Secret poll of several coaches with their unvarnished comments as to why they feel the way they do. For instance---
Explain yourselves
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "Nick's got a lot of advantages. In [my conference], you could take five or six of us and get there a month before the season and win 12 games. There is a little f---ing machine underneath that stadium, and they grow them there."
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "We're going to have a war. You're going to have a howitzer, and I have a musket, and then every time we'll say that you're brilliant."
Underrated -- Chris Petersen at Washington: "He's not at Alabama, USC, Ohio State or Texas, but everywhere he goes, he makes an immediate impact. He does stand out to me wherever he's gone. The longer you coach, some of the best coaches we ever coach against people don't write about. Who's to say these guys aren't the very best?"
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-football/
(08-09-2017 10:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: [ -> ]Secret poll of several coaches with their unvarnished comments as to why they feel the way they do. For instance---
Explain yourselves
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "Nick's got a lot of advantages. In [my conference], you could take five or six of us and get there a month before the season and win 12 games. There is a little f---ing machine underneath that stadium, and they grow them there."
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "We're going to have a war. You're going to have a howitzer, and I have a musket, and then every time we'll say that you're brilliant."
Underrated -- Chris Petersen at Washington: "He's not at Alabama, USC, Ohio State or Texas, but everywhere he goes, he makes an immediate impact. He does stand out to me wherever he's gone. The longer you coach, some of the best coaches we ever coach against people don't write about. Who's to say these guys aren't the very best?"
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-football/
Though I have no love for Saban or Bama, he also won at LSU. In addition, Mike Shula went 26-23 before him. Franchione 17-8 and Dubose 24-23. Alabama does have some built in advantages (including playing TN as their rival when we had Dooley, I'll admit), but it still takes a good coach.
(08-09-2017 11:22 AM)Soobahk40050 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2017 10:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: [ -> ]Secret poll of several coaches with their unvarnished comments as to why they feel the way they do. For instance---
Explain yourselves
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "Nick's got a lot of advantages. In [my conference], you could take five or six of us and get there a month before the season and win 12 games. There is a little f---ing machine underneath that stadium, and they grow them there."
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "We're going to have a war. You're going to have a howitzer, and I have a musket, and then every time we'll say that you're brilliant."
Underrated -- Chris Petersen at Washington: "He's not at Alabama, USC, Ohio State or Texas, but everywhere he goes, he makes an immediate impact. He does stand out to me wherever he's gone. The longer you coach, some of the best coaches we ever coach against people don't write about. Who's to say these guys aren't the very best?"
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-football/
Though I have no love for Saban or Bama, he also won at LSU. In addition, Mike Shula went 26-23 before him. Franchione 17-8 and Dubose 24-23. Alabama does have some built in advantages (including playing TN as their rival when we had Dooley, I'll admit), but it still takes a good coach.
Exactly, Bama certainly has built in advantages just like Michigan, Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, etc... and every one of those schools has had coaches win at a high level and be pretty mediocre.
Saban has won at Toledo, Michigan State, LSU, and Alabama...he is definitely a good coach and a fantastic recruiter.
(08-09-2017 10:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: [ -> ]Secret poll of several coaches with their unvarnished comments as to why they feel the way they do. For instance---
Explain yourselves
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "Nick's got a lot of advantages. In [my conference], you could take five or six of us and get there a month before the season and win 12 games. There is a little f---ing machine underneath that stadium, and they grow them there."
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "We're going to have a war. You're going to have a howitzer, and I have a musket, and then every time we'll say that you're brilliant."
Underrated -- Chris Petersen at Washington: "He's not at Alabama, USC, Ohio State or Texas, but everywhere he goes, he makes an immediate impact. He does stand out to me wherever he's gone. The longer you coach, some of the best coaches we ever coach against people don't write about. Who's to say these guys aren't the very best?"
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-football/
Putting Saban into the most overrated isn't really fair. Reminds me of the same argument against Phil Jackson. Grant it, he arguably gets the best talent there is, but you STILL have to coach, develop, and win with that talent. Which leads perfectly into my most overrated, Lane Kiffin.
