Marshall seems to always have guys like Landy, Van Fleet, and Baker that are 3 stars just like the players we get, but they are incredibly smooh and comfortable in tough moments and environments. Landry is only a sophomore, but that kid is a baller, and exactly the kind of player our teams have always seem to be missing. Is it time Mick has a moment of reflection, and makes a slight change in his recruiting philosophy? Is Landry the kind of player Mick would go after, even if he was in his back yard?
Confirmation bias is a beautiful thing
Landry was a 4 star Top 100 recruit coming out of high school. He wasn’t exactly a “find”.
(02-19-2018 04:48 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Landry was a 4 star Top 100 recruit coming out of high school. He wasn’t exactly a “find”.
247 lists him as a 3 star and the #148 overall player. Certainly not a complete unknown in HS, but he was far from being a player out of our recruiting capacity.
This wasn't meant to be a "bash Mick" post. Listen, Mick is our guy here, and will be for the foreseeable future. With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing him try a little bit different approach. I hear a lot that the players we would like to get are out of reach and only available to the blue blood/P5s of the world, yet I see Gonzaga and Wichita bring in these players on a regular basis. I think Mick has a chance to do something special here still, I'm just not sure the current approach is the way to achieve that. Hope he proves me wrong.
(02-19-2018 06:32 AM)jarr Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2018 04:48 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Landry was a 4 star Top 100 recruit coming out of high school. He wasn’t exactly a “find”.
247 lists him as a 3 star and the #148 overall player. Certainly not a complete unknown in HS, but he was far from being a player out of our recruiting capacity.
This wasn't meant to be a "bash Mick" post. Listen, Mick is our guy here, and will be for the foreseeable future. With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing him try a little bit different approach. I hear a lot that the players we would like to get are out of reach and only available to the blue blood/P5s of the world, yet I see Gonzaga and Wichita bring in these players on a regular basis. I think Mick has a chance to do something special here still, I'm just not sure the current approach is the way to achieve that. Hope he proves me wrong.
So it is really a bash Mick thread not a Landry thread.
williams, cumberland, evans, hell even JJ was top talent
(02-19-2018 07:18 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2018 06:32 AM)jarr Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2018 04:48 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Landry was a 4 star Top 100 recruit coming out of high school. He wasn’t exactly a “find”.
247 lists him as a 3 star and the #148 overall player. Certainly not a complete unknown in HS, but he was far from being a player out of our recruiting capacity.
This wasn't meant to be a "bash Mick" post. Listen, Mick is our guy here, and will be for the foreseeable future. With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing him try a little bit different approach. I hear a lot that the players we would like to get are out of reach and only available to the blue blood/P5s of the world, yet I see Gonzaga and Wichita bring in these players on a regular basis. I think Mick has a chance to do something special here still, I'm just not sure the current approach is the way to achieve that. Hope he proves me wrong.
So it is really a bash Mick thread not a Landry thread.
You can be critical of his recruitment philosophy without "bashing" Mick.
(02-19-2018 08:09 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ]williams, cumberland, evans, hell even JJ was top talent
You got to let them play their game.
(02-19-2018 08:09 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ]williams, cumberland, evans, hell even JJ was top talent
Yeah, we've found plenty of talented guys. We've got a fair share of young guys coming up who look good as well (Williams, Moore, Nsoseme, hopefully Diarra). If anything one of Cronin's issues is a tendency to stick to veterans he knows (Jenifer this year, Kevin Johnson last year over guys newer to the team Broome this year, Cumbland last year). We've got a 3/4 star point guard coming next year (Logan Johnson I believe is his name).
The main thing is type I think. Coaches recruit a certain type of player. For Cronin that is long athletic players who are willing to play tough D. He is willing to take players who aren't as developed offensively. Ideally, you can get both, but if a guy can do everything he's probably a 5-star being paid to play at UK or Duke, not coming to UC.
(02-19-2018 08:26 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2018 08:09 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ]williams, cumberland, evans, hell even JJ was top talent
Yeah, we've found plenty of talented guys. We've got a fair share of young guys coming up who look good as well (Williams, Moore, Nsoseme, hopefully Diarra). If anything one of Cronin's issues is a tendency to stick to veterans he knows (Jenifer this year, Kevin Johnson last year over guys newer to the team Broome this year, Cumbland last year). We've got a 3/4 star point guard coming next year (Logan Johnson I believe is his name).
The main thing is type I think. Coaches recruit a certain type of player. For Cronin that is long athletic players who are willing to play tough D. He is willing to take players who aren't as developed offensively. Ideally, you can get both, but if a guy can do everything he's probably a 5-star being paid to play at UK or Duke, not coming to UC.
