(08-31-2017 10:30 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:07 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 09:13 AM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 12:43 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ]Of course you don't, I live in NJ and am a Tigers fan. But to say that the majority of the fan base is happy with the way the program is being run is just false.
I feel like location rules you and myself out from having credible opinions on a majority consensus of a program that's 1,000+ miles away. Everyone I remain in contact with wasn't thrilled with the Tubby hire, but yet they are very optimistic of what he can accomplish WITH time! I for one, loved CJP, but realized it was time for the program to change it's direction. I was also excited about the hiring of a H.O.F. coach.
Despite our recruiting woes, I think Tubby has done a decent job of handling the poor state that the program was given to him in. If you think that the program was anywhere near a similar state when Tubby took over from when CJP took over you are horribly mistaken. Also, attributing the state of the current program directly to Tubby is asinine! The Lawson's were a problem he was left with, and tried to make the best of. The other players that left, probably did so because of the turmoil the Lawson's caused, and were unable to tell if it was mainly Tubby's fault or the Lawson's. I assume you have friends, and some have said things to you which may alter a decision you had planned on making, and I think this was a factor is the exodus of players.
Rebuilding a program, no matter how large, or how good the facilities, it takes TIME. Cal didn't rebuild the program over night. He had 3 seasons(if I remember correctly) before making the NCAA Tournament. Tubby isn't going anywhere for at least 2-3 more seasons, so you might as well get on board and support the program and the University!
my .02 for what it's worth
Quote:Despite our recruiting woes, I think Tubby has done a decent job of handling the poor state that the program was given to him in.
Quote:Rebuilding a program, no matter how large, or how good the facilities, it takes TIME. Cal didn't rebuild the program over night. He had 3 seasons(if I remember correctly) before making the NCAA Tournament.
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes, rebuilding takes time and most fans understand that, you are 100% correct. However, when you compare two scenarios where you give coaches time, you have to ask one very important question.
What is the payoff?
Let's see. Before Cal was at Memphis, he was at UMass. He took a complete piece of junk with no tradition, no brand, that had 10 straight losing seasons, averaging 2,700 per game; and had them in the tournament by his 4th year with attendance up 50%, and attendance up more than 2 1/2 times and into the Sweet 16.
Cal's last 5 seasons at UMass, he went Sweet 16, Round of 32, Round of 32, Elite 8 and Final Four, and won 11 tournament games with attendance almost 4 times what it was before he got there. This is at a piece of crap like UMass.
So when Cal doesn't turn things around right away, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt especially when he recruits at a high level, AND especially when tickets sold increase to 17,110 from 11,974 the previous season.
What is the payoff with Tubby? He has one NCAA win in the last 10 years, is 66 years old, is recruiting at a mediocre level and ticket sales are plummeting. What is a reasonable expectation to have with Tubby as our coach? If we can expect for him to be in the tournament in year 3 we certainly can't expect him to win a game, and we certainly can't expect for 68 year old Tubby to be in the tournament in year 4 or win a game.
There is no payoff with Tubby.
Comparison to Calipari? Good luck. He's a once in an era coach. Like him or not, there's no one else like him.
We were all hoping for Marshall, but he declined the job. Same with Buzz. I believe in the team we have in Memphis, they brought us Fuente and Norvell. I think they found a guy that could turn us around. He's not the coach of the future, I seriously doubt he'll work past his current contract. And if he doesn't turn it around, maybe not that long.
Some other names considered. Forbes, Kennedy, Pearl? No thanks. As much as I love Memphis basketball, we couldn't lure a high profile coach (again) despite our history and resources (and big time pay).
So we got Tubby. Not a dang thing any of us can do about it. So I'm not going to incessantly whine about it. Either he does it or not. I could care less what he's done before (national championship or last ten years). All that's irrelevant. I think he did OK at dismal programs, others don't. I know he brought TT out of the cellar in three years. I think he'll do it here.
We all thought Tubby was doing a good job last year until the end. Why the downturn? Fatigue or Lawsons? I don't know, but while being our best players, they were extremely polarizing. They're gone now (thankfully) and we move on. We're in on some good players and I think we sign a good class, one that fills positions in need.