How the heck do you take a program like USC with all that talent and be that mediocre? The program seemed to be a train wreck when he was the head coach. I mean they fired him on the bus for God's sake. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
As for underrated, it was nice to see Ken Niumatalolo get some love. The guy does nothing but win at Navy. I'd be curious to see what he could do at a P5 school.
Most Overrated:
Lane Kiffin
Will Muschamp
Lovie Smith
Larry Fedora
Most Underrated:
Bill Snyder
David Cutcliffe
Scott Satterfield
Mark Richt
James Franklin
I have higher regard for guys like Saban who can win at places with lofty expectations. I respect Bill Snyder, but how much pressure is on him to go 8-4 at Kansas State?
Also Nick Saban is not overrated that guy wins every where he goes in college football. The reason is he can recruit like no one else.
And for another take on this topic, let's go to Steve Spurrier...
Quote:Roy Lang III
@RoyLangIII
"You can have good ball players and still not win football games -- all you LSU fans know about that."
Steve Spurrier.
@IndyBowl
10:29 AM - 9 Aug 2017
(08-09-2017 12:37 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote: [ -> ]Most Overrated:
Lane Kiffin
Will Muschamp
Lovie Smith
Larry Fedora
Most Underrated:
Bill Snyder
David Cutcliffe
Scott Satterfield
Mark Richt
James Franklin
Larry Fedora is only overrated if you think UNC should be good in football. I look at them like Kentucky, Duke and Kansas; they have no business being good in football. Their basketball will always overshadow their football and that makes it hard to do things like recruit. You come off as a liar telling recruits that football matters here when clearly it doesn't.
Overrated - Pat Fitzgerald
12 years as coach, hasn't contended for conference title once. Northwestern won 3 conference titles in the 11 years before him (he inherited a good program unlike other NU coaches).
Only true top team he's beaten in 12 years was Stanford on Opening Day 2015. He has plenty of bad losses (New Hampshire, Illinois State, Army, etc).
(08-09-2017 01:48 PM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]And for another take on this topic, let's go to Steve Spurrier...
Quote:Roy Lang III
@RoyLangIII
"You can have good ball players and still not win football games -- all you LSU fans know about that."
Steve Spurrier.
@IndyBowl
10:29 AM - 9 Aug 2017
I agree that Chris Petersen is truly a gem. Flying under too many radar screens is David Cutcliffe.
Overated Head Coaches:
1. Harbaugh: He's really good and may become great but right now you would think he was an unholy genetically engineered test tube baby comprised of Bear Bryant, Bo Schembechler, Woody Hayes, and Vince Lombardi's genetic profiles. He's not.
2. Gus Malzahn: He really is an offensive genius, but he is also a non communicative, micro managing, underachieving, collector of talent. Auburn has had 3 QB's that should have been successful. Gus can't develop them. They either come great or perish under fire. That's not a coach. It's an offensive coordinator pretending he knows how to coach.
3. Urban Meyer: He is an excellent CEO but at both Florida and Ohio State his down years have come when truly gifted OC's departed. Dan Mullen is over achieving at Miss State. Tom Herman quickly achieved at Houston. So Urban's talent is in assembling and managing a staff. If he doesn't have all of the pieces he needs to do the actual coaching under him then things drop off. I think he would be an excellent NFL coach.
4. Mark Richt: He is a class guy who did just enough to stay employed in one of the most talent rich states in the country. He'll win at Miami, but I doubt it will be championships.
5. Ed Orgeron: Fantastic recruiter and a tremendous motivator of players. Has yet to prove he can succeed consistently as a Head Coach. He could be a diamond in the rough, or he could just be rough. We'll see.
Underrated:
1. Dan Mullen: He's sneaky smart with recruiting and wins with much less talent than many realize. He is arguably at the 13th best program in the SEC and competes in the Western Division and seldom are his Bulldogs not in the game. He had one rough season when transitioning between Prescott to a newbie at QB. Some larger program out there needs to look at what he did offensively at Florida and then take a very close look at what he has achieved at Miss State.
