Trying to cool down after getting home from what I would consider the most horrendous officiating in quite some time. Maybe back to Miami in the Glass Bowl in 2003. I DVR'd the game and will see if the things I saw vs. what was called or not called is correct - or not.
Just glad we won easily because this would sound like sour grapes. These MAC officials are just plain awful. There has to be a bias going on. No way do you make some of those calls and let others go as consistently as they did in this game.
I wonder how Vegas is viewing this game. A lot of money changed hands at the end of the game. A 38-0 nothing lead, then the refs get involved and we win by 18. Right. I also want to see how much elapsed time there was between the 1:16 mark of the 3rd quarter until 13:25 of the 4th quarter. A total of 1:51 of game clock time and I had it at 22 minutes of elapsed time - while those bozos tried to figure out what to call. It was embarrassing to the league - but I don't think this league could be embarrassed. It would have to have some stature first.
I want to look at two of the fumbles more closely, especially Seymour's and I still dont get the possible touch back where the akron guy was in the end zone and the ball gets spotted at the 3. Also the punt return with the hold and unsportsmanlike penalty, but the ball got spotted way back further than I thought it should be.
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I just assumed they were trying to keep people in the stadium. Between fat Toledo and fat Akron, I'm sure the concessions were busy making money.
(12-02-2017 05:57 PM)emanoh Wrote: [ -> ]I want to look at two of the fumbles more closely, especially Seymour's and I still dont get the possible touch back where the akron guy was in the end zone and the ball gets spotted at the 3. Also the punt return with the hold and unsportsmanlike penalty, but the ball got spotted way back further than I thought it should be.
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First one was the correct call, ball was coming out. Didn’t think so during real time, but it was the correct call.
Ball spotted on the 3 looked close, but no good angles to overturn
Last one with the crappy spot didn’t make sense since Akron had a late hit.
Targeting call sucked, but may have been correct due to the imperfect wording of the rule.
It has been my opinion over the last couple of years that MAC Football officials, at least sum, are dirty. I honestly believe that there have been certain games where they try to influence/push the game towards the spread.
(12-02-2017 08:41 PM)falconplucker Wrote: [ -> ]It has been my opinion over the last couple of years that MAC Football officials, at least sum, are dirty. I honestly believe that there have been certain games where they try to influence/push the game towards the spread.
No. They may blow some calls and tick us off but officials don’t throw games...except for Tim Donaghy
Terry and Shakif's fumbles were fumbles. The ball was coming out both times before their knees hit the ground.
(12-02-2017 07:26 PM)ToledoMike Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2017 05:57 PM)emanoh Wrote: [ -> ]I want to look at two of the fumbles more closely, especially Seymour's and I still dont get the possible touch back where the akron guy was in the end zone and the ball gets spotted at the 3. Also the punt return with the hold and unsportsmanlike penalty, but the ball got spotted way back further than I thought it should be.
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First one was the correct call, ball was coming out. Didn’t think so during real time, but it was the correct call.
Ball spotted on the 3 looked close, but no good angles to overturn
Last one with the crappy spot didn’t make sense since Akron had a late hit.
Targeting call sucked, but may have been correct due to the imperfect wording of the rule.
The targeting call was the worst I have ever seen if the Rockets can appeal it to get him play the whole Bowl game. Also while the unsportsmanlike was clearly the correct call when I looked at the replay the Refs missed a face mask on the Akron player which is why he was so mad.
(12-02-2017 09:29 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: [ -> ]Terry and Shakif's fumbles were fumbles. The ball was coming out both times before their knees hit the ground.
Correct. The call that blows my mind is the punt where the Akron guy was clearly on the end zone line with the ball in possession, therefore indicating a touchback, yet after review they keep it on the 3??? BS.
Definitely didn't agree with the targeting call but then again I'm not all that certain what targeting really is nowadays. Just sucks Ola has to miss the first half of the bowl game, hopefully he was able to return to the field once the game ended to celebrate with his team.
Refs in the MAC are definitely 2nd rate.
Thanks to the officiating and reviews, the beginning of the 4th quarter took 28 minutes to play 2 minutes of game action.
(12-02-2017 10:34 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote: [ -> ]Definitely didn't agree with the targeting call but then again I'm not all that certain what targeting really is nowadays. Just sucks Ola has to miss the first half of the bowl game, hopefully he was able to return to the field once the game ended to celebrate with his team.
