(03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
You don't know what you are getting with the talent. The culture and cohesion in the locker room is more important. We have enough contributors returning.
(03-29-2019 08:46 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]No JUCOs or grad transfers please. Let's build a scalable and sustainable program and end the patchwork of kneejerk reactionism.
There are practically no teams in college basketball these days that won’t take transfers. Heck, a grad transfer from Bucknell visited Kentucky this week. If Kentucky isn’t too good to take grad transfers, then we shouldn’t think we are.
Listen, I don’t want Nevada’s roster, but if we can get a Juco or Grad transfer to help us next year and the year after, why wouldn’t we want that?
Ok, if we can get a grad transfer that can play at Kentucky's level, go for it. I don't think we have a desperate need to put a butt in a seat though... and I think that is where our program should be. As a mid-major, the goal should be every year have a starting 5 that has been in the program for 2 years. That is the sign of a healthy program and one that can perform OOC and in November preseason tournaments because they aren't starting over every year. We are on track to finally get there in 20-21 if we can focus on keeping and improving our current freshmen and sophomores.
(03-29-2019 09:27 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
You don't know what you are getting with the talent. The culture and cohesion in the locker room is more important. We have enough contributors returning.
And you know a freshman is going to gel and fit in with the rest of team? Come on. You recruit as much talent as you can.
(03-29-2019 08:57 AM)odu09 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
Exactly. The recent changes to transfer rules means if you aren't getting in the transfer market then you are just shooting yourself in the foot. Plus everyone is assuming nobody is transferring away from our team when in reality each team on average loses 2 players to the transfer portal. No, I'm not in the know, but if you think we are immune that is a tough assumption.
We've had a lot of success with grad transfers and jucos. Not sure why we would cut ourselves off from a viable option just because we don't get them for 4 years. Again, that's the assumption that a great player actually stays here for 4 years. It's not a given.
We haven't had "a lot of success". They are band aids. When you have a wound, you need a band aid. I think our wounds have healed. We have no need. If we start losing key players, then we have a wound.
(03-29-2019 09:35 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:27 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
You don't know what you are getting with the talent. The culture and cohesion in the locker room is more important. We have enough contributors returning.
And you know a freshman is going to gel and fit in with the rest of team? Come on. You recruit as much talent as you can.
A freshman is more likely to fit into a team with upper-class leadership that is ingrained into the culture from being here over the last 3-4 years that can check their egos. A grad transfer won't know the culture and traditions and is unlikely to provide that leadership.
(03-29-2019 09:39 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:57 AM)odu09 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
Exactly. The recent changes to transfer rules means if you aren't getting in the transfer market then you are just shooting yourself in the foot. Plus everyone is assuming nobody is transferring away from our team when in reality each team on average loses 2 players to the transfer portal. No, I'm not in the know, but if you think we are immune that is a tough assumption.
We've had a lot of success with grad transfers and jucos. Not sure why we would cut ourselves off from a viable option just because we don't get them for 4 years. Again, that's the assumption that a great player actually stays here for 4 years. It's not a given.
We haven't had "a lot of success". They are band aids. When you have a wound, you need a band aid. I think our wounds have healed. We have no need. If we start losing key players, then we have a wound.
I guess you and I just have a fundamental disagreement for what transfers are. I don't consider them 'band aids.' If you have access to talent, you go after that talent regardless of how many years they will spend here. You could get an amazing freshman player only to have them transfer away 2 years later. Assuming you can get a great player to stay here 4 years is less likely now thanks to the relatively new transfer rules. Staying away from the transfer market is just refusing to be agile.
(03-29-2019 09:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:35 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:27 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
You don't know what you are getting with the talent. The culture and cohesion in the locker room is more important. We have enough contributors returning.
And you know a freshman is going to gel and fit in with the rest of team? Come on. You recruit as much talent as you can.
A freshman is more likely to fit into a team with upper-class leadership that is ingrained into the culture from being here over the last 3-4 years that can check their egos. A grad transfer won't know the culture and traditions and is unlikely to provide that leadership.
Of the two grad transfers we have had (Arledge and Robinson), which one of them didn't gel well? I mean we have struck out on some freshman but we don't have any trend of grad transfers to say it's clearly something to avoid. I'd certainly jump all over another Arledge, if given the chance.
If you have a strong program, contributing players aren't going to transfer out because they've bought in and are ingrained in the concept of team. If you are bringing in transfers and spending 80% of your time focusing on them to become contributors while spending less time making your established guys like X, Wade, Zip, etc... they might consider transferring out. It is all about where you focus your resources.
I will add that if you changed your argument to JuCos, I'd agree. I cant think of any positives going that route under JJ.
(03-29-2019 09:53 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:35 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:27 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
You don't know what you are getting with the talent. The culture and cohesion in the locker room is more important. We have enough contributors returning.
And you know a freshman is going to gel and fit in with the rest of team? Come on. You recruit as much talent as you can.
