CSNbbs

Looks like they have a 30,000 seat stadium that could be upgraded to maybe 40-45K relatively easily by adding some endzone seating.

Do we ever encourage/help them to get a program started? Similar to the way the Big East helped UConn go from FCS to FBS, or almost did with Villanova's program.

Maybe you let them percolate in FCS for 4-5 years as an independent, and when they are ready, move them up. You either stay at 13 for football or look for a 14th. This would also hedge against future defections. You would then put Wichita in west division and move Navy back to East division.

Thoughts?

The master plan involves tearing down half of that stadium for a new all-sports conditioning and academics building and converting the other half into a track and field stadium. So if we bring back football, it won't be at Cessna Stadium.

(04-07-2017 02:26 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like they have a 30,000 seat stadium that could be upgraded to maybe 40-45K relatively easily by adding some endzone seating.

Do we ever encourage/help them to get a program started? Similar to the way the Big East helped UConn go from FCS to FBS, or almost did with Villanova's program.

Maybe you let them percolate in FCS for 4-5 years as an independent, and when they are ready, move them up. You either stay at 13 for football or look for a 14th. This would also hedge against future defections. You would then put Wichita in west division and move Navy back to East division.

Thoughts?

According to wiki this is where they played. Photos for reference
Cessna Stadium

(04-07-2017 02:36 PM)fastbow Wrote: [ -> ]The master plan involves tearing down half of that stadium for a new all-sports conditioning and academics building and converting the other half into a track and field stadium. So if we bring back football, it won't be at Cessna Stadium.

OK, then so much for this thread. I thought I read recently where you guys were considering football and spending millions to upgrade Cessna stadium.

(04-07-2017 02:26 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like they have a 30,000 seat stadium that could be upgraded to maybe 40-45K relatively easily by adding some endzone seating.

Do we ever encourage/help them to get a program started? Similar to the way the Big East helped UConn go from FCS to FBS, or almost did with Villanova's program.

Maybe you let them percolate in FCS for 4-5 years as an independent, and when they are ready, move them up. You either stay at 13 for football or look for a 14th. This would also hedge against future defections. You would then put Wichita in west division and move Navy back to East division.

Thoughts?

This NEW dialogue originated on the Inside Tulsa Rivals Board

"rabidTU" fan posted this comment concerning the WSU/Tulsa relationship

The first thing this will do is give us a guaranteed home MBB game against WSU every year instead of every other year and because they travel so well, should sell out. That means more revenue and excitement for a conference rival game. It also does the same for all sports we play. The best thing is that WSU FANS TRAVEL SO WELL.

Since WSU doesn't have football, I'd be for a designated home FB game against Memphis, SMU, Tulane or Houston with maybe discount tickets and an area where they could tailgate. Give them the AAC football experience so to speak. Allow them to cheer for their conference brothers whichever one they choose.

Just a thought.

I THEN POSTED THIS:

Offering an olive branch 2 WSU fans
2 adapt another AAC f-ball team is
a great idea!

Having lived there 4 the past 3 yrs
I guarantee many WSU fans would "buy"
N2 this idea

The week of the game
Local media would PR the game
which would promote TU f-ball
2 the city of Wichita

Offer Shock Top Beer @ the game

Allow WSU fans 2 have tailgate parties
Allow their mascot, band, & cheer leaders
2 B included

Give the WSU Athletic Dept &/or Local Wichita Charities
a % of all f-ball tickets sold thru WSU outlets

TU players could wear a WSU sticker
on their helmet 4 that game.

Perhaps Coach Marshall or another WSU coach
Could give a pep talk 2 the team
B4 the game.

Strike while the "fire" is Hot
I think TU fans might B Shocked
how supportive many Shockers fans
might B w/ this type of proposal

Even one step further,
Since Tulsa's future Non Conf schedule
will most assuredly B dotted w/ a few FCS teams
What IF this joint WSU/TU f-ball promo worked well 'nuff
over the next few years,
that one yr, in the future
TU could open a season w/ a FCS
opponent @ Cessna Stadium in Wichita
 

That's a very interesting idea, but how many of their fans would "root" for Tulsa, when Tulsa is their major rival in basketball.

I maintain that the best possible future for the American is, now that any possibility of a western expansion is seemingly off the table...