I didn't know you could call targeting when you hit a guy square in the chest on a running play. That pretty much happens every play some where on the feild. Secondly, I didn't realize you can calll targeting when there was no flag called for it on teh feild. I was at the game, and the refs decided to review for targeting once they saw the video reply on the big screen and heard the "oohs and aahs" from the crowd. A complete emabrrassmnet by the MAC to allow that to happen to Toledo's best Defensive player, knowing he will now miss the first half of the bowl game. Game was long over when this play happened. Real smart MAC crew.
(12-03-2017 12:11 AM)BDV27 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2017 10:34 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote: [ -> ]Definitely didn't agree with the targeting call but then again I'm not all that certain what targeting really is nowadays. Just sucks Ola has to miss the first half of the bowl game, hopefully he was able to return to the field once the game ended to celebrate with his team.
I didn't know you could call targeting when you hit a guy square in the chest on a running play. That pretty much happens every play some where on the feild. Secondly, I didn't realize you can calll targeting when there was no flag called for it on teh feild. I was at the game, and the refs decided to review for targeting once they saw the video reply on the big screen and heard the "oohs and aahs" from the crowd. A complete emabrrassmnet by the MAC to allow that to happen to Toledo's best Defensive player, knowing he will now miss the first half of the bowl game. Game was long over when this play happened. Real smart MAC crew.
Excellent analysis.
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(12-03-2017 12:11 AM)BDV27 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2017 10:34 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote: [ -> ]Definitely didn't agree with the targeting call but then again I'm not all that certain what targeting really is nowadays. Just sucks Ola has to miss the first half of the bowl game, hopefully he was able to return to the field once the game ended to celebrate with his team.
I didn't know you could call targeting when you hit a guy square in the chest on a running play. That pretty much happens every play some where on the feild. Secondly, I didn't realize you can calll targeting when there was no flag called for it on teh feild. I was at the game, and the refs decided to review for targeting once they saw the video reply on the big screen and heard the "oohs and aahs" from the crowd. A complete emabrrassmnet by the MAC to allow that to happen to Toledo's best Defensive player, knowing he will now miss the first half of the bowl game. Game was long over when this play happened. Real smart MAC crew.
The refs on the field cannot call for a targeting review, but the replay officials can even if no flag is thrown. That is the NCAAs attempt to make the game safer.
Ok - since I watched the replay late last night and again early this morning - with the slow motion option - I'll run through what I saw and answer some of the other comments.
- I said at the game, the Swanson fumble was going to go to Akron when they showed the replay. I can agree with that call, but I still question if the replay had enough conclusive evidence to say he lost control of the ball before his knee hit the turf. Looked to me like they concluded that because the ball was clearly out before it hit the turf and was out of his hand then for sure. Questionable, but not horrid.
- Seymour fumble - absolutely no way they could overturn that on the video replay. They do not have "extra cameras" on the field that they always claim there is. His knee was clearly down before the ball came out. There was nothing in the replay that disputed that fact.
Need to finish this later. Just heard a huge explosion near my house. Ran outside but could not hear anything else. May be a gas explosion..
no sirens on the explosion I heard. Went to local news - and it was the Pontiac Silverdome being imploded. I live 6 miles away and it sounded like it was just down the street. First thought - terrorist attack. Had not heard this was scheduled for today. That was a Twilight Zone experience...
(12-03-2017 08:39 AM)MotoRocket Wrote: [ -> ]no sirens on the explosion I heard. Went to local news - and it was the Pontiac Silverdome being imploded. I live 6 miles away and it sounded like it was just down the street. First thought - terrorist attack. Had not heard this was scheduled for today. That was a Twilight Zone experience...
Yeah, I knew they were doing that. Toledo's last big win in Detroit vs Cinci was there. If they DID have a terrorist attack on the Silver Dome and blew it up it would have saved a lot of money.
ok - back to my rant on officiating. Should have written these down.
- First interception of Woodside. Ulysses Gilbert clearly held our receiver (McKinley-Lewis) and used the hold to propel himself into the passing lane. Didn't see it happen live, but Woodside never makes that kind of mistake. Saw it on the replay at Ford Field. Replaying it confirmed it. Even the announcers caught that on the replay.