Was he doing well when Memphis lost a home game to Monmouth? A game in which Memphis had a double-digit 2nd half lead?
How about vs. a less that intimidating Ole Miss team? Certainly OM was out-talenting Memphis, right?
(08-31-2017 10:33 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:30 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:07 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 09:13 AM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ][quote='EricSigEpTNBeta183' pid='14538728' dateline='1504158180']
Of course you don't, I live in NJ and am a Tigers fan. But to say that the majority of the fan base is happy with the way the program is being run is just false.
I feel like location rules you and myself out from having credible opinions on a majority consensus of a program that's 1,000+ miles away. Everyone I remain in contact with wasn't thrilled with the Tubby hire, but yet they are very optimistic of what he can accomplish WITH time! I for one, loved CJP, but realized it was time for the program to change it's direction. I was also excited about the hiring of a H.O.F. coach.
Despite our recruiting woes, I think Tubby has done a decent job of handling the poor state that the program was given to him in. If you think that the program was anywhere near a similar state when Tubby took over from when CJP took over you are horribly mistaken. Also, attributing the state of the current program directly to Tubby is asinine! The Lawson's were a problem he was left with, and tried to make the best of. The other players that left, probably did so because of the turmoil the Lawson's caused, and were unable to tell if it was mainly Tubby's fault or the Lawson's. I assume you have friends, and some have said things to you which may alter a decision you had planned on making, and I think this was a factor is the exodus of players.
Rebuilding a program, no matter how large, or how good the facilities, it takes TIME. Cal didn't rebuild the program over night. He had 3 seasons(if I remember correctly) before making the NCAA Tournament. Tubby isn't going anywhere for at least 2-3 more seasons, so you might as well get on board and support the program and the University!
my .02 for what it's worth
Quote:Despite our recruiting woes, I think Tubby has done a decent job of handling the poor state that the program was given to him in.
Quote:Rebuilding a program, no matter how large, or how good the facilities, it takes TIME. Cal didn't rebuild the program over night. He had 3 seasons(if I remember correctly) before making the NCAA Tournament.
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes, rebuilding takes time and most fans understand that, you are 100% correct. However, when you compare two scenarios where you give coaches time, you have to ask one very important question.
What is the payoff?
Let's see. Before Cal was at Memphis, he was at UMass. He took a complete piece of junk with no tradition, no brand, that had 10 straight losing seasons, averaging 2,700 per game; and had them in the tournament by his 4th year with attendance up 50%, and attendance up more than 2 1/2 times and into the Sweet 16.
Cal's last 5 seasons at UMass, he went Sweet 16, Round of 32, Round of 32, Elite 8 and Final Four, and won 11 tournament games with attendance almost 4 times what it was before he got there. This is at a piece of crap like UMass.
So when Cal doesn't turn things around right away, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt especially when he recruits at a high level, AND especially when tickets sold increase to 17,110 from 11,974 the previous season.
What is the payoff with Tubby? He has one NCAA win in the last 10 years, is 66 years old, is recruiting at a mediocre level and ticket sales are plummeting. What is a reasonable expectation to have with Tubby as our coach? If we can expect for him to be in the tournament in year 3 we certainly can't expect him to win a game, and we certainly can't expect for 68 year old Tubby to be in the tournament in year 4 or win a game.
There is no payoff with Tubby.
Comparison to Calipari? Good luck. He's a once in an era coach. Like him or not, there's no one else like him.
We were all hoping for Marshall, but he declined the job. Same with Buzz. I believe in the team we have in Memphis, they brought us Fuente and Norvell. I think they found a guy that could turn us around. He's not the coach of the future, I seriously doubt he'll work past his current contract. And if he doesn't turn it around, maybe not that long.
Some other names considered. Forbes, Kennedy, Pearl? No thanks. As much as I love Memphis basketball, we couldn't lure a high profile coach (again) despite our history and resources (and big time pay).
