(07-25-2017 04:27 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:24 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:10 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 03:33 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 12:28 PM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]The expectation will be to "make" the tourney. He does that and folks will demand the miserables shoo off because Tubby will have succeeded.
Merely making the tourney is the new gold standard.
Making the tourney is the new reality for where we are. Most of us agreed even BEFORE Tubby was hired and based upon how the program had sunk:
Year 2, NIT
Year 3, NCAA tourney
Year 4 and on - challenge for S16's and deeper runs
Making the tourney is not the destination. I don't think anyone has set that as the gold standard.
Tubby has set that as the gold standard the last 11 years of his career and is continuing on that trajectory at Memphis based on roster retention and ability to recruit. He hasn't made it into the 2nd weekend of the tournament in 12 years, going on 13, so I don't know how anyone can expect him to do it here. There is no doubt in my mind that making the tournament IS the gold standard for Tubby. That is the problem with the hire.
Pitino's kids won the NC for Tubby. Got worse as they dwindled out over the next season or two.
He went 32-4 in 2003 with his own players before getting knocked out of the tournament by a future NBA Hall of Famer.... But ok.....
How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
(07-26-2017 01:17 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:27 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:24 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:10 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 03:33 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ]Making the tourney is the new reality for where we are. Most of us agreed even BEFORE Tubby was hired and based upon how the program had sunk:
Year 2, NIT
Year 3, NCAA tourney
Year 4 and on - challenge for S16's and deeper runs
Making the tourney is not the destination. I don't think anyone has set that as the gold standard.
Tubby has set that as the gold standard the last 11 years of his career and is continuing on that trajectory at Memphis based on roster retention and ability to recruit. He hasn't made it into the 2nd weekend of the tournament in 12 years, going on 13, so I don't know how anyone can expect him to do it here. There is no doubt in my mind that making the tournament IS the gold standard for Tubby. That is the problem with the hire.
Pitino's kids won the NC for Tubby. Got worse as they dwindled out over the next season or two.
He went 32-4 in 2003 with his own players before getting knocked out of the tournament by a future NBA Hall of Famer.... But ok.....
How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
Tubby has won at schools that are hard to win at. Minnesota hadn't been to the tourney in 9 years. He took them 3 out of the 6 years he was there. Texas Tech hadn't been since Bobby Knight left. He made it in year 3. Memphis is in an easier conference and he's in a better position to win here.
I think he'll win here starting in year 3. Hopefully make a nice NCAA run. The guys a very good coach.
Lomax is the same player he was before they updated the rankings. He doesn't score a lot (doesn't need to), but he's a very good 4 year point guard.
(07-26-2017 01:17 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:27 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:24 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:10 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 03:33 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ]Making the tourney is the new reality for where we are. Most of us agreed even BEFORE Tubby was hired and based upon how the program had sunk:
Year 2, NIT
Year 3, NCAA tourney
Year 4 and on - challenge for S16's and deeper runs
Making the tourney is not the destination. I don't think anyone has set that as the gold standard.
Tubby has set that as the gold standard the last 11 years of his career and is continuing on that trajectory at Memphis based on roster retention and ability to recruit. He hasn't made it into the 2nd weekend of the tournament in 12 years, going on 13, so I don't know how anyone can expect him to do it here. There is no doubt in my mind that making the tournament IS the gold standard for Tubby. That is the problem with the hire.
Pitino's kids won the NC for Tubby. Got worse as they dwindled out over the next season or two.
He went 32-4 in 2003 with his own players before getting knocked out of the tournament by a future NBA Hall of Famer.... But ok.....
How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
Everyone from Memphis in 2018 is a three star now. Everybody got dropped.
EASY(TJ Moss) was hit the hardest. I feel bad for the kid, going from 100+ to the 200s has to be tough on a young kid.
That AAU circuit is brutal.
(07-26-2017 08:06 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 01:17 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:27 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:24 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:10 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ]Tubby has set that as the gold standard the last 11 years of his career and is continuing on that trajectory at Memphis based on roster retention and ability to recruit. He hasn't made it into the 2nd weekend of the tournament in 12 years, going on 13, so I don't know how anyone can expect him to do it here. There is no doubt in my mind that making the tournament IS the gold standard for Tubby. That is the problem with the hire.
Pitino's kids won the NC for Tubby. Got worse as they dwindled out over the next season or two.
He went 32-4 in 2003 with his own players before getting knocked out of the tournament by a future NBA Hall of Famer.... But ok.....
How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
Everyone from Memphis in 2018 is a three star now. Everybody got dropped.
EASY(TJ Moss) was hit the hardest. I feel bad for the kid, going from 100+ to the 200s has to be tough on a young kid.
That AAU circuit is brutal.
It's understandable that many of these young men develop a mercenary mindset.
