the MAC's #1/#2 have a quality bowl game.
I don't see how changing/expanding the footprint helps. It requires a plan on the post season.
(04-08-2018 02:59 PM)Kittonhead Wrote: [ -> ] (04-08-2018 07:19 AM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]K you have been trying to get them to expand thier footprint for yrs
All that talk was just to find away to get things going for TV.
With the MAC having a big TV deal now I don't see the point of it. I consider a $10 million a year deal for 10 years a big TV deal for a mid major conference. Its double the size of CUSA's and comparable to what the MWC is getting.
Everyone looks at the next conference up in TV. For the MWC the #7 conference its the AAC. For the MAC the #8 conference its the MWC. MWC is what 1 million per school on CBS sports plus bonus money for ESPN appearances? They have advantages over the MAC because they can be placed into later TV windows out West.
The AAC is outright P5 overflow. Many of those programs were in a power conference before. Many of them have P5 level FB or BB attendance/donor numbers.
What would help the MAC the most is if the G5 as a unit continued to put pressure on the CFP system resulting in more access. MAC also I'd like to see dump bowl games against the SBC which are no win situations for the conference.
P5 Bowl (ACC has expressed interest)
x2 Bowls vs. MWC
x2 Bowls vs. CUSA
Holiday (MAC #1 vs. MWC #1)-Champs go here if not CFP.
Boca Bowl (MAC #2 vs. CUSA #2)-Second selection/Best record.
P5 Bowl game (MAC #3 vs. P5)-Local to the MAC footprint.
Bahamas bowl (MAC #4 vs. CUSA)
Potato bowl (MAC #5 vs. MWC)
I think the MAC should leverage its Potato relationship with the MWC for the Holiday Bowl which should be dropping from P5 status as the stadium is torn down. Then in Boca send the best non-champion (could be a 10 or 11 win team) to play CUSA's best non-champion. This way the MAC's #1/#2 have a quality bowl game.
I don't see how changing/expanding the footprint helps. It requires a plan on the post season.
Mountain West has a great bowl game with MWC #1 vs PAC12 # 5/6 in Las Vegas every year. They are not dropping that to play MAC #1.
Big East FB died, they were seperate enity, staying at 8 was stupid
Big West FB died, I tought they could have made some moves when the Wac split.
C-USA & SB flux came from being poached, SB had no choise but 1AA
C-USA did poor job rebuilding
(04-08-2018 09:51 PM)DICK Wrote: [ -> ] (04-08-2018 02:59 PM)Kittonhead Wrote: [ -> ] (04-08-2018 07:19 AM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]K you have been trying to get them to expand thier footprint for yrs
All that talk was just to find away to get things going for TV.
With the MAC having a big TV deal now I don't see the point of it. I consider a $10 million a year deal for 10 years a big TV deal for a mid major conference. Its double the size of CUSA's and comparable to what the MWC is getting.
Everyone looks at the next conference up in TV. For the MWC the #7 conference its the AAC. For the MAC the #8 conference its the MWC. MWC is what 1 million per school on CBS sports plus bonus money for ESPN appearances? They have advantages over the MAC because they can be placed into later TV windows out West.
The AAC is outright P5 overflow. Many of those programs were in a power conference before. Many of them have P5 level FB or BB attendance/donor numbers.
What would help the MAC the most is if the G5 as a unit continued to put pressure on the CFP system resulting in more access. MAC also I'd like to see dump bowl games against the SBC which are no win situations for the conference.
P5 Bowl (ACC has expressed interest)
x2 Bowls vs. MWC
x2 Bowls vs. CUSA
Holiday (MAC #1 vs. MWC #1)-Champs go here if not CFP.
Boca Bowl (MAC #2 vs. CUSA #2)-Second selection/Best record.
P5 Bowl game (MAC #3 vs. P5)-Local to the MAC footprint.
Bahamas bowl (MAC #4 vs. CUSA)
Potato bowl (MAC #5 vs. MWC)
I think the MAC should leverage its Potato relationship with the MWC for the Holiday Bowl which should be dropping from P5 status as the stadium is torn down. Then in Boca send the best non-champion (could be a 10 or 11 win team) to play CUSA's best non-champion. This way the MAC's #1/#2 have a quality bowl game.
I don't see how changing/expanding the footprint helps. It requires a plan on the post season.
Mountain West has a great bowl game with MWC #1 vs PAC12 # 5/6 in Las Vegas every year. They are not dropping that to play MAC #1.
-Las Vegas Bowl I'm projecting will become a PAC vs. B1G game with the new Raiders stadium coming online in 2020.