So we got Tubby. Not a dang thing any of us can do about it. So I'm not going to incessantly whine about it. Either he does it or not. I could care less what he's done before (national championship or last ten years). All that's irrelevant. I think he did OK at dismal programs, others don't. I know he brought TT out of the cellar in three years. I think he'll do it here.
We all thought Tubby was doing a good job last year until the end. Why the downturn? Fatigue or Lawsons? I don't know, but while being our best players, they were extremely polarizing. They're gone now (thankfully) and we move on. We're in on some good players and I think we sign a good class, one that fills positions in need.
Was he doing well when Memphis lost a home game to Monmouth? A game in which Memphis had a double-digit 2nd half lead?
How about vs. a less that intimidating Ole Miss team? Certainly OM was out-talenting Memphis, right?
[/quote
Was he doing well when we beat SC?
(08-31-2017 09:25 AM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 09:16 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: [ -> ]The last time we had a coaching change after a bad season (a losing record), ticket sales surged. By comparison, the ticket sales under Tubby after a medicore season dropped significantly from the previous year. Tubby has clearly failed to excite fans.
there's nothing exciting about being old and stuck in your ways. He wasn't hired coming off of a NC run. I also assume the last coach hired off of a bad season wasn't during a huge spike in football. I haven't thought about this until now, but it's a possibility that a good portion of our fanbase are "warm-weather" fans. What I mean by that is, maybe they want to donate and participate in the athletics program, but they want to do that with the "more exciting" program. Statistically that has always been basketball, but now, football is the more exciting of the two.
Tubby's hire has been such a disaster that we can't even have players in for visits during basketball games, which will make recruiting even more difficult.
Stammers ---- please understand this one point ---- my personal responses or comments ARE NOT intended to be pro Tubby!!! They are intended to be anti-judging him and his staff right now!!
I understand that it may not seem that way HOWEVER since a few here, yourself included of course, seem to be soooooo against the man and his staff, my points and those of others I'm sure, are simply intended to slow down the premature judgement of the staff and the players...
I get bashed for my wait and see approach, by you and a couple of others here, and that's fine but that's the most reasonable approach at this point, in my opinion.
(08-31-2017 10:35 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:33 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:30 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:07 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 09:13 AM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ][quote='EricSigEpTNBeta183' pid='14538728' dateline='1504158180']
Of course you don't, I live in NJ and am a Tigers fan. But to say that the majority of the fan base is happy with the way the program is being run is just false.
I feel like location rules you and myself out from having credible opinions on a majority consensus of a program that's 1,000+ miles away. Everyone I remain in contact with wasn't thrilled with the Tubby hire, but yet they are very optimistic of what he can accomplish WITH time! I for one, loved CJP, but realized it was time for the program to change it's direction. I was also excited about the hiring of a H.O.F. coach.
Despite our recruiting woes, I think Tubby has done a decent job of handling the poor state that the program was given to him in. If you think that the program was anywhere near a similar state when Tubby took over from when CJP took over you are horribly mistaken. Also, attributing the state of the current program directly to Tubby is asinine! The Lawson's were a problem he was left with, and tried to make the best of. The other players that left, probably did so because of the turmoil the Lawson's caused, and were unable to tell if it was mainly Tubby's fault or the Lawson's. I assume you have friends, and some have said things to you which may alter a decision you had planned on making, and I think this was a factor is the exodus of players.
Rebuilding a program, no matter how large, or how good the facilities, it takes TIME. Cal didn't rebuild the program over night. He had 3 seasons(if I remember correctly) before making the NCAA Tournament. Tubby isn't going anywhere for at least 2-3 more seasons, so you might as well get on board and support the program and the University!
my .02 for what it's worth
Quote:Despite our recruiting woes, I think Tubby has done a decent job of handling the poor state that the program was given to him in.
Quote:Rebuilding a program, no matter how large, or how good the facilities, it takes TIME. Cal didn't rebuild the program over night. He had 3 seasons(if I remember correctly) before making the NCAA Tournament.
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes, rebuilding takes time and most fans understand that, you are 100% correct. However, when you compare two scenarios where you give coaches time, you have to ask one very important question.
What is the payoff?