AFA FB only + Oly sport to match - Colorado borders Kansas
Army FB only + Oly sport to match - New York borders Penn and Conn

Anything beyond that is expansion for expansion sake. BYU is showing no interest and is too vested in their schedule and tv contract to change course now.

(04-07-2017 02:36 PM)fastbow Wrote: [ -> ]The master plan involves tearing down half of that stadium for a new all-sports conditioning and academics building and converting the other half into a track and field stadium. So if we bring back football, it won't be at Cessna Stadium.

While this is true at one time, the master plan has been altered at times as things change. The study that was done focused on upgrading Cessna Stadium. That was all part of the $40M-50M startup costs. As were an indoor practice facility and office space and other upgrades (turf, scoreboard).

The Bardo said we will roll as we are for the time being but that football is not dead. He wants time to adjust to the new conference and make sure we have what we need for what we have before pursuing additional sports. Until a final decision is made, I doubt the stands at Cessna are torn down.

Yeah, why tear down a 30K stadium, if another one doesn't exist.

(04-07-2017 02:47 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote: [ -> ]That's a very interesting idea, but how many of their fans would "root" for Tulsa, when Tulsa is their major rival in basketball.

While we might not like TU Basketball, we harbor no allegiances for football, generally. Lots of KState, OU, and Anyone But KU fans in the Shocker fold for football. A concerted olive branch from TU that benefits WSU too would be much appreciated. Like what the Royals have done with their WSU Night.

WSU did an study to determine the feasibility of adding football. It is my opinion this was only done to determine whether joing the Mountain west was feasible. The MWC would have required football, and their basketball isn't very good, so that conference was not the main objective.

Now that it's possible to upgrade conferences without spending money and resources on football, I believe football is dead (again) at WSU. The fact that a study was made convinced some fans that football was inevitably going to be added. No amount of reasoning, logic, or discussion of the actual costs can dissuade them from their delusion.

(04-07-2017 03:04 PM)Aargh Wrote: [ -> ]WSU did an study to determine the feasibility of adding football. It is my opinion this was only done to determine whether joing the Mountain west was feasible. The MWC would have required football, and their basketball isn't very good, so that conference was not the main objective.

Now that it's possible to upgrade conferences without spending money and resources on football, I believe football is dead (again) at WSU. The fact that a study was made convinced some fans that football was inevitably going to be added. No amount of reasoning, logic, or discussion of the actual costs can dissuade them from their delusion.

And even though the numbers weren't anywhere close to as large as the anit-football crowd, like Aargh, have thrown out over the years, no amount of reasoning, logic, or discussion of the actual costs can dissuade them from their delusion.

From the start, The Bardo has said football goes beyond taking a step up in conference. It's not dead, as The Bardo said during the press conference, and will be addressed at a later date.

I say get your football ASAP, add on to the stadium and get on the field
I mean no need to start in FCS, just start right away in the AAC, becouse you will all ready be better than Tulane and Memphis, ECU and those wanna be Florida schools...
Just saying...

The old Guard Shox fans are pretty jaded about football. After the crash, outside of a couple of years, Football was never the same. Aargh being chief among them. Lots of rumors about perhaps building a new stadium on the Innovation campus to building one a few miles a way by a Cabelas. Hopefully, that one is dead because it has to be on campus, or what's the point.the initial study was to bring Cessna up to snuff, but I think most Shocker fans agree that there are just to many hard feelings there. Hopefully Football comes back and that The American will give us a chance to finally bring back football the right way.

I mean, I'd be happy to see them start up an FCS program and let that build in the background in case the conference loses or gains an odd number of members and you need one more. I wouldn't promise a spot after X number of years or anything (no reason to go to 13) but having the option is better than not having the option.

(04-07-2017 04:21 PM)JHS55 Wrote: [ -> ]I say get your football ASAP, add on to the stadium and get on the field
I mean no need to start in FCS, just start right away in the AAC, becouse you will all ready be better than Tulane and Memphis, ECU and those wanna be Florida schools...
Just saying...

But they might end up taking your spot in the B12.

Yep, I'm the bad guy on the FB front. I'm also the guy with the accounting degree and a background running financial projections for businesses.