-Holiday Bowl I'm projecting would be the new location for the MWC #1 by 2020. They could play the PAC in it.
My idea would be to have some coordination around the G5 in 2020.
Holiday (MAC vs. MWC)
Independence (SBC vs. CUSA)
These champs would play each other. In the event that one of these champs earns the G5 slot they would be replaced by the AAC.
The MAC champ then would either play in the Holiday Bowl or the Fiesta, Cotton, Peach ect as the G5 representative. That would be nice for recruiting to know you are playing for something every year.
(04-08-2018 09:51 PM)DICK Wrote: [ -> ] (04-08-2018 02:59 PM)Kittonhead Wrote: [ -> ] (04-08-2018 07:19 AM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]K you have been trying to get them to expand thier footprint for yrs
All that talk was just to find away to get things going for TV.
With the MAC having a big TV deal now I don't see the point of it. I consider a $10 million a year deal for 10 years a big TV deal for a mid major conference. Its double the size of CUSA's and comparable to what the MWC is getting.
Everyone looks at the next conference up in TV. For the MWC the #7 conference its the AAC. For the MAC the #8 conference its the MWC. MWC is what 1 million per school on CBS sports plus bonus money for ESPN appearances? They have advantages over the MAC because they can be placed into later TV windows out West.
The AAC is outright P5 overflow. Many of those programs were in a power conference before. Many of them have P5 level FB or BB attendance/donor numbers.
What would help the MAC the most is if the G5 as a unit continued to put pressure on the CFP system resulting in more access. MAC also I'd like to see dump bowl games against the SBC which are no win situations for the conference.
P5 Bowl (ACC has expressed interest)
x2 Bowls vs. MWC
x2 Bowls vs. CUSA
Holiday (MAC #1 vs. MWC #1)-Champs go here if not CFP.
Boca Bowl (MAC #2 vs. CUSA #2)-Second selection/Best record.
P5 Bowl game (MAC #3 vs. P5)-Local to the MAC footprint.
Bahamas bowl (MAC #4 vs. CUSA)
Potato bowl (MAC #5 vs. MWC)
I think the MAC should leverage its Potato relationship with the MWC for the Holiday Bowl which should be dropping from P5 status as the stadium is torn down. Then in Boca send the best non-champion (could be a 10 or 11 win team) to play CUSA's best non-champion. This way the MAC's #1/#2 have a quality bowl game.
I don't see how changing/expanding the footprint helps. It requires a plan on the post season.
Mountain West has a great bowl game with MWC #1 vs PAC12 # 5/6 in Las Vegas every year. They are not dropping that to play MAC #1.
Only in Kit Kat’s mind will they.
(04-05-2018 09:00 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018 08:36 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018 07:25 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ]We have tradition, which is a good thing. Some of our rivalries go back 70 years. This surely beats the Sun Belt having to drum up interest in, say, South Alabama versus Texas State.
Yes, the tradition is good. Both WMU and CMU would be hurt if one of them left. And like it or not, their rivalries with EMU are still traditional rivalries. Toledo and NIU always seem to be good and are known as Division powers you have to beat if you want to win the Conference. Can't really comment as much on the East's rivalries but considering most of the East is in Ohio - there you go.
I feel like schools could develop new rivalries though, or continue to play some of the Trophy rivalries out-of-conference.
(04-05-2018 07:25 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ]We also don't have members stabbing each other in the back. Few things are more annoying than when one or two members of a conference think they are too good for everyone else. Look at what the West Coast Conference had to do to keep Gonzaga in the fold. They are cutting the conference schedule from 18 to 16 games. They are restructuring revenue sharing to give Gonzaga much more of the revenue from NCAA tournament appearances. All this -- and Gonzaga may still walk away in a couple of years.
Definitely a problem.
(04-05-2018 07:25 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ]Or look at how half the WAC cut and run for the Mountain West years ago or how Big East football imploded.
We don't have that kind of drama. And I'm glad for it.
Aren't some programs able to improve their conference positioning when there's major realignment?
The only good thing about the stability is that no school is forced to go down though.
(04-05-2018 07:25 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ]You seem to be saying it would be better if the MAC was occasionally backfilling as our members leave for other conferences. I sure don't see it that way. Would the MAC really be better off if we added James Madison to replace a strong former member departed for another conference? I sure don't think so. That's how the Sun Belt ended up where they are.
r most recent
I'm saying there shouldn't be anything wrong with programs wanting to use the MAC as a stepping stone - including any of the MAC's full 12 members. Does Average Joe really care if Western Michigan, James Madison, or Marshall is in the MAC if their own school is positioning themselves to separate from the rest?