Let's see. Before Cal was at Memphis, he was at UMass. He took a complete piece of junk with no tradition, no brand, that had 10 straight losing seasons, averaging 2,700 per game; and had them in the tournament by his 4th year with attendance up 50%, and attendance up more than 2 1/2 times and into the Sweet 16.
Cal's last 5 seasons at UMass, he went Sweet 16, Round of 32, Round of 32, Elite 8 and Final Four, and won 11 tournament games with attendance almost 4 times what it was before he got there. This is at a piece of crap like UMass.
So when Cal doesn't turn things around right away, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt especially when he recruits at a high level, AND especially when tickets sold increase to 17,110 from 11,974 the previous season.
What is the payoff with Tubby? He has one NCAA win in the last 10 years, is 66 years old, is recruiting at a mediocre level and ticket sales are plummeting. What is a reasonable expectation to have with Tubby as our coach? If we can expect for him to be in the tournament in year 3 we certainly can't expect him to win a game, and we certainly can't expect for 68 year old Tubby to be in the tournament in year 4 or win a game.
There is no payoff with Tubby.
Comparison to Calipari? Good luck. He's a once in an era coach. Like him or not, there's no one else like him.
We were all hoping for Marshall, but he declined the job. Same with Buzz. I believe in the team we have in Memphis, they brought us Fuente and Norvell. I think they found a guy that could turn us around. He's not the coach of the future, I seriously doubt he'll work past his current contract. And if he doesn't turn it around, maybe not that long.
Some other names considered. Forbes, Kennedy, Pearl? No thanks. As much as I love Memphis basketball, we couldn't lure a high profile coach (again) despite our history and resources (and big time pay).
So we got Tubby. Not a dang thing any of us can do about it. So I'm not going to incessantly whine about it. Either he does it or not. I could care less what he's done before (national championship or last ten years). All that's irrelevant. I think he did OK at dismal programs, others don't. I know he brought TT out of the cellar in three years. I think he'll do it here.
We all thought Tubby was doing a good job last year until the end. Why the downturn? Fatigue or Lawsons? I don't know, but while being our best players, they were extremely polarizing. They're gone now (thankfully) and we move on. We're in on some good players and I think we sign a good class, one that fills positions in need.
Was he doing well when Memphis lost a home game to Monmouth? A game in which Memphis had a double-digit 2nd half lead?
How about vs. a less that intimidating Ole Miss team? Certainly OM was out-talenting Memphis, right?
[/quote
Was he doing well when we beat SC?
He was doing great when we beat USC without their best player. You don't seem to understand that it isn't a 1 game season.
(08-31-2017 10:40 AM)450bench Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers ---- please understand this one point ---- my personal responses or comments ARE NOT intended to be pro Tubby!!! They are intended to be anti-judging him and his staff right now!!
I understand that it may not seem that way HOWEVER since a few here, yourself included of course, seem to be soooooo against the man and his staff, my points and those of others I'm sure, are simply intended to slow down the premature judgement of the staff and the players...
I get bashed for my wait and see approach and that's fine but that's the most reasonable approach at this point, in my opinion.
I'm not bashing anyone for their wait and see approach; I admire it actually and I usually have a positive outlook and wish I had the same approach with Tubby.
The difference between us is how we look at what Tubby has done between Point A and Point B. You are saying, let's wait and see how Point B turns out. I'm saying that everything leading up to it has been a disaster.
I'm saying that building a basketball program is no different from building a rocket. If the math doesn't work and you aren't using materials that are up to spec, you shouldn't expect the rocket to work.
(08-31-2017 10:45 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:40 AM)450bench Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers ---- please understand this one point ---- my personal responses or comments ARE NOT intended to be pro Tubby!!! They are intended to be anti-judging him and his staff right now!!
I understand that it may not seem that way HOWEVER since a few here, yourself included of course, seem to be soooooo against the man and his staff, my points and those of others I'm sure, are simply intended to slow down the premature judgement of the staff and the players...
I get bashed for my wait and see approach and that's fine but that's the most reasonable approach at this point, in my opinion.