It's only 20-25 5* players ever year out of 10,000 kids. Plenty of guys that can pick from that can play both sides with right coaching. The REAL issue have with Mick is stop getting 3rd or 4th best player on their high school teams. Need start getting some 1st team all state guys that lead their team in scoring.
A couple of you are hitting on my big observation from yesterday: Wichita State is more skilled than we are across the board. We can talk about coaching, substitution patterns, rebounding, hitting shots, defense, et, but the bottom line is the guy who is is a little better will always win if all else is equal.
(02-19-2018 08:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]A couple of you are hitting on my big observation from yesterday: Wichita State is more skilled than we are across the board. We can talk about coaching, substitution patterns, rebounding, hitting shots, defense, et, but the bottom line is the guy who is is a little better will always win if all else is equal.
Keyword is skilled. Cronin and staff do a fine job teaching defensive technique, but offensive skill developed hasn't quite been there. Cumberland and Jake I think are a nice step in that direcrion, but we need more of that across the board. All 4 of our underclassmen bug guys are all raw projects, with little to no offense. Surely there are some big guys out there that could have brought a little more to the table other than being big and strong. Wright State has a 6-10 freshman with some really nice skills, that got totally missed by everone.
Going back looking at high school stats to see who was worthy of scholarship or was we reaching.
JJ- top 150(kid prodigy)
JC- top 50(diaper dandy)
JE- top 100(over 20ppg in HS)
GC- top 90(had quad dbl in HS)
KW©- top 80(played at brewster)
CB- UR( did avg over 25 in HS)
TS- top 270(played on 300 best team in GA and has football highlights)
NB- top 300(played for top 25 in HS)
TM- UR(shouldn't be on team)
KW(W)- Top 130(played against top notch players)
Nso- top 500(best big from canada)
MD- top 180(RAW)
(02-19-2018 09:21 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ]Going back looking at high school stats to see who was worthy of scholarship or was we reaching.
JJ- top 150(kid prodigy)
JC- top 50(diaper dandy)
JE- top 100(over 20ppg in HS)
GC- top 90(had quad dbl in HS)
KW©- top 80(played at brewster)
CB- UR( did avg over 25 in HS)
TS- top 270(played on 300 best team in GA and has football highlights)
NB- top 300(played for top 25 in HS)
TM- UR(shouldn't be on team)
KW(W)- Top 130(played against top notch players)
Nso- top 500(best big from canada)
MD- top 180(RAW)
recruiting rankings don't lie
(02-19-2018 09:23 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2018 09:21 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ]Going back looking at high school stats to see who was worthy of scholarship or was we reaching.
JJ- top 150(kid prodigy)
JC- top 50(diaper dandy)
JE- top 100(over 20ppg in HS)
GC- top 90(had quad dbl in HS)
KW©- top 80(played at brewster)
CB- UR( did avg over 25 in HS)
TS- top 270(played on 300 best team in GA and has football highlights)
NB- top 300(played for top 25 in HS)
TM- UR(shouldn't be on team)
KW(W)- Top 130(played against top notch players)
Nso- top 500(best big from canada)
MD- top 180(RAW)
recruiting rankings don't lie
Rankings, especially lower down aren't that reliable. The people doing the ranking can only watch so many games and so many players. Someone like Nsoseme could easily slip through the cracks and end up low because of lack of information on them. Diarra is similar. Rankings also have a tendency to favor blue-bloods. A 3 star that Duke recruits, they will slide him up to 4-star because Duke doesn't get it wrong. A 4-star that goes to UC, slide him down to 3-star because a 4-star wouldn't go there.
Mr "shouldn't be on team" is consistently outperforming "played against top notch players" as a freshman.
Looking at the team there are only 2 real busts. JJ and Scott and Scott is still only a sophomore. JJ I wouldn't be surprised if he transfers for his senior year, with Broome likely taking over the starting role and Johnson coming in as a freshman, there won't be much room for a career backup. JJ could pull a Ge'lawn Guyn and go be a star for a low D1 team.
(02-19-2018 06:32 AM)jarr Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2018 04:48 AM)CliftonAve Wrote: [ -> ]Landry was a 4 star Top 100 recruit coming out of high school. He wasn’t exactly a “find”.
247 lists him as a 3 star and the #148 overall player. Certainly not a complete unknown in HS, but he was far from being a player out of our recruiting capacity.
This wasn't meant to be a "bash Mick" post. Listen, Mick is our guy here, and will be for the foreseeable future. With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing him try a little bit different approach. I hear a lot that the players we would like to get are out of reach and only available to the blue blood/P5s of the world, yet I see Gonzaga and Wichita bring in these players on a regular basis. I think Mick has a chance to do something special here still, I'm just not sure the current approach is the way to achieve that. Hope he proves me wrong.
I was going by Rival's ranking for him. They ranked him #88 in the 2015 class. He was a two-time All-State player out of Kansas City, MO.