2. James Franklin: He won at Vandy for crying out loud! Then he's done quite a bit to bring Penn State out of the Paterno Pitt.
3. Mike Gundy: Give me one good reason he's still at Oklahoma State besides Boone Pickens.
4. Dabo Swinney: People need to realize that there is more here than irrational exuberance. One day he'll go home to "Momma" and replace Nick at Bama. He's rebuilt Clemson without getting caught doing something stupid. He'll be fine.
5. Chris Petersen: He's simply stellar. I saved the best for last.
(08-09-2017 12:02 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2017 10:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: [ -> ]Secret poll of several coaches with their unvarnished comments as to why they feel the way they do. For instance---
Explain yourselves
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "Nick's got a lot of advantages. In [my conference], you could take five or six of us and get there a month before the season and win 12 games. There is a little f---ing machine underneath that stadium, and they grow them there."
Overrated -- Nick Saban at Alabama: "We're going to have a war. You're going to have a howitzer, and I have a musket, and then every time we'll say that you're brilliant."
Underrated -- Chris Petersen at Washington: "He's not at Alabama, USC, Ohio State or Texas, but everywhere he goes, he makes an immediate impact. He does stand out to me wherever he's gone. The longer you coach, some of the best coaches we ever coach against people don't write about. Who's to say these guys aren't the very best?"
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-football/
Putting Saban into the most overrated isn't really fair. Reminds me of the same argument against Phil Jackson. Grant it, he arguably gets the best talent there is, but you STILL have to coach, develop, and win with that talent. Which leads perfectly into my most overrated, Lane Kiffin.
How the heck do you take a program like USC with all that talent and be that mediocre? The program seemed to be a train wreck when he was the head coach. I mean they fired him on the bus for God's sake. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
As for underrated, it was nice to see Ken Niumatalolo get some love. The guy does nothing but win at Navy. I'd be curious to see what he could do at a P5 school.
And you have to recruit that talent. The biggest fallacy is that recruiting at the blue chips is easy.
I don't think its possible to overrate Nick Saban.
One thing that doesn't get mentioned much about coaches is getting them emotionally ready to play. Nick's teams are always very focused and balanced. You don't see them get too high and sputter out at halftime or when something goes wrong. That's how you win the number of championships he has.
I'm going contrarian.
Most overrated: Chris Peterson.
UW, despite evidence to the contrary given Sark's 7 win seasons, had LOTS of talent when Peterson arrived. Peterson also got himself a very good QB right off the bat. Seattle is a great city, the facilities are fantastic, and UW has one of the stronger PAC fan bases. The academics are outstanding without being constraining like Cal. UW is not USC or UCLA, but that's a very good thing given how dysfunctional those athletic departments are and how much interference there is from BMD.
Washington, IMO, was poised for a major improvement provided they got a very good coach. Peterson is a very good coach, but he has way more institutional advantages and inherited way more talent than people recognize.
(08-09-2017 12:45 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: [ -> ]I have higher regard for guys like Saban who can win at places with lofty expectations. I respect Bill Snyder, but how much pressure is on him to go 8-4 at Kansas State?
When it comes to everything but recruiting, Bill Snyder is the best coach out there. Nobody else could go 8-4 with his talent. And at KSU, it isn't easy to recruit blue chips. He simply outworks everyone else.
Also, there are the people who worked under him and how they have done. This 2015 article rates Snyder's coaching tree as the current best in college football.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26029...e-football
While I think he is a very entertaining head coach, and was given a raw deal at his former stop, with what he is being paid (over $3 million) compared to the results he has given, I have to put Mike Leach up there as being overrated. Rich Rodriguez should probably be up in that category as well after his failures at Michigan, and relatively unsuccessful tenure at Arizona. Jim Mora as well, with what he came into and the expectations he set. Todd Graham can be tossed in there too - no way should he have been able to have four big head coaching jobs in six seasons.