I'm not bashing anyone for their wait and see approach; I admire it actually and I usually have a positive outlook and wish I had the same approach with Tubby.
The difference between us is how we look at what Tubby has done between Point A and Point B. You are saying, let's wait and see how Point B turns out. I'm saying that everything leading up to it has been a disaster.
I'm saying that building a basketball program is no different from building a rocket. If the math doesn't work and you aren't using materials that are up to spec, you shouldn't expect the rocket to work.
That's a very fair statement. Last point by me though, using your statement, we don't know if the materials being used are up to spec or not. Not yet at least. We are speculating on their quality. We'll know as the season begins and progresses.
(08-31-2017 10:52 AM)450bench Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:45 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:40 AM)450bench Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers ---- please understand this one point ---- my personal responses or comments ARE NOT intended to be pro Tubby!!! They are intended to be anti-judging him and his staff right now!!
I understand that it may not seem that way HOWEVER since a few here, yourself included of course, seem to be soooooo against the man and his staff, my points and those of others I'm sure, are simply intended to slow down the premature judgement of the staff and the players...
I get bashed for my wait and see approach and that's fine but that's the most reasonable approach at this point, in my opinion.
I'm not bashing anyone for their wait and see approach; I admire it actually and I usually have a positive outlook and wish I had the same approach with Tubby.
The difference between us is how we look at what Tubby has done between Point A and Point B. You are saying, let's wait and see how Point B turns out. I'm saying that everything leading up to it has been a disaster.
I'm saying that building a basketball program is no different from building a rocket. If the math doesn't work and you aren't using materials that are up to spec, you shouldn't expect the rocket to work.
That's a very fair statement. Last point by me though, using your statement, we don't know if the materials being used are up to spec or not. Not yet at least. We are speculating on their quality. We'll know as the season begins and progresses.
Technically speaking, maybe a better comparison would be a winemaker that has the best grapes and the best resources, but isn't very skilled at making wine, versus a highly skilled winemaker who isn't working with the best grapes.
In a nutshell, that is the difference between Pastner and Tubby. I guess what many are saying is that there are limits on the quality of wine you can produce with a certain level of grape.
So many winemakers have a huge head start on Tubby because they are working with grapes that are universally considered to be better than what Tubby will be working with.
(08-31-2017 10:41 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:35 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:33 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:30 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:07 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like location rules you and myself out from having credible opinions on a majority consensus of a program that's 1,000+ miles away. Everyone I remain in contact with wasn't thrilled with the Tubby hire, but yet they are very optimistic of what he can accomplish WITH time! I for one, loved CJP, but realized it was time for the program to change it's direction. I was also excited about the hiring of a H.O.F. coach.
Despite our recruiting woes, I think Tubby has done a decent job of handling the poor state that the program was given to him in. If you think that the program was anywhere near a similar state when Tubby took over from when CJP took over you are horribly mistaken. Also, attributing the state of the current program directly to Tubby is asinine! The Lawson's were a problem he was left with, and tried to make the best of. The other players that left, probably did so because of the turmoil the Lawson's caused, and were unable to tell if it was mainly Tubby's fault or the Lawson's. I assume you have friends, and some have said things to you which may alter a decision you had planned on making, and I think this was a factor is the exodus of players.
Rebuilding a program, no matter how large, or how good the facilities, it takes TIME. Cal didn't rebuild the program over night. He had 3 seasons(if I remember correctly) before making the NCAA Tournament. Tubby isn't going anywhere for at least 2-3 more seasons, so you might as well get on board and support the program and the University!
my .02 for what it's worth
Quote:Despite our recruiting woes, I think Tubby has done a decent job of handling the poor state that the program was given to him in.
Quote:Rebuilding a program, no matter how large, or how good the facilities, it takes TIME. Cal didn't rebuild the program over night. He had 3 seasons(if I remember correctly) before making the NCAA Tournament.
I'm glad you brought this up. Yes, rebuilding takes time and most fans understand that, you are 100% correct. However, when you compare two scenarios where you give coaches time, you have to ask one very important question.
What is the payoff?