(07-25-2017 04:24 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:10 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 03:33 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 12:28 PM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]The expectation will be to "make" the tourney. He does that and folks will demand the miserables shoo off because Tubby will have succeeded.
Merely making the tourney is the new gold standard.
Making the tourney is the new reality for where we are. Most of us agreed even BEFORE Tubby was hired and based upon how the program had sunk:
Year 2, NIT
Year 3, NCAA tourney
Year 4 and on - challenge for S16's and deeper runs
Making the tourney is not the destination. I don't think anyone has set that as the gold standard.
Tubby has set that as the gold standard the last 11 years of his career and is continuing on that trajectory at Memphis based on roster retention and ability to recruit. He hasn't made it into the 2nd weekend of the tournament in 12 years, going on 13, so I don't know how anyone can expect him to do it here. There is no doubt in my mind that making the tournament IS the gold standard for Tubby. That is the problem with the hire.
Pitino's kids won the NC for Tubby. Got worse as they dwindled out over the next season or two.
He still made three Elite 8's and two Sweet 16's at Kentucky. Minnesota fired him AFTER he won his only NCAA tournament game there after 7 years. I would guess that circumstances were the same as with us after the 2014 season. Everyone knew then that if Pastner couldn't make the Sweet 16 with that roster, it wasn't going to happen for him at Memphis. Minnesota was in a better position to turf Tubby than we were with Pastner.
(07-25-2017 09:51 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:08 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 12:56 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ]More information on the updates. There's no longer a 4* in the city of Memphis for 2018 in the 247 composite.
Tyler Harris - 3* - 91.4
Alex Lomax - 3* - 90.39
Ryan Boyce - 3* - 89.64
Rodgerick Brown 3* - 88.56
T. J. Moss 3* - 88.28
Tyler Harris is the highest ranked at #131.
Not good. Let's hope this changes, but it appears no one in the city helped their stock during the summer.
The last 4* is now ranked #120, in the 2018 class.
One of the geniuses, I can't remember who, the guy that doesn't care about class rankings, said that one year you could have 75 four stars and the next year 200 of them; and then claimed that this insane comment was "hypothetical." The range seems to be between 130-160 if I remember correctly; which I don't and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.
So now Lomax is a 3* ranked #154 on the 247 composite. I actually also don't care if he is 104 or 154 or that he has gone down from over a 95 rating to .9034 today. He didn't all of a sudden become a 3* recruit overnight and all of a sudden lose 5 full rating points.
He is a good recruit who should be expected to be a solid backup D1 point guard and right now he is probably going to be one of our higher ranked recruits if we manage to sign him.
Jeez dude. Are you that hung up on a number? Do you think they have all the kids together, playing against one another, with the same judges scoring them? There are thousands of recruits. Some are absolutely above the field. The Tyrekes, Will Bartons, Derrick Rose types. They would be in the NBA immediately if the rules were different. Those guys stand out.
After that it becomes more difficult. These are estimates. I showed you a Wisconsin team last year without a top 100 recruit. Wichita State had one, and he was the fifth or sixth scorer on that team. He was outclassed by lower recruits.
Lomax won't be a career backup. He will be a starter for most teams in his second year. He won't be a 15ppg guy. He'll limit turnovers, lead the team, and play solid defense. His offers are increasing. Since you've never seen the kid play, you see absolutely nothing but a number. You watch YouTube and that makes you a better judge of talent than the coaches that are pursuing them.
We'll see what kind of player he'll be. Lots of us here thought Chiozza was going to be a good player (despite his size). I think we were proven right.
You honestly are a little thick and now I am sure that you are trolling on purpose.
Quote:Jeez dude. Are you that hung up on a number?
Mere seconds after I said that I don't care if Lomax is 104 or 154.
Quote:I showed you a Wisconsin team last year without a top 100 recruit. Wichita State had one, and he was the fifth or sixth scorer on that team. He was outclassed by lower recruits.
You keep making this insane argument and you aren't smart enough to realize that it makes Tubby look even crappier by comparison. Do you know what Wisconsin has done in the last 10 years? Two Final Fours including a national runner up; five Sweet 16's and 20 NCAA wins. Wichita State has one Final Four, one Sweet 16 and 9 NCAA wins.
Tubby of course has 1 single solitary NCAA win during the same time period. Tubby has proven that he can't win using his tried and true formula. The idea at Memphis is that we are better than his last two **** jobs, have infinitely better facilities, an infinitely better brand and an infinitely better recruiting base. The aim was NOT to gut 75% of the roster, fail to recruit at a higher level and stockpile jucos which will make a complete rebuild necessary in 2 years.
Quote:We'll see what kind of player he'll be. Lots of us here thought Chiozza was going to be a good player (despite his size). I think we were proven right.
Quote:Lomax won't be a career backup. He will be a starter for most teams in his second year.