The number I came up with was $100 mill. The proponents of FB point to the $40 mill figure that came out of the study. That was just the startup cost for FB

My numbers included the costs for Title IX scholarships, facilities, and coaching staffs. I also included upfront money to cover operating losses for the first 10 years. There is little hope of getting any TV revenue or covering costs in the first 10 years. I used coaching staffs and salaries comparable to lower-to mid-range BCS programs.

It's possible to get $40 - $100 mill pledged in Wichita. If Bardo says FB isn't dead, then he's made the contacts and they're on board with giving it a look. Bardo gets things done.

I love FB and was disappointed when WSU used to make corporate deals to sell out the stadium - and I couldn't get a ticket. Other times I had no problem picking out any of the 20,000+ unoccupied seats in the 30,000-seat stadium.

(04-07-2017 08:04 PM)Aargh Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, I'm the bad guy on the FB front. I'm also the guy with the accounting degree and a background running financial projections for businesses.

The number I came up with was $100 mill. The proponents of FB point to the $40 mill figure that came out of the study. That was just the startup cost for FB

My numbers included the costs for Title IX scholarships, facilities, and coaching staffs. I also included upfront money to cover operating losses for the first 10 years. There is little hope of getting any TV revenue or covering costs in the first 10 years. I used coaching staffs and salaries comparable to lower-to mid-range BCS programs.

It's possible to get $40 - $100 mill pledged in Wichita. If Bardo says FB isn't dead, then he's made the contacts and they're on board with giving it a look. Bardo gets things done.

I love FB and was disappointed when WSU used to make corporate deals to sell out the stadium - and I couldn't get a ticket. Other times I had no problem picking out any of the 20,000+ unoccupied seats in the 30,000-seat stadium.

Maybe the AAC can help with this using either a scheduling arrangement using a serious of FCS payday games or having WSU given a open invitation outright. The stadium is already essentially CUSA level, how much work would it take to get it going for the AAC? plus you have a regional rivalry with Tulsa and you can play home and homes against the lower end of the big 12 as well as the MWC.

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(04-07-2017 08:04 PM)Aargh Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, I'm the bad guy on the FB front. I'm also the guy with the accounting degree and a background running financial projections for businesses.

The number I came up with was $100 mill. The proponents of FB point to the $40 mill figure that came out of the study. That was just the startup cost for FB

My numbers included the costs for Title IX scholarships, facilities, and coaching staffs. I also included upfront money to cover operating losses for the first 10 years. There is little hope of getting any TV revenue or covering costs in the first 10 years. I used coaching staffs and salaries comparable to lower-to mid-range BCS programs.

It's possible to get $40 - $100 mill pledged in Wichita. If Bardo says FB isn't dead, then he's made the contacts and they're on board with giving it a look. Bardo gets things done.

I love FB and was disappointed when WSU used to make corporate deals to sell out the stadium - and I couldn't get a ticket. Other times I had no problem picking out any of the 20,000+ unoccupied seats in the 30,000-seat stadium.

Your not the bad guy but are definetly the anti football cheer leader. Out of honest curiosity, have you compared your numbers to what ODU and Charlotte have spent getting football going and what their deficit numbers are because of it?

(04-07-2017 08:27 PM)Shox Wrote: [ -> ]Your not the bad guy but are definetly the anti football cheer leader. Out of honest curiosity, have you compared your numbers to what ODU and Charlotte have spent getting football going and what their deficit numbers are because of it?

I've looked at them, but not in depth. They did it on the cheap and were reasonably successful. I believe both schools are in areas that are more interested in football. Football fans in the Wichita area are already fans of KSU, OU, or even KU.

My calculations were based on an assumption that if WSU wasn't putting a successful team on the field that could compete with name brand opponents, that there wouldn't be a lot of butts in seats. I put in the funds for a coaching staff and a recruiting budget that could compete with the BCS schools surrounding WSU.

I pretty much used the model that worked for basketball and applied it to football. ODU and Charlotte did it for way less expense than I projected. Maybe their formula would work in Wichita. My experience with the utter lack of interest the city showed for WSU football in the past led me to go in a different direction.

My approach is that if you're going to do it - go for it - do it right - and here's what it takes to do that. I used an assumption that led to TV revenues and bowl game revenues in a 10-year window. Support the program until it's self-sustaining, which means there is no compromise in the support of basketball.