The NCAA's academic requirements for initial eligibility aren't very challenging, even for an average student. I would imagine that most athletes could, with a little planning, complete them in three years. I suspect the reason that more of them don't is that they simply aren't talented enough to compete at the college level without the additional year of preparation.
I don't think there is anything shady at all going on here. The lesson all aspiring professional athletes have learned is that, if you have what it takes athletically, the faster you get to your second contract the better off you will be financially - by a lot. Until that changes through collective bargaining, this will only become a more frequent occurrence.
(08-16-2017 12:16 AM)megadrone Wrote: [ -> ]I was mostly referring to a post talking about a student making up a year -- an entire academic year, not just one class -- in summer school. That would be a tall order. One or two classes, sure, but the requirements for a whole year would have been tough.
Yep, hear you loud and clear. Don't think that would actually be possible, based on what you describe. So think that the situation highlighted by OP must've actually been situation where he only needed a class or two to meet the minimum requirements for graduating and clearing the NCAA clearinghouse (or whatever they call it these days).
(08-16-2017 08:23 AM)ken d Wrote: [ -> ]The NCAA's academic requirements for initial eligibility aren't very challenging, even for an average student. I would imagine that most athletes could, with a little planning, complete them in three years. I suspect the reason that more of them don't is that they simply aren't talented enough to compete at the college level without the additional year of preparation.
I don't think there is anything shady at all going on here. The lesson all aspiring professional athletes have learned is that, if you have what it takes athletically, the faster you get to your second contract the better off you will be financially - by a lot. Until that changes through collective bargaining, this will only become a more frequent occurrence.
That's an interesting point, that I just wouldn't know about for basketball.
There are definitely high school seniors who can help a high level college program like Duke (or any program) directly out of high school, at age 18. Would you say that most of such players could just as well help, at more or less the same level, after their junior year? In other words, does the senior year of high school highly contribute to gaining additional skill and ability? Honest question, because I have no idea in basketball.
Don't think this really has any chance of applying to football.
This is no different than football players graduating at semester to enroll for spring classes. Summer school basically just replaces the fall semester.
Yes, you're right. Some do graduate high school a semester early so they can enroll in time for spring practice.
The question is if we'd ever see a player graduate high school a full year early so he could enroll in time for fall practice, after his junior year of high school?? That would seem like a huge stretch for most .... but probably not impossible.
(08-16-2017 11:22 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, you're right. Some do graduate high school a semester early so they can enroll in time for spring practice.
The question is if we'd ever see a player graduate high school a full year early so he could enroll in time for fall practice, after his junior year of high school?? That would seem like a huge stretch for most .... but probably not impossible.
It's not
http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stor...07aaf.html
Quote: Clemson's Offensive Line Coach Brad Scott first heard about Richardson during a phone call from Bob Hayes, the head coach at Wando High School. Hayes had a big offensive lineman who was going to graduate a year early, and he suggested that Scott take a look at him. A three-year starter at Wando High, he had an 85-percent grade as a senior, totaling 15 knockdowns and 16 pancake blocks. Seeing a raw but extremely athletic player on tape, Scott was quick to offer Richardson a scholarship.
"I thought this was the best opportunity for me to come in and play, and actually win," reflected Richardson on his selection of Clemson. "I decided to commit after making my visit. The players on the team treated me as a friend, and that really meant a lot to me."
Richardson would become the first-ever Tiger football recruit to finish high school in only three years. Little did Clemson coaches realize at the time was that he would also start eight games as a true-freshman, the most in school history by a first-year freshman offensive lineman. Most offensive linemen are expected to go through a year of conditioning and development before seeing large amounts of playing time, but by overcoming doubts about his age and demonstrating his pure athleticism, Richardson made an early impact on the offensive line.
He graduated from Clemson after three years as well.
Thanks for sharing.
Would wonder if he was 17 during his first fall camp, or if he was perhaps held back a year from starting school? Would then also wonder if the NCAA has a hard age minimum for eligibility and/or to be considered for the clearinghouse. Don't think we want to see 16 year olds playing college athletics .....
(08-16-2017 12:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for sharing.
Would wonder if he was 17 during his first fall camp, or if he was perhaps held back a year from starting school? Would then also wonder if the NCAA has a hard age minimum for eligibility and/or to be considered for the clearinghouse. Don't think we want to see 16 year olds playing college athletics .....
He had turned 17 in the May preceding his enrollment.
If physically able to hold their own, and not be a cause for safety concern, and if legitimately completing high school academic requirements ... then I see no problem with 17 year olds participating in college athletics.
Think that should be pretty close to the floor though ...
The NBA has mixed feelings on it. They want guys to be more mature than HS kids coming into the league, but they also think college does a terrible job of teaching the players to be ready for the NBA. And this comment includes Arizona, UK, KU, Duke, and UCLA (hum add USC and you have Bagley's list).
