CSNbbs

And truly, I am just gobsmacked that the pitchforks and torches aren't out by now, and that there are people still asking for patience. Patience for what? Bailiff has been here over a decade and certainly isn't going to need to apply for food stamps when he's out of a job. My god.

It has actually reached the point where pitchforks and torches are totally justifiable, if only to silence the remaining apologists. There is no room for any diplomacy now, because that route has been rendered impotent by those who have exploited it in what I can only describe as bad faith.

I hope there is at least one influential person who is going to start pounding his or her fists on the table soon, vehemently demanding accountability. This has reached absurd levels of rot. Nothing else at Rice would be allowed to fall into this degree of disrepair without being jettisoned completely.

(10-10-2017 12:35 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: [ -> ]The key to defensive strategy here is to pick your poison. If you can't ever get any pressure, you will ultimately get beat deep and give up the quick disheartening score, especially on 3rd and long. If you give up the underneath routes, you make a college team run 8+ plays without penalties or turnovers which some can and some can't do. IMO, that's a better bet... so you need to ULTIMATELY get someone home/force a throw. Delayed and unexpected blitzes (from unusual positions after the OL 'turn') is how I'd do it. Play more zone in the middle of the field (man in the red zone) and if you're having success ultimately getting home, start jumping those intermediate routes.
What we've done in years past is put our DBs on islands and then not gotten home, so QBs could simply wait for their guys to get open... which even against the best guys, they ultimately will.

My problem with playing "bend but don't break" defense is that we've tended to turn it into "bend until we break." We don't contest enough to make it difficult for anyone to run those 8+ successful plays, and to compound things, we usually suffer a major breakdown before they hit 8 plays.

I think our biggest problem is a lack of speed, for several reasons:
1) Recruiting limitations
2) Emphasis on size rather than strength
3) Slow read and react speeds

Most of you probably know that I am an admirer of the work that Alex Grinch has done at Wazzu (anybody who can build a competent defense working for Mike Leach has my respect). They certainly have more talent than we do, but comparing their talent to PAC-12 opponents is probably not much different from comparing ours to CUSA. They are extremely small on defense, but have great speed and are very active, moving around a lot and forcing the action. I'd like to see more of that approach.

Although I really don't like the way we ran the 4-2-5, I do like the way TCU runs it. They basically have 4 lineman tie things up in the front, and 7 fast people (including the LBs) run around and make plays behind them. Watching TCU, you really get the feeling that their DBs run 20 yards before our DBs take their first step. I'm amazed at how they coordinate all that movement, but they make it work pretty effectively.

Quote:I'd also practice with my WR and DBs a whole lot more 'jump balls'. Put them on the basketball court and tell them to get the rebounds. Put on soft helmets and masks and let them get after it hard. Maybe we do that, but i haven't seen that sort of attitude on either side of the ball. What I've seen most often makes it look like we've practiced letting the ball come to us... and 'players' make plays in front of us. I can't put that on the coaches because I doubt they teach them to lay back, but I CAN put not addressing it on them. The basketball court is a good place to do it because while certainly you can still get hurt, you aren't usually running at full speed and then battling for the rebound.
FTR, that would also work on learning better body positioning/blocking people off from the ball.... slow down and then at the last minute, extend to create the space to catch the ball. Sure, they may run you over, but you'll sometimes get that call as well.

I agree totally with the technique work. I want to see our DB's break on the ball instead of standing around watching. That's part technique, and part philosophy.

In the old days we had multi-sport players. King Hill played football, basketball and golf. There was limited suibstitution so he played both QB and defensive back. He had more playing time than Frank Ryan because Hill was better at defense.

(10-10-2017 02:51 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-10-2017 12:35 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: [ -> ]The key to defensive strategy here is to pick your poison. If you can't ever get any pressure, you will ultimately get beat deep and give up the quick disheartening score, especially on 3rd and long. If you give up the underneath routes, you make a college team run 8+ plays without penalties or turnovers which some can and some can't do. IMO, that's a better bet... so you need to ULTIMATELY get someone home/force a throw. Delayed and unexpected blitzes (from unusual positions after the OL 'turn') is how I'd do it. Play more zone in the middle of the field (man in the red zone) and if you're having success ultimately getting home, start jumping those intermediate routes.
What we've done in years past is put our DBs on islands and then not gotten home, so QBs could simply wait for their guys to get open... which even against the best guys, they ultimately will.

My problem with playing "bend but don't break" defense is that we've tended to turn it into "bend until we break." We don't contest enough to make it difficult for anyone to run those 8+ successful plays, and to compound things, we usually suffer a major breakdown before they hit 8 plays.

