I agree. However, it's a local story.
Yep, they need to go to jail. Just because you are pumped on adrenaline doesnt give you the right.
So we're not waiting for the facts to come in before casting judgement? I thought taking sides this early was a bad thing?
(06-08-2017 06:45 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote: [ -> ]So we're not waiting for the facts to come in before casting judgement? I thought taking sides this early was a bad thing?
Guy crawls out of a burning car while on fire. He is on his hands and knees in pain. Officer runs up to him with his gun drawn and kicks him. Another officer comes and kicks him as well. Then drags him away. Later police admits that they got the wrong guy. Facts given. Judgment cast. Did you see the video?
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We need a "kicking man on fire" law.
Nevemind we have plenty. Put em in jail.
Hopefully their jobs are taken away and they are charged.
(06-08-2017 06:52 PM)pcm0103 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 06:45 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote: [ -> ]So we're not waiting for the facts to come in before casting judgement? I thought taking sides this early was a bad thing?
Guy crawls out of a burning car while on fire. He is on his hands and knees in pain. Officer runs up to him with his gun drawn and kicks him. Another officer comes and kicks him as well. Then drags him away. Later police admits that they got the wrong guy. Facts given. Judgment cast. Did you see the video?
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I'll keep this post in mind the next time you get on your high horse and post something similar to what I just did. Hypocrisy, thy name is pcm0103.
If it had been the actual suspect, people wouldn't have near the problem with it. And that's a problem.
This is not totally the officers fault. They are trained to concern themselves primarily with officer safety and that means snuffing out any possible resistance immediately. In this case, getting the kneeling suspect into a prone position so he could be controlled. You have to fix the training.
Its like training them to get behind a car without the occupant knowing....to not move.....and to consider the car going into reverse a deadly threat. That's just asking for a shooting incident.
My training would be...put a stinger spike strip behind the tires and a GPS locator on the trunk and then if the reverse lights come on....just step out of the way. They ain't going far.
(06-08-2017 08:00 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ]If it had been the actual suspect, people wouldn't have near the problem with it. And that's a problem.
This is not totally the officers fault. They are trained to concern themselves primarily with officer safety and that means snuffing out any possible resistance immediately. In this case, getting the kneeling suspect into a prone position so he could be controlled. You have to fix the training.
Its like training them to get behind a car without the occupant knowing....to not move.....and to consider the car going into reverse a deadly threat. That's just asking for a shooting incident.
My training would be...put a stinger spike strip behind the tires and a GPS locator on the trunk and then if the reverse lights come on....just step out of the way. They ain't going far.
So if the hypothetical suspect in question just happens to back the car up and the hypothetical officer just happens to get run over, then tough sh*t right?
(06-08-2017 08:00 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ]If it had been the actual suspect, people wouldn't have near the problem with it. And that's a problem.
This is not totally the officers fault. They are trained to concern themselves primarily with officer safety and that means snuffing out any possible resistance immediately. In this case, getting the kneeling suspect into a prone position so he could be controlled. You have to fix the training.
Its like training them to get behind a car without the occupant knowing....to not move.....and to consider the car going into reverse a deadly threat. That's just asking for a shooting incident.
My training would be...put a stinger spike strip behind the tires and a GPS locator on the trunk and then if the reverse lights come on....just step out of the way. They ain't going far.
Step aside folks.....our resident expert is here
![[Image: GT7DF2i.png]](http://i.imgur.com/GT7DF2i.png)
(06-08-2017 08:05 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 08:00 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ]If it had been the actual suspect, people wouldn't have near the problem with it. And that's a problem.
This is not totally the officers fault. They are trained to concern themselves primarily with officer safety and that means snuffing out any possible resistance immediately. In this case, getting the kneeling suspect into a prone position so he could be controlled. You have to fix the training.
Its like training them to get behind a car without the occupant knowing....to not move.....and to consider the car going into reverse a deadly threat. That's just asking for a shooting incident.
My training would be...put a stinger spike strip behind the tires and a GPS locator on the trunk and then if the reverse lights come on....just step out of the way. They ain't going far.
So if the hypothetical suspect in question just happens to back the car up and the hypothetical officer just happens to get run over, then tough sh*t right?
Whatever man. I don't know why I bother. Just keep training them the way you are training them and then when they make a mistake like the burning man you can watch the public demand their imprisonment and careers.
(06-08-2017 08:07 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 08:05 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 08:00 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ]If it had been the actual suspect, people wouldn't have near the problem with it. And that's a problem.
This is not totally the officers fault. They are trained to concern themselves primarily with officer safety and that means snuffing out any possible resistance immediately. In this case, getting the kneeling suspect into a prone position so he could be controlled. You have to fix the training.
Its like training them to get behind a car without the occupant knowing....to not move.....and to consider the car going into reverse a deadly threat. That's just asking for a shooting incident.
My training would be...put a stinger spike strip behind the tires and a GPS locator on the trunk and then if the reverse lights come on....just step out of the way. They ain't going far.
So if the hypothetical suspect in question just happens to back the car up and the hypothetical officer just happens to get run over, then tough sh*t right?
Whatever man. I don't know why I bother. Just keep training them the way you are training them and then when they make a mistake like the burning man you can watch the public demand their imprisonment and careers.
Don't get mad at me when I spot a gaping hole in your scenario so big you could drive a Cadillac through. Your views on LEO's are well known to this board.
(06-08-2017 08:06 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 08:00 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ]If it had been the actual suspect, people wouldn't have near the problem with it. And that's a problem.
