CSNbbs

OK now.... Relax. This worked previously on this talk network.
Maybe it will work again.
Really hope so.

(01-24-2018 09:47 PM)Pete Wrote: [ -> ]OK now.... Relax. This worked previously on this talk network.
Maybe it will work again.
Really hope so.

That “if she wins the MACC and get an NCAA bid she’ll have proved herself” thing died quickly. This team has really surprised me- we struggle to win at home and consistently get blown out on the road in MAC games. There are simply no shooters. Without Boyd we might be a 4-5 win team right now. There is some talent, especially McIntyre and Santucci, who seems to be crawling from the ooze of bad offense onto terra firms, but ever so slowly. Apart from that-nada. I think Jay-Ann has regressed from her freshman year and the rest of the squad seem to be role players looking for a role. We seemed so sharp early in the year but it hasn’t come back.

Coach C is a great person, great coach, but a poor recruiter. She gets the most out of the available talent.

"available" talent? We need to wait for rockets to Mars to find more available talent?

IF someone has a problem with the talent I think the phrase would be "talent chosen."

Is Coach C not attempting to recruit more available talent? Or not successful in doing that? We know about the Toledo to EMU debacle but I don't think Coach C could be faulted for talent that ended up at ND or other major programs. Losing talent to Dayton, Wright St.... might be on the discussion if that happens. Are there difficulties at the associate level, hiring coaches that support the program and recruit well?

Great representative and historically a pretty darn good coach for Toledo.

Joking understood, as on the other thread I'm still uncomfortable with the thread title.

Recognizing that the thread title is tongue in cheek and in reference to another thread about men's basketball, I still feel the need to say that, no matter what the Rockets' win-loss record is at the end of the season, I will continue to have a lot of respect for Coach Cullop.

As for the state of the program, it's not great at the moment. We have too many players with offensive challenges. St. Fort brings defense and toughness, but it's a real handicap to have a player on the floor who doesn't have to be guarded. I agree with H2O's comment about Bravo-Harriot. Her game has become more one-dimensional offensively, and she fouls a lot. Even the defense has been inconsistent. Last night, I saw Jada Woody, a senior, play help defense that a high school coach would not have tolerated. Santucci was beaten off the dribble several times. Korinek was allowed all the time and space she wanted to operate one-on-one in the low post.

With foul trouble and Cunningham's injury, it was clear that we needed another body last night. Cullop was finally forced to play one of her freshmen, Mariah Copeland, who proceeded to miss badly on two three-pointers, including one with no defender in sight. That makes 1-11 on the year for a player who was recruited on the basis of her outside shooting. The other two freshman guards have been almost as ineffective. Beacham's defensive inadequacies were exposed last night in her short stint.

The "Statistics" page on the Rockets' website has not been updated for the last three games. I guess that's a measure of how embarrassed we are by our offensive numbers.

She got us to the NCAA tournament last season. Even though I’m one of the biggest a$$hats on this board regarding wanting coaches fired, she earned a 5 yr pass from me. Sure, I want to get back there and revenge that 30 pt embarrassing loss to Creighton last year but I think we’ll be playing atleast into the semifinals in Cleveland come March. I think we’ll be back into the NCAA tournament within the next 2-3 yrs.

Recruiting has been very hit or miss under Cullop. I know, you can say the same about any coach anywhere. For every Kaayla there's a ________. Hard to build a program that's capable of winning back-to-back championships that way. Of the 3 freshmen we brought in this season, I really thought if anyone was going to contribute this season it would be 1 of the 2 out-of-town ladies. Now, I'm not so certain the whole class shouldn't have just red-shirted.

No matter how this season finishes, I agree that Cullop has earned the right to show what direction she has the program headed to over the next few seasons. A WNIT championship (granted, all games played at home) and a MAC Tourney championship followed by a trip to the NCAA (granted, with a bit of luck in the MAC tournament) are better finishes than the men's team has had in the same time period.

(01-25-2018 08:26 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote: [ -> ]Recruiting has been very hit or miss under Cullop. I know, you can say the same about any coach anywhere. For every Kaayla there's a ________. Hard to build a program that's capable of winning back-to-back championships that way. Of the 3 freshmen we brought in this season, I really thought if anyone was going to contribute this season it would be 1 of the 2 out-of-town ladies. Now, I'm not so certain the whole class shouldn't have just red-shirted.