I think our biggest problem is a lack of speed, for several reasons:
1) Recruiting limitations
2) Emphasis on size rather than strength
3) Slow read and react speeds

Most of you probably know that I am an admirer of the work that Alex Grinch has done at Wazzu (anybody who can build a competent defense working for Mike Leach has my respect). They certainly have more talent than we do, but comparing their talent to PAC-12 opponents is probably not much different from comparing ours to CUSA. They are extremely small on defense, but have great speed and are very active, moving around a lot and forcing the action. I'd like to see more of that approach.

Although I really don't like the way we ran the 4-2-5, I do like the way TCU runs it. They basically have 4 lineman tie things up in the front, and 7 fast people (including the LBs) run around and make plays behind them. Watching TCU, you really get the feeling that their DBs run 20 yards before our DBs take their first step. I'm amazed at how they coordinate all that movement, but they make it work pretty effectively.

Quote:I'd also practice with my WR and DBs a whole lot more 'jump balls'. Put them on the basketball court and tell them to get the rebounds. Put on soft helmets and masks and let them get after it hard. Maybe we do that, but i haven't seen that sort of attitude on either side of the ball. What I've seen most often makes it look like we've practiced letting the ball come to us... and 'players' make plays in front of us. I can't put that on the coaches because I doubt they teach them to lay back, but I CAN put not addressing it on them. The basketball court is a good place to do it because while certainly you can still get hurt, you aren't usually running at full speed and then battling for the rebound.
FTR, that would also work on learning better body positioning/blocking people off from the ball.... slow down and then at the last minute, extend to create the space to catch the ball. Sure, they may run you over, but you'll sometimes get that call as well.

I agree totally with the technique work. I want to see our DB's break on the ball instead of standing around watching. That's part technique, and part philosophy.

implicit in my 'theory' was that you had to be disciplined. 'keeping everything in front of you' only works if you literally keep everything in front of you. It becomes a question of which team can have more 8+ play drives without those errors. Be disciplined and keep them in front of you on defense.... dial it up in the red zone and 'get home' in reasonable time on 3rd and long forcing the shorter throw (what teams do to us routinely) and then make the play in front of you. Sure, you'll give up yards and some 3rd and longs.... but as long as you're eventually making them punt or go for 3, that's a 'win'.

On offense, be disciplined, catch the ball and don't make stupid penalties. 'score' on those 8+ play drives.

Do this and you will be 'in' every game. They might get 7 to your 3, but 21-9 with 6-8 long drives by both teams is still a ballgame and while you've competed, you've lost every time. 35-3 because you weren't disciplined on either side of the ball and gave up quick scores after going 3 and out twice is a blow-out.

(10-13-2017 10:34 AM)Hambone10 Wrote: [ -> ]implicit in my 'theory' was that you had to be disciplined. 'keeping everything in front of you' only works if you literally keep everything in front of you. It becomes a question of which team can have more 8+ play drives without those errors. Be disciplined and keep them in front of you on defense.... dial it up in the red zone and 'get home' in reasonable time on 3rd and long forcing the shorter throw (what teams do to us routinely) and then make the play in front of you. Sure, you'll give up yards and some 3rd and longs.... but as long as you're eventually making them punt or go for 3, that's a 'win'.
On offense, be disciplined, catch the ball and don't make stupid penalties. 'score' on those 8+ play drives.
Do this and you will be 'in' every game. They might get 7 to your 3, but 21-9 with 6-8 long drives by both teams is still a ballgame and while you've competed, you've lost every time. 35-3 because you weren't disciplined on either side of the ball and gave up quick scores after going 3 and out twice is a blow-out.

Don't see anything there to disagree with. My point is that we are not disciplined and do not execute well, so this approach does not work for us.

Not C-USA, but Georgia Southern has fired its coach 18 games into his coaching tenure (went 5-7 last year and started this season 0-6).

(10-22-2017 10:21 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: [ -> ]Not C-USA, but Georgia Southern has fired its coach 18 games into his coaching tenure (went 5-7 last year and started this season 0-6).

That's what happens when your program has enough fans that give a $h!t.

If you've ever been to Statesboro, you'd know that EVERYTHING in that town is GSU.

(10-22-2017 10:25 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-22-2017 10:21 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: [ -> ]Not C-USA, but Georgia Southern has fired its coach 18 games into his coaching tenure (went 5-7 last year and started this season 0-6).