Chris Chiozza despite being ranked a full 100 spots higher than Lomax is at best an average D1 point guard. You are now expecting Lomax to be his equal; which is insane.
You keep making bizarre assertions about me only caring about numbers when in fact, you only seem to care about the composite ratings and don't understand that Lomax is somewhere between 120 and his current 153. These ratings are all relative when there are over 120 players in his class that are better.
So now the scorecard is tipped very heavily in my favour, based on me having common sense and you completely lacking it. To you, Lomax is somehow weirdly close to Elliot Williams. To me, he is someone that should somewhere in between Chris Chiozza, Willie Kemp, Andre Allen and Antonio Barton as far as production goes.
(07-26-2017 08:34 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 09:51 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:08 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 12:56 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ]More information on the updates. There's no longer a 4* in the city of Memphis for 2018 in the 247 composite.
Tyler Harris - 3* - 91.4
Alex Lomax - 3* - 90.39
Ryan Boyce - 3* - 89.64
Rodgerick Brown 3* - 88.56
T. J. Moss 3* - 88.28
Tyler Harris is the highest ranked at #131.
Not good. Let's hope this changes, but it appears no one in the city helped their stock during the summer.
The last 4* is now ranked #120, in the 2018 class.
One of the geniuses, I can't remember who, the guy that doesn't care about class rankings, said that one year you could have 75 four stars and the next year 200 of them; and then claimed that this insane comment was "hypothetical." The range seems to be between 130-160 if I remember correctly; which I don't and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.
So now Lomax is a 3* ranked #154 on the 247 composite. I actually also don't care if he is 104 or 154 or that he has gone down from over a 95 rating to .9034 today. He didn't all of a sudden become a 3* recruit overnight and all of a sudden lose 5 full rating points.
He is a good recruit who should be expected to be a solid backup D1 point guard and right now he is probably going to be one of our higher ranked recruits if we manage to sign him.
Jeez dude. Are you that hung up on a number? Do you think they have all the kids together, playing against one another, with the same judges scoring them? There are thousands of recruits. Some are absolutely above the field. The Tyrekes, Will Bartons, Derrick Rose types. They would be in the NBA immediately if the rules were different. Those guys stand out.
After that it becomes more difficult. These are estimates. I showed you a Wisconsin team last year without a top 100 recruit. Wichita State had one, and he was the fifth or sixth scorer on that team. He was outclassed by lower recruits.
Lomax won't be a career backup. He will be a starter for most teams in his second year. He won't be a 15ppg guy. He'll limit turnovers, lead the team, and play solid defense. His offers are increasing. Since you've never seen the kid play, you see absolutely nothing but a number. You watch YouTube and that makes you a better judge of talent than the coaches that are pursuing them.
We'll see what kind of player he'll be. Lots of us here thought Chiozza was going to be a good player (despite his size). I think we were proven right.
You honestly are a little thick and now I am sure that you are trolling on purpose.
Quote:Jeez dude. Are you that hung up on a number?
Mere seconds after I said that I don't care if Lomax is 104 or 154.
Quote:I showed you a Wisconsin team last year without a top 100 recruit. Wichita State had one, and he was the fifth or sixth scorer on that team. He was outclassed by lower recruits.
You keep making this insane argument and you aren't smart enough to realize that it makes Tubby look even crappier by comparison. Do you know what Wisconsin has done in the last 10 years? Two Final Fours including a national runner up; five Sweet 16's and 20 NCAA wins. Wichita State has one Final Four, one Sweet 16 and 9 NCAA wins.
Tubby of course has 1 single solitary NCAA win during the same time period. Tubby has proven that he can't win using his tried and true formula. The idea at Memphis is that we are better than his last two **** jobs, have infinitely better facilities, an infinitely better brand and an infinitely better recruiting base. The aim was NOT to gut 75% of the roster, fail to recruit at a higher level and stockpile jucos which will make a complete rebuild necessary in 2 years.
Quote:We'll see what kind of player he'll be. Lots of us here thought Chiozza was going to be a good player (despite his size). I think we were proven right.
Quote:Lomax won't be a career backup. He will be a starter for most teams in his second year.
Chris Chiozza despite being ranked a full 100 spots higher than Lomax is at best an average D1 point guard. You are now expecting Lomax to be his equal; which is insane.
You keep making bizarre assertions about me only caring about numbers when in fact, you only seem to care about the composite ratings and don't understand that Lomax is somewhere between 120 and his current 153. These ratings are all relative when there are over 120 players in his class that are better.
So now the scorecard is tipped very heavily in my favour, based on me having common sense and you completely lacking it. To you, Lomax is somehow weirdly close to Elliot Williams. To me, he is someone that should somewhere in between Chris Chiozza, Willie Kemp, Andre Allen and Antonio Barton as far as production goes.
Chris Chiozza got stuck behind Kasey Hill. He's never average over 25 mpg. It's not really fair to call him average.