No matter how this season finishes, I agree that Cullop has earned the right to show what direction she has the program headed to over the next few seasons. A WNIT championship (granted, all games played at home) and a MAC Tourney championship followed by a trip to the NCAA (granted, with a bit of luck in the MAC tournament) are better finishes than the men's team has had in the same time period.

Had the men’s team received a bid to the WNIT I feel they would have had an outstanding chance at winning it all. Coach C has had some hard luck on the recruiting trail. A few years ago she brought in the highest ranked recruit in MAC history and the media’s preseason pick for MAC FOY. It says a great deal that I can’t recall the young lady’s name. She was injured, then gone and ended up at a JC, maybe? Cat Wells washed out quickly at UT, the first of three or four schools for her. Both were highly rated, and Wells, at least, did well at her other schools, IIRC. Right now Coach is two shooters from being very competitive. Davis was a big scorer in Ga. Wright was as well, although conditioning appears to be a factor for her. Beecham reminds me a bit of Nathan Boothe-huge upside but draws a fouls for walking on the floor and a quick second for tying her shoes. Who do we have coming in next year besides the transfer?

(01-25-2018 09:57 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018 08:26 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote: [ -> ]Recruiting has been very hit or miss under Cullop. I know, you can say the same about any coach anywhere. For every Kaayla there's a ________. Hard to build a program that's capable of winning back-to-back championships that way. Of the 3 freshmen we brought in this season, I really thought if anyone was going to contribute this season it would be 1 of the 2 out-of-town ladies. Now, I'm not so certain the whole class shouldn't have just red-shirted.

No matter how this season finishes, I agree that Cullop has earned the right to show what direction she has the program headed to over the next few seasons. A WNIT championship (granted, all games played at home) and a MAC Tourney championship followed by a trip to the NCAA (granted, with a bit of luck in the MAC tournament) are better finishes than the men's team has had in the same time period.

Had the men’s team received a bid to the WNIT I feel they would have had an outstanding chance at winning it all. Coach C has had some hard luck on the recruiting trail. A few years ago she brought in the highest ranked recruit in MAC history and the media’s preseason pick for MAC FOY. It says a great deal that I can’t recall the young lady’s name. She was injured, then gone and ended up at a JC, maybe? Cat Wells washed out quickly at UT, the first of three or four schools for her. Both were highly rated, and Wells, at least, did well at her other schools, IIRC. Right now Coach is two shooters from being very competitive. Davis was a big scorer in Ga. Wright was as well, although conditioning appears to be a factor for her. Beecham reminds me a bit of Nathan Boothe-huge upside but draws a fouls for walking on the floor and a quick second for tying her shoes. Who do we have coming in next year besides the transfer?

This KSU team is not very good to start with. Coach C made no adjustments at half time to stop KSU's post player. She could have tried a zone defense or double team her. She didn't do either. KSU can't shoot from the outside, so collapse the defense when the ball went to the post, coach C let KM get out muscled all night, why giving up 30 pts to this girl. To me it's a problem with coaching. You have to try something different, if, what you are doing isn't working. I know everyone loves coach C, but this team is a step or two slower then the rest of the league. I don't see this team making it out of Toledo for the MAC tourney.

(01-25-2018 03:37 PM)FrickerRon Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018 09:57 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018 08:26 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote: [ -> ]Recruiting has been very hit or miss under Cullop. I know, you can say the same about any coach anywhere. For every Kaayla there's a ________. Hard to build a program that's capable of winning back-to-back championships that way. Of the 3 freshmen we brought in this season, I really thought if anyone was going to contribute this season it would be 1 of the 2 out-of-town ladies. Now, I'm not so certain the whole class shouldn't have just red-shirted.

No matter how this season finishes, I agree that Cullop has earned the right to show what direction she has the program headed to over the next few seasons. A WNIT championship (granted, all games played at home) and a MAC Tourney championship followed by a trip to the NCAA (granted, with a bit of luck in the MAC tournament) are better finishes than the men's team has had in the same time period.