That's what happens when your program has enough fans that give a $h!t.

If you've ever been to Statesboro, you'd know that EVERYTHING in that town is GSU.

Good point. Most people probably don't care who's coach of the Rice football team.

(10-22-2017 10:21 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: [ -> ]Not C-USA, but Georgia Southern has fired its coach 18 games into his coaching tenure (went 5-7 last year and started this season 0-6).

yeah, but we won a game!

I was conversing with a friend and they brought up UCF. UCF went to a BCS bowl in 2013 (won the Fiesta Bowl), beating Baylor, finishing the season at 12-1 and ranked #12 in the country. 2014, they went 9-4, co-won the AAC and made a bowl.

2015, they started the season 0-8 and George O'Leary (12th season) resigned. Two years later they are ranked number 17 in the country and are undefeated.

There may be a lesson we can learn here, assuming we are open to learning a lesson, that is.

(10-23-2017 01:12 AM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]I was conversing with a friend and they brought up UCF. UCF went to a BCS bowl in 2013 (won the Fiesta Bowl), beating Baylor, finishing the season at 12-1 and ranked #12 in the country. 2014, they went 9-4, co-won the AAC and made a bowl.

2015, they started the season 0-8 and George O'Leary (12th season) resigned. Two years later they are ranked number 17 in the country and are undefeated.

There may be a lesson we can learn here, assuming we are open to learning a lesson, that is.

UCF’s first bad season under O’Leary was not 2015. He basically wobbled up and down, which certainly would not have gotten your or a lot people’s approvals on this board.

O’Leary went: 0-11, 8-5, 4-8, 10-4 (CUSA champs, L to Miss State in Liberty Bowl), 4-8, 8-5, 11-3 (CUSA champs, W against Georgia in Liberty Bowl), 5-7, 10-4, 12-1 (Fiesta Bowl), 9-4, then 0-8.

He was 22-28 through 4 years, or 26-36 through 5 years, or 34-41 through 6 years, certainly records that would have gotten him fired at a larger schools. It took him 7 years to climb above .500 (45-44) and then he dropped below .500 again in year 8 (50-51). For him in year 8, which was a year after a CUSA championship and after a down year, and you miss the twin year climb to the Fiesta Bowl.

Great example!

(10-23-2017 06:54 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2017 01:12 AM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]I was conversing with a friend and they brought up UCF. UCF went to a BCS bowl in 2013 (won the Fiesta Bowl), beating Baylor, finishing the season at 12-1 and ranked #12 in the country. 2014, they went 9-4, co-won the AAC and made a bowl.

2015, they started the season 0-8 and George O'Leary (12th season) resigned. Two years later they are ranked number 17 in the country and are undefeated.

There may be a lesson we can learn here, assuming we are open to learning a lesson, that is.

UCF’s first bad season under O’Leary was not 2015. He basically wobbled up and down, which certainly would not have gotten your or a lot people’s approvals on this board.

O’Leary went: 0-11, 8-5, 4-8, 10-4 (CUSA champs, L to Miss State in Liberty Bowl), 4-8, 8-5, 11-3 (CUSA champs, W against Georgia in Liberty Bowl), 5-7, 10-4, 12-1 (Fiesta Bowl), 9-4, then 0-8.

He was 22-28 through 4 years, or 26-36 through 5 years, or 34-41 through 6 years, certainly records that would have gotten him fired at a larger schools. It took him 7 years to climb above .500 (45-44) and then he dropped below .500 again in year 8 (50-51). For him in year 8, which was a year after a CUSA championship and after a down year, and you miss the twin year climb to the Fiesta Bowl.

Great example!

Exactly the point that was being made!

Great comprehension!

(10-23-2017 01:12 AM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]I was conversing with a friend and they brought up UCF. UCF went to a BCS bowl in 2013 (won the Fiesta Bowl), beating Baylor, finishing the season at 12-1 and ranked #12 in the country. 2014, they went 9-4, co-won the AAC and made a bowl.

2015, they started the season 0-8 and George O'Leary (12th season) resigned. Two years later they are ranked number 17 in the country and are undefeated.

There may be a lesson we can learn here, assuming we are open to learning a lesson, that is.

UCF is one of the largest public universities in the nation. I'm sure they spend much more on football and care much more about athletics in general than Rice. Football is a central part of that school's culture. It's going to take more than a coaching change for things to turn Rice's fortunes for the long term, if that's the point you're trying to make.