Oh I think he'll be a good 4 year player, was just asking if that happened? Dropping to a 3*. You shouldnt really look at a player ratings until after their Sr seasons (or whenever the last update is) that would be logically the most accurate rating of a player (in terms of how accurate they can actually get)
(07-26-2017 08:37 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 08:34 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 09:51 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:08 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 12:56 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ]More information on the updates. There's no longer a 4* in the city of Memphis for 2018 in the 247 composite.
Tyler Harris - 3* - 91.4
Alex Lomax - 3* - 90.39
Ryan Boyce - 3* - 89.64
Rodgerick Brown 3* - 88.56
T. J. Moss 3* - 88.28
Tyler Harris is the highest ranked at #131.
Not good. Let's hope this changes, but it appears no one in the city helped their stock during the summer.
The last 4* is now ranked #120, in the 2018 class.
One of the geniuses, I can't remember who, the guy that doesn't care about class rankings, said that one year you could have 75 four stars and the next year 200 of them; and then claimed that this insane comment was "hypothetical." The range seems to be between 130-160 if I remember correctly; which I don't and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.
So now Lomax is a 3* ranked #154 on the 247 composite. I actually also don't care if he is 104 or 154 or that he has gone down from over a 95 rating to .9034 today. He didn't all of a sudden become a 3* recruit overnight and all of a sudden lose 5 full rating points.
He is a good recruit who should be expected to be a solid backup D1 point guard and right now he is probably going to be one of our higher ranked recruits if we manage to sign him.
Jeez dude. Are you that hung up on a number? Do you think they have all the kids together, playing against one another, with the same judges scoring them? There are thousands of recruits. Some are absolutely above the field. The Tyrekes, Will Bartons, Derrick Rose types. They would be in the NBA immediately if the rules were different. Those guys stand out.
After that it becomes more difficult. These are estimates. I showed you a Wisconsin team last year without a top 100 recruit. Wichita State had one, and he was the fifth or sixth scorer on that team. He was outclassed by lower recruits.
Lomax won't be a career backup. He will be a starter for most teams in his second year. He won't be a 15ppg guy. He'll limit turnovers, lead the team, and play solid defense. His offers are increasing. Since you've never seen the kid play, you see absolutely nothing but a number. You watch YouTube and that makes you a better judge of talent than the coaches that are pursuing them.
We'll see what kind of player he'll be. Lots of us here thought Chiozza was going to be a good player (despite his size). I think we were proven right.
You honestly are a little thick and now I am sure that you are trolling on purpose.
Quote:Jeez dude. Are you that hung up on a number?
Mere seconds after I said that I don't care if Lomax is 104 or 154.
Quote:I showed you a Wisconsin team last year without a top 100 recruit. Wichita State had one, and he was the fifth or sixth scorer on that team. He was outclassed by lower recruits.
You keep making this insane argument and you aren't smart enough to realize that it makes Tubby look even crappier by comparison. Do you know what Wisconsin has done in the last 10 years? Two Final Fours including a national runner up; five Sweet 16's and 20 NCAA wins. Wichita State has one Final Four, one Sweet 16 and 9 NCAA wins.
Tubby of course has 1 single solitary NCAA win during the same time period. Tubby has proven that he can't win using his tried and true formula. The idea at Memphis is that we are better than his last two **** jobs, have infinitely better facilities, an infinitely better brand and an infinitely better recruiting base. The aim was NOT to gut 75% of the roster, fail to recruit at a higher level and stockpile jucos which will make a complete rebuild necessary in 2 years.
Quote:We'll see what kind of player he'll be. Lots of us here thought Chiozza was going to be a good player (despite his size). I think we were proven right.
Quote:Lomax won't be a career backup. He will be a starter for most teams in his second year.
Chris Chiozza despite being ranked a full 100 spots higher than Lomax is at best an average D1 point guard. You are now expecting Lomax to be his equal; which is insane.
You keep making bizarre assertions about me only caring about numbers when in fact, you only seem to care about the composite ratings and don't understand that Lomax is somewhere between 120 and his current 153. These ratings are all relative when there are over 120 players in his class that are better.
So now the scorecard is tipped very heavily in my favour, based on me having common sense and you completely lacking it. To you, Lomax is somehow weirdly close to Elliot Williams. To me, he is someone that should somewhere in between Chris Chiozza, Willie Kemp, Andre Allen and Antonio Barton as far as production goes.
Chris Chiozza got stuck behind Kasey Hill. He's never average over 25 mpg. It's not really fair to call him average.
I'm glad that you brought up Kasey Hill because he is an example that might FINALLY knock some sense into you people. Kasey Hill a 5*, was the #8 ranked recruit in the entire country with a rating of .9966.