Let's see. Before Cal was at Memphis, he was at UMass. He took a complete piece of junk with no tradition, no brand, that had 10 straight losing seasons, averaging 2,700 per game; and had them in the tournament by his 4th year with attendance up 50%, and attendance up more than 2 1/2 times and into the Sweet 16.
Cal's last 5 seasons at UMass, he went Sweet 16, Round of 32, Round of 32, Elite 8 and Final Four, and won 11 tournament games with attendance almost 4 times what it was before he got there. This is at a piece of crap like UMass.
So when Cal doesn't turn things around right away, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt especially when he recruits at a high level, AND especially when tickets sold increase to 17,110 from 11,974 the previous season.
What is the payoff with Tubby? He has one NCAA win in the last 10 years, is 66 years old, is recruiting at a mediocre level and ticket sales are plummeting. What is a reasonable expectation to have with Tubby as our coach? If we can expect for him to be in the tournament in year 3 we certainly can't expect him to win a game, and we certainly can't expect for 68 year old Tubby to be in the tournament in year 4 or win a game.
There is no payoff with Tubby.
Comparison to Calipari? Good luck. He's a once in an era coach. Like him or not, there's no one else like him.
We were all hoping for Marshall, but he declined the job. Same with Buzz. I believe in the team we have in Memphis, they brought us Fuente and Norvell. I think they found a guy that could turn us around. He's not the coach of the future, I seriously doubt he'll work past his current contract. And if he doesn't turn it around, maybe not that long.
Some other names considered. Forbes, Kennedy, Pearl? No thanks. As much as I love Memphis basketball, we couldn't lure a high profile coach (again) despite our history and resources (and big time pay).
So we got Tubby. Not a dang thing any of us can do about it. So I'm not going to incessantly whine about it. Either he does it or not. I could care less what he's done before (national championship or last ten years). All that's irrelevant. I think he did OK at dismal programs, others don't. I know he brought TT out of the cellar in three years. I think he'll do it here.
We all thought Tubby was doing a good job last year until the end. Why the downturn? Fatigue or Lawsons? I don't know, but while being our best players, they were extremely polarizing. They're gone now (thankfully) and we move on. We're in on some good players and I think we sign a good class, one that fills positions in need.
Was he doing well when Memphis lost a home game to Monmouth? A game in which Memphis had a double-digit 2nd half lead?
How about vs. a less that intimidating Ole Miss team? Certainly OM was out-talenting Memphis, right?
[/quote
Was he doing well when we beat SC?
He was doing great when we beat USC without their best player. You don't seem to understand that it isn't a 1 game season.
I'm not going to go tit for tat with you again. SC was good even without Thornwell.
Go ahead and get in the last word, I just don't have the time to waste today..
(08-31-2017 11:06 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not going to go tit for tat with you again. SC was good even without Thornwell.
USCe was 2-3 (.400) w/o Thornwell and 23-8 (.742) with him.
He literally led USCe's in:
Points
Rebounds
3pt shots made and taken
Steals
Assists per game
FT's made, attempted, and %
and second on the team in:
blocks
3pt %
(08-31-2017 11:06 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:41 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:35 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:33 AM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:30 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm glad you brought this up. Yes, rebuilding takes time and most fans understand that, you are 100% correct. However, when you compare two scenarios where you give coaches time, you have to ask one very important question.
What is the payoff?
Let's see. Before Cal was at Memphis, he was at UMass. He took a complete piece of junk with no tradition, no brand, that had 10 straight losing seasons, averaging 2,700 per game; and had them in the tournament by his 4th year with attendance up 50%, and attendance up more than 2 1/2 times and into the Sweet 16.
Cal's last 5 seasons at UMass, he went Sweet 16, Round of 32, Round of 32, Elite 8 and Final Four, and won 11 tournament games with attendance almost 4 times what it was before he got there. This is at a piece of crap like UMass.
So when Cal doesn't turn things around right away, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt especially when he recruits at a high level, AND especially when tickets sold increase to 17,110 from 11,974 the previous season.
