OK, we lost a rare road exhibition game against a D2 team that historically is quite good in their division, what does that mean?
For a young team, maybe not that much...but for a coach who has not recruited well in terms of freshmen impact players and often our best players are other D1 transfers, I think this means we will once again have another long season.
Why don't we recruit more big men? Going back to the Joplin days it always seems like we want to follow the Kent State format of athletic 6-5 and 6-6 guys...that works wonderfully for their program, it hasn't worked for ours.
I see at best a .500 men's basketball season and quite likely something closer to the .400 mark which is quite sad for a veteran coach who should be at a place now where our team annually wins 20 games in the MAC. While the MAC is good in basketball it's certainly no where near the level it once was from the 1998-2003 days when we had a lot of big name players still in the league.
Credit UF for winning a game they probably circled on their calendar ten seconds after the game was announced; very sad our guys couldn't find a way to win, had 17 turnovers and once again we don't look very deep.
Good luck Coach K, you're going to need it this season.
(10-25-2017 04:06 PM)Nick in Cleveland Wrote: [ -> ]OK, we lost a rare road exhibition game against a D2 team that historically is quite good in their division, what does that mean?
For a young team, maybe not that much...but for a coach who has not recruited well in terms of freshmen impact players and often our best players are other D1 transfers, I think this means we will once again have another long season.
Why don't we recruit more big men? Going back to the Joplin days it always seems like we want to follow the Kent State format of athletic 6-5 and 6-6 guys...that works wonderfully for their program, it hasn't worked for ours.
I see at best a .500 men's basketball season and quite likely something closer to the .400 mark which is quite sad for a veteran coach who should be at a place now where our team annually wins 20 games in the MAC. While the MAC is good in basketball it's certainly no where near the level it once was from the 1998-2003 days when we had a lot of big name players still in the league.
Credit UF for winning a game they probably circled on their calendar ten seconds after the game was announced; very sad our guys couldn't find a way to win, had 17 turnovers and once again we don't look very deep.
Good luck Coach K, you're going to need it this season.
Means nothing other than the fact we weren't physically dominant enough to win on that alone.
Coach K has done a good job identifying good transfers who aren't problematic and want to play team ball. the majority of the recruits are still freshman (4 in this class) and 4 of our 5 starters came here as frosh.
Tough to recruit good big men. There are a lot more 6-5 players out there than 6-10 guys. And the bug guys get better offers per talent. Yeah, I'd like to see us be deeper inside, but when a guy like Willie Jackson-a legit power conf player-is interested in transferring to UT you take him. you don't hold that scholarship hoping to sign a center. same with the spring signings. both alderson and littleson are good recruits. the trend is basketball is to sign guys who are versatile and can score, not position players. many of the top tourney teams do not play a lot of true big men.
the MAC is average again at first glance and we should expect an upper division finish. if not, you do ask questions. however, i'm satisfied with a coach who does things the right way, graduates kids, puts out competitive teams and keeps us in the mix. i do wish we had more of a defensive ethic. however, i will give this team time to prove itself. certainly, there's the players to be solid in the league and with our top junkyard dog type player- w jackson- on hold until mid december I don't think the full personality of the team will take shape until january. the schedule is very solid so just coming into MAC play with a winning record will be an accomplishment.
Nothing. It was an exhibition game.
Same answer as the one to the question “War! Huh! What is it good for?”
It means we are soft, teams that play little D are soft. It means we have a lot of D2 players.
(10-26-2017 12:24 PM)UT! Wrote: [ -> ]It means we are soft, teams that play little D are soft. It means we have a lot of D2 players.
Agreed. Looks to be another long and mediocre year. In other words... Toledo MBB under coach k.
(10-26-2017 12:42 PM)AquaRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (10-26-2017 12:24 PM)UT! Wrote: [ -> ]It means we are soft, teams that play little D are soft. It means we have a lot of D2 players.
Agreed. Looks to be another long and mediocre year. In other words... Toledo MBB under coach k.
And Stan Joplin. Larry Gipson. Jay Eck. Latter day Bob Nichols.
(10-26-2017 03:18 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: [ -> ] (10-26-2017 12:42 PM)AquaRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (10-26-2017 12:24 PM)UT! Wrote: [ -> ]It means we are soft, teams that play little D are soft. It means we have a lot of D2 players.