Had the men’s team received a bid to the WNIT I feel they would have had an outstanding chance at winning it all. Coach C has had some hard luck on the recruiting trail. A few years ago she brought in the highest ranked recruit in MAC history and the media’s preseason pick for MAC FOY. It says a great deal that I can’t recall the young lady’s name. She was injured, then gone and ended up at a JC, maybe? Cat Wells washed out quickly at UT, the first of three or four schools for her. Both were highly rated, and Wells, at least, did well at her other schools, IIRC. Right now Coach is two shooters from being very competitive. Davis was a big scorer in Ga. Wright was as well, although conditioning appears to be a factor for her. Beecham reminds me a bit of Nathan Boothe-huge upside but draws a fouls for walking on the floor and a quick second for tying her shoes. Who do we have coming in next year besides the transfer?

This KSU team is not very good to start with. Coach C made no adjustments at half time to stop KSU's post player. She could have tried a zone defense or double team her. She didn't do either. KSU can't shoot from the outside, so collapse the defense when the ball went to the post, coach C let KM get out muscled all night, why giving up 30 pts to this girl. To me it's a problem with coaching. You have to try something different, if, what you are doing isn't working. I know everyone loves coach C, but this team is a step or two slower then the rest of the league. I don't see this team making it out of Toledo for the MAC tourney.

I agree with your post. There were no adjustments made at half time. McIntyre will find if difficult to score with two or three defenders converging on her. Not sure if help can come from our current freshman class because of their limited playing time. Davis appears to have the talent but it's hard to evaluate due to the lack of playing time.

This team is just hard to figure. Stats are now updated thru Kent, and overall on the season the team is not shooting badly at all - 41.8% which is the best in the last 6 years. I know it sure doesn't look like it on the floor tho. I think that's because they go into terrible slumps that last entire halves or even games. But overall, they show the capability of shooting reasonably well.

Three point shooting is down a bit, but not that much from past teams. They are 28.5%, whereas the 29-4 2012-13 team only shot 30.4% from 3, for example. But 3 point shooting has trailed off a lot in MAC play, so that's been a factor of late. But given that they didn't shoot that badly from 3 in OOC, that indicates the players are capable of making the shots, they just haven't been.

Rebounding is down a lot this year, but in conference play believe it or not, they are 3rd in rebounding margin. Again, it wouldn't appear that way from watching many games.

Very confounding to put a pin on what's really different this year compared to last from the stats.

I do though wonder about the assistant coaching. I wondered about that most of last year until they put things together at the end of the season. It seems to me the team chemistry on the floor has changed significantly since Griggs left the coaching ranks - maybe that's just a coincidence, but I'm not sure. On offense, the schemes just don't look as good as some past seasons - spacing isn't good for example, where you often see 3 players playing within 5 feet of each other. And they have been awful at getting back on defense this season which again would seem to be a coaching issue. As for why they haven't tried playing zone, they tried that a few times in OOC and many players seemed completely lost, not to mention that would probably compound the rebounding issue.

I don't know. I'm puzzled. With these players, they should be better than this.

I feel bad saying this, but some of the comments from those who have no never coached or any idea what goes into coach, are so off base, I really don't know what to say. We all have a right to our opinion. Coach C knows more about every aspect of basketball than any of us. She has changed her defenses and offenses based on her players. I really wish our men's coach would make those same adjustments.
Just reading the posting in this has me wondering what those making the comments know about basketball or coaching. No coaching is
perfect, even the best ever coach Wooden admitted he wasn't. I will remind you that some of the same comments were made at the same time last year. Didn't we win the MAC championship.
I am not sure what any coach could do to make everyone happy. I go to practice and see incredible coaching going on. I see good adjustment in games made. They may not be what we all want, but most work out. I am sorry, but as a former coach. I get tired of hearing negative comments about good coaches in any sport.

(01-27-2018 12:18 AM)hwut1 Wrote: [ -> ]I feel bad saying this, but some of the comments from those who have no never coached or any idea what goes into coach, are so off base, I really don't know what to say. We all have a right to our opinion. Coach C knows more about every aspect of basketball than any of us. She has changed her defenses and offenses based on her players. I really wish our men's coach would make those same adjustments.
Just reading the posting in this has me wondering what those making the comments know about basketball or coaching. No coaching is
perfect, even the best ever coach Wooden admitted he wasn't. I will remind you that some of the same comments were made at the same time last year. Didn't we win the MAC championship.
I am not sure what any coach could do to make everyone happy. I go to practice and see incredible coaching going on. I see good adjustment in games made. They may not be what we all want, but most work out. I am sorry, but as a former coach. I get tired of hearing negative comments about good coaches in any sport.

