CSNbbs

Yep.

Somebody bout to get fired at that company.

When I asked what wind speed had the UAB pavilion been designed to withstand, I was criticized for not having enough faith in those who designed and built it. Just asking the question was attacked.

Now we see a pavilion built on a coastal location prone to occasional tropical storms, that failed when encountering 50 mph winds. As with the I-35W bridge in Minn., the authorities had great faith in the architects and contractors who built the structure. What was the source of this "inadequate bracing" , now so obvious that we can all see the problem without a degree in civil engineering? As Jackie Gleason once said, "You don't have to be Alexander Bell to pick up a phone and know it's dead".

Among the questions facing USA are Who is responsible for this debacle? Did the architect design the "inadequate bracing" or did the contractor (perhaps seeking greater profit) take short cuts in building figuring to get away with it since everyone had faith in the construction process. There could have been players or just students under it when it collapsed. We could then have seen a scene in Mobile equivalent to the Mexico City school pictures where they are trying to save a little girl buried under rubble.

I was interesting in hearing from our experts, what would you gain by not bracing the facility properly?

Does it allow it to be build faster, save money, etc.?

Is the risks of this happening smaller than the risk of doing it?

1. The USA facility was not complete when the collapse occurred. It had no roof at the time and, as the record shows, inadequate bracing needed to prevent a collapse DURING the construction process.

2. The UAB facility is complete. It didn't collapse during construction. It has already withstood heavy wind and rain. It's still standing. End of story.

(09-21-2017 01:04 PM)UABslant Wrote: [ -> ]End of story.

I doubt it. Not when certain posters have an obsession.

I won't even dignify the question with an answer.

That's the Alabama way -- Don't bother with the answer, just have blind faith that the answer does not matter.

BTW - Don't forget to vote in the runoff election next week. It is likely that one of these two veteran Montgomery Swamp Monsters will be our US Senator.

Well, the engineer most likely did not design the building. That was delegated to the low bidder on the pre engineered metal building company.

They rarely do calcs on a partially built structure. The calcs are typically required on a finished structure.

The point of a pre engineered metal building to to get rid of as much steel as possible. So to achieve the structural performance they require a lot of bracing and diaphragm action from the roofing and siding.

The fault in my opinion is on the contractor for not putting up enough temporary shoring.

Not a construction engineer but the article clearly states what the issues were.

Quote:Approximately one-sixth of the diagonal rod bracing in the sidewalls and roof framing was installed, which is noted in the plans as being a component of the, 'main wind force resisting system.' The absence of such bracing is considered an installation error.

The plans had adequate bracing, they were never installed. To me it’s simple. Had the plan been followed, the facility would be still standing.

The real question is, will the stadium certificates from the collapsed building be valid when they rebuild it?

(09-21-2017 03:24 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: [ -> ]That's the Alabama way -- Don't bother with the answer, just have blind faith that the answer does not matter.

BTW - Don't forget to vote in the runoff election next week. It is likely that one of these two veteran Montgomery Swamp Monsters will be our US Senator.

The answer is simple you just won't acknowledge it exists. Plans were in place and weren't followed. The structure collapsed because of this.

Our facility was designed to sustain wind and rain without a doubt, and what happened at USA has nothing to do with our facility.

(09-22-2017 08:59 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote: [ -> ]The real question is, will the stadium certificates from the collapsed building be valid when they rebuild it?

(09-21-2017 03:24 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: [ -> ]That's the Alabama way -- Don't bother with the answer, just have blind faith that the answer does not matter.

BTW - Don't forget to vote in the runoff election next week. It is likely that one of these two veteran Montgomery Swamp Monsters will be our US Senator.

BNB, you do understand that Attalla is a project manager who builds things like stadiums, right? And that he walked our IPF at various stages of construction and saw how it was being done?

He might know a little something about what he's talking about here. Just a thought.

(09-21-2017 06:20 PM)Dragonlair2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, the engineer most likely did not design the building. That was delegated to the low bidder on the pre engineered metal building company.

They rarely do calcs on a partially built structure. The calcs are typically required on a finished structure.

The point of a pre engineered metal building to to get rid of as much steel as possible. So to achieve the structural performance they require a lot of bracing and diaphragm action from the roofing and siding.

The fault in my opinion is on the contractor for not putting up enough temporary shoring.

That sounds like a very reasonable conjecture.

Which brings me back to my question earlier in the thread -
What would be gained by half-a$$ing the bracing while it was under construction?
Does it save money or time?
Someone made the call to do it & probably needs to be held accountable for the decision.

Is this a normal practice by some that ended up costing this construction?

(09-22-2017 11:35 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 03:24 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: [ -> ]That's the Alabama way -- Don't bother with the answer, just have blind faith that the answer does not matter.

BTW - Don't forget to vote in the runoff election next week. It is likely that one of these two veteran Montgomery Swamp Monsters will be our US Senator.

BNB, you do understand that Attalla is a project manager who builds things like stadiums, right? And that he walked our IPF at various stages of construction and saw how it was being done?

He might know a little something about what he's talking about here. Just a thought.

Yes, I do know and respect the construction expertise of Attalla from his posts on such subjects. You should recall that what I did was ASK A QUESTION as to what wind speed the UAB (now Legacy Pavilion) was rated to withstand. No one has answered my question, but bitterly decried that I dared to ask it. In light of the USA pavilion experience, it is not a terrible question to ask.

(09-22-2017 01:22 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, I do know and respect the construction expertise of Attalla from his posts on such subjects. You should recall that what I did was ASK A QUESTION as to what wind speed the UAB (now Legacy Pavilion) was rated to withstand. No one has answered my question, but bitterly decried that I dared to ask it. In light of the USA pavilion experience, it is not a terrible question to ask.

Short answer: no one knows, or they would have answered.

Logical answer: We have building codes in the US that make sure buildings like this are safe. So yes, your concern seems unwarranted considering you are comparing an unfinished structure vs a finished structure.

(09-22-2017 01:22 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-22-2017 11:35 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2017 03:24 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote: [ -> ]That's the Alabama way -- Don't bother with the answer, just have blind faith that the answer does not matter.

BTW - Don't forget to vote in the runoff election next week. It is likely that one of these two veteran Montgomery Swamp Monsters will be our US Senator.

BNB, you do understand that Attalla is a project manager who builds things like stadiums, right? And that he walked our IPF at various stages of construction and saw how it was being done?

He might know a little something about what he's talking about here. Just a thought.

Yes, I do know and respect the construction expertise of Attalla from his posts on such subjects. You should recall that what I did was ASK A QUESTION as to what wind speed the UAB (now Legacy Pavilion) was rated to withstand. No one has answered my question, but bitterly decried that I dared to ask it. In light of the USA pavilion experience, it is not a terrible question to ask.

It depends on how it is rated for occupancy I assume it's not a category 1 as that is warehouse storage space.

My guess is it is a category II-IV. Which current ASCE7-10 code requires 115 MPH.