As far as underrated coaches go, I think Mike Gundy, Gary Patterson and Bill Snyder all do not get the national attention they deserve running their programs. Ken Niumatalolo should also be in that group.
(08-09-2017 03:29 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: [ -> ]While I think he is a very entertaining head coach, and was given a raw deal at his former stop, with what he is being paid (over $3 million) compared to the results he has given, I have to put Mike Leach up there as being overrated. Rich Rodriguez should probably be up in that category as well after his failures at Michigan, and relatively unsuccessful tenure at Arizona. Jim Mora as well, with what he came into and the expectations he set. Todd Graham can be tossed in there too - no way should he have been able to have four big head coaching jobs in six seasons.
As far as underrated coaches go, I think Mike Gundy, Gary Patterson and Bill Snyder all do not get the national attention they deserve running their programs. Ken Niumatalolo should also be in that group.
Bowl eligibility at WSU is a minor miracle. Agree on all the rest though.
Underrated
1. Ken N. - Navy
2. Bill Snyder - Kansas State
3. Gary Patterson - TCU
4. Mark Dantonio - Michigan St
5. Dan Mullen - Mississippi St
There might not be a coach in the country who could do better at Navy than Ken N.
I think Chris Petersen is a good coach but... I don't think he is underrated
Before he became head coach Boise State:
1998 6-5
1999 10-3
2000 10-2
2001 8-4
2002 12-2 #12 Coaches poll
2003 13-1 #15 Coaches poll
2004 11-1 #12 AP
2005 9-5
79-23 (.775) the eight years before he became head coach and .802 the 7 years before
Petersen went 92-12 (.885) in 8 seasons at Boise. He didn't drive it in the ditch and improved on a very good foundation.
Washington was 7-6, 7-6. 9-4 before he got there and went 8-6, 7-6, and 12-2 since he's been there.
I think he is a good coach but not a miracle worker.
(08-09-2017 02:12 PM)ChrisLords Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2017 12:37 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote: [ -> ]Most Overrated:
Lane Kiffin
Will Muschamp
Lovie Smith
Larry Fedora
Most Underrated:
Bill Snyder
David Cutcliffe
Scott Satterfield
Mark Richt
James Franklin
Larry Fedora is only overrated if you think UNC should be good in football. I look at them like Kentucky, Duke and Kansas; they have no business being good in football. Their basketball will always overshadow their football and that makes it hard to do things like recruit. You come off as a liar telling recruits that football matters here when clearly it doesn't.
I don't think Larry Fedora is overrated, but I don't think he's underrated either. UNC's basketball still oveshadows their football, but football does matter some at UNC, especially after they lost Coach Mack Brown to Texas, but don't look for UNC to be hiring a Saban, a Smart, or an Orgeron anytime soon either. Now Tom Allen @ Indiana could come off as a liar telling recruits that football matters here @IU when it very clearly does not.0
(08-09-2017 11:22 AM)Soobahk40050 Wrote: [ -> ]Though I have no love for Saban or Bama, he also won at LSU. In addition, Mike Shula went 26-23 before him. Franchione 17-8 and Dubose 24-23. Alabama does have some built in advantages (including playing TN as their rival when we had Dooley, I'll admit), but it still takes a good coach.
The Saban has enormous and underrated
political skills. Each of those guys who came before had to deal with "help" from the Board of Trustees. Early on Saban got help too - Jim Wilson IV phoned (from his plane) one of the assistants to "give advice" on Cover Two defense. Saban smacked him down in public, when crossing the III's and IV's had cost each of the prior guys their job.
Bammer has enormous advantages, but using them with 17 fat and stupid albatrosses around your neck, all of whom know more about fooobaw than you and are eager to let you know that (and that they sign your checks), is damned difficult.
As much as I hate bammers, and that is pretty much without measure, I really appreciate that Saban refused to participate in trashing #FreeUAB. They had to have tried - they threw everything else at us - and I don't know how we could have countered that if he'd joined in.