"good" is relative.

If you're not enjoying the opinions, you can leave them or you can do what we do and try and change them and then perhaps you will enjoy your time here more. But warning, this is a hard sell crowd to whom you just gave a soft sell. Maybe use that former experience to give details on what "good" coaching you see and how it is better than what those critical think they should have on hire. I believe they'd be welcome.

My point isn't to dispute your opinion of Coach Cullop, who I like and admire but your reasoning. College coaches, almost ALL of them are hired and fired by people who have never coached. You didn't describe a single thing NOT done by EVERY coach everywhere, almost all of whom have been let go at some point of their career.

And for that matter, the opinions of "former" coaches or present coaches are of no more value on a message board. Their insight maybe, but you really didn't give any technical insight. You gave minimal qualitative opinion.

So why you ragging on those, whom you have no idea they coached or not? Sorry that this interchange pains you. But it is an online message board. If you're not enjoying the company, it's the easiest company in the world to close the door on.

(01-27-2018 12:18 AM)hwut1 Wrote: [ -> ]I feel bad saying this, but some of the comments from those who have no never coached or any idea what goes into coach, are so off base, I really don't know what to say. We all have a right to our opinion. Coach C knows more about every aspect of basketball than any of us. She has changed her defenses and offenses based on her players. I really wish our men's coach would make those same adjustments.
Just reading the posting in this has me wondering what those making the comments know about basketball or coaching. No coaching is
perfect, even the best ever coach Wooden admitted he wasn't. I will remind you that some of the same comments were made at the same time last year. Didn't we win the MAC championship.
I am not sure what any coach could do to make everyone happy. I go to practice and see incredible coaching going on. I see good adjustment in games made. They may not be what we all want, but most work out. I am sorry, but as a former coach. I get tired of hearing negative comments about good coaches in any sport.

I’ll repost my favorite line about fans and coaches:
“The perfect season for any fan is one in which his team goes undefeated, wins the national championship and the coach gets fired.”

Hwut, we’re ALL coaches and if we didn’t have to go to our other jobs we’d have UT or Evansville or Tennessee-Martin or Idaho in the Final Four every year. Winning isn’t enough- you must win MY way. It’s the nature of fandom.

I think that for 90% of the coaches at this level it comes down to results vs. expectations. For whatever reasons, the fan base for the women’s team skews a bit older (and I’m in the group myself) than for the men’s team. I think that increases the challenge for Coach Cullop. If she were the only UT women’s b-ball coach to have a winning record, or to have won the MAC, or to have earned a trip to the NCAAs, or to have taken the Rockets into the top 25, then I think the going would be easier for her. But, expectations are, and have been, higher.

I’d hazard a guess that many of us who are so rabid on this topic remember the Bill Fennelly years. Fairly or not, that is the legacy Cullop is up against. Now, I fully believe that Fennelly was at the right place at the right time—women’s basketball was not quite yet the sport it is today, and other than BG and Kent State, there weren’t other MAC programs that were making it a priority.

Still, those “glory years” could have been the springboard to something special. Instead of focusing on being the next Boise St. in football or Butler in men’s basketball, we could have built a mid-major power in women’s basketball.

After a bit of a slump, Cullop was hired. And she built some very good teams. I—and many other fans—thought we were “back” after winning the WNIT. While we didn’t beat top-25 teams, we beat some well-known names. However, since that time, it’s been a bit of a roller coaster, so my jury is still out on the question of results vs. expectations.

In my opinion one major problem is a lack of leadership on the floor during games. McIntyre and Boyd are the heart of the team but they both lead in a very quiet manner. Maybe this team misses Sophie's presence on the team. There is for me also a lack of toughness and hustle, excepting Boyd. I see too many times where the opponent gets to more than their share of loose balls.

