CSNbbs

Frank,

That sounds exactly like the same problem in California with the massive gap between the UC system and the CSU system.

Legislators and even parents (voters) seem to prefer an elite and extremely selective (meaning turns even their own kids away) flagship system, and then 3rd tier below it. There really is a large demand for that 2nd tier, but the 3rds and 1sts don't want it. So the kids who don;t get into the flagship, or who can't get the major they want (usually STEM related) leave the state. These are highly productive people in the future, and the statistics show that if they leave for college they are far more likely not to return when it comes to work or establishing new businesses.

(05-16-2017 03:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2017 01:30 PM)chess Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2017 10:59 AM)Stugray2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2017 09:49 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2017 09:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote: [ -> ]This is not a call up from D2. This is talk about why Chicago State will not be shut down because of what they are considered as a African American University. There will be a fight to shut the school down which is why many of you all do not understand the full scale of the politics behind these issues. Shutting a school down, and you will have an issue that blacks will think they are targeting them because of the schools they are mostly a majority of.

Amazing - this is actually a relatively clairvoyant point from you. Overall, I agree that there are political forces that are going to make shutting down Chicago State extremely difficult in practicality even though any person from the outside looking in would reasonably wonder how this school could ever be financially sustainable. I wouldn't necessarily attribute this to race, though. This is more about political power on the South Side of Chicago - there's no politician that EVER wants to see a public university shut down in his/her district on his/her watch. That's a guaranteed job killer for such politicians. They will fight tooth and nail against it getting shut down regardless of whether it makes any financial sense at all. (I'm not saying that this is a good thing.)

This is absolutely true and why I think the school will muddle through. It is clear Illinois should close at least two campuses, Chicago State and one of the directional schools (Eastern, Western, whatever). This could allow for significant savings in overhead and better fill seats in the remaining schools, which could be funded better by getting a larger slice of the money. In private business this sort of consolidation happens all the time. And even in private education you will see unsuccessful schools in decline throw in the towel, sell, or move to a better location (my dad helped Pepperdine move to Malibu where they are now thriving, as one example). But universities are much like military bases, it's hard as hell to close them because of the local politics. And in a state like Illinois it's much harder to have a bipartisan school closing commission to say which ones get closed, like we do with military bases (to overcome the local politics). The demographics in the Midwest especially scream for consolidation. Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois are the most overextended in having too many schools, and many areas that have largely depopulated.

It's ironic that in California and Texas the opposite problem exists, where we have too few seats, especially tier-1, so we export students at a massive rate (Stanford, Arizona, and some other schools are full of Texans, and every New England private school of high reputation has Californians as the 4th or 5th largest group of students behind the home state and the neighboring two or three states). In Illinois it's the 2nd and 3rd tier students whom you export, due to lack of confidence in the system.

It is not clear that Illinois should shut down campuses like Eastern Illinois or Western Illinois. Illinois residents are attending colleges outside the state. Illinois, the state, needs room for 50-60,000 more college students. Schools like NIU, NEIU, UIS, ISU, EIU, and WIU should be expanding.

Of course, there are other forces at work in Springfield.

You have Illinois State down twice. Where are both Southern Illinois and Illinois-Springfield at?

Illinois State is only listed once. UIS is Illinois-Springfield.

nfm

(05-16-2017 01:30 PM)chess Wrote: [ -> ]It is not clear that Illinois should shut down campuses like Eastern Illinois or Western Illinois. Illinois residents are attending colleges outside the state. Illinois, the state, needs room for 50-60,000 more college students. Schools like NIU, NEIU, UIS, ISU, EIU, and WIU should be expanding.

Of course, there are other forces at work in Springfield.

NIU is the one that should be expanding. I realize there's a school by that name but it's the one that has the potential to be the equivalent of "Illinois State." Along with UIUC, it's the school Chicago kids should dream of going to.

(05-17-2017 11:52 PM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-16-2017 01:30 PM)chess Wrote: [ -> ]It is not clear that Illinois should shut down campuses like Eastern Illinois or Western Illinois. Illinois residents are attending colleges outside the state. Illinois, the state, needs room for 50-60,000 more college students. Schools like NIU, NEIU, UIS, ISU, EIU, and WIU should be expanding.

Of course, there are other forces at work in Springfield.

NIU is the one that should be expanding. I realize there's a school by that name but it's the one that has the potential to be the equivalent of "Illinois State." Along with UIUC, it's the school Chicago kids should dream of going to.

UIC (University of Illinois-Chicago) is the school that is growing (29,000(?) students). NIU was at 25,000 before the state's finances really started impacting the universities. NIU is around 20,000 today.

The school that will be expanding is UIS (University of Illinois-Springfield). The school was a graduate school. It now is a four-year university.

NIU is located in Dekalb. When NIU was started, the school was supposed to be located in Rockford. Rockford turned down the university being located in the city. Rockford is struggling. A new university could be proposed and located in Rockford. The school could take over the entire downtown area and be named UIR (University of Illinois-Rockford).

So- Northeastern Illinois University (located in Chicago) should absorb Chicago State and a new research university should be created in Rockford (my proposal).