What is the payoff with Tubby? He has one NCAA win in the last 10 years, is 66 years old, is recruiting at a mediocre level and ticket sales are plummeting. What is a reasonable expectation to have with Tubby as our coach? If we can expect for him to be in the tournament in year 3 we certainly can't expect him to win a game, and we certainly can't expect for 68 year old Tubby to be in the tournament in year 4 or win a game.
There is no payoff with Tubby.
Comparison to Calipari? Good luck. He's a once in an era coach. Like him or not, there's no one else like him.
We were all hoping for Marshall, but he declined the job. Same with Buzz. I believe in the team we have in Memphis, they brought us Fuente and Norvell. I think they found a guy that could turn us around. He's not the coach of the future, I seriously doubt he'll work past his current contract. And if he doesn't turn it around, maybe not that long.
Some other names considered. Forbes, Kennedy, Pearl? No thanks. As much as I love Memphis basketball, we couldn't lure a high profile coach (again) despite our history and resources (and big time pay).
So we got Tubby. Not a dang thing any of us can do about it. So I'm not going to incessantly whine about it. Either he does it or not. I could care less what he's done before (national championship or last ten years). All that's irrelevant. I think he did OK at dismal programs, others don't. I know he brought TT out of the cellar in three years. I think he'll do it here.
We all thought Tubby was doing a good job last year until the end. Why the downturn? Fatigue or Lawsons? I don't know, but while being our best players, they were extremely polarizing. They're gone now (thankfully) and we move on. We're in on some good players and I think we sign a good class, one that fills positions in need.
Was he doing well when Memphis lost a home game to Monmouth? A game in which Memphis had a double-digit 2nd half lead?
How about vs. a less that intimidating Ole Miss team? Certainly OM was out-talenting Memphis, right?
[/quote
Was he doing well when we beat SC?
He was doing great when we beat USC without their best player. You don't seem to understand that it isn't a 1 game season.
I'm not going to go tit for tat with you again. SC was good even without Thornwell.
Go ahead and get in the last word, I just don't have the time to waste today..
Again, it isn't a 1 game season.
(08-31-2017 10:58 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:52 AM)450bench Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:45 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:40 AM)450bench Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers ---- please understand this one point ---- my personal responses or comments ARE NOT intended to be pro Tubby!!! They are intended to be anti-judging him and his staff right now!!
I understand that it may not seem that way HOWEVER since a few here, yourself included of course, seem to be soooooo against the man and his staff, my points and those of others I'm sure, are simply intended to slow down the premature judgement of the staff and the players...
I get bashed for my wait and see approach and that's fine but that's the most reasonable approach at this point, in my opinion.
I'm not bashing anyone for their wait and see approach; I admire it actually and I usually have a positive outlook and wish I had the same approach with Tubby.
The difference between us is how we look at what Tubby has done between Point A and Point B. You are saying, let's wait and see how Point B turns out. I'm saying that everything leading up to it has been a disaster.
I'm saying that building a basketball program is no different from building a rocket. If the math doesn't work and you aren't using materials that are up to spec, you shouldn't expect the rocket to work.
That's a very fair statement. Last point by me though, using your statement, we don't know if the materials being used are up to spec or not. Not yet at least. We are speculating on their quality. We'll know as the season begins and progresses.
Technically speaking, maybe a better comparison would be a winemaker that has the best grapes and the best resources, but isn't very skilled at making wine, versus a highly skilled winemaker who isn't working with the best grapes.
In a nutshell, that is the difference between Pastner and Tubby. I guess what many are saying is that there are limits on the quality of wine you can produce with a certain level of grape.
So many winemakers have a huge head start on Tubby because they are working with grapes that are universally considered to be better than what Tubby will be working with.
I think a lot of us, for or against Tubby, will need that wine before season's end!
(08-31-2017 11:59 AM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:58 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:52 AM)450bench Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:45 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 10:40 AM)450bench Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers ---- please understand this one point ---- my personal responses or comments ARE NOT intended to be pro Tubby!!! They are intended to be anti-judging him and his staff right now!!
I understand that it may not seem that way HOWEVER since a few here, yourself included of course, seem to be soooooo against the man and his staff, my points and those of others I'm sure, are simply intended to slow down the premature judgement of the staff and the players...