This is not totally the officers fault. They are trained to concern themselves primarily with officer safety and that means snuffing out any possible resistance immediately. In this case, getting the kneeling suspect into a prone position so he could be controlled. You have to fix the training.
Its like training them to get behind a car without the occupant knowing....to not move.....and to consider the car going into reverse a deadly threat. That's just asking for a shooting incident.
My training would be...put a stinger spike strip behind the tires and a GPS locator on the trunk and then if the reverse lights come on....just step out of the way. They ain't going far.
Step aside folks.....our resident expert is here
Yes, nobody can question anything about any police related status quo. Because police status quo, is unquestioningly the best status quo.
In all seriousness though. It will change. Just like body cameras are happening.
Police can change it from within. Or they can have politicians change it for them. Those are ultimately the two choices.
(06-08-2017 08:13 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 08:07 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 08:05 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 08:00 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ]If it had been the actual suspect, people wouldn't have near the problem with it. And that's a problem.
This is not totally the officers fault. They are trained to concern themselves primarily with officer safety and that means snuffing out any possible resistance immediately. In this case, getting the kneeling suspect into a prone position so he could be controlled. You have to fix the training.
Its like training them to get behind a car without the occupant knowing....to not move.....and to consider the car going into reverse a deadly threat. That's just asking for a shooting incident.
My training would be...put a stinger spike strip behind the tires and a GPS locator on the trunk and then if the reverse lights come on....just step out of the way. They ain't going far.
So if the hypothetical suspect in question just happens to back the car up and the hypothetical officer just happens to get run over, then tough sh*t right?
Whatever man. I don't know why I bother. Just keep training them the way you are training them and then when they make a mistake like the burning man you can watch the public demand their imprisonment and careers.
Don't get mad at me when I spot a gaping hole in your scenario so big you could drive a Cadillac through. Your views on LEO's are well known to this board.
Oh yes. I must be anti-LEO because I don't support the status quo. I'm against my police relatives and friends. Bad old me.
(06-08-2017 07:59 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 06:52 PM)pcm0103 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 06:45 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote: [ -> ]So we're not waiting for the facts to come in before casting judgement? I thought taking sides this early was a bad thing?
Guy crawls out of a burning car while on fire. He is on his hands and knees in pain. Officer runs up to him with his gun drawn and kicks him. Another officer comes and kicks him as well. Then drags him away. Later police admits that they got the wrong guy. Facts given. Judgment cast. Did you see the video?
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I'll keep this post in mind the next time you get on your high horse and post something similar to what I just did. Hypocrisy, thy name is pcm0103.
Please do. Matter of fact, get a mod to pin it to the top of the forum.
(06-08-2017 08:17 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 08:06 PM)Kaplony Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2017 08:00 PM)ark30inf Wrote: [ -> ]If it had been the actual suspect, people wouldn't have near the problem with it. And that's a problem.
This is not totally the officers fault. They are trained to concern themselves primarily with officer safety and that means snuffing out any possible resistance immediately. In this case, getting the kneeling suspect into a prone position so he could be controlled. You have to fix the training.
Its like training them to get behind a car without the occupant knowing....to not move.....and to consider the car going into reverse a deadly threat. That's just asking for a shooting incident.
My training would be...put a stinger spike strip behind the tires and a GPS locator on the trunk and then if the reverse lights come on....just step out of the way. They ain't going far.
Step aside folks.....our resident expert is here
Yes, nobody can question anything about any police related status quo. Because police status quo, is unquestioningly the best status quo.
In all seriousness though. It will change. Just like body cameras are happening.
Police can change it from within. Or they can have politicians change it for them. Those are ultimately the two choices.
Oh it's changing. Primarily because of people like you who absolutely hate law enforcement the quality individuals we need in law enforcement aren't applying and the ones already employed are leaving in droves the first chance they get.
If we adopted your philosophy we would be like London, where the neutered unarmed "cops" ran away from attackers with knives.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/230584
Quote:Guardian reporter Lisa O’Carroll reported live from the scene of the attack as it occurred Saturday night. Witnesses told her that they had seen police fleeing the scene of the attack.
"Witnesses said they saw two men stabbing people outside the well-known Roast restaurant in Borough market. A chef from the nearby Fish restaurant said: “I saw two guys with big knives downstairs outside Roast. They were stabbing people. The police were running away, they were community police. They were normal officers, they were running away," O'Carroll wrote.
The witness told O'Carroll that armed police only arrived and opened fire on the terrorists after civilians began throwing chairs at them to defend themselves.
“The guy with the knife was killing two people. We were shouting ‘stop, stop’ and people threw chairs at them. Police came and shot straight away,” the witness said.
Journalist Onan Coca, the Editor-in-Chief at Liberty Alliance media group and the managing editor at Constitution.com, speculated that the police officers whom the witness described as "normal, community officers," fled because they were also unarmed.
Ordinary police officers in London do not carry fire-arms, and are instead armed only with batons and mace. The lightly armed police are forced to engage attackers at close range instead of being able to fire from a safe distance, putting their lives at greater risk during incidents such as Saturday's attack.
People want to put these guys in jail and take their careers.
But the primary goal is to remove the threat to themselves and fellow officers from a violent suspect. The fire on the guy is not primary at that point...officer safety is paramount at that point. Getting the violent suspect from his knees to prone, by force, so he could be controlled and remove the danger was paramount.
Really, the only thing these guys did that badly was misidentify the suspect in the midst of an inferno. Oops.