Agreed. Looks to be another long and mediocre year. In other words... Toledo MBB under coach k.
And Stan Joplin. Larry Gipson. Jay Eck. Latter day Bob Nichols.
After Stan's last year Gene Cross's 2 years and Coach K's first year I don't think we have had a long season since. Though I know a couple of the seasons have been disappointing.
(10-26-2017 08:42 PM)rocketpaul Wrote: [ -> ] (10-26-2017 03:18 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: [ -> ] (10-26-2017 12:42 PM)AquaRocket Wrote: [ -> ] (10-26-2017 12:24 PM)UT! Wrote: [ -> ]It means we are soft, teams that play little D are soft. It means we have a lot of D2 players.
Agreed. Looks to be another long and mediocre year. In other words... Toledo MBB under coach k.
And Stan Joplin. Larry Gipson. Jay Eck. Latter day Bob Nichols.
After Stan's last year Gene Cross's 2 years and Coach K's first year I don't think we have had a long season since. Though I know a couple of the seasons have been disappointing.
If the lack of a "long" season is the definition of success then I guess that our MBB program is doing just fine. Personally, I believe that the university can and should do much better.
I'll keep saying it - unless the current coach begins to teach his teams to play with passion and hustle - especially on defense, this is all we can ever expect from the men's team. I find it hard to believe it is that difficult to find a rock solid coach to come to Toledo that can win at least one championship. I keep reminding myself it took John Wooden 16 years to get his first NCAA championship at UCLA, then he won it 9 of the next 10 years. If Kowalczyk can do that with the MAC title - I'll gladly shut up about it. The sad thing is, he's miles ahead of the dude he replaced - who we keep reminding ourselves has moved on.
Defense, defense, defense. Coack K's teams just don't play good defense and it has cost us plenty.
(10-27-2017 09:15 PM)MotoRocket Wrote: [ -> ]I'll keep saying it - unless the current coach begins to teach his teams to play with passion and hustle - especially on defense, this is all we can ever expect from the men's team. I find it hard to believe it is that difficult to find a rock solid coach to come to Toledo that can win at least one championship. I keep reminding myself it took John Wooden 16 years to get his first NCAA championship at UCLA, then he won it 9 of the next 10 years. If Kowalczyk can do that with the MAC title - I'll gladly shut up about it. The sad thing is, he's miles ahead of the dude he replaced - who we keep reminding ourselves has moved on.
firing coaches isn't always the path to success. UT went backwards with most of it's firings over the past 40 years. Only the Cross (hissssss) firing meant improvement and that was a no-brainer. Do you fire the guy who rebuilt a mess of a program into a MAC champion because he hasn't made it to the dance? Do you fire a guy whose players get academic awards and graduate and rarely get caught up in BS in the still simmering aftermath of a big gambling scandal? Do you fire an excellent offensive coach because his teams are usually mediocre on D? We are not Dayton or Butler or Wichita State, mid major schools with special basketball identities that can lure better than expected coaches. Yeah, Toledo is a good MAC job but a good MAC job doesn't appeal to a big time coach.
(10-27-2017 11:02 PM)pono Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017 09:15 PM)MotoRocket Wrote: [ -> ]I'll keep saying it - unless the current coach begins to teach his teams to play with passion and hustle - especially on defense, this is all we can ever expect from the men's team. I find it hard to believe it is that difficult to find a rock solid coach to come to Toledo that can win at least one championship. I keep reminding myself it took John Wooden 16 years to get his first NCAA championship at UCLA, then he won it 9 of the next 10 years. If Kowalczyk can do that with the MAC title - I'll gladly shut up about it. The sad thing is, he's miles ahead of the dude he replaced - who we keep reminding ourselves has moved on.
firing coaches isn't always the path to success. UT went backwards with most of it's firings over the past 40 years. Only the Cross (hissssss) firing meant improvement and that was a no-brainer. Do you fire the guy who rebuilt a mess of a program into a MAC champion because he hasn't made it to the dance? Do you fire a guy whose players get academic awards and graduate and rarely get caught up in BS in the still simmering aftermath of a big gambling scandal? Do you fire an excellent offensive coach because his teams are usually mediocre on D? We are not Dayton or Butler or Wichita State, mid major schools with special basketball identities that can lure better than expected coaches. Yeah, Toledo is a good MAC job but a good MAC job doesn't appeal to a big time coach.
