CSNbbs

This is a question I always had about being Trans. If you think you were born with the wrong sex organs and sex hormones - who ultimately pays for the reassignment surgery? Is it done 100% by the person wanting the surgery? Is it subsidized heavily by the healthcare insurance provider? Is it paid for primarily by the state and/or Federal Gov't? Who is responsible for shouldering these costs?

Ethically speaking, if you feel you were not born "correctly", then it's 100% on you to shoulder the cost if you want reassignment surgery and the hormone treatments for the rest of your life. If you can find charities to help fund the surgery, gofundme or some other online site then kudos to you. However, if you are getting this surgery through health insurance and thus increasing the costs for all of us, or even worse having the gov't pay for your surgery, then I think it's highly unethical to expect that. Based on what I've been seeing on the web right now, WE are subsidizing gender transitions. IMHO, this is GROSS NEGLIGENCE by our gov't, and it's morally repugnant to force us to pay for it. None of this is medically necessary.

https://transequality.org/know-your-rights/medicare

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-m...SKBN1DF0CE

No doctor should perform this malpractice and should do no more than refer you to an ETHICAL mental health professional.

I agree on that Paul but it doesn't look like anything like that is in the cards. The LGBT block is too politically connected for it to happen. I think it's no different than genital mutilation with the only exception being the patient is not in his/her right mind to make such a decision.

(02-16-2018 03:59 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ]This is a question I always had about being Trans. If you think you were born with the wrong sex organs and sex hormones - who ultimately pays for the reassignment surgery? Is it done 100% by the person wanting the surgery? Is it subsidized heavily by the healthcare insurance provider? Is it paid for primarily by the state and/or Federal Gov't? Who is responsible for shouldering these costs?

Ethically speaking, if you feel you were not born "correctly", then it's 100% on you to shoulder the cost if you want reassignment surgery and the hormone treatments for the rest of your life. If you can find charities to help fund the surgery, gofundme or some other online site then kudos to you. However, if you are getting this surgery through health insurance and thus increasing the costs for all of us, or even worse having the gov't pay for your surgery, then I think it's highly unethical to expect that. Based on what I've been seeing on the web right now, WE are subsidizing gender transitions. IMHO, this is GROSS NEGLIGENCE by our gov't, and it's morally repugnant to force us to pay for it. None of this is medically necessary.

https://transequality.org/know-your-rights/medicare

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-m...SKBN1DF0CE

The overwhelming majority of these surgeries are paid for by the patient.

I will note, that if one says

1) A person must transition surgically to gain access to bathrooms, drivers licenses, etc. consistent with one's gender

AND

2) Want to make it next to impossible (Transgendered persons cannot get employment to pay for such surgery in the vast majority of cases, because of rampant employment discrimination that many anti-Trans activists openly advocate).

Then it appears that the real motivation is cruelty towards Trans persons.

(02-16-2018 04:14 PM)Paul M Wrote: [ -> ]No doctor should perform this malpractice and should do no more than refer you to an ETHICAL mental health professional.

Where did you get your MD? Virtually every trained and practicing medical professional disagrees with your assessment. And by virtually everyone, it means to a level of about 500,000 to 300.

Even if virtually everyone agrees with being wrong, they remain wrong. Not some number you pass that changes wrong to right.

(02-16-2018 06:05 PM)Paul M Wrote: [ -> ]Even if virtually everyone agrees with being wrong, they remain wrong. Not some number you pass that changes wrong to right.

Again, I'll go with the people who've spent their lives studying medicine and psychology. Exactly what are you basing your opinion on?

Um, body mutilation does nothing to treat a mental disorder. Duh.

Well we know that Federal prison system paid for at least one or did the funds come from the Army? California prison system also pays for it.

(02-16-2018 06:14 PM)Paul M Wrote: [ -> ]Um, body mutilation does nothing to treat a mental disorder. Duh.

Again, 500,000 practicing medical professionals belong to organizations that strongly disagree with you. 500 (maybe) agree with you.

It was voted on by the AMA house of delegates which has over 500 members (500, not 500,000). This is the policy forming body of the AMA. The 500,000 rank and file members vote on nothing.

So it is untrue that 500,000 agree with the policy statement.
At most, <600 voted on it.

You may honestly say that a majority of the 500 delegates agree with any position of the AMA, that is all.

Please note that I make no endorsement or condemnation of transgendered people with this post. I am simply correcting the oft repeated untruth that AMA rank and file members have anything to do with these policies.

(02-16-2018 06:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-16-2018 06:14 PM)Paul M Wrote: [ -> ]Um, body mutilation does nothing to treat a mental disorder. Duh.