In his senior season he averaged 9.7 points per game on 40.5% shooting, 20.5% from 3, 66.2% free throw percentage with an assist to turnover ratio of 1.45/1. This was the #8 ranked recruit in the entire country.
Chiozza was the #44 ranked recruit in the country; a 4* with a rating of .9822. He averaged 7.2 points per game as a junior and has never shot well from the field or from outside.
Lomax is the #153 ranked recruit, now a 3* with a rating of .9036. I have already said that it doesn't matter if he is #103 or 153; a reasonable expectation for a player with his ranking is to be a serviceable backup point guard. It is NOT to be running an NCAA caliber team by his sophomore season; it just isn't.
Call it like it is and a few of you cry like little babies. You are doing Lomax a disservice by expecting too much from him. If he manages to be better than what I am saying, it will be a big surprise, a huge bonus and against all rational odds.
(07-26-2017 08:15 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:24 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:10 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 03:33 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 12:28 PM)salukiblue Wrote: [ -> ]The expectation will be to "make" the tourney. He does that and folks will demand the miserables shoo off because Tubby will have succeeded.
Merely making the tourney is the new gold standard.
Making the tourney is the new reality for where we are. Most of us agreed even BEFORE Tubby was hired and based upon how the program had sunk:
Year 2, NIT
Year 3, NCAA tourney
Year 4 and on - challenge for S16's and deeper runs
Making the tourney is not the destination. I don't think anyone has set that as the gold standard.
Tubby has set that as the gold standard the last 11 years of his career and is continuing on that trajectory at Memphis based on roster retention and ability to recruit. He hasn't made it into the 2nd weekend of the tournament in 12 years, going on 13, so I don't know how anyone can expect him to do it here. There is no doubt in my mind that making the tournament IS the gold standard for Tubby. That is the problem with the hire.
Pitino's kids won the NC for Tubby. Got worse as they dwindled out over the next season or two.
He still made three Elite 8's and two Sweet 16's at Kentucky. Minnesota fired him AFTER he won his only NCAA tournament game there after 7 years. I would guess that circumstances were the same as with us after the 2014 season. Everyone knew then that if Pastner couldn't make the Sweet 16 with that roster, it wasn't going to happen for him at Memphis. Minnesota was in a better position to turf Tubby than we were with Pastner.
it's a blue blood school with numerous championships, 96, runner up in 97, another championship in 98. Recruiting is much easier when you're on that kind of a roll, and begin your tenure with a NC with the previous coach's players. After that they missed the final four for the next 9 years, which is what their "Gold Standard" is. I hope Tubby succeeds here, I am just not sure if he has the tenacity that's needed to get the players to buy into a program's methodology. Pastner did well before the word got out he couldn't develop players for the "Next Level." If he could have gotten a strong AC for the last two or 3 seasons, things may be different.
Go Tigers!
(07-26-2017 09:22 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 08:37 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 08:34 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 09:51 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:08 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ]One of the geniuses, I can't remember who, the guy that doesn't care about class rankings, said that one year you could have 75 four stars and the next year 200 of them; and then claimed that this insane comment was "hypothetical." The range seems to be between 130-160 if I remember correctly; which I don't and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.
So now Lomax is a 3* ranked #154 on the 247 composite. I actually also don't care if he is 104 or 154 or that he has gone down from over a 95 rating to .9034 today. He didn't all of a sudden become a 3* recruit overnight and all of a sudden lose 5 full rating points.
He is a good recruit who should be expected to be a solid backup D1 point guard and right now he is probably going to be one of our higher ranked recruits if we manage to sign him.
Jeez dude. Are you that hung up on a number? Do you think they have all the kids together, playing against one another, with the same judges scoring them? There are thousands of recruits. Some are absolutely above the field. The Tyrekes, Will Bartons, Derrick Rose types. They would be in the NBA immediately if the rules were different. Those guys stand out.
After that it becomes more difficult. These are estimates. I showed you a Wisconsin team last year without a top 100 recruit. Wichita State had one, and he was the fifth or sixth scorer on that team. He was outclassed by lower recruits.
Lomax won't be a career backup. He will be a starter for most teams in his second year. He won't be a 15ppg guy. He'll limit turnovers, lead the team, and play solid defense. His offers are increasing. Since you've never seen the kid play, you see absolutely nothing but a number. You watch YouTube and that makes you a better judge of talent than the coaches that are pursuing them.
We'll see what kind of player he'll be. Lots of us here thought Chiozza was going to be a good player (despite his size). I think we were proven right.
You honestly are a little thick and now I am sure that you are trolling on purpose.
Quote:Jeez dude. Are you that hung up on a number?
Mere seconds after I said that I don't care if Lomax is 104 or 154.
Quote:I showed you a Wisconsin team last year without a top 100 recruit. Wichita State had one, and he was the fifth or sixth scorer on that team. He was outclassed by lower recruits.