This is why the rookie scale is so much lower. They are not drafting guys ready to be stars their first year like Bird, Magic and Jordan were. Even the best take a couple years to find their feet (look at Aaron Gordon's 3rd year production compared to his first two). The G League is becoming increasingly important because even after college, the majority of players even in the first round are not NBA ready, and they need to face better competition than they did in college. Nobody watches the minor league like college, but the players are more of a cream of the crop, and this forces them to work on aspects of the game they need to contribute.
Bagley III is a complete joke of a student. It will be interesting to see how Duke keeps him eligible and builds a transcript to claim he leaves in good standing.
(08-16-2017 12:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: [ -> ]This is why the rookie scale is so much lower. They are not drafting guys ready to be stars their first year like Bird, Magic and Jordan were. Even the best take a couple years to find their feet (look at Aaron Gordon's 3rd year production compared to his first two). The G League is becoming increasingly important because even after college, the majority of players even in the first round are not NBA ready, and they need to face better competition than they did in college. Nobody watches the minor league like college, but the players are more of a cream of the crop, and this forces them to work on aspects of the game they need to contribute.
Honest question: how is it that minor leagues have so much higher competition than top level college teams? Don't most of the minor league players come from college themselves? How are they getting so much better at the game in the minor leagues, if they're coming from the exact same place (college)?
(08-16-2017 12:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: [ -> ]Bagley III is a complete joke of a student. It will be interesting to see how Duke keeps him eligible and builds a transcript to claim he leaves in good standing.
Even MIT and Stanford have "easy" classes, that count for credit. As far as the NCAA is concern, it only cares about degree progress in the sense of credits earned.
(08-16-2017 12:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: [ -> ]The NBA has mixed feelings on it. They want guys to be more mature than HS kids coming into the league, but they also think college does a terrible job of teaching the players to be ready for the NBA. And this comment includes Arizona, UK, KU, Duke, and UCLA (hum add USC and you have Bagley's list).
This is why the rookie scale is so much lower. They are not drafting guys ready to be stars their first year like Bird, Magic and Jordan were. Even the best take a couple years to find their feet (look at Aaron Gordon's 3rd year production compared to his first two). The G League is becoming increasingly important because even after college, the majority of players even in the first round are not NBA ready, and they need to face better competition than they did in college. Nobody watches the minor league like college, but the players are more of a cream of the crop, and this forces them to work on aspects of the game they need to contribute.
Bagley III is a complete joke of a student. It will be interesting to see how Duke keeps him eligible and builds a transcript to claim he leaves in good standing.
You make that statement about Bagley's academic record as if you know something about it. I've not been able to find anything to support that claim. The only comments I have read describe him as an "exceptional student". That claim, too, was not supported by any evidence.
Have you any inside information here, or are you just making an assumption?
Tough to stop this as you cannot tell someone who has graduated that they cannot go to college and telling them they cannot play at that point is tough. Might be some wiggle room in this but they will be very careful if they try to end this.
Ohio state just got a player this say too. Feels very weird and while it helps thr team, not sure it was best for player. That said, it is not like every player could succeed at trying this and maybe the ones attempting are ones who will be ok. Mixed feeling on right course here
You could stop it -- simply by making it a requirement of the NCAA Clearinghouse that the applicant will at least turn 18 years old during the school year in which they're applying.
But like I said, I think going one year lower as the floor should be fine too.
EDIT: I guess it's called the NCAA Eligibility Center, now
https://web3.ncaa.org/ecwr3/
I take part of it back on Bagley being an Academic joke, he's apparently not - he did have a 4.0 GPA last year. What Bagley is doing is a joke. It's absurd however to think he can complete a Senior year in a 8 week summer session. But then again much of HS is a joke, and so is the CIF (who's rules pushed him to do this -- I wish somebody would sue them, as they make rulings as a NPO as if they are a government agency and one that falls under Chevron Deference, which they are not covered by)
Here is a good break down of what Bagley had to do to be eligible
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/hi...582413001/
That article did not at all confirm that he took a whole year's worth of courses in a summer. As other posters have explained, he might've only needed a class or two to finish.
(08-17-2017 09:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]You could stop it -- simply by making it a requirement of the NCAA Clearinghouse that the applicant will at least turn 18 years old during the school year in which they're applying.
But like I said, I think going one year lower as the floor should be fine too.
EDIT: I guess it's called the NCAA Eligibility Center, now https://web3.ncaa.org/ecwr3/
You also don't want to punish a student who was pushed ahead (skipped a grade) and legitimately graduated.
Each sport could have physical criteria that an underage student couldn't meet (for their own safety).
I think the main problem is that different high schools have vastly different standards. A 10-week summer session at good high schools will probably result in just as much education as a full year at a bad high schools.
As long as the "student-athlete" meets the standards of the minimum high school, they should be allowed to attend college (probably not at Duke, but that's another issue - Duke basketball is just as shady as Kentucky these days IMO).