A freshman is more likely to fit into a team with upper-class leadership that is ingrained into the culture from being here over the last 3-4 years that can check their egos. A grad transfer won't know the culture and traditions and is unlikely to provide that leadership.
Of the two grad transfers we have had (Arledge and Robinson), which one of them didn't gel well? I mean we have struck out on some freshman but we don't have any trend of grad transfers to say it's clearly something to avoid. I'd certainly jump all over another Arledge, if given the chance.
Arledge and Robinson were needed at the time. Bring in an Arledge next year and he'll play alongside Carver contributing and possible making the starting 5 a little better... but Zip and Dickens will become resentful and lose motivation as less time is spent getting them better and they move a seat down the bench, you'll more than likely get Zip transferring out and Dickens, stuck on the team because he has already transferred, becoming a cancer on the team and in the locker room spreading negativity and the ones that will be listening to him are the freshmen. With the lack of motivation, bad decisions are made... perhaps some failed drug tests or off-court trouble. So while next year there is potential for the team to be a little better with the right grad transfer, you are left scrambling the following year. Hence the cycle. We have seen too much of it over the last 8 years and are better than this.
JJ is not a one and done specialist like coach Cal and he is not going to get any P5 level grad transfers. Let's focus on the kids that committed to us for 3+ years.
(03-29-2019 10:12 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:53 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:35 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:27 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]You don't know what you are getting with the talent. The culture and cohesion in the locker room is more important. We have enough contributors returning.
And you know a freshman is going to gel and fit in with the rest of team? Come on. You recruit as much talent as you can.
A freshman is more likely to fit into a team with upper-class leadership that is ingrained into the culture from being here over the last 3-4 years that can check their egos. A grad transfer won't know the culture and traditions and is unlikely to provide that leadership.
Of the two grad transfers we have had (Arledge and Robinson), which one of them didn't gel well? I mean we have struck out on some freshman but we don't have any trend of grad transfers to say it's clearly something to avoid. I'd certainly jump all over another Arledge, if given the chance.
Arledge and Robinson were needed at the time. Bring in an Arledge next year and he'll play alongside Carver contributing and possible making the starting 5 a little better... but Zip and Dickens will become resentful and lose motivation as less time is spent getting them better and they move a seat down the bench, you'll more than likely get Zip transferring out and Dickens, stuck on the team because he has already transferred, becoming a cancer on the team and in the locker room spreading negativity and the ones that will be listening to him are the freshmen. With the lack of motivation, bad decisions are made... perhaps some failed drug tests or off-court trouble. So while next year there is potential for the team to be a little better with the right grad transfer, you are left scrambling the following year. Hence the cycle. We have seen too much of it over the last 8 years and are better than this.
JJ is not a one and done specialist like coach Cal and he is not going to get any P5 level grad transfers. Let's focus on the kids that committed to us for 3+ years.
Sorry, I'm not jumping on this presumptions train with you.
(03-29-2019 10:03 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]I will add that if you changed your argument to JuCos, I'd agree. I cant think of any positives going that route under JJ.
Completely agree. Grad transfers are usually a good addition and not going to cause those cohesion issues.
(03-29-2019 10:14 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 10:12 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:53 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:35 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ]And you know a freshman is going to gel and fit in with the rest of team? Come on. You recruit as much talent as you can.
A freshman is more likely to fit into a team with upper-class leadership that is ingrained into the culture from being here over the last 3-4 years that can check their egos. A grad transfer won't know the culture and traditions and is unlikely to provide that leadership.
Of the two grad transfers we have had (Arledge and Robinson), which one of them didn't gel well? I mean we have struck out on some freshman but we don't have any trend of grad transfers to say it's clearly something to avoid. I'd certainly jump all over another Arledge, if given the chance.
Arledge and Robinson were needed at the time. Bring in an Arledge next year and he'll play alongside Carver contributing and possible making the starting 5 a little better... but Zip and Dickens will become resentful and lose motivation as less time is spent getting them better and they move a seat down the bench, you'll more than likely get Zip transferring out and Dickens, stuck on the team because he has already transferred, becoming a cancer on the team and in the locker room spreading negativity and the ones that will be listening to him are the freshmen. With the lack of motivation, bad decisions are made... perhaps some failed drug tests or off-court trouble. So while next year there is potential for the team to be a little better with the right grad transfer, you are left scrambling the following year. Hence the cycle. We have seen too much of it over the last 8 years and are better than this.
JJ is not a one and done specialist like coach Cal and he is not going to get any P5 level grad transfers. Let's focus on the kids that committed to us for 3+ years.
Sorry, I'm not jumping on this presumptions train with you.
It is human nature in organizational psychology and management. No different than having your operations manager retire so you post the position. A loyal, 7 year employee who has been working toward that position applies, but you decide to go with someone from outside that nobody knows because they have more experience. What happens then to the loyal employee? They start shopping their resume and eventually leave and the other employees get resentful. So you have a more experienced manager, but a weaker team. There is more to the makeup of the team than the talents of the individual parts. This isn't a video game. It is no fluke that the year we finally win the conference, 4 out of the 5 starters were in at least their 3rd year in the program. JJ does not have a charismatic personality, and frankly, while his basketball knowledge and teaching ability are his strengths, his charismatic leadership skills are probably his biggest weakness. He needs the longevity of his team to instill the vision, culture, and values he wants to focus on more than anyone.