You keep making this insane argument and you aren't smart enough to realize that it makes Tubby look even crappier by comparison. Do you know what Wisconsin has done in the last 10 years? Two Final Fours including a national runner up; five Sweet 16's and 20 NCAA wins. Wichita State has one Final Four, one Sweet 16 and 9 NCAA wins.
Tubby of course has 1 single solitary NCAA win during the same time period. Tubby has proven that he can't win using his tried and true formula. The idea at Memphis is that we are better than his last two **** jobs, have infinitely better facilities, an infinitely better brand and an infinitely better recruiting base. The aim was NOT to gut 75% of the roster, fail to recruit at a higher level and stockpile jucos which will make a complete rebuild necessary in 2 years.
Quote:We'll see what kind of player he'll be. Lots of us here thought Chiozza was going to be a good player (despite his size). I think we were proven right.
Quote:Lomax won't be a career backup. He will be a starter for most teams in his second year.
Chris Chiozza despite being ranked a full 100 spots higher than Lomax is at best an average D1 point guard. You are now expecting Lomax to be his equal; which is insane.
You keep making bizarre assertions about me only caring about numbers when in fact, you only seem to care about the composite ratings and don't understand that Lomax is somewhere between 120 and his current 153. These ratings are all relative when there are over 120 players in his class that are better.
So now the scorecard is tipped very heavily in my favour, based on me having common sense and you completely lacking it. To you, Lomax is somehow weirdly close to Elliot Williams. To me, he is someone that should somewhere in between Chris Chiozza, Willie Kemp, Andre Allen and Antonio Barton as far as production goes.
Chris Chiozza got stuck behind Kasey Hill. He's never average over 25 mpg. It's not really fair to call him average.
I'm glad that you brought up Kasey Hill because he is an example that might FINALLY knock some sense into you people. Kasey Hill a 5*, was the #8 ranked recruit in the entire country with a rating of .9966.
In his senior season he averaged 9.7 points per game on 40.5% shooting, 20.5% from 3, 66.2% free throw percentage with an assist to turnover ratio of 1.45/1. This was the #8 ranked recruit in the entire country.
Chiozza was the #44 ranked recruit in the country; a 4* with a rating of .9822. He averaged 7.2 points per game as a junior and has never shot well from the field or from outside.
Lomax is the #153 ranked recruit, now a 3* with a rating of .9036. I have already said that it doesn't matter if he is #103 or 153; a reasonable expectation for a player with his ranking is to be a serviceable backup point guard. It is NOT to be running an NCAA caliber team by his sophomore season; it just isn't.
Call it like it is and a few of you cry like little babies. You are doing Lomax a disservice by expecting too much from him. If he manages to be better than what I am saying, it will be a big surprise, a huge bonus and against all rational odds.
Again, stuck on numbers. I think Lomax will be a better point guard than Chiozza, who is pretty darn good. I've seen them both play a lot, they are different type players, but I'd say Lomax is a better player at this stage. I could care less what his ranking is.
As I mentioned (and everyone knows), the top 20-30 or so guys are usually head and shoulders above the rest. They are no brainers. Many of them could go straight to the NBA. Take out those guys and it's much more uncertain.
(07-26-2017 08:06 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 01:17 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:27 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:24 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:10 PM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ]Tubby has set that as the gold standard the last 11 years of his career and is continuing on that trajectory at Memphis based on roster retention and ability to recruit. He hasn't made it into the 2nd weekend of the tournament in 12 years, going on 13, so I don't know how anyone can expect him to do it here. There is no doubt in my mind that making the tournament IS the gold standard for Tubby. That is the problem with the hire.
Pitino's kids won the NC for Tubby. Got worse as they dwindled out over the next season or two.
He went 32-4 in 2003 with his own players before getting knocked out of the tournament by a future NBA Hall of Famer.... But ok.....
How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
Everyone from Memphis in 2018 is a three star now. Everybody got dropped.
EASY(TJ Moss) was hit the hardest. I feel bad for the kid, going from 100+ to the 200s has to be tough on a young kid.
That AAU circuit is brutal.
When I was doing the recruiting thread update, I was amazed to see just about ALL Memphis area players dropped a star. Summer circuit has been tough on them. Hard to believe they were ALL overrated. We shall see.
One who did improve his stock, though, was 2019 Collum moved up to a 4-star.
(07-26-2017 04:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 08:06 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 01:17 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:27 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:24 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ]Pitino's kids won the NC for Tubby. Got worse as they dwindled out over the next season or two.
He went 32-4 in 2003 with his own players before getting knocked out of the tournament by a future NBA Hall of Famer.... But ok.....
How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
Everyone from Memphis in 2018 is a three star now. Everybody got dropped.
EASY(TJ Moss) was hit the hardest. I feel bad for the kid, going from 100+ to the 200s has to be tough on a young kid.
That AAU circuit is brutal.