- Holding call on Jeppeson in Q1. Completely bogus. The Akron rusher fell on his azz and Jeppeson got called for a hold. Negated on the next play when Woodside hit Johnson for Toledo's first TD on 1st and 20. Then no late hit in the end zone after the catch was made. Could have been called, but wasn't. That was not a big deal. The hold on the prior play was. We overcame it, but that does not always happen.
- Somewhere in the 1st or early 2nd quarter - Akron player #40 clearly hits Fisher in the face (protected by face mask) with a punch/stiff arm after being blocked by Fisher. Fisher turned around looking for a flag. Nothing.
- The punt by Akron ruled at the 3 yard line. The ball has to cross the end line even if the player is in the end zone. Fine. But the fact remains that while the Akron players foot was on the end line, the ball was trapped between his hand and his hip while he was trying to bat it back in. They had no shot from the end zone line - but it looked clear to me his body was upright and not in full stride. His hip was aligned with his knee and foot at the time. Therefore the ball had to be across the line. Not reversed on replay. Nothing was reversed in our favor the entire game.
- targeting on Adenyi (sp?) I think BVD nailed this one. They reason for the ruling was that he used the crown of the helmut for the tackle. Given the fact you have maybe 1/10th of a second to adjust the hit as the runner turns toward you while be slowed up by another defender, the fact it was a runner, the fact there was no hit to the head or neck, that call only gets made if the refs want to impact the game. Thankfully, we were up by about 31 at the time and I have to believe that was a factor in deciding to make that call. No injury on the play. I do agree that the tackler puts himself in an exposed role for a serious injury on that play. The comment was that "he lowered his head". Well, when your hips, chest, shoulders and legs are lowered to make the tackle, the head comes with those body parts.
- on that same play, we get called for a personal foul on #42. It happened right in front of another official - AND AFTER the Akron player clearly grabbed his facemask and tried to pull him to the ground. The retaliation was to push him. I'm tired of hearing that it's always the second guy that gets caught. It's because the officials somehow think that the first play was ok - and they saw it - but for somebody to retaliate is more egregious and should be called. We end up with 30 yards on penalties and lose our top defensive player for the rest of the game and the first half of our bowl game - and I'm trying to figure out how the hell that happens given what actually happened on that play - which was a tackle for a loss.
There's probably more, but I didn't write them down. I just went back primarily to see if what I thought I saw at the game was right or not. Pretty much what I expected to see. MAC officials suck
(12-03-2017 12:51 AM)ChicagoRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (12-03-2017 12:11 AM)BDV27 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2017 10:34 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote: [ -> ]Definitely didn't agree with the targeting call but then again I'm not all that certain what targeting really is nowadays. Just sucks Ola has to miss the first half of the bowl game, hopefully he was able to return to the field once the game ended to celebrate with his team.
I didn't know you could call targeting when you hit a guy square in the chest on a running play. That pretty much happens every play some where on the feild. Secondly, I didn't realize you can calll targeting when there was no flag called for it on teh feild. I was at the game, and the refs decided to review for targeting once they saw the video reply on the big screen and heard the "oohs and aahs" from the crowd. A complete emabrrassmnet by the MAC to allow that to happen to Toledo's best Defensive player, knowing he will now miss the first half of the bowl game. Game was long over when this play happened. Real smart MAC crew.
The refs on the field cannot call for a targeting review, but the replay officials can even if no flag is thrown. That is the NCAAs attempt to make the game safer.
I’m not sure you can make football “safer”. It is a violent contact sport, with people hitting & being hit every play. The big difference between now and 20 years ago is players are bigger, faster & stronger which means people are going to get hurt.
Disappointed that Ola will miss the 1st half of the bowl game given that targeting call. Won’t debate here whether or not I agreed with the call, but I do think the NCAA needs to do away with that rule, or modify it based on the experiences thus far. The letter of the rule—why Ola was tossed—is supposed to take judgement out of the process, but the unintended consequence is that often the defender is at a disadvantage...they must slow up & maybe miss the tackle altogether, or they must alter their head position, putting them at risk rather than the ball carrier. In this case, Ola had no chance to do anything, really, as the Akron QB spun into HIM.