(02-19-2018 09:21 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ]Going back looking at high school stats to see who was worthy of scholarship or was we reaching.
JJ- top 150(kid prodigy)
JC- top 50(diaper dandy)
JE- top 100(over 20ppg in HS)
GC- top 90(had quad dbl in HS)
KW©- top 80(played at brewster)
CB- UR( did avg over 25 in HS)
TS- top 270(played on 300 best team in GA and has football highlights)
NB- top 300(played for top 25 in HS)
TM- UR(shouldn't be on team)
KW(W)- Top 130(played against top notch players)
Nso- top 500(best big from canada)
MD- top 180(RAW)
All good players. Seem like nice young men.
But not a single one is a guy that you can count on for a big game. That's what UC lacks. They just need one. But unfortunately they don't have anyone that can take over a game when its most needed. Mick needs one stud - even if he has to pay for it - or allow the kid to take classes at UNC.
Ok, Cataclysmo can go on his rant now since this is exactly what I posted on the game thread when his keyboard muscles took over. lol
(02-19-2018 09:38 AM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2018 09:23 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2018 09:21 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ]Going back looking at high school stats to see who was worthy of scholarship or was we reaching.
JJ- top 150(kid prodigy)
JC- top 50(diaper dandy)
JE- top 100(over 20ppg in HS)
GC- top 90(had quad dbl in HS)
KW©- top 80(played at brewster)
CB- UR( did avg over 25 in HS)
TS- top 270(played on 300 best team in GA and has football highlights)
NB- top 300(played for top 25 in HS)
TM- UR(shouldn't be on team)
KW(W)- Top 130(played against top notch players)
Nso- top 500(best big from canada)
MD- top 180(RAW)
recruiting rankings don't lie
Rankings, especially lower down aren't that reliable. The people doing the ranking can only watch so many games and so many players. Someone like Nsoseme could easily slip through the cracks and end up low because of lack of information on them. Diarra is similar. Rankings also have a tendency to favor blue-bloods. A 3 star that Duke recruits, they will slide him up to 4-star because Duke doesn't get it wrong. A 4-star that goes to UC, slide him down to 3-star because a 4-star wouldn't go there.
Mr "shouldn't be on team" is consistently outperforming "played against top notch players" as a freshman.
Looking at the team there are only 2 real busts. JJ and Scott and Scott is still only a sophomore. JJ I wouldn't be surprised if he transfers for his senior year, with Broome likely taking over the starting role and Johnson coming in as a freshman, there won't be much room for a career backup. JJ could pull a Ge'lawn Guyn and go be a star for a low D1 team.
Lol JJ isnt a bust dude. He shooting over 36% from 3 and hands down best passer on team(notice that clark and evans struggle with him off floor). Lights out Moore 32%. Rankings don't lie. Nso was #1 big from canada so he didnt just fall thru cracks. Diarra was top 200 in country so they knew he has some game. Broome averaged damn near 30 in high school so you knew he could at least score. Bigs get rated different from every other position. Brooks and Nso have lower rankings but both were top 25 C in their class, you can't beat that. So that leaves Moore and scott as guys who shouldn't probably made the cut.
(02-19-2018 10:42 AM)Ragpicker Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2018 09:21 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote: [ -> ]Going back looking at high school stats to see who was worthy of scholarship or was we reaching.
JJ- top 150(kid prodigy)
JC- top 50(diaper dandy)
JE- top 100(over 20ppg in HS)
GC- top 90(had quad dbl in HS)
KW©- top 80(played at brewster)
CB- UR( did avg over 25 in HS)
TS- top 270(played on 300 best team in GA and has football highlights)
NB- top 300(played for top 25 in HS)
TM- UR(shouldn't be on team)
KW(W)- Top 130(played against top notch players)
Nso- top 500(best big from canada)
MD- top 180(RAW)
All good players. Seem like nice young men.
But not a single one is a guy that you can count on for a big game. That's what UC lacks. They just need one. But unfortunately they don't have anyone that can take over a game when its most needed. Mick needs one stud - even if he has to pay for it - or allow the kid to take classes at UNC.
Ok, Cataclysmo can go on his rant now since this is exactly what I posted on the game thread when his keyboard muscles took over. lol
I disagree. Cumberland, washington, broome and evans all could give you 20 every night with right system and opportunity. Right now its too much of the clark and evans show trying get them 1st team honors. Never seen this before from major D1 coach. Unheard of for coach try pad players stats out in open like this. Clark isnt fortson or martin so STOP trying force feed him the ball, Evans at PG is worst coaching move from mick since he arrived. If teams go keep playing off JJ make sure he's sitting in spots where he hits highest % of 3's from, he has to play though to get other players around him easier shots. We look horrible without a real PG