I get bashed for my wait and see approach and that's fine but that's the most reasonable approach at this point, in my opinion.
I'm not bashing anyone for their wait and see approach; I admire it actually and I usually have a positive outlook and wish I had the same approach with Tubby.
The difference between us is how we look at what Tubby has done between Point A and Point B. You are saying, let's wait and see how Point B turns out. I'm saying that everything leading up to it has been a disaster.
I'm saying that building a basketball program is no different from building a rocket. If the math doesn't work and you aren't using materials that are up to spec, you shouldn't expect the rocket to work.
That's a very fair statement. Last point by me though, using your statement, we don't know if the materials being used are up to spec or not. Not yet at least. We are speculating on their quality. We'll know as the season begins and progresses.
Technically speaking, maybe a better comparison would be a winemaker that has the best grapes and the best resources, but isn't very skilled at making wine, versus a highly skilled winemaker who isn't working with the best grapes.
In a nutshell, that is the difference between Pastner and Tubby. I guess what many are saying is that there are limits on the quality of wine you can produce with a certain level of grape.
So many winemakers have a huge head start on Tubby because they are working with grapes that are universally considered to be better than what Tubby will be working with.
I think a lot of us, for or against Tubby, will need that wine before season's end!
Or something stronger.....
If the beatdowns start and continue... it's gonna be a long season.
I have four couches-- one of which I will happily burn. Then I'm BOH
Life is too short to mess with my dopamine receptors.
(08-31-2017 12:35 PM)snowtiger Wrote: [ -> ]If the beatdowns start and continue... it's gonna be a long season.
I have four couches-- one of which I will happily burn. Then I'm BOH
Life is too short to mess with my dopamine receptors.
Probably best to take a break for a year then...
(08-31-2017 12:56 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 12:35 PM)snowtiger Wrote: [ -> ]If the beatdowns start and continue... it's gonna be a long season.
I have four couches-- one of which I will happily burn. Then I'm BOH
Life is too short to mess with my dopamine receptors.
Probably best to take a break for a year then...
lol I'm in the wait and see camp.
According to Mark G, schools have "cooled" on Vanover. We will likely land him.
Is Conor Vanover the next Garcia-Simpkins?
(08-31-2017 06:13 PM)mphsfan Wrote: [ -> ]Is Conor Vanover the next Garcia-Simpkins?
I dunno but I've wondered the same thing. Did we pray for anybody in that thread?
(08-31-2017 08:59 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-31-2017 12:11 AM)bcspiker Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2017 08:30 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2017 05:56 PM)bcspiker Wrote: [ -> ] (08-30-2017 01:10 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ]It isn't complicated; a smart 6 year old could figure it out. Bill Self could get virtually any open job in the entire NCAA because he is a great coach RIGHT NOW. Tubby hasn't been considered a great coach or even a good coach for over a decade. He is a has been.
Now you are making up crap to try and justify the nonsense is coming out of you. According to the entire planet with the exception of Rudd, Bowen and 5 posters on this board; Tubby's place was Texas Tech making $1.6 million per year; thrilling them with a trip to the tournament every 3 years, and maybe winning a single NCAA game before retirement.
NOTHING Tubby did in 2005 is relevant. 87 coaches have more NCAA wins than him in the last 10 years. 80 schools have signed a top 150 recruit in the last 2 years. He is FINISHED.
Your right. Self could get just about any job he wanted .... and Tubby could only get the one that pays 3 million at (as you have repeatedly pointed out) a school with a great "brand" and lots of inherent advantages that should lead to success. Yea your right, thats a really sucky job.
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Yes, and 80% of the fanbase is pissed that we hired someone who was less successful than Pastner and paid him double what he is worth.
Nope. Just you and about 4-5 others on here. The media may not like his general feeling that they are a necessary evil and have acted accordingly but those actually employed in college basketball think his hiring was a good idea.
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Everyone is happy and excited, correct? The unhappiness is just a few people on a message board, correct? Tickets sold will be back over 15,000 per game, correct?
Eventually. Big ships turning around and all.
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