If TK’s record in the MAC is no better than .500 over the remaining seasons in hthis s contract, then I would be in favor of not renewing his contract and trying someone new. I think these next 2 seasons are critical to his survival.
With its current cost-cutting president, I can't imagine the university firing TK with time still left on his contract unless things got a lot worse. I agree with bcunn, though, that there should be no contract extension or renewal unless the program shows improvement. My reasoning isn't the failure to get to the NCAA tournament, but rather that the program has slid backward into mediocrity and seems poised to remain there. If you look around the league, I think you'll find only a few coaches with more seniority than TK. Western Michigan is the only one that comes immediately to mind. In the MAC, if a coach doesn't do well enough to move up, he usually gets shown the door within 6-7 years.
(10-28-2017 05:46 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017 11:02 PM)pono Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2017 09:15 PM)MotoRocket Wrote: [ -> ]I'll keep saying it - unless the current coach begins to teach his teams to play with passion and hustle - especially on defense, this is all we can ever expect from the men's team. I find it hard to believe it is that difficult to find a rock solid coach to come to Toledo that can win at least one championship. I keep reminding myself it took John Wooden 16 years to get his first NCAA championship at UCLA, then he won it 9 of the next 10 years. If Kowalczyk can do that with the MAC title - I'll gladly shut up about it. The sad thing is, he's miles ahead of the dude he replaced - who we keep reminding ourselves has moved on.
firing coaches isn't always the path to success. UT went backwards with most of it's firings over the past 40 years. Only the Cross (hissssss) firing meant improvement and that was a no-brainer. Do you fire the guy who rebuilt a mess of a program into a MAC champion because he hasn't made it to the dance? Do you fire a guy whose players get academic awards and graduate and rarely get caught up in BS in the still simmering aftermath of a big gambling scandal? Do you fire an excellent offensive coach because his teams are usually mediocre on D? We are not Dayton or Butler or Wichita State, mid major schools with special basketball identities that can lure better than expected coaches. Yeah, Toledo is a good MAC job but a good MAC job doesn't appeal to a big time coach.
If TK’s record in the MAC is no better than .500 over the remaining seasons in hthis s contract, then I would be in favor of not renewing his contract and trying someone new. I think these next 2 seasons are critical to his survival.
We have put a lot of money into facilities including new meeting rooms and coaches' offices recently, but still our recruiting is very average. I know that good MAC coaches don't stay long, but this is a good job. I think O'Brien no longer has it as he approaches retirement age. No regular season MAC titles for any sport in two years and seems like nobody cares.
LIKE CHUCK DALY SAID TO DUKE'S COACH K AFTER THE DREAM TEAM LOST TO THE COLLEGE ALL STARS, "I THINK WERE GOING TO BE OK".
(10-25-2017 05:27 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing. It was an exhibition game.
I tmean we are a far cry from a D1 program in basketball. Sad state in my opinion.
(10-28-2017 09:23 AM)BDV27 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-25-2017 05:27 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing. It was an exhibition game.
I tmean we are a far cry from a D1 program in basketball. Sad state in my opinion.
Rockets will finish top 3 in the MAC.
(10-28-2017 09:23 AM)BDV27 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-25-2017 05:27 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing. It was an exhibition game.
I tmean we are a far cry from a D1 program in basketball. Sad state in my opinion.
Again: Findlay beat OSU in 2007. OSU was the Number 1 Team in final polls and a Final Four Team. We’re they nowhere near a D1 program? MSU lost a pre-season to GVSU that year as well and got votes for Top 25 in the final poll. This means nothing. Games that mean SOMETHING start next week.
(10-28-2017 10:04 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: [ -> ]Again: Findlay beat OSU in 2007. OSU was the Number 1 Team in final polls and a Final Four Team. We’re they nowhere near a D1 program? MSU lost a pre-season to GVSU that year as well and got votes for Top 25 in the final poll. This means nothing. Games that mean SOMETHING start next week.
Losing to Findlay doesn't seem like a good sign, but you make good points. Coach K might be experimenting with some things, trying to figure out who can play, where they are on defense, etc. Technically, the outcome counts for nothing. But, you'd like the think we would be strong enough to beat Findlay on any day, although it was close.