UIC will be the state research university in Chicago. NEIU will be the state university in Chicago. NIU will be the state university for northern Illinois and the surrounding Chicago suburbs. UIR (proposed by me) will be the new urban research university located in the city of Rockford.

NIU is in Chicago like UGA is in Atlanta.

Now if someone wants to create a Chicago campus for NIU then yeah that makes sense because they are 65 miles away.

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(05-19-2017 10:50 AM)panama Wrote: [ -> ]NIU is in Chicago like UGA is in Atlanta.

Now if someone wants to create a Chicago campus for NIU then yeah that makes sense because they are 65 miles away.

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It would be NIU's "southern campus"

NIU is 65 mile west of Chicago. But that really isn't the story. Dekalb is about 7 or 8 miles from the edge of the Chicago suburban sprawl. Yes, you get 5-10 minutes of open countryside in your freeway journey.

While Athens is a bit closer to Atlanta, there is considerably more countryside between them than between Dekalb and Chicago. My only question is, has Athens become predominantly a bedroom community for Atlanta like Dekalb is for Chicago? Or does it still have a true college town feel and as a minor city of it's own identity? I sort of think the latter. Atthens is more akin to Madison than to Dekalb (a smaller San Bernadino come sto mind)

This is sort of nitpicking argument you make, so I am drilling down a bit deeper to nitpick even more.

65 miles is 65 miles. They are nowhere near downtown Chicago

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(05-19-2017 10:50 AM)panama Wrote: [ -> ]NIU is in Chicago like UGA is in Atlanta.

Now if someone wants to create a Chicago campus for NIU then yeah that makes sense because they are 65 miles away.

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NIU has satellite campuses around Chicago. There are campuses in Naperville and Hoffman Estates for classes. http://www.niu.edu/visit/maps/regional/index.shtml

It should be noted that Chicago-proper has a reverse commute. Many people live in the city and commute to the suburbs for work. The Naperville and Hoffman Estates campuses are easy to ge to.

(05-19-2017 12:16 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: [ -> ]NIU is 65 mile west of Chicago. But that really isn't the story. Dekalb is about 7 or 8 miles from the edge of the Chicago suburban sprawl. Yes, you get 5-10 minutes of open countryside in your freeway journey.

While Athens is a bit closer to Atlanta, there is considerably more countryside between them than between Dekalb and Chicago. My only question is, has Athens become predominantly a bedroom community for Atlanta like Dekalb is for Chicago? Or does it still have a true college town feel and as a minor city of it's own identity? I sort of think the latter. Atthens is more akin to Madison than to Dekalb (a smaller San Bernadino come sto mind)

This is sort of nitpicking argument you make, so I am drilling down a bit deeper to nitpick even more.

Madison is the capitol of Wisconsin. Madison is a city.

Dekalb or Dekalb/Sycamore is/are a small city in the country and rural. NIU is like East Carolina (Greenville) or Virginia Tech (Blacksburg).

I live about 10 miles from the Hoffman Estates campus (near the Sears HQ) and 20 miles from the Dekalb campus. Yes, there are plenty of cornfields through the country to get the NIU.

nfm

(05-19-2017 12:39 PM)chess Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-19-2017 12:16 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: [ -> ]NIU is 65 mile west of Chicago. But that really isn't the story. Dekalb is about 7 or 8 miles from the edge of the Chicago suburban sprawl. Yes, you get 5-10 minutes of open countryside in your freeway journey.

While Athens is a bit closer to Atlanta, there is considerably more countryside between them than between Dekalb and Chicago. My only question is, has Athens become predominantly a bedroom community for Atlanta like Dekalb is for Chicago? Or does it still have a true college town feel and as a minor city of it's own identity? I sort of think the latter. Atthens is more akin to Madison than to Dekalb (a smaller San Bernadino come sto mind)

This is sort of nitpicking argument you make, so I am drilling down a bit deeper to nitpick even more.

Madison is the capitol of Wisconsin. Madison is a city.

Dekalb or Dekalb/Sycamore is/are a small city in the country and rural. NIU is like East Carolina (Greenville) or Virginia Tech (Blacksburg).

I live about 10 miles from the Hoffman Estates campus (near the Sears HQ) and 20 miles from the Dekalb campus. Yes, there are plenty of cornfields through the country to get the NIU.

Exactly

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If Chicago State gets a boost in in students enroll because they announced adding football? Then, it worked. Lets look at UTPB in Odessa Texas. Around 2010, they only had 3000 + students, and right now, over 6000+ after announcing adding football. They went up close to 3000 students and still growing. Lets see how Chicago State's enrollment in the fall.

Its Odessa, TX

Go Huskies

(05-16-2017 10:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]Kanye West went there and dropped out. That's reason enough to shut it down.

He dropped out because it sucks.

Maybe he dropped out because HE sucks!

(05-16-2017 10:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]Kanye West went there and dropped out. That's reason enough to shut it down.

Establishing a pecking order. Darwinism.

(05-20-2017 12:23 AM)Chuck_A Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe he dropped out because HE sucks!

He got an Incomplete Grade.

Maybe he will become Kesha West in the future?