(03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
Me too. That is a horrible way of thinking. The way you get good freshman, is you win. You bring in good grad transfers to win, which helps you bring in good freshman.
(03-29-2019 08:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]No JUCOs or grad transfers please. Let's build a scalable and sustainable program and end the patchwork of kneejerk reactionism.
This isn't the environment we grew up in. You aren't going to consistently bring in 4 year players because a large portion of them are just going to transfer. If you handcuff yourself to just freshman, you won't compete.
Im not sure where this theory that you can't build a sustainable program with transfers came from.
(03-29-2019 09:27 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
You don't know what you are getting with the talent. The culture and cohesion in the locker room is more important. We have enough contributors returning.
You don't know what you are getting with Freshman either.
(03-29-2019 09:39 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:57 AM)odu09 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
Exactly. The recent changes to transfer rules means if you aren't getting in the transfer market then you are just shooting yourself in the foot. Plus everyone is assuming nobody is transferring away from our team when in reality each team on average loses 2 players to the transfer portal. No, I'm not in the know, but if you think we are immune that is a tough assumption.
We've had a lot of success with grad transfers and jucos. Not sure why we would cut ourselves off from a viable option just because we don't get them for 4 years. Again, that's the assumption that a great player actually stays here for 4 years. It's not a given.
We haven't had "a lot of success". They are band aids. When you have a wound, you need a band aid. I think our wounds have healed. We have no need. If we start losing key players, then we have a wound.
What would our record have been without:
Freeman
Stith
Stith
Kithcart
Arledge
Porter
(03-29-2019 09:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]If you have a strong program, contributing players aren't going to transfer out because they've bought in and are ingrained in the concept of team. If you are bringing in transfers and spending 80% of your time focusing on them to become contributors while spending less time making your established guys like X, Wade, Zip, etc... they might consider transferring out. It is all about where you focus your resources.
The best run teams in America lose transfers.
(03-29-2019 10:12 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:53 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:35 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:27 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]You don't know what you are getting with the talent. The culture and cohesion in the locker room is more important. We have enough contributors returning.
And you know a freshman is going to gel and fit in with the rest of team? Come on. You recruit as much talent as you can.
A freshman is more likely to fit into a team with upper-class leadership that is ingrained into the culture from being here over the last 3-4 years that can check their egos. A grad transfer won't know the culture and traditions and is unlikely to provide that leadership.
Of the two grad transfers we have had (Arledge and Robinson), which one of them didn't gel well? I mean we have struck out on some freshman but we don't have any trend of grad transfers to say it's clearly something to avoid. I'd certainly jump all over another Arledge, if given the chance.
Arledge and Robinson were needed at the time. Bring in an Arledge next year and he'll play alongside Carver contributing and possible making the starting 5 a little better... but Zip and Dickens will become resentful and lose motivation as less time is spent getting them better and they move a seat down the bench, you'll more than likely get Zip transferring out and Dickens, stuck on the team because he has already transferred, becoming a cancer on the team and in the locker room spreading negativity and the ones that will be listening to him are the freshmen. With the lack of motivation, bad decisions are made... perhaps some failed drug tests or off-court trouble. So while next year there is potential for the team to be a little better with the right grad transfer, you are left scrambling the following year. Hence the cycle. We have seen too much of it over the last 8 years and are better than this.
JJ is not a one and done specialist like coach Cal and he is not going to get any P5 level grad transfers. Let's focus on the kids that committed to us for 3+ years.
This is a lot of nonsense, hyperbole, and frankly, bull**** assumptions.
(03-29-2019 11:00 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 09:39 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:57 AM)odu09 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2019 08:44 AM)jumpshooter Wrote: [ -> ]You take talent wherever you can find it; with 800 transfers likely in the portal, we're supposed to ignore a potential contributor? Riiiiiiiiight; so glad you don't coach ODU
Exactly. The recent changes to transfer rules means if you aren't getting in the transfer market then you are just shooting yourself in the foot. Plus everyone is assuming nobody is transferring away from our team when in reality each team on average loses 2 players to the transfer portal. No, I'm not in the know, but if you think we are immune that is a tough assumption.
We've had a lot of success with grad transfers and jucos. Not sure why we would cut ourselves off from a viable option just because we don't get them for 4 years. Again, that's the assumption that a great player actually stays here for 4 years. It's not a given.
We haven't had "a lot of success". They are band aids. When you have a wound, you need a band aid. I think our wounds have healed. We have no need. If we start losing key players, then we have a wound.
What would our record have been without:
Freeman
Stith
Stith
Kithcart
Arledge
Porter
Dickens/Robinson combo leaving Ezikpe as the only big.