When I was doing the recruiting thread update, I was amazed to see just about ALL Memphis area players dropped a star. Summer circuit has been tough on them. Hard to believe they were ALL overrated. We shall see.
One who did improve his stock, though, was 2019 Collum moved up to a 4-star.
I think most of the recruiting guys piggyback off of a couple of ratings and go with trendy rankings. I'm willing to bet that the entire slide is based on Team Penny getting clobbered by over 30 points and the Memphis guys not showing out well at the Peach Jam for the first time ever.
Another thing that will adversely affect Memphis kids when they play nationally recognized programs, is that there are so few good big men in Memphis, that this lack of an inside presence is going to make it tougher on the guards, when they go up against teams with talented bigs.
The kids have more than enough time to climb back up to where they belong. They might not all end up as top 100 recruits, but many of them are very solid.
(07-27-2017 12:28 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 04:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 08:06 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 01:17 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:27 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ]He went 32-4 in 2003 with his own players before getting knocked out of the tournament by a future NBA Hall of Famer.... But ok.....
How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
Everyone from Memphis in 2018 is a three star now. Everybody got dropped.
EASY(TJ Moss) was hit the hardest. I feel bad for the kid, going from 100+ to the 200s has to be tough on a young kid.
That AAU circuit is brutal.
When I was doing the recruiting thread update, I was amazed to see just about ALL Memphis area players dropped a star. Summer circuit has been tough on them. Hard to believe they were ALL overrated. We shall see.
One who did improve his stock, though, was 2019 Collum moved up to a 4-star.
I think most of the recruiting guys piggyback off of a couple of ratings and go with trendy rankings. I'm willing to bet that the entire slide is based on Team Penny getting clobbered by over 30 points and the Memphis guys not showing out well at the Peach Jam for the first time ever.
Another thing that will adversely affect Memphis kids when they play nationally recognized programs, is that there are so few good big men in Memphis, that this lack of an inside presence is going to make it tougher on the guards, when they go up against teams with talented bigs.
The kids have more than enough time to climb back up to where they belong. They might not all end up as top 100 recruits, but many of them are very solid.
I'd rather see a few 3 *s from out of town than 2 local 4 *'s. I feel like that's part of the reason Cal did well here. Almost all of the talent he recruited came from out of town. There's just too many people in the local talent's ears to buy into a coach and a new way of doing things. I enjoyed having the Lawson's and other local talent, but at some point in time it seems like it's more trouble than it's worth. Either way, we definitely need size, what happened at UCF last year was painful to watch!
Go Tigers!
(07-27-2017 12:28 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 04:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 08:06 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 01:17 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017 04:27 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ]He went 32-4 in 2003 with his own players before getting knocked out of the tournament by a future NBA Hall of Famer.... But ok.....
How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
Everyone from Memphis in 2018 is a three star now. Everybody got dropped.
EASY(TJ Moss) was hit the hardest. I feel bad for the kid, going from 100+ to the 200s has to be tough on a young kid.
That AAU circuit is brutal.
When I was doing the recruiting thread update, I was amazed to see just about ALL Memphis area players dropped a star. Summer circuit has been tough on them. Hard to believe they were ALL overrated. We shall see.
One who did improve his stock, though, was 2019 Collum moved up to a 4-star.
I think most of the recruiting guys piggyback off of a couple of ratings and go with trendy rankings. I'm willing to bet that the entire slide is based on Team Penny getting clobbered by over 30 points and the Memphis guys not showing out well at the Peach Jam for the first time ever.
Another thing that will adversely affect Memphis kids when they play nationally recognized programs, is that there are so few good big men in Memphis, that this lack of an inside presence is going to make it tougher on the guards, when they go up against teams with talented bigs.
The kids have more than enough time to climb back up to where they belong. They might not all end up as top 100 recruits, but many of them are very solid.
I don't often say this, but felt it worthy in this case...Agree on all points you make.
(07-27-2017 12:17 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-27-2017 12:28 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 04:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 08:06 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 01:17 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ]How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
Everyone from Memphis in 2018 is a three star now. Everybody got dropped.
EASY(TJ Moss) was hit the hardest. I feel bad for the kid, going from 100+ to the 200s has to be tough on a young kid.
That AAU circuit is brutal.
When I was doing the recruiting thread update, I was amazed to see just about ALL Memphis area players dropped a star. Summer circuit has been tough on them. Hard to believe they were ALL overrated. We shall see.
One who did improve his stock, though, was 2019 Collum moved up to a 4-star.
I think most of the recruiting guys piggyback off of a couple of ratings and go with trendy rankings. I'm willing to bet that the entire slide is based on Team Penny getting clobbered by over 30 points and the Memphis guys not showing out well at the Peach Jam for the first time ever.
Another thing that will adversely affect Memphis kids when they play nationally recognized programs, is that there are so few good big men in Memphis, that this lack of an inside presence is going to make it tougher on the guards, when they go up against teams with talented bigs.