(10-23-2017 08:54 AM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2017 06:54 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2017 01:12 AM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]I was conversing with a friend and they brought up UCF. UCF went to a BCS bowl in 2013 (won the Fiesta Bowl), beating Baylor, finishing the season at 12-1 and ranked #12 in the country. 2014, they went 9-4, co-won the AAC and made a bowl.

2015, they started the season 0-8 and George O'Leary (12th season) resigned. Two years later they are ranked number 17 in the country and are undefeated.

There may be a lesson we can learn here, assuming we are open to learning a lesson, that is.

UCF’s first bad season under O’Leary was not 2015. He basically wobbled up and down, which certainly would not have gotten your or a lot people’s approvals on this board.

O’Leary went: 0-11, 8-5, 4-8, 10-4 (CUSA champs, L to Miss State in Liberty Bowl), 4-8, 8-5, 11-3 (CUSA champs, W against Georgia in Liberty Bowl), 5-7, 10-4, 12-1 (Fiesta Bowl), 9-4, then 0-8.

He was 22-28 through 4 years, or 26-36 through 5 years, or 34-41 through 6 years, certainly records that would have gotten him fired at a larger schools. It took him 7 years to climb above .500 (45-44) and then he dropped below .500 again in year 8 (50-51). For him in year 8, which was a year after a CUSA championship and after a down year, and you miss the twin year climb to the Fiesta Bowl.

Great example!

Exactly the point that was being made!

Great comprehension!

So you’re saying they should have fired him before the Fiesta Bowl, and potentially ruined that opportunity which likely spring boarded them into the current situation? UCF could have canned him after the 5-7 season after the championship, but they made the decision to retain him and it worked out well for them.

I think the lesson learned from UCF is that sometimes it makes sense to keep a coach around and sometimes it doesn’t - and there are a lot of factors to confuse.

I am not sure if this has been discussed, but...

Now that the recruiting calendar allows for an early signing date in December, Rice/JK needs to make the Bailiff decision ASAP and start looking for a coach or announce his extension.

I doubt Rice does either and Bailiff "resigns" at the end of the season, hurting the December signing period, and a coach isn't hired until mid-December.

(10-24-2017 03:33 PM)WIowl Wrote: [ -> ]I am not sure if this has been discussed, but...

Now that the recruiting calendar allows for an early signing date in December, Rice/JK needs to make the Bailiff decision ASAP and start looking for a coach or announce his extension.

I doubt Rice does either and Bailiff "resigns" at the end of the season, hurting the December signing period, and a coach isn't hired until mid-December.

I'd be shocked if this isn't what happens, which is really sad.

(10-24-2017 03:33 PM)WIowl Wrote: [ -> ]I am not sure if this has been discussed, but...

Now that the recruiting calendar allows for an early signing date in December, Rice/JK needs to make the Bailiff decision ASAP and start looking for a coach or announce his extension.

I doubt Rice does either and Bailiff "resigns" at the end of the season, hurting the December signing period, and a coach isn't hired until mid-December.

Sadly, I think this is spot on. And we'll probably celebrate the "retirement" with more quotes about meaningless bowls and "unprecedented success". All while the program finally flatlines...

(10-24-2017 05:39 PM)Antarius Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-24-2017 03:33 PM)WIowl Wrote: [ -> ]I am not sure if this has been discussed, but...

Now that the recruiting calendar allows for an early signing date in December, Rice/JK needs to make the Bailiff decision ASAP and start looking for a coach or announce his extension.

I doubt Rice does either and Bailiff "resigns" at the end of the season, hurting the December signing period, and a coach isn't hired until mid-December.

Sadly, I think this is spot on. And we'll probably celebrate the "retirement" with more quotes about meaningless bowls and "unprecedented success". All while the program finally flatlines...

What would your athletic department do instead, burn his effigy and dance around it?

(10-24-2017 05:48 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]What would your athletic department do instead, burn his effigy and dance around it?

Fire him now, issue a press release thanking him for his service at Rice, make it clear in aforementioned press release that performance matters and thus we have parted ways, promote Stewart to interim HC, start the search ASAP.

Normal stuff that normal programs/companies/organizations do.

here - typed it up an example too.

Quote:After reviewing this season's performance, Rice University has decided to part ways with Head Coach David Bailiff. We had high expectations coming into this season with the changes to our staff and the renewed emphasis on our University wide goal of Top 25 performances in all sports. Unfortunately,this season has not met our agreed upon expectations and we have elected that it is in the best interest of the program to move in a different direction.

We thank David Bailiff for his 10 years of service to Rice Football program and the University as a whole and wish him the best in all future endeavors.