Again, 500,000 practicing medical professionals belong to organizations that strongly disagree with you. 500 (maybe) agree with you.

Got a link to that? I honestly dont care what you, Paul, or anyone else does to your body. I personally don't think it makes you male or female just by doing this...but as long as its not forced on me I don't care. Live your life and I will live mine. But I would like to read the link to see what these 500,000 people say

Tom this is a bridge to far for some. Some people simply cannot let go of beliefs instilled in them from childhood.
Science has far outpaced some peoples ability to adapt their thinking to newly discovered facts.

They're not mean, just scarred.

(02-16-2018 06:30 PM)Old Dominion Wrote: [ -> ]Tom this is a bridge to far for some. Some people simply cannot let go of beliefs instilled in them from childhood.
Science has far outpaced some peoples ability to adapt their thinking to newly discovered facts.

They're not mean, just scarred.

As I said..personally I dont care. But I want you to show me the FACT having this surgery makes them male, or female?

As far as science the holy grail is probably DNA and in that science will tell you you are still a male or female...not the other sex just because you cut it off and have breast and a doctor split you

(02-16-2018 06:30 PM)Old Dominion Wrote: [ -> ]Tom this is a bridge to far for some. Some people simply cannot let go of beliefs instilled in them from childhood.
Science has far outpaced some peoples ability to adapt their thinking to newly discovered facts.

They're not mean, just scarred.

"Science" that says if you're male but want to be female, you can change simply on "feels" isn't science. And no one's scared. Dumb using fake phobias in place of real argument. For which there are none on this topic. The science was settled before each of us were born. The real science.

(02-16-2018 06:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Again, 500,000 practicing medical professionals belong to organizations that strongly disagree with you. 500 (maybe) agree with you.

See the nice bait and switch tommy puts on here is pretending that its unanimous, or close to unanimous among the AMA and other large organizations. It's not...

(02-16-2018 07:06 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-16-2018 06:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]Again, 500,000 practicing medical professionals belong to organizations that strongly disagree with you. 500 (maybe) agree with you.

See the nice bait and switch tommy puts on here is pretending that its unanimous, or close to unanimous among the AMA and other large organizations. It's not...

i dont give a shite if the AMA says its ok for a child to have a goat horn surgically installed on a kids head, they can go frick themselves, i think for myself.

(02-16-2018 06:46 PM)Paul M Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-16-2018 06:30 PM)Old Dominion Wrote: [ -> ]Tom this is a bridge to far for some. Some people simply cannot let go of beliefs instilled in them from childhood.
Science has far outpaced some peoples ability to adapt their thinking to newly discovered facts.

They're not mean, just scarred.

"Science" that says if you're male but want to be female, you can change simply on "feels" isn't science.

The bar for a person needing to transition passed "medical evidence" a long time ago. Hell it's move from "transgendered, to non-binary, to demi, to faery, and 58 other genders...

None of which can produce a shred of biological evidence to it's standing as an alternate gender...

Tumbler ain't science.

(02-16-2018 05:07 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-16-2018 04:14 PM)Paul M Wrote: [ -> ]No doctor should perform this malpractice and should do no more than refer you to an ETHICAL mental health professional.

Where did you get your MD? Virtually every trained and practicing medical professional disagrees with your assessment. And by virtually everyone, it means to a level of about 500,000 to 300.

Wrong

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(02-16-2018 06:20 PM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote: [ -> ]It was voted on by the AMA house of delegates which has over 500 members (500, not 500,000). This is the policy forming body of the AMA. The 500,000 rank and file members vote on nothing.

So it is untrue that 500,000 agree with the policy statement.
At most, <600 voted on it.

You may honestly say that a majority of the 500 delegates agree with any position of the AMA, that is all.

Please note that I make no endorsement or condemnation of transgendered people with this post. I am simply correcting the oft repeated untruth that AMA rank and file members have anything to do with these policies.

I don't even believe one can honestly even say the majority of those delegates agree with that position. My bet. They just did not want to be labeled by SJW's like Tom as bigots and voted under pressure to go along with this nonsense.

Just because I feel like I am a woman does not make me one...regardless of how I choose to mutilate my body to look like one. How I "feel" is totally irrelevant to my biological sex. Maybe at some point some technology can be developed(God help us) that can actually change ones chromosomal makeup from one gender to another..but..until that day. You are...what you are. I have no problem with you carrying out your fantasy and will treat you with the same respect as everyone else...but...I refuse to engage in your delusional state. Don't get mad if I just ignore your desire for validation. It is not going to happen.