The kids have more than enough time to climb back up to where they belong. They might not all end up as top 100 recruits, but many of them are very solid.
I don't often say this, but felt it worthy in this case...Agree on all points you make.
I don't care who I agree with or disagree with; which is I think is a good thing.
(07-27-2017 12:14 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-27-2017 12:28 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 04:31 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 08:06 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2017 01:17 AM)EricSigEpTNBeta183 Wrote: [ -> ]How many years ago are we talking? What is so hard to understand that he hasn't done ANYTHING in the past however many years. That is the reason why my optimism is at an all time low.
BTW Lomax is a 3* now?
Everyone from Memphis in 2018 is a three star now. Everybody got dropped.
EASY(TJ Moss) was hit the hardest. I feel bad for the kid, going from 100+ to the 200s has to be tough on a young kid.
That AAU circuit is brutal.
When I was doing the recruiting thread update, I was amazed to see just about ALL Memphis area players dropped a star. Summer circuit has been tough on them. Hard to believe they were ALL overrated. We shall see.
One who did improve his stock, though, was 2019 Collum moved up to a 4-star.
I think most of the recruiting guys piggyback off of a couple of ratings and go with trendy rankings. I'm willing to bet that the entire slide is based on Team Penny getting clobbered by over 30 points and the Memphis guys not showing out well at the Peach Jam for the first time ever.
Another thing that will adversely affect Memphis kids when they play nationally recognized programs, is that there are so few good big men in Memphis, that this lack of an inside presence is going to make it tougher on the guards, when they go up against teams with talented bigs.
The kids have more than enough time to climb back up to where they belong. They might not all end up as top 100 recruits, but many of them are very solid.
I'd rather see a few 3 *s from out of town than 2 local 4 *'s. I feel like that's part of the reason Cal did well here. Almost all of the talent he recruited came from out of town. There's just too many people in the local talent's ears to buy into a coach and a new way of doing things. I enjoyed having the Lawson's and other local talent, but at some point in time it seems like it's more trouble than it's worth. Either way, we definitely need size, what happened at UCF last year was painful to watch!
Go Tigers!
On a much much lesser scale, this is no different than Pastner allowing Niles to cuss at him, Sallie to screw around, show up late and loaf at practices, tolerating Willis Wilson and later tolerating Keelon.
Ideally, we would be recruiting top 100 talent from out of town and wouldn't have to worry about any of this, but that isn't possible right now. Tubby can't really turn down any decent player that wants to play at Memphis, unless they have a criminal record. He has painted himself into a corner an has no margin for error.
(07-24-2017 10:10 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ]I'll bump this.
It appears now that we are #46 in the nation on 247. I think they adjusted the composite to weight their own ratings higher. We are #42 only using the 247 ratings. It might have something to do with 247 buying Scout.
We are #1 in the AAC.
We would be #5 in the Big Ten, but #6 because Maryland should jump us after they sign the Ole Miss kid.
We would be #7 in the Big 12.
We would be #10 in the ACC.
We would be #10 in the SEC, but #9 when Ole Miss official drops after losing the kid to Maryland.
We would be #10 in the Pac-12.
We will be ahead of both our regional rivals in Ole Miss, and Tennessee. But trailing Arkansas.
I note this as well, since there has been some debate. There are officially now only 110 4* players for 2017. It appears closer to the end of a recruiting cycle they do adjust players down.
Well, I was wrong about the Ole Miss kid heading to Maryland. He's headed to Georgetown. So we would be #5 in the Big Ten.
BTW. I wasn't making a statement good or bad about where we would be in other conferences. I was providing a reference.
(07-28-2017 02:45 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-24-2017 10:10 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote: [ -> ]I'll bump this.
It appears now that we are #46 in the nation on 247. I think they adjusted the composite to weight their own ratings higher. We are #42 only using the 247 ratings. It might have something to do with 247 buying Scout.
We are #1 in the AAC.
We would be #5 in the Big Ten, but #6 because Maryland should jump us after they sign the Ole Miss kid.
We would be #7 in the Big 12.
We would be #10 in the ACC.
We would be #10 in the SEC, but #9 when Ole Miss official drops after losing the kid to Maryland.
We would be #10 in the Pac-12.
We will be ahead of both our regional rivals in Ole Miss, and Tennessee. But trailing Arkansas.
I note this as well, since there has been some debate. There are officially now only 110 4* players for 2017. It appears closer to the end of a recruiting cycle they do adjust players down.
Well, I was wrong about the Ole Miss kid heading to Maryland. He's headed to Georgetown. So we would be #5 in the Big Ten.
BTW. I wasn't making a statement good or bad about where we would be in other conferences. I was providing a reference.
Good, bad, or ugly - it's an interesting observation.