We’ve had that drama in the past, with Marshall, NIU, Temple and CFU. I seem to recall Marshall trying to dictate terms of the MACC in their most recent MAC stay. Am I correct or fuzzy-brained on that?
Dictate? Cmon man.. we made a proposal. The MAC could've told us to go pound sand... they didn't. Of course, I could be wrong...
Stability and being tightly woven is a good thing. I'd do miss the easy drives to Athens, Kent, Akron, Oxford, and BUGS
(04-13-2018 08:23 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018 09:00 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018 08:36 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018 07:25 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ]We have tradition, which is a good thing. Some of our rivalries go back 70 years. This surely beats the Sun Belt having to drum up interest in, say, South Alabama versus Texas State.
Yes, the tradition is good. Both WMU and CMU would be hurt if one of them left. And like it or not, their rivalries with EMU are still traditional rivalries. Toledo and NIU always seem to be good and are known as Division powers you have to beat if you want to win the Conference. Can't really comment as much on the East's rivalries but considering most of the East is in Ohio - there you go.
I feel like schools could develop new rivalries though, or continue to play some of the Trophy rivalries out-of-conference.
(04-05-2018 07:25 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ]We also don't have members stabbing each other in the back. Few things are more annoying than when one or two members of a conference think they are too good for everyone else. Look at what the West Coast Conference had to do to keep Gonzaga in the fold. They are cutting the conference schedule from 18 to 16 games. They are restructuring revenue sharing to give Gonzaga much more of the revenue from NCAA tournament appearances. All this -- and Gonzaga may still walk away in a couple of years.
Definitely a problem.
(04-05-2018 07:25 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ]Or look at how half the WAC cut and run for the Mountain West years ago or how Big East football imploded.
We don't have that kind of drama. And I'm glad for it.
Aren't some programs able to improve their conference positioning when there's major realignment?
The only good thing about the stability is that no school is forced to go down though.
(04-05-2018 07:25 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote: [ -> ]You seem to be saying it would be better if the MAC was occasionally backfilling as our members leave for other conferences. I sure don't see it that way. Would the MAC really be better off if we added James Madison to replace a strong former member departed for another conference? I sure don't think so. That's how the Sun Belt ended up where they are.
r most recent
I'm saying there shouldn't be anything wrong with programs wanting to use the MAC as a stepping stone - including any of the MAC's full 12 members. Does Average Joe really care if Western Michigan, James Madison, or Marshall is in the MAC if their own school is positioning themselves to separate from the rest?
We’ve had that drama in the past, with Marshall, NIU, Temple and CFU. I seem to recall Marshall trying to dictate terms of the MACC in their most recent MAC stay. Am I correct or fuzzy-brained on that?
Dictate? Cmon man.. we made a proposal. The MAC could've told us to go pound sand... they didn't. Of course, I could be wrong...
Stability and being tightly woven is a good thing. I'd do miss the easy drives to Athens, Kent, Akron, Oxford, and BUGS
BUGS ??
You surely can’t miss the additional 22 mile trips north to T-town ...
Come on back, and bring friends (MTSU, WKU, and ODU) with you). The MAC could establish North-South divisions.
^ I wouldn't mind that at all.
(04-14-2018 11:24 AM)FMRocket Wrote: [ -> ]BUGS ??
You surely can’t miss the additional 22 mile trips north to T-town ...
Come on back, and bring friends (MTSU, WKU, and ODU) with you). The MAC could establish North-South divisions.
With I-90 as the Mason-Dixon line(?)!
(04-14-2018 07:46 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018 11:24 AM)FMRocket Wrote: [ -> ]BUGS ??
You surely can’t miss the additional 22 mile trips north to T-town ...
Come on back, and bring friends (MTSU, WKU, and ODU) with you). The MAC could establish North-South divisions.
With I-90 as the Mason-Dixon line(?)!
Route 30 makes more sense ...
NIU, Buffalo, Michigan and northern Ohio schools in the north with everyone else in a southern division along with either BG or Akron...
(04-07-2018 09:48 PM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]I agree stabilty is hurting to bring other schools in. [Army wasn't intrested, Marshall, UCF, Temple, UMass]
the bigest promblem with your stabilty is 9 schools within 2 states, that not a good thing
Absolutely, it is a completely saturated market, in a fantasy world I’d like to see the MAC kick out EMU, Kent St, Ball St, and possibly even Miami. And then try to bring in schools like Marshal, James Madison, Middle Tennessee. Way too many mediocre Ohio schools that backlog this conference.