Beyond that I would offer that McIntyre is the only player on the team who has improved significantly from last year. Boyd has continued to play well, particularly since the beginning of the conference season. But she was also playing excellent last season. Bravo-Harriott averaged 10 points/game her freshman year (I think) and has in the point production range all four years. I would have hoped that she would be a bigger scorer in subsequent years. Someone noted her proclivity to foul but this year she is also starting the game defending the leading scoring guard on the opposing team. Santuccci has improved marginally on shooting in the last few games but her year shooting stats are still below the anemic level from last year (excepting that she is doing much better with free throws). And Sanctucci's assist/turnover ration is worse than last year which is probably why she lost her starting role. Rokkanen doesn't seem to be an answer. She has had lots of opportunities and is not hesitant to shoot but her shooting percentages are still very low for a starter. I keep hearing about St Fort and her defense. I think she plays defense better than some of the other options but her lack of offense is a big problem. And she is shooting 28% on free throws. 28% from a junior who one would think has been working on free throw shooting as part of the practices for three years. Woody and Rasmussen continue to be marginal contributors. And the freshmen have contributed nothing. And then there is the JC transfer who is a complete nonentity.

Finally I think the team defense this year lags behind the level of effectiveness from recent seasons. The last two games are dramatic examples of teams which played much better defensively than the rockets did. And there is a growing line of opposing players who have put up big numbers in their games against us this year. It doesn't seem to matter whether they are inside or outside we don't seem to have anyone who can play them one on one and limit scoring opportunities.

Net result is a team which is 25-9 one year, is 13-7 with 6/7 losses by double digits. With 4 of the next 5 games on the road we will soon know whether this team can be competitive come MAC tourney time. And being competitive seems like the most realistic goal at this point from my perspective.

(01-27-2018 12:18 AM)hwut1 Wrote: [ -> ]I feel bad saying this, but some of the comments from those who have no never coached or any idea what goes into coach, are so off base, I really don't know what to say. We all have a right to our opinion. Coach C knows more about every aspect of basketball than any of us. She has changed her defenses and offenses based on her players. I really wish our men's coach would make those same adjustments.
Just reading the posting in this has me wondering what those making the comments know about basketball or coaching. No coaching is
perfect, even the best ever coach Wooden admitted he wasn't. I will remind you that some of the same comments were made at the same time last year. Didn't we win the MAC championship.
I am not sure what any coach could do to make everyone happy. I go to practice and see incredible coaching going on. I see good adjustment in games made. They may not be what we all want, but most work out. I am sorry, but as a former coach. I get tired of hearing negative comments about good coaches in any sport.

1. Your status as a former coach is only slightly relevant, in my opinion. We should judge each other's ideas on their merits, not based on our resumes. This is an anonymous board, and most of us (but not all) choose to remain anonymous. If you want us to give your opinion special weight because of who you are, you would need to identify yourself.
2. I agree with you that Coach Cullop knows more about basketball than at least the vast majority of us. (Not sure what basketball experts might be on this board.) The question is, does she know more about basketball than Brady Sallee, Sue Guevara, and the rest of the MAC coaches? At the college level, the coach is responsible for recruiting and coaching the team, so there is no one else to blame (or credit) for the state of the program. Despite great fan support, the Rockets are a middle-of-the-pack MAC team so far this season. That status dissatisfies some of us. Over Cullop's career at Toledo, her teams have not been average, so I continue to think that she's a pretty good coach. Being greedy, though, I am disappointed that Cullop was unable to parlay the NIT championship, which generated unbelievable community enthusiasm. I was hoping we would become the elite MAC program, contending for a conference championship every year, as Bowling Green did under Curt Miller.
3. I love Coach Cullop and the Rockets women's team. I will continue to go to the games and cheer even if they continue to be mediocre. However, my loyalty does not extend to a refusal to criticize. For me, part of the fun of being on this board is to communicate respectfully but honestly about our perceptions of the team.
4. Your post ends by comparing Coach Cullop favorably with Coach K. I have said before that I am not a fan of Coach K for reasons that have nothing to do with wins and losses. However, his level of success at UT has been not been much below Coach Cullop's, and his current team is performing much better than hers.

1 win.. now UT women keep winning.
Also gang keep the input coming.

This one is for any refs out there: what is the rule about coaches on the floor and is Roos an egregious violator of same? She literally impeded Rocket players on at least two possessions and was constantly two steps out on the floor, and when she wanted a time out she ran out on the floor to call it. Waaaay out on the floor? Why no warnings or calls? I get giving her a little leeway but that was ridiculous.